Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**JohnU**

So we have one Ork guy undefeated through 4 rounds at BAO.

Anybody able to pull up his list? It looks like a bunch of Stormboyz and a big squiggoth.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/07/29/bao-first-3-rounds-results-and-videos/

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/player/38ba1584-f15b-4dd1-83cd-20c722820c88

**pismakron**

Stormboyz spam with shooty stuff in a Garg Squiggoth. Makes sense, as it is very tanky and can fight in close combat even while the Tankbustas (I presume) inside are shooting stuff up. It kinda solves the problem of "How to bring tankbustas in an assault horde army"

I would like to see the list, though.

**Nairul**

JohnU wrote:
So we have one Ork guy undefeated through 4 rounds at BAO.

Anybody able to pull up his list? It looks like a bunch of Stormboyz and a big squiggoth.

He talks through the list in this video: https://www.facebook.com/Bloodofkittens/videos/10155748168459789/

-4x Units of Stormboyz, each Boss Nob w/ PK. He says it's a total ~115 Stormboyz.
-Weirdboy
-Big Mek on Bike (KFF)
-Big Mek (KFF)
-Thraka
-Gretchin
-Waagh! Banner Nob
-Gargantuan Squiggoth w/ 2x Big Zzapa

Rounds out to 1957 Points for me. Close enough. The Stormboyz are genius. He took Green Tide and made it over 2x faster. There's real potential for Turn 1 charges here. Flyers beware. Besides the KFF Big Mek I'm not sure who else rides in the Squiggoth. Maybe no one else. He says in the video that the Weirdboy is there to jump Thraka and/or Waagh! Banner Nob forward, so the faster Stormboyz benefit from their auras. Can't jump them Turn 1 if they're embarked on a Squiggoth. Thraka can't even ride on the Squiggoth, because it can't transport Mega Armor models.

So I'm very curious why he took the Squiggoth at all. It's T8 35 Wounds 4+/5++. With only 2x Big Zzappa & 2x Big Shoota it's not very shooty. Some of the nasty gunline lists can actually kill that thing in one turn... since it's the one and only target for the opponent's big guns! Most shooty lists should certainly kill it in two turns. So that thing isn't super likely to get into combat, which is where it shines most. Why give their big guns such validation? Why not bring more Stormboyz & a Painboy biker?

Perhaps the Squiggoth is a tool to increase likelihood of rolling first turn. If deployed with Gretchin, Waagh! Banner Nob, Big Mek and Weirdboy inside... the list becomes 7 deployments. Without such a transport, it's 11+ deployments. At BAO and other ITC events, first turn is decided via roll-off where the player who finished deploying first gains +1 to their roll. Or maybe the Squiggoth is a defense against enemy snipers. One guy at BAO was running 11x Vindicares! Can't snipe my characters (except Thraka) if they're embarked yo.

Or maybe he took it for the cool factor. The guy's last name is McCool, after all...

**Jidmah**

fe40k wrote:
Rokkits at 3 damage are terrible...

A missiles launcher in comparison:

33% chance: 1-2 damage (33-66% minus normal damage)
17% chance: 3 damage
50% chance: 4-6 damage (33-100% plus damage)

I'll take a 67% chance for same, or up double, damage any day.

There is also a 33% chance of failing to kill whatever you try to kill, which multiplies with the 66% to miss in the first place. This means that you need one or more additional rokkits to kill any given target reliably, which in turn means that you need to field 3-4 models equipped with rokkits for each of those.

D6s shred vehicles; 3 damage rokkits don't even cleanly kill most vehicles - there's a lot of ~10 wound vehicles, which requires 4 rokkits, minimum (versus 2 missile minimum).

It also takes 4 rokkits maximum and 10 missiles maximum. That's the difference between one unit of tank bustas taking out a rhino every time and needing up to three to take one out sometimes.

I really loved the idea of mechanized orks' but they don't have any battle tanks, or any good vehicles really. Battle wagon is ok for a 200 point land raider, but it has no guns; so... trucks are pointless, too expensive and too easy to kill (especially compared to rhinos).

This isn't new though. There was never a configuration for the battlewagon which could match a predator, wave serpent or LRBT in shooting.

**gungo**

Nairul wrote:
JohnU wrote:
So we have one Ork guy undefeated through 4 rounds at BAO.

Anybody able to pull up his list? It looks like a bunch of Stormboyz and a big squiggoth.

