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 koooaei wrote:
It's rare to see squads larger than 5.

Holy crap, what kind of a meta are you playing in? MSU spam marines only?

SemperMortis wrote:
Why do you need to deal with a Landraider? well for starters the Crusader variants are now pretty damn disgusting with dakka. 12 shots from the Assault Cannon and 24 shots from the Hurricane Bolters. They actually put out more dakka then we do with our vehicles :(

Sure, but that all turns off as soon as anything is within 1". Unlike a knight, it cannot disengage and shoot, and it can't move over your troops. Even if you have a whole unit of boyz going after it just to prevent it from shooting, you're still good in terms of point efficiency.

Also, do Nobz in boyz units not matter anymore for morale issues? I was so sure they gave some kind of benefit but then when i looked during my games it isn't there. When I am losing 15boyz in a shooting phase having leadership 15 doesn't help. And by turn 3 I wasnt anywhere near my other drastically undermanned Boyz units.

At that point you should just auto-pass moral for 2 CP. That way you are denying your opponent ~15 kills and you keep a fully functional unit on the board that can still kill stuff, take objectives and whatnot. I doubt you can get anything better by taking two rerolls at some later point.
You also have the element of surprise - if your opponent didn't account for the stratagem, he might have left 10-15 boyz in a place where he really doesn't want them. If he does remember the possibility of auto-passing he will kill them to the last ork when needed and waste shooting that would have otherwise killed orks elsewhere, with no bonus casualties from moral. You might even be able to bait him into doing that, by casually pointing out that you are not worried about moral for the unit he just took down to 10 as you can just auto-pass it.
Last, but not least, always keep warbosses or Thrakka near your large mobs.

Pretty competitive one. Anywayz, 10+ squads are generally composed of things that are more effectively dealt with using shootas rather than burna/blitza bombs.
See, ideally you want to kill the most valuable stuff with those mortal wound bombs cause you're paying quite a lot for them. And the most valuable stuff tends to be running in squads of 5 or fewer.
Like expensive ranged support squads of almost all armies - devastators, havoks, reapers, various tau shooty suits. Or Tough mellee units with good saves - terminators, berserkers.

 koooaei wrote:
Pretty competitive one. Anywayz, 10+ squads are generally composed of things that are more effectively dealt with using shootas rather than burna/blitza bombs.
See, ideally you want to kill the most valuable stuff with those mortal wound bombs cause you're paying quite a lot for them. And the most valuable stuff tends to be running in squads of 5 or fewer.
Like expensive ranged support squads of almost all armies - devastators, havoks, reapers, various tau shooty suits. Or Tough mellee units with good saves - terminators, berserkers.

Fair points.

I tired out the wazbom jet in a game the other day. Damn that thing is a waste of points. It's BS makes hitting anything nearly impossible and just doesn't throw down enough fire power. I'll definitely be switching it out for something else!

Thing is what. As it stands my list is:

warboos w/klaw on bike
painboy w/klaw on bike
5 nob bikers - nig choppa
7 warbikers (Klaw on nob)
3 x 12 ork boy units all in trukks with big shoota and wrecking ball
gorkanaut
5 nob/wamm runt - big choppas (in Gorka)
10 storm boyz
Wazbom...

Now with the wazbom coming out, what do I spent the near 160 points on? Psyker? Big Mek w/shokk gun on bike? Mek gunz?

You can probably get bigchoppas for boy squad leaders and a couple more bikers so that you could field 2*5 or even better 3*3 squads instead of 1*7. So that you could at least hide those bigchoppa nobz in warbiker squads instead of sticking them out in a separate overpriced nob biker squad. to be honest, that'd be the first thing i'd do after swapping a painboy and blastajet.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Have you (or anyone else) tried 15 nobs and 15 runts? would that be more effective than 29 boyz and 1 nob? The boyz are much cheaper.

Not quite, the max squad size is 10 Nobz and 10 runtz. I run them with 5 Killsaws, 5 big Choppas, and 10 shootas. With KFF, Painboy, and 30 Warpath Boyz teleporting at the enemy every turn, they do an alright job of surviving. Once you can get them the banner buff onto an armored target, give them Warpath and send them in.

Including shooting, this squad just barely one rounds a knight on average dice using Warpath and Banner completely discounting the grots on the assumption they die somewhere on the way in, like with overwatch. It has a lot of vulnerabilities, but the offense versus armor just can't be replicated anywhere else in Orks that isn't a complete liability.

One trick with them is to make a trail of runtz back to the banner buff after using Warpath and Da Jump. Feels good killing an Imperial Knight on the bottom of 1 if you're willing to take the risk.

