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Personally I am just hoping GW breaks the cycle of releasing Horrendous Ork codexs and supplements. I went from 4th to 7th begging for a new codex with some better units to use, I got 7th edition codex instead where everything sucked except bikers, Meganobz and Mek Gunz. Then we had the Ghaz V1 release that sucked horribly, then the Grukk Facerippa release which didn't help us, then we got Ghaz V2 which really sucked, I mean our mega formation was so laughably bad that my opponents would give me an extra 100pts just to kit up some of my required units. Finally we got our new Plane which looks cool...and sucks horribly.

I really want this new codex to buff about 3/4ths of the entire current index, give us GOOD clan rules and not utterly nerf the one good thing we have right now which is boyz.

SemperMortis wrote:

I really want this new codex to buff about 3/4ths of the entire current index, give us GOOD clan rules and not utterly nerf the one good thing we have right now which is boyz.

All my orks are death skulls so I hope to gork we get something decent. Since death skulls are based around tech and luck, I can guess it'll be something like better saves on vehicles or extra rerolls.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

I really want this new codex to buff about 3/4ths of the entire current index, give us GOOD clan rules and not utterly nerf the one good thing we have right now which is boyz.

All my orks are death skulls so I hope to gork we get something decent. Since death skulls are based around tech and luck, I can guess it'll be something like better saves on vehicles or extra rerolls.

Maybe a 6+ invulnerable save from the lucky blue paint?

I'm somewhat optimistic about the clan abilities, just because the CSM ones are pretty good. Some seem to be better than others, but I don't think that any of them are punishments in the guise of benefits like the orks seem to often get.

I'm just glad there's going to be representation for Klanz rather than WAAAGH! Ghazghkull being our only source of extra goodies.

The good thing is that stratagems gives them more leeway for giving us fluffy choices without making Klan rulez the end all be all for which one is the most effective.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

I really want this new codex to buff about 3/4ths of the entire current index, give us GOOD clan rules and not utterly nerf the one good thing we have right now which is boyz.

All my orks are death skulls so I hope to gork we get something decent. Since death skulls are based around tech and luck, I can guess it'll be something like better saves on vehicles or extra rerolls.

Maybe a 6+ invulnerable save from the lucky blue paint?

I'm somewhat optimistic about the clan abilities, just because the CSM ones are pretty good. Some seem to be better than others, but I don't think that any of them are punishments in the guise of benefits like the orks seem to often get.

Because what we need in the ork faction is another 6+ roll......

I am very jaded I openly admit, but so far those jaded predictions have been about spot on . I PREDICT that The Ork Codex will nerf Ghaz, Boyz and Weirdboy in some way, our PKs will drop maybe 5pts at the most, BC will go up in price 1-2pts and Ork Boyz will either become 1pt more expensive or they will limit the unit sizes to 20.

What I WANT is good/fluffy Klan Rules, a way to play every style of Ork without being at a huge disadvantage (I get sad looking at my 35 Warbikes on the shelf) and for our Codex to be relevant rather then 3/4ths of it being trash, 3/16th useful and 1/16th good.

If it makes you feel any better, Matt Ward is back at GW. He loves Orks right? RIGHT?

 JohnU wrote:
If it makes you feel any better, Matt Ward is back at GW. He loves Orks right? RIGHT?

Wait Matt Ward is back at GW? I thought Ultramarines becoming OP as hell was a mistake

Yeah I Know all about Matt Ward and his child like obsession with ruining every other faction except Ultrasmurfs.

Trust me I am convinced that Matt Ward has some kind of direct line to Phil Kelly (Or whoever wrote the Ork 7th Edition Codex) and that was why we had so many amazing cool units that were missing 1-2 key elements to make them useful.

Examples:

Everyone gets to run and charge during a Waaagh! Except Warbikers and Walkers
Mork/Gorkanaught is a huge awesome looking Walker! it dies to a single mental shot and has no guns or CC ability worth mentioning on a 300pt model.

