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Zomnivore wrote:
What is the best loadout for nobs in trukks?

Like how many nobs do you take vrs grots etc.

I'd rather take nobz over tankbustas because they have a plastic kit.

Nobz still work best with ammo runts effectively taped to the front of their chest as ablative wounds, so I would say ideally, around 6 nobz with 6 ammo runts to fill up the transport capacity. Generally speaking, Big Choppas are the one of the best weapons and relatively cost efficient choice for Nobz squads since they want to be thrown at units that Boyz have more issues with, which are upper bracket toughness multi-wound models. You can play around with the wargear a bit, but it largely depends on your meta. If you face off against a lot of MEQ, power stabbas may be worth the investment. If you're facing mainly squishies like guardsmen or tau, big choppas will suffice (hell, normal choppas work fine too if you're short on points). I would only go for one power klaw/killsaw per 5-6 nobz, simply because they aren't the go-to weapon they used to be. Other weapons like the kombi-skorcha and rokkit IMO only work in Power Rating games since otherwise they're too expensive and are unlikely to contribute once the opponent knows what they're armed with.

 koooaei wrote:
But keep in mind that all this options still require a solid core to function. And solid core are boyz, stormboyz and characters. That's probably how GW intended it. But the problem is that the core is so much better than the rest that you can play with 'just' core and it will often be more effective.

If the person says that: "i loose 95% games with my battlewagons, mek gunz and tankbustas" what else can we suggest other than "take more boyz and stormboyz or play casual games"? Unfortunately, you can't just mesh average units together and get a strong list out of it. Not with orks. Not at the moment.

I totally agree with this. I personally bring no less than 90 boyz and 30 stormboyz. I'm really attacking the nuanced position of being defeatist about your options. It's easy to be dismissive and stop experimenting because efficiency-wise boyz are the best. I'm not arguing with that. But as the meta shifts, the game evolves, LOS and objectives in tournaments change, then so do our considerations of what is good and how/where to experiment. The fall back of "boyz+HQ or nothing" is not a healthy discussion, and in my opinion, far too common in these forums.

For example, the meta is shifting toward horde, green-tide will suffer (or already is) as weapon load-outs compensate for that. As we all stick to our "boyz or nothing" strategy we will lose ranks, and drop off major tournament positions because we are not considering alternatives, I don't think we are having that discussion here. However, I've noticed you are often talking about what type of objective game people are playing (recommending at least play Maelstrom missions) when they are complaining about Ork effectiveness, which I think is a really useful thing to discuss. Unfortunately next to you, there are people telling that same person "180+ boyz or nothing".

Zomnivore wrote:
What is the best loadout for nobs in trukks?

Like how many nobs do you take vrs grots etc.

I'd rather take nobz over tankbustas because they have a plastic kit.

5 or 6 all with big choppas and all with ammo runts, some people use power stabbas but I never considered nobz as a an infantry unit.

I prefer tankbustas as anti tank, and actually we do have a plastic kit since tankbustas are basically boyz with rokkit launchas. They're also extremely easy to convert by mixing useless spared combi rokkits with burnas, sluggas or shootas. There are lots of arms with bombs in the boyz and stormboyz kits.

I'm currently thinking about scratch building some kans. I've never owned them and so I have zero experience with kans, only faced them sometimes in previous edition. At 60ish points per kan they seem utterly expensive, I'd like to ask what's their better loadout? Rokkits seem the obvious choice but artilley and tankbustas are clearly better, so I'm stuck with KMBs and grotzookas. Grotzookas don't look great on paper but I actually lack some ranged anti infantry and I'm tempted. KMBs really attract me though.

Zomnivore wrote:
What is the best loadout for nobs in trukks?

Like how many nobs do you take vrs grots etc.

I'd rather take nobz over tankbustas because they have a plastic kit.

I like the idea of combi skorchas. Some people write them of as too expensie, but I think a handfull of nobs with skorchas (and some extra runts in case the trukk dies, to eat the casualties), could be a great way to clear out infantry. They are probably better than burna boyz at least. 5 of them with runts are not that expensive at about 200 points. and with s5 and auto hits they can also scratch some tougher targets when needed.
If you like skorchas as weapons I thinks nobz are the cheapest and easiest way to get many of them, even though it is still an expensive unit.