 Jidmah wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Why do you need to deal with a Landraider? well for starters the Crusader variants are now pretty damn disgusting with dakka. 12 shots from the Assault Cannon and 24 shots from the Hurricane Bolters. They actually put out more dakka then we do with our vehicles :(

Sure, but that all turns off as soon as anything is within 1". Unlike a knight, it cannot disengage and shoot, and it can't move over your troops. Even if you have a whole unit of boyz going after it just to prevent it from shooting, you're still good in terms of point efficiency.

Also, do Nobz in boyz units not matter anymore for morale issues? I was so sure they gave some kind of benefit but then when i looked during my games it isn't there. When I am losing 15boyz in a shooting phase having leadership 15 doesn't help. And by turn 3 I wasnt anywhere near my other drastically undermanned Boyz units.

At that point you should just auto-pass moral for 2 CP. That way you are denying your opponent ~15 kills and you keep a fully functional unit on the board that can still kill stuff, take objectives and whatnot. I doubt you can get anything better by taking two rerolls at some later point.
You also have the element of surprise - if your opponent didn't account for the stratagem, he might have left 10-15 boyz in a place where he really doesn't want them. If he does remember the possibility of auto-passing he will kill them to the last ork when needed and waste shooting that would have otherwise killed orks elsewhere, with no bonus casualties from moral. You might even be able to bait him into doing that, by casually pointing out that you are not worried about moral for the unit he just took down to 10 as you can just auto-pass it.
Last, but not least, always keep warbosses or Thrakka near your large mobs.

And when the Land Raider falls back and the enemy focus fires everything at that unit of boyz you are then left with a Land Raider unopposed in the open that will be decimating you next turn. Trust me I did my best to keep it from disengaging but only managed to trap it after 2 full turns and having had to walk up the table for 2 turns. By that point I was running out of tools to use. Honestly, the game would have been even more one sided if it hadn't been for my amazingly lucky assault roll. I targeted his Rhino which he accidentally left to close to my boyz (11 inches) and it was only 4inches away from his Land Raider so I charged it and managed to roll 11inches AND using my pile in moves I was able to get into B2B with the Land Raider AND one of his Razorbacks, the Razorback and Land Raider Ran away, the Rhino kept in the fight and died but by that point his land raider and Razorback were able to disengage, drop off their troops and blow my boyz to hell. As it stands we just don't have the tools to deal with these things and it becomes more readily apparent every game I play. Ghaz is our go to for anti-vehicle in a foot slogging list because Tankbustas require a Trukk/Wagon and if you bring one you give your opponent 1-2 easy targets to kill with his anti-tank weapons. Basically, our army lacks synergy, lacks worthwhile buffs (Sorry but it is very clear to me that a painboy isn't worth the points invested in it, nor is a KFF when its protecting Boyz) and completely lacks anti-armor.

As far as the 2CP to auto-pass morale, by that point in the game I had used all available CP to try and GET INTO combat and didn't have enough left to do that.

SemperMortis wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
What does everyone think of the Ork flyers in the new edition?

I'll be picking up another Eldar flyer since they're so food these days, and figured for an extra bit of cash I may as well pick up the Stormcloud game with the Ork flyer in as well. I understand they may not be the best models to use competitively, but I love the models and would definitely want to use them at some point in a semi-competitive pick up game. Already got a Dakkajet, but what should I build my new one as? To me the two Bommer variants look the best, with maybe the Blitza edging out the Burna since we have so much anti-infantry and burny goodness in the army already.

My honest opinion? Save your money. The Dakkajet is the only "Decent" variant right now and even that isn't particularly good. If you are really hell bent on getting one though I would probably go with the Blitza or another Dakkajet over the Burna or the Wazbom variant.

Rismonite wrote:I have a couple planes, I am never pleased by their performance. I think the dakkajet isn't terrible in the right list. I don't think the burna bomma is awful in a vehicle or walker list. Burna bomma explodes on a 4+, instead of 6. If you can get it to explode near enemies it's 3 mortal wounds to every unit in six inches. I wouldn't want it to blow up near my characters, the enemy wouldn't either.

Edit; It has potential, if it can shoot anything before it dies then blows up on more then just light infantry it might just pay itself off. The explosion is worth a CP reroll if you have the right enemies nearby.

Hmm... Well, if I can find a Hemlock going cheap on eBay I'll pick that up instead, but if not I feel I may as well for the extra ~£12 or whatever. Didn't realise the burna exploded on a 4, and didn't think of using a command re-roll to get the explosion if I want it or stop it if I don't. That's something I feel a lot of people won't realise as well

LiMunPai wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Have you (or anyone else) tried 15 nobs and 15 runts? would that be more effective than 29 boyz and 1 nob? The boyz are much cheaper.