Killa Kanz Grotzooka drops in price! but the Kan itself goes up in price about 50%

Ghaz gets a 2++ during a Waaagh!, we have formations that let us Waaagh every turn! Ghaz isn't allowed to be the Warboss in those formations..WTF!

Ghaz finally gets a formation where he can waaagh every turn! it is so expensive that you aren't competitive

So, how are nobz working for you guys?

Yesterday I had a game where I switched out two mobs of boyz for two nobz units with each 2 PK, 4 stabbas, a shoota on each of them and 6 ammo runts, so the unit had a total of 18 wounds with basically a 4+ save.

They totally wrecked house. With help of the the nob banner they tore through about 50 daemonettes (three units of 30, though they were shot at first) and two daemon princes. My enemies didn't want to waste their anti-infantry shots on nobz with 4+ when they could kill boyz with 6+ instead, anything with more than 1 damage was just killing a grot each time.
Their shooting was also ok, 12 shots with 6 rerolls tend kill something. Not as good as shootaboyz, but more than nothing.

In total, they pretty much performed just as good as a large squad of boyz, except they were pretty good at handling armored targets. I think I'll keep testing them.

In addition lootaz+nobz+boyz was a pretty good combination. Everything was vulnerable to the same weapons, everything didn't give a damn about the vindicator shells, lascannons and battle cannons on the other side of the table. I think the list needs some tuning, but I think two squads of footslogging nobz are a great addition to any horde.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
I PREDICT that The Ork Codex will nerf Ghaz, Boyz and Weirdboy in some way, our PKs will drop maybe 5pts at the most, BC will go up in price 1-2pts and Ork Boyz will either become 1pt more expensive or they will limit the unit sizes to 20.

I'll quote this to you

So, how are nobz working for you guys?

Yesterday I had a game where I switched out two mobs of boyz for two nobz units with each 2 PK, 4 stabbas, a shoota on each of them and 6 ammo runts, so the unit had a total of 18 wounds with basically a 4+ save.

They totally wrecked house. With help of the the nob banner they tore through about 50 daemonettes (three units of 30, though they were shot at first) and two daemon princes. My enemies didn't want to waste their anti-infantry shots on nobz with 4+ when they could kill boyz with 6+ instead, anything with more than 1 damage was just killing a grot each time.
Their shooting was also ok, 12 shots with 6 rerolls tend kill something. Not as good as shootaboyz, but more than nothing.

In total, they pretty much performed just as good as a large squad of boyz, except they were pretty good at handling armored targets. I think I'll keep testing them.

In addition lootaz+nobz+boyz was a pretty good combination. Everything was vulnerable to the same weapons, everything didn't give a damn about the vindicator shells, lascannons and battle cannons on the other side of the table. I think the list needs some tuning, but I think two squads of footslogging nobz are a great addition to any horde.

Did you have any KFF protection in your list? I've tried footslogging nobz before (admittedly the first time was using power rating so it's probably not a good indicator of their effectiveness) and they absolutely lit up a terminator squad that tried to assault them with kombi skorchas and the big choppas in the squad did some good work after they were properly engaged. The ammo runts are definitely a must-take, though I debate the usefulness of the power stabbas compared to taking normal choppas, given that I face against daemons and harlequins moreso than MEQ. But even against MEQ the stabbas seem to be overkill since a normal Nob squad should crush most SM units short of thunder shield termies which have a 3+ invuln anyways.

I went for Killsaws rather than PK's for the extra AP and reliability to inflict 2 wounds per hit, I think its worth the extra cost to make sure they do the max amount of damage possible.

So far (using points), my Nobz are made of 4 big choppas, 2 killsaws and any other Nobz that I can fit into the unit have just choppas and shootas (maybe a kombi-skorcha if I have points leftover).

I haven't used them in any mech lists yet, are they worth it in those lists or is just too many eggs in one basket?