He talks through the list in this video: https://www.facebook.com/Bloodofkittens/videos/10155748168459789/

-4x Units of Stormboyz, each Boss Nob w/ PK. He says it's a total ~115 Stormboyz.
-Weirdboy
-Big Mek on Bike (KFF)
-Big Mek (KFF)
-Thraka
-Gretchin
-Waagh! Banner Nob
-Gargantuan Squiggoth w/ 2x Big Zzapa

Rounds out to 1957 Points for me. Close enough. The Stormboyz are genius. He took Green Tide and made it over 2x faster. There's real potential for Turn 1 charges here. Flyers beware. Besides the KFF Big Mek I'm not sure who else rides in the Squiggoth. Maybe no one else. He says in the video that the Weirdboy is there to jump Thraka and/or Waagh! Banner Nob forward, so the faster Stormboyz benefit from their auras. Can't jump them Turn 1 if they're embarked on a Squiggoth. Thraka can't even ride on the Squiggoth, because it can't transport Mega Armor models.

So I'm very curious why he took the Squiggoth at all. It's T8 35 Wounds 4+/5++. With only 2x Big Zzappa & 2x Big Shoota it's not very shooty. Some of the nasty gunline lists can actually kill that thing in one turn... since it's the one and only target for the opponent's big guns! Most shooty lists should certainly kill it in two turns. So that thing isn't super likely to get into combat, which is where it shines most. Why give their big guns such validation? Why not bring more Stormboyz & a Painboy biker?

Perhaps the Squiggoth is a tool to increase likelihood of rolling first turn. If deployed with Gretchin, Waagh! Banner Nob, Big Mek and Weirdboy inside... the list becomes 7 deployments. Without such a transport, it's 11+ deployments. At BAO and other ITC events, first turn is decided via roll-off where the player who finished deploying first gains +1 to their roll. Or maybe the Squiggoth is a defense against enemy snipers. One guy at BAO was running 11x Vindicares! Can't snipe my characters (except Thraka) if they're embarked yo.

Or maybe he took it for the cool factor. The guy's last name is McCool, after all...

the Garg squig is an msu destroyer. If it charges you make that huge model be within 2in of as many units as you can be deal d6 mortal wounds to each and every unit you can get near. That's brutal to msu lists and that's not even including its atks which are great. Gretchen are a screen to prevent combat w the squig if you don't want it. The big mek on bike protects the main horde of stormboys. I get the weirdboy and ghaz which is smart to add more atks to the stormboys. The waaagh banner just seems slow, but I guess it's there for turn 2 buffing. List would do well with zagstruk as well and better if warboss charge didn't kill stormboys.

**MangoMadness**

Jidmah wrote:
fe40k wrote:
Rokkits at 3 damage are terrible...

A missiles launcher in comparison:

33% chance: 1-2 damage (33-66% minus normal damage)
17% chance: 3 damage
50% chance: 4-6 damage (33-100% plus damage)

I'll take a 67% chance for same, or up double, damage any day.

There is also a 33% chance of failing to kill whatever you try to kill, which multiplies with the 66% to miss in the first place. This means that you need one or more additional rokkits to kill any given target reliably, which in turn means that you need to field 3-4 models equipped with rokkits for each of those.

D6s shred vehicles; 3 damage rokkits don't even cleanly kill most vehicles - there's a lot of ~10 wound vehicles, which requires 4 rokkits, minimum (versus 2 missile minimum).

It also takes 4 rokkits maximum and 10 missiles maximum. That's the difference between one unit of tank bustas taking out a rhino every time and needing up to three to take one out sometimes.

I understand what you are saying but reliability isnt Orky.

I think the weapons are back to front, Marine ML should do a fixed damage, they are production line weapons, Ork weapons should be random, is it a big rokkit, a small rokkit, did the mek pack more splodey bitz in it than the last rokkit etc etc.

Orks should be random, sometimes they fizzle, sometimes they go crazy good but until you roll the dice you should never know

**SemperMortis**

The biggest issue comparing Tankbustas and Devestator Marines is that it doesn't take into account buffs nor does it take into account realistic options. For instance, you aren't going to have a unit of Tank Bustas foot sloggin, they are always in a wagon or Trukk so tack on another 85-160pts for the unit. Dev Marines on the other hand can camp in some Ruins or any kind of terrain really and receive a 2+ save, so they can realistically stay out like that. 5 Dev Marine with 4 launchers and a cherub is 170pts. For the same price you can take 5 Tank Bustas in a Trukk with a Big Shoota and a Wreckin Ball. Who do you think is more durable? who do you think is more damaging to the enemy?