Not quite, the max squad size is 10 Nobz and 10 runtz. I run them with 5 Killsaws, 5 big Choppas, and 10 shootas. With KFF, Painboy, and 30 Warpath Boyz teleporting at the enemy every turn, they do an alright job of surviving. Once you can get them the banner buff onto an armored target, give them Warpath and send them in.

Including shooting, this squad just barely one rounds a knight on average dice using Warpath and Banner completely discounting the grots on the assumption they die somewhere on the way in, like with overwatch. It has a lot of vulnerabilities, but the offense versus armor just can't be replicated anywhere else in Orks that isn't a complete liability.

One trick with them is to make a trail of runtz back to the banner buff after using Warpath and Da Jump. Feels good killing an Imperial Knight on the bottom of 1 if you're willing to take the risk.

Interesting you mention running the painboy with the Nobz... I've been planning on giving them cyborg bodies instead and sending them off on their own (maybe with a banner) and keeping my painboys closer to my boyz. I know it's best to keep everything together but in practice that often doesn't happen, with the opponent having important units away from their main battleline, or there being an objective that needs grabbing. I do only run units of 5 to be fair (and so the cyborg upgrade is only 25pts) but I feel it's worth it for the extra independence.

Nice call on using ammo runts to get the unit in range of buffs though

Also, a bit of a general rules question: A lot of people have been mentioning using CP re-rolls for one thing or another, or using them to negate morale tests. Do these stratagems (is that the name?) need to be included with your army list (i.e. if you include 3 re-rolls you can't change your mind mid-battle and auto-pass a Morale check), or can you just choose to use them on the fly, providing you have enough CP, of course?

You know it would be fluffy and cool if not very competitive if we could give every nob in a nob unit cybork bodies however it only allows 1 in 5 to have it. Which is sad because there are awsome 3rd party models to add cybork legs and arms to ork boys.

 The Shadow wrote:

Interesting you mention running the painboy with the Nobz... I've been planning on giving them cyborg bodies instead and sending them off on their own (maybe with a banner) and keeping my painboys closer to my boyz. I know it's best to keep everything together but in practice that often doesn't happen, with the opponent having important units away from their main battleline, or there being an objective that needs grabbing. I do only run units of 5 to be fair (and so the cyborg upgrade is only 25pts) but I feel it's worth it for the extra independence.

Negative Nancy chiming in again, but save the points on those Cyborg and Painboy additions. Unless you want to be fluffy then go ahead.

25pts for a 6+ save. Nobz cost 17pts with 2wounds, so each wound is about 9pts worth. In order to make back those 25pts you need to save 3 wounds minimum with those additions. If you have 5 nobz with Cybork you have 10 wounds total. The chance of rolling 3 6s for them is very small. statistically you are more likely to roll 1 MAYBE 2 but 3 is pushing your lucky pretty far. For those 25pts though you could get another nob and another runt.

For Boyz squads its kind of worse. If you are running a Painboy without any upgrades you need to save 11 boyz models in order to earn back those points (unless you are taking it to heal your weirdboy) but that means you need to roll 11 6s. if you have 60 Boyz within 3in of your Painboy you will statistically roll 10 6s, and that is only if they all die. And honestly if it gets to that point you probably will lose them to Morale anyway so who cares?

Again though, for those 65pts you can field almost 11 more boyz, or 10 boyz a nob and a Big Choppa.

There is very little point in taking protective buffs like that anymore. The same is true for things like the Big Mek with KFF, he needs to save 13 models that would have died without his KFF in order to make back his points, and worse for him at least, he only extends a bubble of protection so you have to cram all those units into close contact with him in order to get the save, that means you are yielding a large part of the board to your enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
You know it would be fluffy and cool if not very competitive if we could give every nob in a nob unit cybork bodies however it only allows 1 in 5 to have it. Which is sad because there are awsome 3rd party models to add cybork legs and arms to ork boys.

Also this. and what is the point of giving 1 model a 6+ FNP save?

 The Shadow wrote:

Interesting you mention running the painboy with the Nobz... I've been planning on giving them cyborg bodies instead and sending them off on their own (maybe with a banner) and keeping my painboys closer to my boyz. I know it's best to keep everything together but in practice that often doesn't happen, with the opponent having important units away from their main battleline, or there being an objective that needs grabbing. I do only run units of 5 to be fair (and so the cyborg upgrade is only 25pts) but I feel it's worth it for the extra independence.