Ammo runts make the unit. 4 points to eat those multi-damage shots is essential. I load them out like Grimskul, a couple killsaws and BCs for the rest, keeps them relatively cheap and solid damage output. I'm not against stabbas or slugga/choppa, it just doesn't fill a role I need.

I don't think they're tough enough to walk though. Wheels or Jumping for me. Even an extra turn in a Trukk helps a lot.

I pray our clan bonuses are decent. I'm about to start painting a large batch of orks and I'm considering leaving their jackets unpainted for now so I don't get screwed in case my clan of choice (Goffs) gets the short end of the stick.

 JohnU wrote:
Ammo runts make the unit. 4 points to eat those multi-damage shots is essential. I load them out like Grimskul, a couple killsaws and BCs for the rest, keeps them relatively cheap and solid damage output. I'm not against stabbas or slugga/choppa, it just doesn't fill a role I need.

I don't think they're tough enough to walk though. Wheels or Jumping for me. Even an extra turn in a Trukk helps a lot.

That's what I'm thinking. Once I have enough boyz painted up, I'll finish my nobz, who'll be taking the trukks now that meganobz are terrible. With the ammo runts, it really doesn't matter if they explode or not.

And I agree with most here about powa stabbas. BCs and PKs (or Killsaws) are just more useful. I think two PKs, 4 Big Choppas, all shootas, two of which are kustom-skorchas, would do nicely. This sits nicely at 266 points, which isn't terrible for 18 wounds with a 4+ armor save, 6 of which don't count for morale.

Of course, I'll have to actually play some games with a horde list first before I figure out how to add other things on. This edition kind of killed my ability to use battlewagons and vehicles en-masse.

What would you guys like to see for shoota boyz as far as a buff to make them good?

When I say good I mean for them to serve in their traditional role of shooting not assaulting. To me 6pts for 2 S4 shots at 18 with a 2/3rd chance to miss isn't really worth it. Deepstriking 30 in range of a tac unit yields you 60 shots, 20 hits and 10 wounds against a 3+ or possibly a 2+ if they are in cover which means 3ish die or 1-2 if they are in cover. I really think they need a 3rd or possibly a 4th shot. Conversely if they could get +1BS for being shoota boyz that would be sweet. That or maybe give them all S5 guns to make them more appealing. what do you guys think?

SemperMortis wrote:
What would you guys like to see for shoota boyz as far as a buff to make them good?

When I say good I mean for them to serve in their traditional role of shooting not assaulting. To me 6pts for 2 S4 shots at 18 with a 2/3rd chance to miss isn't really worth it. Deepstriking 30 in range of a tac unit yields you 60 shots, 20 hits and 10 wounds against a 3+ or possibly a 2+ if they are in cover which means 3ish die or 1-2 if they are in cover. I really think they need a 3rd or possibly a 4th shot. Conversely if they could get +1BS for being shoota boyz that would be sweet. That or maybe give them all S5 guns to make them more appealing. what do you guys think?

I tend to take 20/10 slugga/shoota boyz in my squads, and remove wounds according to what I think is needed in the fight. That's still 40 shots after da jump which will catch a wound or two vs MEQ and the shootaz soak the overwatch damage if I'm charging. I also like the flexibility of that squad in a TAC list. Of course I would prefer S4 hitting on 3+ instead of 5+, so choppaz are clearly better than shootaz in a vaccum, but not always. But more importantly, I think discussing 'what would would you guys like to see' is not a tactical discussion, and definitely doesn't make Orkz more competitive. It's just complaining and dreaming. No offence buddy, but I'm a massive lurker in these forums and for me it can get tiresome reading through people talking about 'what they want' instead of 'what to do' with the tools we have.

And on the discussion around Nobz, I find they are good when I'm jumping them. If my opponent lets me squeeze them in the backline so they are charging tanks I have a massive advantage with all the ablative wounds from the ammo runts, the Nobz will likely die but they'll hopefully force some fleeing and reduce their dakka. I like BC's personally, for the cost the reliable damage. If I don't jump them they get crushed by heavy dakka, I don't bring a mechanized list. I'm bringing flashgitz for that slot (roughly the same points as a Nob+BC) next week, I reckon the ammo runt rerolls will be substantially more useful in that crew, but I'm sure I will have to deploy them fairly aggressively so they can be in range without transport/moving. I saw a successful list bring multiple big gunz (kannons) with grotz, supporting a green tide, and I'm hoping the flash gitz will fill a similar roll, but the profile of the kannon is substantially better than a snazzgun IMO. We'll see.

I hope they make Shoota Boyz good. I really like them, but right now Slugga Boyz seem significantly better. (I like to imagine that if I were living in the 40k universe that I'd be a shoota boy, but more likely I'd be an ammo runt. )

Maybe Bad Moons will get Clan ability that lets the advance and shoot Assault Weapons without penalty? Or maybe even that plus move and shoot Heavy Weapons without penalty? On most armies that would be pretty overpowered, but with Ork BS I don't think it would be. I could see that as a Bad Moon warlord trait as well. That wouldn't make them good enough at shooting to have them stand around and fire rather than charging in, it would just make their shooting better while they advance towards the enemy.

They could make Gun Crazy Showoffs a stratagem rather than a 6+ ability of Flash Gitz. I think that would help Flash Gitz and Lootas a lot, but it probably wouldn't be worth it on Shoota Boyz. Maybe they could just make it a 5+ ability on both Flash Gitz and Shoota Boyz? If we had six units of Shoota Boyz it would be going off a couple times a turn.

I don't think either of my suggestions would necessarily make Shoota Boyz as good as Slugga Boyz, but maybe some combination of small buffs would do the trick.

honestly until our codex comes out we've done all the strategizing possible with our limited index. From here on out its all guess work to see whats in our codex.

We don't have anything really useful to talk about now because the only good units in our entire codex are Boyz, Weirdboyz, Stormboyz, Ghaz and a lot of filler stuff that isn't as good as those options but can be taken.

SemperMortis wrote:
honestly until our codex comes out we've done all the strategizing possible with our limited index. From here on out its all guess work to see whats in our codex.

We don't have anything really useful to talk about now because the only good units in our entire codex are Boyz, Weirdboyz, Stormboyz, Ghaz and a lot of filler stuff that isn't as good as those options but can be taken.

Then maybe make another thread for speculation?

You're right the consensus is Boyz + Weirdboyz + stuff. But there are lists out there that are still doing interesting things and this thread is still having interesting discussions. 8th is still in its infancy, strategy and meta wise, they are FAQing and errataing almost on a weekly basis. If you've given up on the effectiveness of Orkz that's fine, but I'm here to try to maximise what we've got.

Had a game today. Flash Gitz and Dakkajet did some work and stood out as decent shooting units with BS 4+ and good AP. Boyz obviously put my opponent on his back and Weirdboy was all-star as well. Just a quick side note, I hate how cheap storm shields are on multi-wound models! Total BS

SemperMortis wrote:
What would you guys like to see for shoota boyz as far as a buff to make them good?

What about this special ability:

Grot target practice: Whenever a unit of gretchin is within 1" of an enemy model, the gretchin can be targeted by friendly Ork shooting attacks. Apply hits normally to the gretchin, but apply all misses as successful hits on any enemy units within 1" of the gretchin.


That way any Ork can have BS of 3+ at the expense of lots of grots.

And you can save some grots if you advance and shoot

 Jidmah wrote:


So, how are nobz working for you guys?

I started playing 6 of them with big choppas (or 5 plus an ammo runt if I was short on points) in a trukk shared with 5 tankbustas and a bomb squig to dispose of an anti tank unit that has both melee and shooting. 5 tankbustas didn't menage to do their job pretty much eveytime while nobz were decent at melee but not superstars. I ended up with 2x5 tankbustas in the same trukk, cheaper and more effective for the purpose I needed. I'm currently not fielding nobz anymore but they're not terrible, they just don't fit my list which has BW full of boyz as melee units and trukks with bustas as shooty ones. I can drop 1 KMK and 5 bustas in order to spare the points for 5-6 nobz again though, maybe I will give them another try.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

I really want this new codex to buff about 3/4ths of the entire current index, give us GOOD clan rules and not utterly nerf the one good thing we have right now which is boyz.

All my orks are death skulls so I hope to gork we get something decent. Since death skulls are based around tech and luck, I can guess it'll be something like better saves on vehicles or extra rerolls.

Maybe a 6+ invulnerable save from the lucky blue paint?

I'm somewhat optimistic about the clan abilities, just because the CSM ones are pretty good. Some seem to be better than others, but I don't think that any of them are punishments in the guise of benefits like the orks seem to often get.

a 6++ would be terrible considering we get at 5++ from the KFF. Maybe a 6+ FNP would be ok, especially if it stacked with the pain boy, and worked for vehicles.

I think that the best loadout for nobs is a big choppa and nine boyz as ablative wounds. A nob with big choppa and ammo runt is 30 points, whereas a nob with bigchoppa and nine boyz is 69 points. More expensive yes, but the boyz can deal out a lot more dakka than the ammo runt. They can soak up more damage too

Death Skulls = -1 to hit because of lucky blue paint making the Orks think (therefore actually) the enemy are missing them

Grots hit on a 4+. Compared to the orks, they already are sharpshooters
KMK's and the like are basically giant ork sniper rifles. Cheap, and have potential for serious damage. Grot's belonging to the artillery units can eat up multi damage weapons nicely, which I find gives them unexpected lifespan.

I have had lots of fun recently with Kommandos and Wartrakks/Buggies as a large part of a first turn base charge list.

All buggies have ere' we go for that charge reroll, which I find to be massive. T5 6W, 4 hits on 3+ in CC, not bad for only 10 points more than a min squad of kommandos. They are mostly great, cheap screens to soak up overwatch. If they live, are serious headaches when mixed among 60+ kommandos
I love this is possible <3
Are you guys having any luck/fun with first turn charge lists?

 Frozocrone wrote:
Death Skulls = -1 to hit because of lucky blue paint making the Orks think (therefore actually) the enemy are missing them

Or the bullets hit them in the blue parts that they don't really need anyway.

Prisoner_of_Imagination wrote:
Grots hit on a 4+. Compared to the orks, they already are sharpshooters
KMK's and the like are basically giant ork sniper rifles. Cheap, and have potential for serious damage. Grot's belonging to the artillery units can eat up multi damage weapons nicely, which I find gives them unexpected lifespan.

I have had lots of fun recently with Kommandos and Wartrakks/Buggies as a large part of a first turn base charge list.

All buggies have ere' we go for that charge reroll, which I find to be massive. T5 6W, 4 hits on 3+ in CC, not bad for only 10 points more than a min squad of kommandos. They are mostly great, cheap screens to soak up overwatch. If they live, are serious headaches when mixed among 60+ kommandos
I love this is possible <3
Are you guys having any luck/fun with first turn charge lists?

1) The grot crew and artillery piece are different units after deployment. The crew cannot eat up damage that targets the gun.

2) How do you charge first turn with a wartrakk? There is, to my knowledge, no way of advancing and charging for vehicles? Or am I mistaken here?

pismakron wrote:

Prisoner_of_Imagination wrote:
Grots hit on a 4+. Compared to the orks, they already are sharpshooters
KMK's and the like are basically giant ork sniper rifles. Cheap, and have potential for serious damage. Grot's belonging to the artillery units can eat up multi damage weapons nicely, which I find gives them unexpected lifespan.

I have had lots of fun recently with Kommandos and Wartrakks/Buggies as a large part of a first turn base charge list.

All buggies have ere' we go for that charge reroll, which I find to be massive. T5 6W, 4 hits on 3+ in CC, not bad for only 10 points more than a min squad of kommandos. They are mostly great, cheap screens to soak up overwatch. If they live, are serious headaches when mixed among 60+ kommandos
I love this is possible <3
Are you guys having any luck/fun with first turn charge lists?