 Blackie wrote:
I'm currently thinking about scratch building some kans. I've never owned them and so I have zero experience with kans, only faced them sometimes in previous edition. At 60ish points per kan they seem utterly expensive, I'd like to ask what's their better loadout? Rokkits seem the obvious choice but artilley and tankbustas are clearly better, so I'm stuck with KMBs and grotzookas. Grotzookas don't look great on paper but I actually lack some ranged anti infantry and I'm tempted. KMBs really attract me though.

Keep in mind that grotzookas are heavy and thus get -1 to hit when moving. Big Shootas are pretty much strictly better if you just want to kill infantry.

KMB are okayish since they have decent AP and the mortal wound helps as often as it hurts. If you manage to get multiple damaged kanz, you can split wounds between them 5th edition style. Just make sure that you have two CP ready when three kanz blow in one turn
D3 damage is what makes them mediocre though. They are good at killing stuff with one or two wounds, but really doesn't perform well against anything with 3+ wounds or a 4++ save (or better). In the end you still get one shot per kan, you are not going to wipe out a squad of hellblasters with those even if you manage to wound three.

In my experience rokkits are the best though. Fixed 3 damage is great when you hit on 4+, you wound most vehicle on 3+. Every single rokkit that goes past a save will hurt, 3 rokkits hits are far from impossible and take out many things in this game.

No matter what you pick, magnetize those kanz though. They are by far the easiest model in the game to magnetize: just buy circular, flat magnets that fit into the arm sockets, glue another one to the weapon arm, done. Just make sure they all face the same way

Gitdakka wrote:

Zomnivore wrote:
What is the best loadout for nobs in trukks?

Like how many nobs do you take vrs grots etc.

I'd rather take nobz over tankbustas because they have a plastic kit.

I like the idea of combi skorchas. Some people write them of as too expensie, but I think a handfull of nobs with skorchas (and some extra runts in case the trukk dies, to eat the casualties), could be a great way to clear out infantry. They are probably better than burna boyz at least. 5 of them with runts are not that expensive at about 200 points. and with s5 and auto hits they can also scratch some tougher targets when needed.
If you like skorchas as weapons I thinks nobz are the cheapest and easiest way to get many of them, even though it is still an expensive unit.

SO 5 Kombi skorcha nobs are 180 points
10 Burnas are 170 points

so that is 5D6 S5 hits so 17.5 S 5 hits and 1.67 S4 hits
vs 10D3 S4 hits 20 S4 hits

Against T3 (the point at which they would be both the same to wounds and 5+ save

Nobz deal 10.46 unsaved wounds
Burnaz deal 8.89

Both are probably still a bit expensive, but it goes to show just how bad Burnas are

1) Kombiskorchas are wayyy too expensive. Skip them and bring more bodies. In fact this should be the mantra of Ork 8th edition listbuilding: "Skip it and bring more bodies'

2) On Kans I would take rokkit, kmb, big shoota, grotzooka, skorcha in that order of preference. When moving the grotzooka is no better than a big shoota.

3) Big meks and banner nobs buff kans appreciably. Warbosses are also helpful.

4) I love the wound shenanigans om KMB-equipped that Jidmah proposed. It is almost like the old Nob biker wound round robin.

Breng77 wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

Zomnivore wrote:
What is the best loadout for nobs in trukks?

Like how many nobs do you take vrs grots etc.

I'd rather take nobz over tankbustas because they have a plastic kit.

I like the idea of combi skorchas. Some people write them of as too expensie, but I think a handfull of nobs with skorchas (and some extra runts in case the trukk dies, to eat the casualties), could be a great way to clear out infantry. They are probably better than burna boyz at least. 5 of them with runts are not that expensive at about 200 points. and with s5 and auto hits they can also scratch some tougher targets when needed.
If you like skorchas as weapons I thinks nobz are the cheapest and easiest way to get many of them, even though it is still an expensive unit.