Nice call on using ammo runts to get the unit in range of buffs though

Also, a bit of a general rules question: A lot of people have been mentioning using CP re-rolls for one thing or another, or using them to negate morale tests. Do these stratagems (is that the name?) need to be included with your army list (i.e. if you include 3 re-rolls you can't change your mind mid-battle and auto-pass a Morale check), or can you just choose to use them on the fly, providing you have enough CP, of course?

You can only take cybork on one Nob in 5.

I use Boyz with a trail back to the Painboy to spread out in a footslogging list. Da Jump also helps a lot. With 5 weirdboyz for smite spam, I take redundant Da Jump and Warpath to make sure I always have access to those powers.

CP are not designated at the beginning of the game; you get to determine their use on the fly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

Negative Nancy chiming in again, but save the points on those Cyborg and Painboy additions. Unless you want to be fluffy then go ahead.

25pts for a 6+ save. Nobz cost 17pts with 2wounds, so each wound is about 9pts worth. In order to make back those 25pts you need to save 3 wounds minimum with those additions. If you have 5 nobz with Cybork you have 10 wounds total. The chance of rolling 3 6s for them is very small. statistically you are more likely to roll 1 MAYBE 2 but 3 is pushing your lucky pretty far. For those 25pts though you could get another nob and another runt.

For Boyz squads its kind of worse. If you are running a Painboy without any upgrades you need to save 11 boyz models in order to earn back those points (unless you are taking it to heal your weirdboy) but that means you need to roll 11 6s. if you have 60 Boyz within 3in of your Painboy you will statistically roll 10 6s, and that is only if they all die. And honestly if it gets to that point you probably will lose them to Morale anyway so who cares?

Again though, for those 65pts you can field almost 11 more boyz, or 10 boyz a nob and a Big Choppa.

There is very little point in taking protective buffs like that anymore. The same is true for things like the Big Mek with KFF, he needs to save 13 models that would have died without his KFF in order to make back his points, and worse for him at least, he only extends a bubble of protection so you have to cram all those units into close contact with him in order to get the save, that means you are yielding a large part of the board to your enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
You know it would be fluffy and cool if not very competitive if we could give every nob in a nob unit cybork bodies however it only allows 1 in 5 to have it. Which is sad because there are awsome 3rd party models to add cybork legs and arms to ork boys.

Also this. and what is the point of giving 1 model a 6+ FNP save?

You're really not ceding board. It takes like 6 Boyz to make a trail back to your buffs from even the extreme ends of the table. You are going to want to do that anyway to make sure you stay at leadership 20 to 30 until all your squads are whittled down, banner buff, and warboss buffs. Wagon wheel is just how the game is played.

The Painboy gives a 6+ save to basically everyone in your army if you do this. I've got about 160 models in my footslogging army, and I don't usually lose anyone to leadership outside of models sent off with Da Jump. The Nobz need to be delivered. The KFF/Painboy ammo runtz do that. Those Nobz have to play in the middle of the bubble wrap of Boyz, but that was a good idea anyway to save them from plasma guns. Weirdboyz are the only characters that stay away from that middle; I don't want my characters exploding on a perils result.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, a 6+ save is deceptively strong. Each 6+ save allows you to make an additional 6+ save. It's a geometric distribution of 1/6+(1/6)^2+(1/6)^3+etc. That works out to having about 20% extra Orcs if they get to make the save, so an army of 160 acts for durability purposes like a mob of about 190 if they all get the save. The KFF does the same for the Nobz squads and HQs. Both of those buffs roughly turns your ammo runtz into approximately the same durability as space Marines out in the open since AP does not have an effect on the runtz but does have an effect on the space Marines. Those buffs are really good.

LiMunPai wrote:


Also, a 6+ save is deceptively strong. Each 6+ save allows you to make an additional 6+ save. It's a geometric distribution of 1/6+(1/6)^2+(1/6)^3+etc. That works out to having about 20% extra Orcs if they get to make the save, so an army of 160 acts for durability purposes like a mob of about 190 if they all get the save. The KFF does the same for the Nobz squads and HQs. Both of those buffs roughly turns your ammo runtz into approximately the same durability as space Marines out in the open since AP does not have an effect on the runtz but does have an effect on the space Marines. Those buffs are really good.

Please explain this. Are you talking about having multiple stacking FNP saves, like a painboy + cybork?

pismakron wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:


Also, a 6+ save is deceptively strong. Each 6+ save allows you to make an additional 6+ save. It's a geometric distribution of 1/6+(1/6)^2+(1/6)^3+etc. That works out to having about 20% extra Orcs if they get to make the save, so an army of 160 acts for durability purposes like a mob of about 190 if they all get the save. The KFF does the same for the Nobz squads and HQs. Both of those buffs roughly turns your ammo runtz into approximately the same durability as space Marines out in the open since AP does not have an effect on the runtz but does have an effect on the space Marines. Those buffs are really good.