1) The grot crew and artillery piece are different units after deployment. The crew cannot eat up damage that targets the gun.

2) How do you charge first turn with a wartrakk? There is, to my knowledge, no way of advancing and charging for vehicles? Or am I mistaken here?

2.) Buggies/Trakks have "outflank" so they can appear on any board edge more than 9" from the enemy, so as along as your opponent is withing 9" from some point on a table edge you can assault turn 1.

It is entirely possible for orks to design an army where almost everything can assault turn 1. At 2k points you can easily get 180 orks into charge range if you use a bunch of kommandos. That is without really min-maxing for Kommando drops. Min maxing for drops can get you 220 Orks charging turn 1. It isn't a hugely effective list, but you could do it.

Grimskul wrote:Did you have any KFF protection in your list?

Nope, actually no protection at all. Mad Dok Grotsnik was switched out for a second warphead so I could get another CP for fielding a vanguard. The second warphead killed five noise marines and seven daemonettes, but I also lost a ton of boyz to AP-1 shooting. Still not sure which one would have been better.
Their protection came mostly from two huge blobs being closer to the enemy and lootaz being more dangerous and easier to kill. At first the enemy players shot their defiler and soul grinder at them, but after all their shooting killed four gretchin and single stabba nob, they aimed their gunz at easier to kill targets.

The whole list looked like this (1500 points):

I've tried footslogging nobz before (admittedly the first time was using power rating so it's probably not a good indicator of their effectiveness) and they absolutely lit up a terminator squad that tried to assault them with kombi skorchas and the big choppas in the squad did some good work after they were properly engaged. The ammo runts are definitely a must-take, though I debate the usefulness of the power stabbas compared to taking normal choppas, given that I face against daemons and harlequins moreso than MEQ. But even against MEQ the stabbas seem to be overkill since a normal Nob squad should crush most SM units short of thunder shield termies which have a 3+ invuln anyways.

I didn't know what I would be facing, but yeah it felt like paying 3 points to be worse against daemons. However, the AP -2 was very helpful against the daemon princes and vehicles, as it doubles the wounds that actually get to deal damage.

I went for Killsaws rather than PK's for the extra AP and reliability to inflict 2 wounds per hit, I think its worth the extra cost to make sure they do the max amount of damage possible.

Agree, 3 points for another AP -1 is a steal. The models were equipped with klaws, so I went with that. I didn't miss the saws though, with two klaws and a banner nob nearby, you have a high chance to roll average damage or better anyways, and the extra AP doesn't do anything to stuff with 5++ saves.

So far (using points), my Nobz are made of 4 big choppas, 2 killsaws and any other Nobz that I can fit into the unit have just choppas and shootas (maybe a kombi-skorcha if I have points leftover).

The thing is the 4 big choppas are 24 points over a stabba nob, you might as well field a seventh nob instead.
I gave the list lots of thought before fielding it - the reason boyz are great because you get a wound for 6 points. Stabba nobz are 3 wounds for 24, but you have a 4+ save on two of those wounds, which is only slightly worse against AP-1 than boyz. In exchange you get the ability to field two PK in one unit and have the rest of the unit strike with a decent AP. Since I find myself struggling to take out tough units, I wanted to give it a shot.
I also thought about fielding 6 BC instead (54 points of weaponry instead of 62) but I wanted to see how PKs fare and was lacking the models as most of my BC nobz have been promoted to squad leaders. Might try this next time.

I haven't used them in any mech lists yet, are they worth it in those lists or is just too many eggs in one basket?

The unit I fielded was 188 points, that's not that many eggs
I don't have a decent game with BW nobz to show yet though, either the games ended early or something weird happened and the results were skewed because of that (like a librarian blowing up turn 2 and taking out half the fire base).

JohnU wrote:Ammo runts make the unit. 4 points to eat those multi-damage shots is essential. I load them out like Grimskul, a couple killsaws and BCs for the rest, keeps them relatively cheap and solid damage output. I'm not against stabbas or slugga/choppa, it just doesn't fill a role I need.

I don't think they're tough enough to walk though. Wheels or Jumping for me. Even an extra turn in a Trukk helps a lot.

Well, a unit of boyz ist 180 for 31 wounds. A unit of nobz is 210 for 30 wounds, with 20 of them having a 4+ save. If boyz are good enough to walk, so are nobz. They are basically 'ard boyz for 30 extra points - you just need to keep their equipment cheap enough so that shooting boyz instead of them is an actual option for your opponent.
I followed the advice I read on this thread and put all single damage wounds that I could roll a 4+ or 5+ save for on nobz instead of killing gretchin right away. Worked like a charm - even SemperMortis' ultimate nightmare, the Lascannon Predator, started shooting lootaz instead of nobz because he was sick of blowing up 4 point gretchin with 25 point guns, while half the bolter rounds bounced of the 4+ armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breng77 wrote:
It is entirely possible for orks to design an army where almost everything can assault turn 1. At 2k points you can easily get 180 orks into charge range if you use a bunch of kommandos. That is without really min-maxing for Kommando drops. Min maxing for drops can get you 220 Orks charging turn 1. It isn't a hugely effective list, but you could do it.

You still need 9" to make those charges, and if your opponent is not a complete idiot, he will force you away from his valuable units through deployment. By now everybody is expecting Da Jump with 30 boyz in turn 1.
In my game yesterday (Search and Destroy deployment) there was no place in their deployment zone of place even a single kopta.

pismakron wrote:

Prisoner_of_Imagination wrote:
Grots hit on a 4+. Compared to the orks, they already are sharpshooters
KMK's and the like are basically giant ork sniper rifles. Cheap, and have potential for serious damage. Grot's belonging to the artillery units can eat up multi damage weapons nicely, which I find gives them unexpected lifespan.

I have had lots of fun recently with Kommandos and Wartrakks/Buggies as a large part of a first turn base charge list.

All buggies have ere' we go for that charge reroll, which I find to be massive. T5 6W, 4 hits on 3+ in CC, not bad for only 10 points more than a min squad of kommandos. They are mostly great, cheap screens to soak up overwatch. If they live, are serious headaches when mixed among 60+ kommandos
I love this is possible <3
Are you guys having any luck/fun with first turn charge lists?

1) The grot crew and artillery piece are different units after deployment. The crew cannot eat up damage that targets the gun.

2) How do you charge first turn with a wartrakk? There is, to my knowledge, no way of advancing and charging for vehicles? Or am I mistaken here?

Good point about the Mek Guns. The way I was interpreting "From that point on each Mek Gun and each 5-model
group of Grot Gunners acts as a single unit," was that the grots and the mek gun are a single unit :S.. Still Shaking off some habits from 7th edition
Thanks for correcting me! :
Yes Buggies and Trakks had "outflank" called "outriders" now that allows them to deploy 9" away, but they have to be touching a table edge.

It actually looks really cool on the table to have a unit of warbuggies on each flank with the kommandos deploying in between them. Granted thats not always the best deployment for every mission but... pretty

For rolling the 9, its roughly 27% chance to hit at least a 9 on 2D6. Given that we have a 2dice reroll, or a single command point reroll, you could, hopefully (if not reasonably) assume that 50% of your charging units get in.

Smart players will force you to deploy only on infront of them ( if possible), hiding their juicy targets, but starting the turn off killing things is also good. Many high value targets rely on support units. In my thought, if they are a gun line list hiding their high value tanks, we are going to get shot at anyways, so Id rather the chance of having my own mini-assualt phase alpha strike to start things off. Also, reducing the volume of shots coming your way from chaff units helps a lot. Expensive targets have a chance of being kitted out to deal with vehicles, as opposed to the quantity of boys the orks can provide, not always tho.. just saying



Just some thoughts, thank you guys for replying!