**thenewgozoku**

I realy like flashgits in this edition. Best way to use them?

**koooaei**

I've had a game vs GK recently. Wanted to test mech orks, so here's a bit of info.

Ork list:

Spoiler:

GK list:

Spoiler:

Game:

Spoiler:

Some thoughts:
- Ghaz is mvp once again. He's simply excellent - he deals a lot of damage, buffs the army and is quite durable for an ork. t6, w8 and 4++ is amazing to have. It's a good quiestion which warlord trait is preferable. I usually take +1 attack, however, i'd prefer 6+++ here. I'm pretty positive Ghaz is a good pick for any ork list.
- Transports are not as durable as you'd want them to be, however, they're passable and are definitely required for nobz and tankbustas. With the amount of multi-damage weapons and mortal wounds from magic, even a t8 battlewagon with 16 wounds goes down in 1-2 turns without much chances. I'm still not sure what's better - a trukk or a wagon. A wagon is ok in mellee at least. But a trukk is probably a bit more durable point-for point.
- Nobz themselves are great. However, they need ammo runts which eat up transport space. The more ammo runts you manage to fit in - the better. So, 6 nobz and 6 ammo runts is a solid unit to fit inside a trukk. 4+ armor is good now. Nobz would have been a top tier unit if transports were cheaper.
- Small units of choppaboyz are not amazing. I think trukkboyz would perform below average. Boyz for wagons...not sure about that. They sure help with eating up explosions, overwatch and in some cases smites, but they just die so easilly and don't pack enough punch. If it was a larger point game, i'd probably just get more nobz with ammo runts and leave boyz with shootas to camp on objectives. We still need a lot of CP, so at least 3 squads would be needed. This min boy squads would also in a way take big gun'z space making those obsolete - as currently big gunz are so mediocre at shooting, it's basically an afterthought and they're used just to camp on objectives.
- Tankbustas underperformed but that's mostly due to a lot of lucky 4+ armor saves. I'm still not sure about them - needs further playtesting.
- Mech orks overall feel underwhelming. we really lack bodies due to very expensive transports. If you still like mech as an alternative to hordes, try focusing on nobz and Ghaz. They're what's making the list function somewhat. However, durability is a huge issue, so minimise your drops to go first - it can help vs shooty armies. Nobz are noticeably more durable than they used to be with all the 4+ saves and ammo runts, however, don't overestimate them.

**Rismonite**

thenewgozoku wrote:
I realy like flashgits in this edition. Best way to use them?

I almost made a similar post yesterday. I've wanted an excuse to buy that awesome kit but Flash Gitz always come up as terrible. 5 Flash Gitz move and shoot MEQ about as good as 20 Shoota boyz while costing almost the same, and are superior when stationary (This all discounting the 1 in 6 chance you roll that six and shoot anything nearby again). I would have any dedicated group of them standing near a KFF, they might not be bad to have near a frontline if you feel you have an ork army that might like to fall back, and let Flash Gitz shoot. Strength 5 is great vs T4 and doesn't falloff at T8. Still a Nob in CC, without Armor anyways.

Also, I think I'd like to hear more about grotz as more then a troop tax. Two squads of 30 with the Squig Runtherder, a Lash Runtherder, and a Painboy standing between them seems like a small mess. I'd almost consider a Banner Nob except the Grotz would always be wounding on 6 in CC. Can strategic application of movement trays make this unit not soo bad?

**pismakron**

Rismonite wrote:

Also, I think I'd like to hear more about grotz as more then a troop tax. Two squads of 30 with the Squig Runtherder, a Lash Runtherder, and a Painboy standing between them seems like a small mess. I'd almost consider a Banner Nob except the Grotz would always be wounding on 6 in CC. Can strategic application of movement trays make this unit not soo bad?

60 grots + 2x herder + painboy is 300 points.

For the same amount of points you could get 50 shootaboyz. It doesn't matter how strategic you apply your movement tray. Gretchins suck. You know, with warpath, grot lash, ghaz, banner nob and size, gretchins can dish out 3 attacks hitting on 2+. And they still suck.

**Breng77**

MangoMadness wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
fe40k wrote:
Rokkits at 3 damage are terrible...