Please explain this. Are you talking about having multiple stacking FNP saves, like a painboy + cybork?

KFF + Painboy save probability is 0.333+(1 - 0.3333)*0.167 = 0.444444 save

Each Ork that isn't killed because of a save has to be wounded again to try to kill them. That means the same Ork gets to make several saves. The amount of saves an Ork gets to make beforehand it dies is save percent + p^2 + p^3 + etc. That is what is known as a geometric distribution.

Using the geometric distribution, we can determine how many attacks it takes to kill a model with a 44% chance of saving. A model is killed on the first shot 55% of the time. The amount of saves on total that model needs to be force to take to kill them is 1/0.555555 = 1.8.

That means our KFF and Painboy make it so 18 wounds need to be done to kill our 10 ammo runtz.

The math for just the 6+ is 1/0.83333 = 1.2

I've been working on a 3k list, and I'd like some feedback if anyone has the time. Here we go



Tactics are fairly obvious. Kommandos and koptas deploy off table to threaten opponents back field after they've moved around and provide distractions for my boyz. Some wierdboys for jump, warpath, and smite. Mek gunz and lootas hang out with the void shield and provide fire support. Supa-kannon on the other flank so i dont have just one high toughness model, plus it has the range to possibly force my opponent to move. The boyz do what they do. I'd love to field a stompa. I've been converting one from an old GI Joe armor bot, but at 1000 points for the regular or 1200 for the kustom, i just dont see it being worth while. Similar issues with my dread, morka, and standard battlewagon. Loosing blast weapons is super painful.

LiMunPai wrote:
That works out to having about 20% extra Orcs if they get to make the save

Not entirely true. Multi-wound weapons will force you to roll more dice to save every ork. For example, an overcharged plasma will only get saved 1/36 times with a fnp. There's a number of pretty cheap multi-wound weapons. Also, this 20% - even if you somehow manage to get all the boyz in there - which is quite problematic - is not that big of a deal. I'd also like to point out that blobbing up all the squads in one place to benefit from all those auras can also be quite dangerous. Especially if you don't have heavy hitters to wreck tougher vehicles, one land raider or imperial knight can easilly tie up all your boyz for 2-3 turns. Forcing you to disengage and waste time and effectiveness and making it easier to deal with your army piecemeal.

After the game I played last Saturday the only thing I didn't bring that I wish I had was a pain boy. I managed to work both the WAAAGH Banner Nob and a good Mob rule set up to fight a bunch of Thunder Hammer Terminators I killed about 6 or 7 of them in 3 turns. (They used another full squad of marines and an Emperors Champion to win that combat but it held them up for a very long time keeping them from doing anything meaningful. ) I was also wondering where I'd have even put the paint boys probably near the KFF Big Mek and the Warboss and my 30 Grot they were following. At theend of the game My Warboss had taken a single wound and the Grot were screening the KFF and boss still after having trashed 3 squads of Marine left overs maybe 12 or 13 models in 3 units. But as I went first I had to suffer through the other 3 player turns at the end. The KFF plinked off just loads of shots from the marines trying to kill the grot screen to kill the KFF Mek who would have become to closest model.
What a laugh it was and would have been more so with another chance to save the grots. I was owning the center objective for 6 points and had the most kill points already.
Utter madness. Stumping incoming shooting with trash troops is the best. Also took 4 Smasha Guns and 2 Bubble Chukkas. Well the bubble chukka mini game is funny but not really reliable but it gets attention. The Smasha guns on the other hand wreck face. I was rolling 9's and 10's all night so everything they hit was quickly destroyed. They're a fantastic unit.

Take grotsnik instead of a basic painboy. Better save, better toughness, double fnp saves and reliable pk hits, a shooting profile and a nice advance and charge ability for 5poinys more. I wouldn't keep him near the kff mek if it loses you a chance at combat w him.

So thoughts on warlord traits with ghazzy? I've been getting the +1 atk but it's only when charging and I feel like anything ghaz doesn't overkill is things he shouldn't be fighting. The 6+++ would stack with the 6+++ from painboys/grotsnik and as long as he lives with at least one wound he can get D3 wounds back from said painboy.

 koooaei wrote:

LiMunPai wrote:
That works out to having about 20% extra Orcs if they get to make the save

Not entirely true. Multi-wound weapons will force you to roll more dice to save every ork. For example, an overcharged plasma will only get saved 1/36 times with a fnp. There's a number of pretty cheap multi-wound weapons. Also, this 20% - even if you somehow manage to get all the boyz in there - which is quite problematic - is not that big of a deal. I'd also like to point out that blobbing up all the squads in one place to benefit from all those auras can also be quite dangerous. Especially if you don't have heavy hitters to wreck tougher vehicles, one land raider or imperial knight can easilly tie up all your boyz for 2-3 turns. Forcing you to disengage and waste time and effectiveness and making it easier to deal with your army piecemeal.

You are right. It's better to think of the 6+ as giving each model 0.2 extra wounds (which isn't exactly correct, but close enough at those numbers). The 6+ does practically nothing versus a weapon that does more than one wound.

gungo wrote:
Take grotsnik instead of a basic painboy. Better save, better toughness, double fnp saves and reliable pk hits, a shooting profile and a nice advance and charge ability for 5poinys more. I wouldn't keep him near the kff mek if it loses you a chance at combat w him.

I might but I don't usually like Special Characters. I really wish the pain boy wasn't forced to have a Klaw or Saw. I guess it's just a tax. Ether one would be fine near the KFF. I move it up the table and that Mek has a Kill Saw and will fight. The big thing is making sure they can't be hurt, have to charge to go first.I'm happy just hanging around combat as well to pass the buffs to who ever's fighting. It's mostly situational.

 Hades wrote:
So thoughts on warlord traits with ghazzy? I've been getting the +1 atk but it's only when charging and I feel like anything ghaz doesn't overkill is things he shouldn't be fighting. The 6+++ would stack with the 6+++ from painboys/grotsnik and as long as he lives with at least one wound he can get D3 wounds back from said painboy.

If zhardsnark is your warlord you should almost always take the 1 ATk because it's rare when he doesn't get the charge.
However ghaz is a bit slower but not much since he can move advance and charge. I don't find him having 7 atks in the charge a waste because outside of high invul 4+ or better units or cheap hordes (aka conscripts) ghaz you pretty much is my main anti tank when he's on the table.
But if ghaz is your warlord he's a huge target and it never hurts making him extra durable. So either choice is good for him.

Been playing 100% of my games at 2000 points, but need 100 PL to participate in FLGS campaign and finding ALL of my lists way above 100PL at that point level.

Do any units really shine in a PL list?

Finding I need to make a lot of difficult cuts from what I like to play normally.

Has anyone done well at this PL?

Bigdoza wrote:
Been playing 100% of my games at 2000 points, but need 100 PL to participate in FLGS campaign and finding ALL of my lists way above 100PL at that point level.

Do any units really shine in a PL list?

Finding I need to make a lot of difficult cuts from what I like to play normally.

Has anyone done well at this PL?

Powerlevel is broke with stuff that can take a bunch of gear.

Nobz or nob bikers all with kill saws and kombi skorchas or rokkits are best for maxing out points while keeping lower powerlevel.

 Da Squig wrote:

Bigdoza wrote:
Been playing 100% of my games at 2000 points, but need 100 PL to participate in FLGS campaign and finding ALL of my lists way above 100PL at that point level.

Do any units really shine in a PL list?

Finding I need to make a lot of difficult cuts from what I like to play normally.

Has anyone done well at this PL?

Powerlevel is broke with stuff that can take a bunch of gear.

Nobz or nob bikers all with kill saws and kombi skorchas or rokkits are best for maxing out points while keeping lower powerlevel.

Agreed 100%. Not all indexes have the power level problems orks do...but the ork index power levels were probably written after everyone at GW just got drunk and started writing numbers randomly.

Take all your stormboyz, as they are the same price as boyz. Big Gunz and Mek Gunz are also pretty cheap as you can pick the most expensive options. Tankbustas also. Free squigs anyone?

malcontent999 wrote:
I've been working on a 3k list, and I'd like some feedback if anyone has the time. Here we go

Spoiler:

