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Sorry, I should have been more specific I was talking about the Battlefortress when it came to BS4 and weapon options.

If the Mega Dread can take a Supa Skorcha that would be amazing, although I wasn't really worried about it because I figured it would be decent with multiple claws/saws.

I'm expecting the points will go up on the Supa Skorcha, as that thing is bananas.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Sorry, I should have been more specific I was talking about the Battlefortress when it came to BS4 and weapon options.

If the Mega Dread can take a Supa Skorcha that would be amazing, although I wasn't really worried about it because I figured it would be decent with multiple claws/saws.

I'm expecting the points will go up on the Supa Skorcha, as that thing is bananas.

the supa skorcha is our best anti flyer wpn. I don't think it's badly costed I just think it's great for orks because bs5 sucks so bad this edition with all the -1 to hits.

I'd add a second banner nob so you are guaranteed his buff on all mobs. In addition, maybe cut some boyz to field a third Dakkajet for an additional CP.

On the issue of SemperMortis: Can't we all just ignore him? He adds nothing new to the tactics discussion, he just keeps derailing the thread with his claims about how orks will be bottom tier for all eternity without anything to back that up. He will commit any logical fallacy to still claim to be right, including denying the content of his own posts. There is really no point in answering to any of his posts that do not revolve around tactics.
And for the record: He got flakk for calling orks doomed before he had even read the rules or played a single game, idiotic interpretations of rules and for claiming that anyone who disagreed with him was on GW's payroll.

If you are going to lie about me at least make it believable.

I do add to the tactics discussion, i just don't agree with you. And so far those logical fallacies have proven to be spot on for the most part. The vast majority of our codex is crap, and running around saying otherwise doesn't change that fact. And for the Record I got flakk for reading the leaks of several different factions and ours and then comparing them and came to the conclusion that yet again orkz were under powered, and going by our W/L ratio in the other section we are second to last behind Tau who got their precious Riptides/stormsurges hit with the Nerf hammer hard. I did make a joke about Reese being on GWs payroll because I couldn't believe how ridiculous his statements were in regards to the Stompa being good, or are you going to defend Reese's prediction on the stompa again?


And on the subject of your list "More Dakka" I would ditch the Dakkajets entirely and field more kommandos OR Conversely ditch the Kommandos entirely. 1 unit of Kommandos with a marginal save (unless in cover) isn't that frightening nor is it much of a distraction since a SM Tac squad can force a morale fail pretty easy. When I field Kommandos I usually do so in sets of 3 (Vanguard detachment i think?) anyway, the point is if you have MSU Kommandos they are very scary because if they do get into CC with those squishy units they can shut down his entire backfield. The best part is they are really cheap and do draw fire like crazy which gives your boyz a turn or possibly 2 to get up the board as fast as possible. Da Jump a unit of boyz as well to really up the ante!

Kommandos are good no doubt good distraction units and can be a problem in numbers. I think the dakka jet is very good 148 points for 18 str 6 and hitting on 4s is good yes the storm Raven is better but you almost get 2 dakka jets for same price that's a lot of anti inf dakka we can use.
It's not a game where we should be comparing one unit to another it's how the hole army you field works if they spam flyers we may struggle to take them out that's fine kill everything else then they will struggle with objectives.
Also on a side note vs flyers we have tractor cannons

Traktor kannons are like almost good until you realize they don't ignore hard to hit or gain +1 to hit flyers. A single shot bs 5+ weapon that costs 40pts and does less damage to non flyers.

A lot of ork shooting problems could be solved w fixed shots/wounds. Killkannons are good at 6 shots (not d6), many of the mek guns/big guns could also be fixed w fix gaks or fixed wounds.

If mek guns didn't cost 45$ a piece I would filed bubblechukkas all day long

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
If mek guns didn't cost 45$ a piece I would filed bubblechukkas all day long

You can always buy 2-3 boxes and then scratch build the rest. Any ork player should have plenty of stuff to do that.
Grot gunners can easily be build using the grot box or you use grot gunners from forge world / other sellers.

gungo wrote:
Traktor kannons are like almost good until you realize they don't ignore hard to hit or gain +1 to hit flyers. A single shot bs 5+ weapon that costs 40pts and does less damage to non flyers.

A lot of ork shooting problems could be solved w fixed shots/wounds. Killkannons are good at 6 shots (not d6), many of the mek guns/big guns could also be fixed w fix gaks or fixed wounds.

I just don't see what's to like about the Traktor Kannon at all. I've changed out 6 of my KMK's for Smasha Guns and changed out a few more and my Traktor knannons for Bubble Chukkas. (2 KMK's left now.)
I really want more Kannons now 3 just isn't enough. D6 damage is where it's at.

Was anyone else a bit disconcerted to see Dan Harden's Orks get absolutely slapped around against Tau in this months White Dwarf?

The board was pretty light on scenery, but he never looked like he could have threated the massive mecha tengu's that the Tau player brought and most his force evaporated to the attentions of Tau shooting.
I don't really see how to combat Tau, their high strength guns are great at killing vehicles and they are highly manouvereable so hordes of boys struggle to pin them down in combat...

I think Tau is a bad matchup for Orks with the current Meta, they excel at the strategy that's good against Orks ATM.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I think Tau is a bad matchup for Orks with the current Meta, they excel at the strategy that's good against Orks ATM.

Tau have always been the hard counter to Orkz. There is nothing in our codex that Tau can't handle with their common units. The funniest thing about Tau to me is that their basic troops (Firewarriors) are REALLY GOOD! but they don't get any use because you need to build a list around them and Tau's other units are even better (Or they were).

Light on scenery is putting it kindly, the board was a straight shooting gallery.

I thought tractor kannon was + 1 to hit flyers but it is not in which case the kannon is way better could get 8 for 1 stormraven not the best out there but they wouldn't want to ignore it for to long, 2-3 hits 1-2 wounds 5+ save likely just 1 d6 damage but hey as I say they have to deal with it.

Failing that super scorchas as someone said before burn baby burn

A kannon will do half a wound of damage to a stormraven per turn. In order to kill one stormraven over two turns you will need some 15 kannonz. You will need more if he decides to shoot back. Tankbustas are slightly more pointefficient, but also harder to get into position. Weirdboyz are even more effective, but are even harder to get into firing position. Skorchas and superskorchas are not good at wounding T7.

It doesn't matter if the str6 super skorcha isn't great at wounding t7+.
It's the fact is does 4-12 automatic hits vs flyers with -2ap at 24in range.
It's an average of 8 automatic hits and ~3 wounds vs t7 for a weapon that costs 28pts.

It's awesome for overwatch and even better vs t6 or less. Sadly it's only on the big trakk right now but I'm hopeful on the mega dread. Give that thing a mega charga and the range on the super skorcha is awesome. If I can turn both arms of a mega dread to supa skorcha I would. I'd take 5-6 wounds to a flyer. And good luck to anyone trying to assault the mega dread with 8-24 automatic hits.

Had 3 battles today and agree with most of this thread lol.

Boyz are great.
Stormboyz are great.
Weirdboyz are great.
Deffkoptas are okay.
Really like the Big Mek on bike with KFF too.

Also anyone got advice on building a walker-heavy Kan Wall style list in 8th?

3 big Meks kff
Each with 2x3 kans with bs and 4 kans 3 bs 1 rl

That's a big Mek shielding 10 Kansas each 81 str 5 shots 3 str 8

30 Kans I'd go with that lol

 Sledgio wrote:
Had 3 battles today and agree with most of this thread lol.

Boyz are great.
Stormboyz are great.
Weirdboyz are great.
Deffkoptas are okay.
Really like the Big Mek on bike with KFF too.

Also anyone got advice on building a walker-heavy Kan Wall style list in 8th?

I got schooled this weekend, don't let a quad-Las anything rerolling one's fire at a battlewagon turn one. In malestrom, don't be afraid to spend the CP on the reroll if you draw a bad objective. I had to move my fire support turn one to get a free VP, it led to terrible shooting. My Lootas and SAG mek performed poorly and were dead and tied into combat because I let one bad malestrom objective push me into bad decisions. Ghaz'khul shined brightly, smashing many choppy marines and a vehicle. With what points I sacrificed on transports that crumpled up easily with no save my boyz were outnumbered by a better armored, equally choppy, Black Templar foe. I conceded by turn four, easily may have been tabled if the marines would fall back and let the quad las metal box shoot Ghaz. I might do a mechanized Ork redo at more points and with a KFF Biker BM.

We played another game with me choosing a horde list. It was a bit beardy of me because I knew he had a lot of Las assets, but my friend likes seeing what more competitive orkstuff might look like. So I pulled out 90 boyz, 30 with shootas, a dusty weirdboy, Ghaz'khull, two banner nobz, a few Stormboyz, Snikrot, and the Mad Dok. We drew the relic, my opponent started his snipers on the relic and took off with it, spreading the field to deny a decent Da Jump and leaving vehicles for me to climb over in hopes of running down the relic. The one thing going for me by the bottom of turn one was that I had lots of assaultable targets. I moved and advanced everything except shootaboyz, I jumped them into a back corner with Snikrot in shooting range of snipers and some choppy marines with meatshields. I shot lots of marines it did well. In the assault phase stormboyz and ghaz came up with with a rhino kill, the boyz failed assaults. Turn two my opponent used his transports to tie up my boyz so he could clear out and tie up stuff for him to assault. With Ghaz'khull's buff and the banner we flipped over all the transports except the one in the back on the shoota boyz. At this time my opponent wanted to call it on time and conceding that it seems I would win.

Ork boyz with buffs seem amazing, jumping shoota boyz worked, Ghaz continues to be great, Stormboyz do a good job, banner nobz are great, da jump worked fine.

Dakkajet seemed out of place, no really good targets

Battlewagonz need a KFF (don't be dumb like me) for Lascannons and Ard Case to keep massed strength four from wounding on 5's

I take back what I said about powerklaws, it was really nice for T7 vehicles to have almost no save and maybe it is worth 14 more points, when buffed with banner and Ghaz it seems like a no brainer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Being an ork that suddenly pulls out two to five weirdboyz this Ed gives me that 'I'm that guy' feeling. I feel like it gets a nerf at the next nerfdate.

Here's the thing w wagons. A lot of ork lists that is the only vehicle target and it will explode vs all the anti tank shooting. Best ork tactic is just to give them no vehicles. Shooting lascannons melta or plasma at orks are a waste. The only real save vs shooting orks have is a kff 5++.

Rismo, I never feel like TFG when I play the best units in the ork codex because realistically that is the only way to play them and have a chance. If you want to bring a ton of Weirdboyz go for it.

 Rismonite wrote:
Turn two my opponent used his transports to tie up my boyz so he could clear out and tie up stuff for him to assault. With Ghaz'khull's buff and the banner we flipped over all the transports except the one in the back on the shoota boyz.

Keep in mind that Ghaz's buff only works on the charge. It's still great. And Ghaz is well worth his point tag. In fact, there's almost no reason to take a regular megaboss if you can get Ghaz. At least not before the clan taktix arrive (if we ever get those).

As for wierdboyz, they generally have ~3 psy phases before they start exploding. Still good for the utility but not broken good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rismonite wrote:

Being an ork that suddenly pulls out two to five weirdboyz this Ed gives me that 'I'm that guy' feeling. I feel like it gets a nerf at the next nerfdate.

That might be good for the overall meta health. Cause 'sometimes' spamming laz is just not enough to win games.

I feel that mech is only viable if you bring at least 4 wagons or 7-8 trukks in a 2000 point list. Or a combination. A single transport can only survive when behind blocking terrain. Hardtop on a wagon really helps, but not against lascannons. But T8 still helps against bolters, autocannons and plasma. A KFF biker is also a good investment.

In 7-th i utilised a strategy of extra trukks rolling along the main ones. As i played bully boyz, transport problems were a big deal for units of 5 manz. So, what i did was fielding either empty trukks along the manz trukks or trukks with min cheap units - like 10 naked boyz or 5 tankbustas. So that when MANz trukks got wrecked, thy could always hop inside the trukks that were nearby. Or if the enemy wanted to stop the Meganobz, he had to waste firepower on extra trukks either.
Not sure it's gona be useful for mech lists in 8-th but theoretically you could buy an extra trukk for the points of a kff mek that could just ride along your important squads to pick them up. But it at least provides some freedom of movement compared to sticking vehicles close to kff meks.

 koooaei wrote:
In 7-th i utilised a strategy of extra trukks rolling along the main ones. As i played bully boyz, transport problems were a big deal for units of 5 manz. So, what i did was fielding either empty trukks along the manz trukks or trukks with min cheap units - like 10 naked boyz or 5 tankbustas. So that when MANz trukks got wrecked, thy could always hop inside the trukks that were nearby. Or if the enemy wanted to stop the Meganobz, he had to waste firepower on extra trukks either.
Not sure it's gona be useful for mech lists in 8-th but theoretically you could buy an extra trukk for the points of a kff mek that could just ride along your important squads to pick them up. But it at least provides some freedom of movement compared to sticking vehicles close to kff meks.