A missiles launcher in comparison:

33% chance: 1-2 damage (33-66% minus normal damage)
17% chance: 3 damage
50% chance: 4-6 damage (33-100% plus damage)

I'll take a 67% chance for same, or up double, damage any day.

There is also a 33% chance of failing to kill whatever you try to kill, which multiplies with the 66% to miss in the first place. This means that you need one or more additional rokkits to kill any given target reliably, which in turn means that you need to field 3-4 models equipped with rokkits for each of those.

D6s shred vehicles; 3 damage rokkits don't even cleanly kill most vehicles - there's a lot of ~10 wound vehicles, which requires 4 rokkits, minimum (versus 2 missile minimum).

It also takes 4 rokkits maximum and 10 missiles maximum. That's the difference between one unit of tank bustas taking out a rhino every time and needing up to three to take one out sometimes.

I understand what you are saying but reliability isnt Orky.

I think the weapons are back to front, Marine ML should do a fixed damage, they are production line weapons, Ork weapons should be random, is it a big rokkit, a small rokkit, did the mek pack more splodey bitz in it than the last rokkit etc etc.

Orks should be random, sometimes they fizzle, sometimes they go crazy good but until you roll the dice you should never know

The issue with that is the fact that Ork shooting based on BS is already so random, if we also had random damage it would suck, I get the fluffiness, but from a balance standpoint it would be bad to hit with your 1 out of 3 rokkits and then roll a 1 for damage.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pismakron wrote:
Rismonite wrote:

Also, I think I'd like to hear more about grotz as more then a troop tax. Two squads of 30 with the Squig Runtherder, a Lash Runtherder, and a Painboy standing between them seems like a small mess. I'd almost consider a Banner Nob except the Grotz would always be wounding on 6 in CC. Can strategic application of movement trays make this unit not soo bad?

60 grots + 2x herder + painboy is 300 points.

For the same amount of points you could get 50 shootaboyz. It doesn't matter how strategic you apply your movement tray. Gretchins suck. You know, with warpath, grot lash, ghaz, banner nob and size, gretchins can dish out 3 attacks hitting on 2+. And they still suck.

To be good gretchin needed access to better guns. They have a 4+ to shoot, but can only have 12" range S3 single shot guns. If they had a "shoota" type option with longer range, or could take heavy weapons (like big guns) they could be decent. But as is they are not good for anything other than chaff, and orks don't really need chaff.

**Nairul**

gungo wrote:
the Garg squig is an msu destroyer. If it charges you make that huge model be within 2in of as many units as you can be deal d6 mortal wounds to each and every unit you can get near. That's brutal to msu lists and that's not even including its atks which are great. Gretchen are a screen to prevent combat w the squig if you don't want it. The big mek on bike protects the main horde of stormboys. I get the weirdboy and ghaz which is smart to add more atks to the stormboys. The waaagh banner just seems slow, but I guess it's there for turn 2 buffing. List would do well with zagstruk as well and better if warboss charge didn't kill stormboys.

Yeah, I acknowledged the Garg squiggoth shines in combat. But against shooty lists, against your average Guilliman gunline, etc. it shouldn't survive more than two battle rounds and thus won't make it into combat... especially if it's literally the only model in your army worth shooting big guns and lascannons at (such is the case w/ McCool's list). So I wondered if he didn't value it for the alternative reasons I listed previously.

I'm not sure if Zagstruk belongs, and I can surmise reasons why he didn't field him. First and most significant, he's an extra deployment and therefore jeopardizes first turn (jump packs can't embark on Squiggoth). With 4x units of 25+ Stormboyz each, Morale shouldn't be an issue and thus Zagstruk's special rule becomes slightly redundant (until later stages of the game). 88 Points is cheap, but for that price you could take 11 extra Stormboyz. I think 33x S4 attacks outweighs Zagstruk's 5x S6 & 2x Vulcha Klaw attacks.

**BaconCatBug**

So it's looking like pure Stormboyz over combined Boyz+Stormboyz is the way to go?

**Breng77**

BaconCatBug wrote:
So it's looking like pure Stormboyz over combined Boyz+Stormboyz is the way to go?

I think if you are expecting flyers to be prevalent it is the way to go.

**koooaei**

BaconCatBug wrote:
So it's looking like pure Stormboyz over combined Boyz+Stormboyz is the way to go?