Battalion
Ghaz-215

Wierdboy-62

30 boyz
Nob w/big choppa
7 shoots
3 rokkits
-225

30 boyz
Nob w/big choppa
7 shoots
3 rokkits
-225

30 boyz
Nob w/big choppa
7 shoots
3 rokkits
-225

Grotsnik-74

Banner nob-79

Spearhead
Big mek w/shokk attack-100

Biker big mek w/kff-101

4 mek guns
1 smash
3 mega-kannonz
-185

Battlewag w/supa-kannon
4 rokkits
Ardcase
Deffrolla
-261

11 lootas-187

Vanguard
Wierdboy-62

5 kommandos
Nob w/big choppa
2 rokkits
-78

5 kommandos
Nob w/big choppa
2 rokkits
-78

5 kommandos
Nob w/big choppa
2 rokkits
-78

Outrider
Wierdboy-62

2 deffkoptas w/kopta rokkits-166

2 deffkoptas w/kopta rokkits-166

2 deffkoptas w/kopta rokkits-166

Void shield-190

Tactics are fairly obvious. Kommandos and koptas deploy off table to threaten opponents back field after they've moved around and provide distractions for my boyz. Some wierdboys for jump, warpath, and smite. Mek gunz and lootas hang out with the void shield and provide fire support. Supa-kannon on the other flank so i dont have just one high toughness model, plus it has the range to possibly force my opponent to move. The boyz do what they do. I'd love to field a stompa. I've been converting one from an old GI Joe armor bot, but at 1000 points for the regular or 1200 for the kustom, i just dont see it being worth while. Similar issues with my dread, morka, and standard battlewagon. Loosing blast weapons is super painful.

If you split the Mek guns you can take another spearhead detachment for an extra CP.
Would trade the smash gun for a bubblechukka though - it`s to orky!

3 squads of boys is not too much. Most of the 2000 point lists have them also.^^

If you want a stompa take the small stompa aka Gorkanaut - or 3 of them for the same points.

The rest looks solid.

 Grotrebel wrote:

malcontent999 wrote:
I've been working on a 3k list, and I'd like some feedback if anyone has the time. Here we go

Spoiler:

Battalion
Ghaz-215

Wierdboy-62

30 boyz
Nob w/big choppa
7 shoots
3 rokkits
-225

30 boyz
Nob w/big choppa
7 shoots
3 rokkits
-225

30 boyz
Nob w/big choppa
7 shoots
3 rokkits
-225

Grotsnik-74

Banner nob-79

Spearhead
Big mek w/shokk attack-100

Biker big mek w/kff-101

4 mek guns
1 smash
3 mega-kannonz
-185

Battlewag w/supa-kannon
4 rokkits
Ardcase
Deffrolla
-261

11 lootas-187

Vanguard
Wierdboy-62

5 kommandos
Nob w/big choppa
2 rokkits
-78

5 kommandos
Nob w/big choppa
2 rokkits
-78

5 kommandos
Nob w/big choppa
2 rokkits
-78

Outrider
Wierdboy-62

2 deffkoptas w/kopta rokkits-166

2 deffkoptas w/kopta rokkits-166

2 deffkoptas w/kopta rokkits-166

Void shield-190

Tactics are fairly obvious. Kommandos and koptas deploy off table to threaten opponents back field after they've moved around and provide distractions for my boyz. Some wierdboys for jump, warpath, and smite. Mek gunz and lootas hang out with the void shield and provide fire support. Supa-kannon on the other flank so i dont have just one high toughness model, plus it has the range to possibly force my opponent to move. The boyz do what they do. I'd love to field a stompa. I've been converting one from an old GI Joe armor bot, but at 1000 points for the regular or 1200 for the kustom, i just dont see it being worth while. Similar issues with my dread, morka, and standard battlewagon. Loosing blast weapons is super painful.

If you split the Mek guns you can take another spearhead detachment for an extra CP.
Would trade the smash gun for a bubblechukka though - it`s to orky!

3 squads of boys is not too much. Most of the 2000 point lists have them also.^^

If you want a stompa take the small stompa aka Gorkanaut - or 3 of them for the same points.

The rest looks solid.

I know I'm light on mobs, but if I cut anything for more, it'll basically be a green horde. Lucky for me, I usually play with friends/family, so it's not crazy competitive and I can get away with some fun stuff that may not be the most efficient. The bubble chukka looks fun, but it just doesn't do it for me. The way I'm reading the overheat rules for the kmk, it takes 1 mortal wound max, no matter how many dice are thrown. "If you roll one or more hit rolls of 1, the bearer suffers a mortal wound after shots are resolved." Is this how people are playing it? Do you think it would be worth it to switch the wagon for a gorkanought? My usual opponents are Death Guard and Necrons, so most of the shots coming my way are short/medium range and crossing most of the table isnt too troubling. Eventually I'm gonna have to field that kustom stompa, just can't decide how to support it.

p.s. Thanks for the advice

gungo wrote:You know it would be fluffy and cool if not very competitive if we could give every nob in a nob unit cybork bodies however it only allows 1 in 5 to have it. Which is sad because there are awsome 3rd party models to add cybork legs and arms to ork boys.

Ah. Missed that. Painboys it is then.

SemperMortis wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

Interesting you mention running the painboy with the Nobz... I've been planning on giving them cyborg bodies instead and sending them off on their own (maybe with a banner) and keeping my painboys closer to my boyz. I know it's best to keep everything together but in practice that often doesn't happen, with the opponent having important units away from their main battleline, or there being an objective that needs grabbing. I do only run units of 5 to be fair (and so the cyborg upgrade is only 25pts) but I feel it's worth it for the extra independence.

Negative Nancy chiming in again, but save the points on those Cyborg and Painboy additions. Unless you want to be fluffy then go ahead.

25pts for a 6+ save. Nobz cost 17pts with 2wounds, so each wound is about 9pts worth. In order to make back those 25pts you need to save 3 wounds minimum with those additions. If you have 5 nobz with Cybork you have 10 wounds total. The chance of rolling 3 6s for them is very small. statistically you are more likely to roll 1 MAYBE 2 but 3 is pushing your lucky pretty far. For those 25pts though you could get another nob and another runt.

For Boyz squads its kind of worse. If you are running a Painboy without any upgrades you need to save 11 boyz models in order to earn back those points (unless you are taking it to heal your weirdboy) but that means you need to roll 11 6s. if you have 60 Boyz within 3in of your Painboy you will statistically roll 10 6s, and that is only if they all die. And honestly if it gets to that point you probably will lose them to Morale anyway so who cares?

Again though, for those 65pts you can field almost 11 more boyz, or 10 boyz a nob and a Big Choppa.

There is very little point in taking protective buffs like that anymore. The same is true for things like the Big Mek with KFF, he needs to save 13 models that would have died without his KFF in order to make back his points, and worse for him at least, he only extends a bubble of protection so you have to cram all those units into close contact with him in order to get the save, that means you are yielding a large part of the board to your enemy.

Statistically, having more models instead of a painboy or KFF supporting them may be better, but this isn't always practical in game. Say it's a unit of 19 Boyz and a Painboy in a Battlewagon. Sure, having 26 boyz or whatever might be mathematically better, but those 26 boyz aren't going to fit in the transport. Same with units of 30, that's the max size, so you can't increase it further, although I suppose you can take another squad in that instance. Still, I'd rather have a unit of 30 Boyz Da Jumping up the battlefield and a painboy on a bike behind them to support them, rather than having another unit of 12 boyz that's only going to be able to offer support next turn.

Plus, there's a financial and time cost to consider with so many boyz

LiMunPai wrote:
CP are not designated at the beginning of the game; you get to determine their use on the fly.

Good to hear

gungo wrote:Take grotsnik instead of a basic painboy. Better save, better toughness, double fnp saves and reliable pk hits, a shooting profile and a nice advance and charge ability for 5poinys more. I wouldn't keep him near the kff mek if it loses you a chance at combat w him.

Good call on this

Hey everyone. After seeing the recent tourny results, it seems the popular competitive Ork list is some variant on 120 Boyz w/ Ghaz. I've tried my hand at it, but after two games have not found success. Can I get some advice?

Here's my 2000 pt list:



Some questions:
1) Am I crippling myself by trying to fill a Brigade detachment? Stormboyz are the main outlier that you don't see in other Green Tide lists... but I needed FA to fill the Brigade.
2) Game 1 lost against Tau. Game 2 lost against Deathwatch/Scions. Neither game was close. Are these supposed to be tough matchups?
3) In both games, Turn 1 when I warpath & jump 30 Boyz into their backline they couldn't make the charge. So they sit there without a Painboy or KFF and all die. Are there some games where I simply shouldn't jump Boyz ahead of the tide?

If you can take a brigade go for it. More CP allows you to reroll 1 die for charges and other useful stuff like rerolling ghaz 4+ invul however it's not worth designing a list just to fill slots.

I like your list but your meta is fine with forgeworld take zhardsnark. He's the fastest most reliable PK.

The real question for you is what in your list performed well and what didn't? Multiple painboys are a bit redundant and expensive. I'd just take mad doc and keep him near the main blob of boys and the wierdboys.
I like storm boys and zagstrukk but they don't always perform as you'd hope for the cost.
Some people like KMK guns and some don't if they didn't do that well for you try kannon spam. You get almost 2 kannons for every KMK.
I'd squeeze in a 3rd wierdboy if they did well for you. D6 smite mortal wounds are decent.
Also most tourney lists I see have 180 boys at 6 units x30 however that may not be fun for you and tiresome unless you use movement trays.

Or you can say screw what the internet says and take what you like and works for you. Like I lenjoy my tabkbusta x2 unit trukk. It's not in every comp list but it's fun.and 120 seems to be my cap on boys. And as soon as forgeworld says I can play a mega dread w 2x supa skorchas I'll be making my dread list.