I think if your going mech this season you should simply be looking at the FW index stuff. You can basically drop the KFF on a meka; gives you a larger area as a bonus. Then you can stack grot tank/mega tank if you want shot output (they are surprisingly cheap when given BS or KMK's; secondly the megatank has a whole load of arsenal such as the boomcanisters that it gets for like 2 pts or something, they are single model too, so suffer no LD issues). If your desperate to have boyz in the lists, go with bigtrakks, stick supa-skorchas on em, stick a kommando unit inside, gives you the additional burna shots on overwatch. Or if it takes your fancy, Nobs with kombi skorchas. They cost about 2-3x a burna boy, but you get the skorcha and the CC capabilities. Stick Ghazz in one of them with a banner nob and a couple weirdboyz and when your finished pumping out all your automatic hitting shots you just unload and chop up everything left

A supa-skorcha big trakk comes in around 180-210 depending on all the gadgets you give it, Take those instead of trukks. As they can still transport your smaller units around late game, and they dish out da pain as they do.

180 pts is a stiff price to pay even for such a decent unit as a skorcha trakk. It's also fw which is not always approved of.

Anywayz, what do you guyz think about ork planes? I've got one and it can theoretically help a footslogging horde with clearing out bauble wraps and puting a couple wounds on some annoying ranged support stuff we're gona face.

Have just been looking at the planes actually! For the price of 2 deffkoptas they don't seem too bad to me. Has anyone used them and found which is best? I quite like the look of the burna bomber and the dakkajet tbh.

The plane's durability is what's bothering me. If currently my footslogging list has no good targets for multi-wound weapons as i'm planning to get rid of deffkoptas in favor of stormboyz, the plane's going to be a prime target for all the missiles and lazers the opponent has. And i can't reserve a plane.

That's bothering me with orks. Our stuff really promotes spamming of same-type units. I want to field a horde but i also want a couple trukks, koptas and probably a plane that i've only fielded a couple times in fun games of 7-th. But if i want to go competitive, those tougher more expensive targets seem to not be worth it. Especially with how cover works (doesn't) now. As i can't even mitigate incoming damage. It's close to impossible to hide 100% of the model from all those hostile antennas and even if you get cover, it's ignored with high ap weapons.

 koooaei wrote:
The plane's durability is what's bothering me. If currently my footslogging list has no good targets for multi-wound weapons as i'm planning to get rid of deffkoptas in favor of stormboyz, the plane's going to be a prime target for all the missiles and lazers the opponent has. And i can't reserve a plane.

That's bothering me with orks. Our stuff really promotes spamming of same-type units. I want to field a horde but i also want a couple trukks, koptas and probably a plane that i've only fielded a couple times in fun games of 7-th. But if i want to go competitive, those tougher more expensive targets seem to not be worth it. Especially with how cover works (doesn't) now. As i can't even mitigate incoming damage. It's close to impossible to hide 100% of the model from all those hostile antennas and even if you get cover, it's ignored with high ap weapons.

The question is; How competitive? Because if the ONLY thing your playing against is GT lists with whatever flavor spam it is, then yeh maybe taking those models isn't a great idea. But I imagine running a horde all day every day is just a bit dull. Surely not every game you play has to be the most competitive list we can dish out?

 koooaei wrote:
The plane's durability is what's bothering me. If currently my footslogging list has no good targets for multi-wound weapons as i'm planning to get rid of deffkoptas in favor of stormboyz, the plane's going to be a prime target for all the missiles and lazers the opponent has. And i can't reserve a plane.

That's bothering me with orks. Our stuff really promotes spamming of same-type units. I want to field a horde but i also want a couple trukks, koptas and probably a plane that i've only fielded a couple times in fun games of 7-th. But if i want to go competitive, those tougher more expensive targets seem to not be worth it. Especially with how cover works (doesn't) now. As i can't even mitigate incoming damage. It's close to impossible to hide 100% of the model from all those hostile antennas and even if you get cover, it's ignored with high ap weapons.

I feel like to some extent this is true. I think you can run a balanced list, but it would be closer to 50-50 infantry armor, more extreme on either end and you provide obvious targets for specific shooting types.

Solar Shock wrote:

The question is; How competitive? Because if the ONLY thing your playing against is GT lists with whatever flavor spam it is, then yeh maybe taking those models isn't a great idea. But I imagine running a horde all day every day is just a bit dull. Surely not every game you play has to be the most competitive list we can dish out?

Yeah that's true. I actually field "whatever gets out of my bag first" or "what i really want to test out" in casual games and we change the lists on the go so that it's easier to have a good time for both players. Like the last time i ditched a squad of boyz in favor of a couple koptas cause my opponent has brought a lazer-shooting speder necron thingy. It'd be a waste against just boyz. But it felt ok killing a kopta per turn. So, everyone was happy.

Competitive games are another thing however. It's yet to be seen if it's possible to mix up different types of units as the meta hasn't really developed yet. And we're yet to recieve codexes and unit repricings. I remember a famous 7-th greentide list that included tankbustas in gun wagons and they were doing pretty good.