Not necesserily. I find boy'z speed good enough - even for footsloggas. They're usually in combat turn 2. They're still more durable point-for point than stormboyz. You can have shootas in there. And greentide attack bonus is great. Also, it's harder to keep Ghaz up with stormboyz. But overall, yeah. Stormboyz are quite good as they're choppaboyz that are 2 times faster.

**Nairul**

BaconCatBug wrote:
So it's looking like pure Stormboyz over combined Boyz+Stormboyz is the way to go?

Yeah it appears so. The strength of green tide is in hitting all at once. With hybrid Boyz/Stormboyz, your Stormboyz are jumping ahead of the main horde and losing KFF/FNP, unless you also want to bring the Biker Big Mek and Biker Painboy forward, in which case your Boyz are losing those buffs.

**pismakron**

And Stormboyz are not twice as fast as Boyz. Stormboyz has 12" inch movement unless you want to delete a sixth of your troops, regular Boyz has 5+D6 movement. The biggest advantage to stormboyz is that you can move over the screen and assault his rear. Apparently you can also assault directly over enemy models as mentioned earlier.

**em_en_oh_pee**

Any thoughts on a Chinork list? What is the go-to flyer for Orks? The Wazbomb?

**Nairul**

pismakron wrote:
And Stormboyz are not twice as fast as Boyz. Stormboyz has 12" inch movement unless you want to delete a sixth of your troops, regular Boyz has 5+D6 movement. The biggest advantage to stormboyz is that you can move over the screen and assault his rear. Apparently you can also assault directly over enemy models as mentioned earlier.

You're right. They're not twice as fast. They're more than twice as fast. 12 is more than double 5. And those 12" can ignore any intervening battlefield terrain or models.

**Frozocrone**

pismakron wrote:
And Stormboyz are not twice as fast as Boyz. Stormboyz has 12" inch movement unless you want to delete a sixth of your troops, regular Boyz has 5+D6 movement. The biggest advantage to stormboyz is that you can move over the screen and assault his rear. Apparently you can also assault directly over enemy models as mentioned earlier.

And the stormboyz can't have 12+D6 because...

Honestly it's negligible when yoive got 90 Stormboyz running at you, not including Da Jump and Kommandos.

**Breng77**

pismakron wrote:
And Stormboyz are not twice as fast as Boyz. Stormboyz has 12" inch movement unless you want to delete a sixth of your troops, regular Boyz has 5+D6 movement. The biggest advantage to stormboyz is that you can move over the screen and assault his rear. Apparently you can also assault directly over enemy models as mentioned earlier.

This is only true if you advance and charge in the same turn, so on a non-charge turn they are more than twice as fast, on a charge turn they are on average 33% faster if you don't want to risk the model losses.

**SemperMortis**

thenewgozoku wrote:
I realy like flashgits in this edition. Best way to use them?

On your shelf. Great looking model but GW yet again made them useless in every way possible. short ranged gunz teamed with no armor and far to much points investment = useless. Sure you can camp them in a Transport but that just means you are investing more points into a mobile bunker that isn't really that scary in the first place. Secondly, if the vehicle moves your Gitz inside suffer -1 to hit so they are still BS2. It would have been so simple for them to give Badruk's special rule the ability to function inside the vehicle AND to allow the Mobile Fortress rule to apply to passengers and give Orkz a decent shooting option, but nope, orkz can't have nice things

**pismakron**

Nairul wrote:
pismakron wrote:
And Stormboyz are not twice as fast as Boyz. Stormboyz has 12" inch movement unless you want to delete a sixth of your troops, regular Boyz has 5+D6 movement. The biggest advantage to stormboyz is that you can move over the screen and assault his rear. Apparently you can also assault directly over enemy models as mentioned earlier.

You're right. They're not twice as fast. They're more than twice as fast. 12 is more than double 5. And those 12" can ignore any intervening battlefield terrain or models.

They are not more than twice as fast. Boyz will on average move 8.5" in the movement phase. Stormboyz will very rarely move more than twice that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frozocrone wrote:
pismakron wrote:
And Stormboyz are not twice as fast as Boyz. Stormboyz has 12" inch movement unless you want to delete a sixth of your troops, regular Boyz has 5+D6 movement. The biggest advantage to stormboyz is that you can move over the screen and assault his rear. Apparently you can also assault directly over enemy models as mentioned earlier.

And the stormboyz can't have 12+D6 because...

They can. But then you incur mortal wounds in the charge phase, which might be acceptable, but still a significant downside.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
thenewgozoku wrote:
I realy like flashgits in this edition. Best way to use them?