SO 5 Kombi skorcha nobs are 180 points
10 Burnas are 170 points

so that is 5D6 S5 hits so 17.5 S 5 hits and 1.67 S4 hits
vs 10D3 S4 hits 20 S4 hits

Against T3 (the point at which they would be both the same to wounds and 5+ save

Nobz deal 10.46 unsaved wounds
Burnaz deal 8.89

Both are probably still a bit expensive, but it goes to show just how bad Burnas are

Why not both? For just 19 points, you can upgrade up to three burnaz to spannaz with kombi-skorchas. Put in a trukk for maximum (in)efficiency.

pismakron wrote:1) Kombiskorchas are wayyy too expensive. Skip them and bring more bodies. In fact this should be the mantra of Ork 8th edition listbuilding: "Skip it and bring more bodies'

The mantra seems to be "skip it and bring more wounds[i]". Not just for orks. The more wounds you have, the more likely you are going to have enough left to punish glass cannon alpha strikes.

3) Big meks and banner nobs buff kans appreciably. Warbosses are also helpful.

I have found that banner nobz don't really help kanz at all. They will ruin elite infantry and small character with or without them and fail to kill vehicles and horde units either way. The nob doesn't enable them to do something they couldn't do before, just bring another kan instead. You gain about the same amount of close combat hits and another shot.

4) I love the wound shenanigans om KMB-equipped that Jidmah proposed. It is almost like the old Nob biker wound round robin.

Pretty much yes. Just don't try this on units of 6 kanz, at some point three or more of them will pop at once and kill all others through moral.

That reminds me, I haven't fielded my nob bikers yet this edition... too bad the biker doc cannot fix them at when moving more than 5", otherwise they might almost be viable

I have 5 kombi nobs for both rokkits and skorchas so I really appreciate you comparing them.

Its good to know that the skorcha nobs aren't terrible compared to burnas

I just liked the look of shooty nobs.

Still got another kit of big choppa nobs to build so I'll have like 10 of those.

I've got some grots I can say are ammo runts I guess.

What did the guy who spammed a grot army in a tournament do with his grots? I'd love to know. It was mentioned earlier that he'd placed high in a tournament.

What are pros and cons of Choppas vs. Shootas? How do you use your Choppa Booyz and your Shoota boyz? Who do you Jump (and where) first? Who do you charge or shoot with either? What's the ratio of Choppas to Shootas in your army (and in a unit if you mix them)?

 Blackie wrote:

I'm currently thinking about scratch building some kans. I've never owned them and so I have zero experience with kans, only faced them sometimes in previous edition. At 60ish points per kan they seem utterly expensive, I'd like to ask what's their better loadout? Rokkits seem the obvious choice but artilley and tankbustas are clearly better, so I'm stuck with KMBs and grotzookas. Grotzookas don't look great on paper but I actually lack some ranged anti infantry and I'm tempted. KMBs really attract me though.

I've only tried kanz once in a rather casual game vs necrons. Though, he brought a lot of anti-tank because i warned him i'd play walker wall list. I ran 2 squads of 3 with kustom megablastas and one squad of 3 bigshoota kanz. They performed much better than deff dreads (of which i brought two with bigshootas) and, interestingly enough, better than a gorkanaught cause it got focused down and was wrecked befor it's 2-d turn. Kustom megablastas were pretty ok. Killed a couple immortals when needed, took some wounds of vehicles here and there. They're better than rokkits vs cron vehicles cause they ignore rokkit damage on a roll of 1-2. Bigshootas were pretty meh. The main feature of KMB is that they can bug the wound system like Jidmah said.

All in all, kanz are pretty ok for points when you also have a bunch of relatively slow multi-wound targets on board...like...i don't know...other walkers or mek gunz. Or if you throw them on a flank without a lot of enemy anti-tank as a mix-up fpr ypur boyz. 3 kanz cost like ~30 boyz. They don' feel like pulling this weight but they do take much less space and can concentrate punch which is a good thing. They ARE much better than meganobz for the identical point cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azhday wrote:
What are pros and cons of Choppas vs. Shootas? How do you use your Choppa Booyz and your Shoota boyz? Who do you Jump (and where) first? Who do you charge or shoot with either? What's the ratio of Choppas to Shootas in your army (and in a unit if you mix them)?

Both shootas and choppas have their place. I've tried different approaches. Full choppas, full shootas, mixed squads. Shootas generally have a lower statistical damage output but they can still deal a bit of damage on the move even if you advance. And sometimes you don't even want to engage in combat. Another thing to consider is DaJumping blobs of boyz. Some people prefer to get more shootas to be able to deal more damage emidiately on the land cause there's still ~50% you aren't making a 9" charge and the squad can be set in a suicidal position. Some people prefer to jump sluggas to maximise the damage output if they do make a charge. There is no true winner here. It all depends on battlefield situation, your opponent's army and your own playstyle.

As for me, i've found that 10 shootas+19 choppas and a shoota nob suit my playstyle best. We still need at least some shooting to deal with enemy bauble wraps. And you don't even loose mellee punch from time to time cause back lines are not guaranteed to strike in mellee at all. For me, it's the best of both worlds. Besides, you get the flexibility. If you want to maximise mellee damage, you kill off shootas. If you want to hang back and just sit and ruin, hide, score and you know the enemy is not going to try to engage this squad in mellee, you kill off choppas first.

Azhday wrote:
What are pros and cons of Choppas vs. Shootas?

Well, choppas are more choppy and shootaz are more shooty

Seriously though, choppas usually do a lot more damage, but need to reach combat to do so.

How do you use your Choppa Booyz and your Shoota boyz?

Who do you Jump (and where) first? Who do you charge or shoot with either?

What's the ratio of Choppas to Shootas in your army (and in a unit if you mix them)?

I use all choppas boyz except for one or two jumping units. Since there is a decent chance to fail the charge after jumping, I want to make sure I do some damage at least. Unless impossible I always try to shoot something I'm not going to charge.

Where really depends on the game. If you can get behind your enemies, or they have an exposed flank, do that. Otherwise blocking the way to an objective is always a good idea, jumping the entire unit into terrain with cover might also cause a minor annoyance.

Some people here have reported good results from mixing in shootaz with slugga boyz and removing them as casualties first, and I tend to agree with them. However, I find counting shoota boyz in a boyz mob too troublesome for the few wounds you get. I prefer finishing the game over that.

Kannons... Grot gunners cant be targetted unless they are closest... Good objective campers comparable to sinkrot but less points and spamable. Ill try them

I sincerely hope that I'm not setting up anyone for disappointment, but the apparent trend of letting heavy vehicles fire twice for half moment bodes well for units with the mobile fortress rule. I think that could also be the type of thing to be put into Chapter approved, rather than waiting for the codex.

 Chris521 wrote:
I sincerely hope that I'm not setting up anyone for disappointment, but the apparent trend of letting heavy vehicles fire twice for half moment bodes well for units with the mobile fortress rule. I think that could also be the type of thing to be put into Chapter approved, rather than waiting for the codex.

I actually came here from the Eldar threads to pass on some hope to my Orky brethren. As an Ork and Eldar player, I have been waiting on the Eldar codex for the last few weeks with bated breath, because I knew that if they did a bad job with Eldar (and Tyranids next month) then Orks would likely be getting a shoddy job too.

As far as Traits went, they were pretty much copy/pasted jobs from the Space Marine lists. The usual fare of 6+++ FNP for one Craftworld, -1 to hit outside of 12" for another (these are by far the most powerful two I think), and a couple of odd ones like +1 leadership and reroll 1's on shuriken weapons.

So there's a good chance one Ork Klan will get -1 to hit. Might get some re-rolls on assault weapons, or on certain types like Shootas. Nothing crazy, and not as fluffy as the IG codex was, but it seems like GW are only bothering with a detailed and fluffy job on the Imperial Guard codex. However, they traits aren't terrible, and will at least help.


HOWEVER today we got the big news for Eldar, which I wanted to come here and share as it shows the biggest hope for the future of Orks.

Points. Reductions.

I was expecting drops, but I was expecting them to be minor. 1 or 2 points per model on some infantry, maybe 10 points off a Falcon. Nothing major, some improvements but nothing that will really change much. Wouldn't help Orks a lot.

However, some examples -

Spiritseers HQ was dropped by about 20 points.
Rangers were dropped from 20 ppm to 12 ppm.
Falcons dropped by 50 (!) points.
Jetbikes dropped by about 6 points per model
Dire Avengers dropped by about 6 points per model


A lot of these reductions are 40% cheaper. Imagine that for Orks. A battlewagon 50 points cheaper. Or Meganobs 25% less than they are now. It's actually possible, as GW actually are making such large changes to units that needed them.

Stratagems also become important. Infiltrating units for 1CP is now a common thing, and Orks are likely to get it. Things like being able to fire tank weapons twice if they don't move are likely too. Imagine what they might do with a Loota or Flash Gitz stratagem along these lines.

So yeh, we might have to wait until well into 2018 for these changes (unless Chapter Approved throws some previews our way with a few points changes), but I wanted to come spread the hope I have.

Makes me glad I started on that Looted Maulerfiend conversion last week

So there's a good chance one Ork Klan will get -1 to hit

Fingers crossed on -1 to hit blood axes

What do you guys think what ork units will get stratagems specific to them and what those stratagem could be?

Please start a new thread (or dig up one of the existing ones) for wishlisting. I know this is pretty much an ork chatroom, but it's still supposed to be about tactics.

There is a with ork 5+ bs shooting if armies like alaitoc are filled with -2 to hit units.

This means orks do not get to shoot ever outside of 12in. There better be a strategem that boosts bs by +1 like the Cadian astra militarum strategem.

I also think blood axe will get -1 to hit outside of 12in. Not sure how that helps bloodaxe kommandoes that want to deploy just over 9in to charge first turn or use thier burnas but whatever.

gungo wrote:
I also think blood axe will get -1 to hit outside of 12in. Not sure how that helps bloodaxe kommandoes that want to deploy just over 9in to charge first turn or use thier burnas but whatever.

Kommandos aren't the only unit that benefits from deploying in choice positions/outside the deployment zone - Lootas, Flash Gitz, Tanksbustas; there's lots of things that could use advance deployment into terrain/cover, to get better firing positions+survivability.

gungo wrote:
There is a with ork 5+ bs shooting if armies like alaitoc are filled with -2 to hit units.

This means orks do not get to shoot ever outside of 12in. There better be a strategem that boosts bs by +1 like the Cadian astra militarum strategem.

There might also be something like "orks don't aim they simply shoot." making them immune to modifiers.

I also think blood axe will get -1 to hit outside of 12in. Not sure how that helps bloodaxe kommandoes that want to deploy just over 9in to charge first turn or use thier burnas but whatever.

It will definitely helps blood axe battlewagons and walkers. Luckily my entire army is already painted in camouflage colors

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:
There is a with ork 5+ bs shooting if armies like alaitoc are filled with -2 to hit units.

This means orks do not get to shoot ever outside of 12in. There better be a strategem that boosts bs by +1 like the Cadian astra militarum strategem.

There might also be something like "orks don't aim they simply shoot." making them immune to modifiers.

I could see that being for any infantry with with guns, but any git in a tank is gona know hes gotta try a bit harder. But i can see lootas for example just blazing away for the kek of it.

 Dojo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:
There is a with ork 5+ bs shooting if armies like alaitoc are filled with -2 to hit units.

This means orks do not get to shoot ever outside of 12in. There better be a strategem that boosts bs by +1 like the Cadian astra militarum strategem.

There might also be something like "orks don't aim they simply shoot." making them immune to modifiers.

I could see that being for any infantry with with guns, but any git in a tank is gona know hes gotta try a bit harder. But i can see lootas for example just blazing away for the kek of it.

I can't remember where I saw/heard it, but I have a vague memory of a stratagem or relic or something that said that a certain unit could only be hit on 6's regardless of modifiers (for that phase, or something). Like I said, cant remember where this was, so it might have just been a rumoured power and not a real one.

However, if true, it would follow that Orks might have a power (or even a trait) that said "Ork unit always hit on a 6+, regardless of modifiers"

In that case, they can keep that trait and give us something else please.

Orks lose 50% of their shooting to -1 hit modifiers (which are all over the place), while all other armies just lose 25% or 33%, so our shooting units need some sort of help with that.

 Jidmah wrote:
In that case, they can keep that trait and give us something else please.

Orks lose 50% of their shooting to -1 hit modifiers (which are all over the place), while all other armies just lose 25% or 33%, so our shooting units need some sort of help with that.

Yes, they lose 50% of shooting to -1 modifiers. But they lose 100% to -2 modifiers. Except in my suggestion, they'd still be shooting at 6+ so they'd only lose 50% still.

It would only be a stratagem though, not a trait, as there are only certain specific enemy units that can get as far as a -2 to hit penalty. And it might just as easily say "Choose an Ork unit, they can shoot at their normal BS regardless of modifiers."

Which would be good vs enemies with -1 or -2 to hit modifiers. But would also mean they could shoot after moving with weapons, or even shoot from a moving battlewagon without penalty.

Seems like a pretty good stratagem to me. And very much in the same vein as others that GW have done.

What about just copying the special rule from the Immortal Tesla Carbine:

Moar dakka stratagem. Each hit roll of a 6+ causes 3 hits instead of 1.

It seems like the orks are so bad at hitting anything, and/or don't have the AP, that you have to throw a lot of it downrange to make any kind of impact. If this is true, is there any point to having small squads of anything? Will 5 tankbustas make a dent? Will 5 lootas hit anything? Is it worth spending points on a few vehicle mounted weapons on the Battlewagon? I proxied a single Mek Gun KMK, and it was underwhelming in the damage it did, but I could see 3 of them being a threat.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
It seems like the orks are so bad at hitting anything, and/or don't have the AP, that you have to throw a lot of it downrange to make any kind of impact. If this is true, is there any point to having small squads of anything? Will 5 tankbustas make a dent? Will 5 lootas hit anything? Is it worth spending points on a few vehicle mounted weapons on the Battlewagon? I proxied a single Mek Gun KMK, and it was underwhelming in the damage it did, but I could see 3 of them being a threat.

5 tankbustas will hit twice, and wound once, so will damage 1 thing per turn. So They'll do 3 damage per turn to a vehicle. This is pretty much their best result.

pismakron wrote:
What about just copying the special rule from the Immortal Tesla Carbine:

Moar dakka stratagem. Each hit roll of a 6+ causes 3 hits instead of 1.

This idea would only work assuming that we got a racial rule that others were mentioning, which is ignoring negative modifiers to shooting. Otherwise the plethora of -1 to hit rules coming in will neuter this idea too easily.

As far as actual tactics go, so far I've heard that Kanz and Gorkanauts are decent for a Dred Mob style list. I haven't heard too much about Meka Dreads so far though. IMO, they are a very good alternative compared to taking deff dredz or if you want a more shooty element to your walker wall. Since they're BS4+ and they don't suffer the -1 penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons, this means that their guns (of which the rattler kannon is the best IMO) can actually do something and their built in "not FNP" Ramshackle Monster gives them a way to survive nastier CC weapons unlike other walkers in our list. They're basically what the Morkanaut should have been. Personally, I go for the KFF if I'm running one, since it's larger size means it can cover more on one flank than a normal Big Mek would be able to do. If you're running more than one though, it's better to opt for the mega-charga to save costs.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Will 5 tankbustas make a dent? Will 5 lootas hit anything? Is it worth spending points on a few vehicle mounted weapons on the Battlewagon?

No, no and no. Ork shooting is poor. Our damage comes from melee, smite and shooting, ordered by decreasing importance. For shooting I favour shoota-boyz over anyting else, but warbikers and killa kans are also ok. Tankbustas are fine in a trukk or a squig.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

pismakron wrote:
What about just copying the special rule from the Immortal Tesla Carbine:

Moar dakka stratagem. Each hit roll of a 6+ causes 3 hits instead of 1.

This idea would only work assuming that we got a racial rule that others were mentioning, which is ignoring negative modifiers to shooting. Otherwise the plethora of -1 to hit rules coming in will neuter this idea too easily.

Not really. -2 to shooting is pretty rare and will cripple the dakka of much shootier factions than orks. And unlike tau or guard we will still have our main weapon: Excellent close combat.