On your shelf. Great looking model but GW yet again made them useless in every way possible. short ranged gunz teamed with no armor and far to much points investment = useless. Sure you can camp them in a Transport but that just means you are investing more points into a mobile bunker that isn't really that scary in the first place. Secondly, if the vehicle moves your Gitz inside suffer -1 to hit so they are still BS2. It would have been so simple for them to give Badruk's special rule the ability to function inside the vehicle AND to allow the Mobile Fortress rule to apply to passengers and give Orkz a decent shooting option, but nope, orkz can't have nice things

I think that giving them 4+ armor(or at least 5+) and an assault shooting profile would have been the best option. But to be fair, most two-wound infantry is overpriced in 8th edition. Including primaries marines and bikes. There just are too many multidamage weapon profiles out there.

**SemperMortis**

To many multi wound weapons that can be easily spammed for cheap and which cost less (usually) then the price of a Flashgit.

I refuse to believe GW play tested the Ork index and thought "Yeah this is good enough". Anyone with any experience in the Ork faction could see that almost everything was useless. I was really hoping to get excited for buggies/skorchas/trakkz but again they are trash :( I am still convinced the deff kopta is salvageable with a significant price drop but beyond that its pretty much a handful of buff characters, boyz and stormboyz with everything else being sub optimal choices.

**Novelist47**

Rismonite wrote:
thenewgozoku wrote:
I realy like flashgits in this edition. Best way to use them?

I almost made a similar post yesterday. I've wanted an excuse to buy that awesome kit but Flash Gitz always come up as terrible. 5 Flash Gitz move and shoot MEQ about as good as 20 Shoota boyz while costing almost the same, and are superior when stationary (This all discounting the 1 in 6 chance you roll that six and shoot anything nearby again). I would have any dedicated group of them standing near a KFF, they might not be bad to have near a frontline if you feel you have an ork army that might like to fall back, and let Flash Gitz shoot. Strength 5 is great vs T4 and doesn't falloff at T8. Still a Nob in CC, without Armor anyways.

How about putting them into a Big Trakk with a Kannon. 6 Flash Gitz with kannon and big shootas inside 15 wounds m 14' beast sounds pretty good on paper. They count as being stationary to boot.

**Bigdoza**

Ran a squad of 9 Biker Nobs with Kombi Skorcha over the weekend.

Use Da Jump boyz to lock up the bigger threats to them, ran them to the weaker flank abusing LOS, and the shooting they put out was insane. Just zipped across the whole line.

Basically Unchargable unless you want to die or be horribly wounded on the way in.

They removed a unit a turn and got a few 20" moves with advance and still skorched.

Unit was expensive as hell, but it killed like everything.

**Frozocrone**

pismakron wrote:
Frozocrone wrote:
pismakron wrote:
And Stormboyz are not twice as fast as Boyz. Stormboyz has 12" inch movement unless you want to delete a sixth of your troops, regular Boyz has 5+D6 movement. The biggest advantage to stormboyz is that you can move over the screen and assault his rear. Apparently you can also assault directly over enemy models as mentioned earlier.

And the stormboyz can't have 12+D6 because...

They can. But then you incur mortal wounds in the charge phase, which might be acceptable, but still a significant downside..

54 pts on average to cripple part of an army? Yeah...

A significant downside is footslogging 5". Unless you also advance in which case it's a maximum of 11" AND requires a Warboss nearby to actually charge who needs to be advancing as far as the Boyz themselves. Stormboyz can casually move 12" in any direction they like without losing casualties anyway - and can still charge after moving 12".

I love my footsloggers - but Stormboyz are strictly better except in one department - filling up a Battalion Detachment.

**NOLA Chris**

Bigdoza wrote:
Ran a squad of 9 Biker Nobs with Kombi Skorcha over the weekend.

Use Da Jump boyz to lock up the bigger threats to them, ran them to the weaker flank abusing LOS, and the shooting they put out was insane. Just zipped across the whole line.

Basically Unchargable unless you want to die or be horribly wounded on the way in.

They removed a unit a turn and got a few 20" moves with advance and still skorched.

Unit was expensive as hell, but it killed like everything.

I did the same in our local escalation League (750 pts)
even three of them shredded!

Gives me hope for my Speed Freaks!

**Bigdoza**

This is the list I ran.

It is a bit odd because needed 100PL and 2000pt.

Spoiler: