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I love Dakka dakka dakka strat. I'm thinking about putting it on some flash gitz for some added damage.

You pop the asset and then shoot with the flash gitz. You hit on 4+/5+. Any 6 generates more shots. You can boost this some more by putting Badrukk nearby to reroll 1's. Getting you another chance to get a 6. Then you get to roll add see if you get to shoot again with the flash gitz. If it goes off, you get to do this all over again Flash gitz are still under the effect of the dakka strat.

The relic can be really cool to use. I'm thinking warboss in ma with power klaw and big chopa then change out for the relic. Makes him kind of like a chapter master with power fist and lighting claw.

So, it is pretty much confirmed by gw that Rowboat Girlyman and Celestine will get a price-hike, while our own gorkamorkanaut will get a price reduction. Yeah, and Malefic Lords are now 80 points, which is hilarious.

Any idea what the reduction will be on the Gork/Mork (ballpark)?

To make it competitive? 100 points?

I apologize if this has already been answered (I read the first 35 pages, but haven't finished this thread yet), as I can't seem to find a "search this thread" option, But...

I'm starting a fledgling ork army, with some boyz and gretchins (I don't care if they suck, I loves the grotz!). I'm bashing some toys into a trukk for the boyz and a battlewagon for the gretchin.

Setting aside whether gretchin in a battlewagon makes sense tactically or not (they built it, it's THEIR wagon, and they're not giving it up), if you DID have a battlewagon full of gretchin, what equipment would you put on it? I'm modelling it with a deff-rolla (just because that looks cool, and the farm-toy happened to have a roller I can use) so that leaves the choice of big shootas vs rockits (maybe a mixture?) and kannon/lobber/zapp gun.

I also have a piece from a little back-hoe that could easily become a grabbin-klaw if it's worth adding.

On the trukk the question is shoota vs rockit, and is a wreckin' ball worth it? (that same back-hoe piece could also become a wreckin' ball, and since it only costs $1 I can go get another if I want both a klaw for the wagon and a ball for the trukk)

If we are not caring about tactics the answer is whatever you want to put on it. At the moment my answer is typically nothing but a deff rolla. I would suggest waiting a week or 2 and seeing what changes are in chapter approved because the "optimal" load out may well be different when points change.

It's not so much that I don't care about tactics, but that I'm insisting on a wagon-o-grotz, and within that boundary i'd like to minimize the suck, if that makes sense? It will be a bit before I get as far as mounting weapons anyways, I'm still constructing the wagon/trukk beds, and can probably make magnetized weapon mounts (or at least make the mounts weapon-agnostic and wait to glue on a gun/rockit once the new info comes out)

"There is no such thing as too much dakka"

Love it. It's not the best but it's fluffy and will probably get even better with Bad Moon Klan Speshulities.

Coh Magnussen wrote:
I apologize if this has already been answered (I read the first 35 pages, but haven't finished this thread yet), as I can't seem to find a "search this thread" option, But...

I'm starting a fledgling ork army, with some boyz and gretchins (I don't care if they suck, I loves the grotz!). I'm bashing some toys into a trukk for the boyz and a battlewagon for the gretchin.

Setting aside whether gretchin in a battlewagon makes sense tactically or not (they built it, it's THEIR wagon, and they're not giving it up), if you DID have a battlewagon full of gretchin, what equipment would you put on it? I'm modelling it with a deff-rolla (just because that looks cool, and the farm-toy happened to have a roller I can use) so that leaves the choice of big shootas vs rockits (maybe a mixture?) and kannon/lobber/zapp gun.

I also have a piece from a little back-hoe that could easily become a grabbin-klaw if it's worth adding.

On the trukk the question is shoota vs rockit, and is a wreckin' ball worth it? (that same back-hoe piece could also become a wreckin' ball, and since it only costs $1 I can go get another if I want both a klaw for the wagon and a ball for the trukk)

Hey!

I'd say short range stuff for the BW since you'll want the 20 grots to shoot (12") at 3+ BS. So Deffrolla and.... hmm ... only Deffrolla?

For the trukk, it may change because of the points changes so I'd say magnetize them or wait for the update. I converted all my big shootas into rokkit launchas in the last few years since BS and RL were the same cost. Now RL are more expensive... As for the wrecking ball, personally I'm not sure if it's worth it (even if it's only 3 pts). I mean, you won't hit anyway... When in doubt, magnetize?

Hmm, and regarding the Dakka Dakka Dakka stratagem, 20 grots would get extra shots on 5-6, so that means 33% more shots (compared to 16.7% for the other units). It is still bad compared to other statagems, but...

Coh Magnussen wrote:
It's not so much that I don't care about tactics, but that I'm insisting on a wagon-o-grotz, and within that boundary i'd like to minimize the suck, if that makes sense? It will be a bit before I get as far as mounting weapons anyways, I'm still constructing the wagon/trukk beds, and can probably make magnetized weapon mounts (or at least make the mounts weapon-agnostic and wait to glue on a gun/rockit once the new info comes out)

Wagon with only Deffrolla and bunch of Grots inside would be hillarious. Just charge with Battlewagon into some infantry and try to run them over while Grots shoot cose Pistols can shoot while in CC. You just need to count Grots as Pistols added to BW and not BW as a transport for Grots xD

Evolution of Ork Players since 5th edition.

5th edition: I hope we get a new codex to help fix these problems.

6th Edition: god I hope we get a new codex, we are unplayable at this point

7th edition (Release): ohh thank god! We got a new codex....it's not that great...but maybe GW is toning down the game!!

7th Edition (Necron/SM released): Ah feth. We better get a supplement to help us.

7th edition (first supplement and Red Waaagh); This is still mostly crap, they better fix this and give us something competitive.

7th edition (2nd supplement and Wazbom): alright time to pack it in. Maybe 8th will be able to fix these issues.

8th edition release: well it's not great but boyz aren't terrible....but that's about it, maybe we will get one of the 1st 10 codexs and some buffs!

8th edition after all 2017 releases: Maybe chapter approved will help

8th edition after sneak preview: *we are here.


If you really think at this point GW knows what they are doing with the Ork army then you must be the most happy go lucky person in the world

I just hope they make ork shooting fun again.

The big mek with shokk attack gun lost a lot of power and fun, and deserves to either be a good option for shooting, or fun again.

Zomnivore wrote:
I just hope they make ork shooting fun again.

The big mek with shokk attack gun lost a lot of power and fun, and deserves to either be a good option for shooting, or fun again.

I had a bit of an idea about that the other day. What if we took the Stompa Supa-Gatler's rule "Psycho-Dakka-Blasta" rule and made it an army wide-special rule? Just change a few words around of course.

An Ork unit can fire its weapons more than once in your Shooting phase. To fire it's weapons a second time, roll a D6; on a 2+, the unit can make the attack. On a 1, the unit's ammo has been expended and their weapons can no longer be used for the rest of the battle.
To fire their weapons a third time in your Shooting phase, roll a D6; on a 5+, you can make the attack. On a 4 or less, the unit's ammo has been expended, and their weapons can no longer be used for the rest of the battle.

Now, this would have to come alongside points drops for many Ork shooting units. But it's fun and fluffy, gives Orks something a bit unique for their shooting phase, and for many units, dumping all their ammo on potentially 3 shooting phases in one turn could be reasonably effective, even if they can't shoot for the rest of the battle.

 Glane wrote:

Zomnivore wrote:
I had a bit of an idea about that the other day. What if we took the Stompa Supa-Gatler's rule "Psycho-Dakka-Blasta" rule and made it an army wide-special rule? Just change a few words around of course.

An Ork unit can fire its weapons more than once in your Shooting phase. To fire it's weapons a second time, roll a D6; on a 2+, the unit can make the attack. On a 1, the unit's ammo has been expended and their weapons can no longer be used for the rest of the battle.
To fire their weapons a third time in your Shooting phase, roll a D6; on a 5+, you can make the attack. On a 4 or less, the unit's ammo has been expended, and their weapons can no longer be used for the rest of the battle.

Now, this would have to come alongside points drops for many Ork shooting units. But it's fun and fluffy, gives Orks something a bit unique for their shooting phase, and for many units, dumping all their ammo on potentially 3 shooting phases in one turn could be reasonably effective, even if they can't shoot for the rest of the battle.

That would be awesome! Gotta keep those rerolls strategems for the unlucky 1s on your second loota shots!

I like to pretend that Bad Moonz Klan rule will be +1 to Ballistic skill and no negative modifiers. Ork shooting might be viable if that were to occur.

Coh Magnussen wrote:


Setting aside whether gretchin in a battlewagon makes sense tactically or not (they built it, it's THEIR wagon, and they're not giving it up), if you DID have a battlewagon full of gretchin, what equipment would you put on it? I'm modelling it with a deff-rolla (just because that looks cool, and the farm-toy happened to have a roller I can use) so that leaves the choice of big shootas vs rockits (maybe a mixture?) and kannon/lobber/zapp gun.

For the battlewagon with grots you want it to be open-topped with a deff-rolla and nothing else. You want it to get stuck in combat, where the 20 grots will be allowed to shoot because they have pistols. And they will hit on a 3+ because of numbers. In fact the new dakka stratagem might be perfect for them, as they will trigger it on a 5+. Maybe this is the solution to Ork shooting?

pismakron wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:


Setting aside whether gretchin in a battlewagon makes sense tactically or not (they built it, it's THEIR wagon, and they're not giving it up), if you DID have a battlewagon full of gretchin, what equipment would you put on it? I'm modelling it with a deff-rolla (just because that looks cool, and the farm-toy happened to have a roller I can use) so that leaves the choice of big shootas vs rockits (maybe a mixture?) and kannon/lobber/zapp gun.

For the battlewagon with grots you want it to be open-topped with a deff-rolla and nothing else. You want it to get stuck in combat, where the 20 grots will be allowed to shoot because they have pistols. And they will hit on a 3+ because of numbers. In fact the new dakka stratagem might be perfect for them, as they will trigger it on a 5+. Maybe this is the solution to Ork shooting?

20 grots in BW. 13 hits (first round), 6 5s, rerolling for 4 more hits.

17 st 3 hits while the deffrolla chews things...would be pretty good if the bw got a point drop.

SemperMortis wrote:
Evolution of Ork Players since 5th edition.

5th edition: I hope we get a new codex to help fix these problems.

6th Edition: god I hope we get a new codex, we are unplayable at this point

7th edition (Release): ohh thank god! We got a new codex....it's not that great...but maybe GW is toning down the game!!

7th Edition (Necron/SM released): Ah feth. We better get a supplement to help us.

7th edition (first supplement and Red Waaagh); This is still mostly crap, they better fix this and give us something competitive.

7th edition (2nd supplement and Wazbom): alright time to pack it in. Maybe 8th will be able to fix these issues.

8th edition release: well it's not great but boyz aren't terrible....but that's about it, maybe we will get one of the 1st 10 codexs and some buffs!

Seems they do know. Just look at how stable things are.
8th edition after all 2017 releases: Maybe chapter approved will help

8th edition after sneak preview: *we are here.


If you really think at this point GW knows what they are doing with the Ork army then you must be the most happy go lucky person in the world

Seems they do know. Just look at how consistent things are.

Jokes aside, we've pretty much always had at least one or two really good competitive builds.

5-th had kan wallz and wagon rushes, also greentide wasn't too bad if not top notch but it pretty much countered the parking lot razorback meta of mid and late 5-th
6-th had nob biker deathstars
7-th had greentide for a short while, fw underpriced stompa and biker spam and than bully boyz
8-th has greentide and it's variations so far

Not that we have had tons of great options but we could pretty much always make a competitive army. It's wrong to say that orks have "always been bad". Look at marines. Their competitive unit percentage is even lower than for orks. Because they have more units. But still.

The biggest insult in that GW post is that they do not even try to acknowledge that orks have a legitimate problem with variety even for fun lists. I've tried comming up with a list that does not make use of weirdboys - because I don't like them fluffwise - and it is really hard to do so, even when my opponent does not play cheesy army.

I've realised that there is more merit in rerolling, say D6 for number of shots for some grot artillery or D3 for lootas than spending 1 CP just to boost number of hits by target infantry unit by ~5%.

That facebook answer was like answering to a "excuse me, the car you sold me has broken conditioning system" with "well, too bad you can't open side windows when you are riding it". The question was a legitimate concern that an opportunity to make gameplay for a specific army more fun is being wasted.

 koooaei wrote:
Seems they do know. Just look at how consistent things are.

Jokes aside, we've pretty much always had at least one or two really good competitive builds.

5-th had kan wallz and wagon rushes, also greentide wasn't too bad if not top notch but it pretty much countered the parking lot razorback meta of mid and late 5-th
6-th had nob biker deathstars
7-th had greentide for a short while, fw underpriced stompa and biker spam and than bully boyz
8-th has greentide and it's variations so far

Not that we have had tons of great options but we could pretty much always make a competitive army. It's wrong to say that orks have "always been bad". Look at marines. Their competitive unit percentage is even lower than for orks. Because they have more units. But still.

Biker nobz was 5th edition, you could even use it in the same list as bw rushes. 6th edition wound allocation removal of cybork and point increase with the codex all but killed them. Some people also had some decent success with Wazzdakka and MSU bikes, plus green tide and footsloggers were different armies (green tide was all boyz, footslogger had lootaz, big guns, koptaz and other things). In total there was bw bash, kan wall, footsloggers, green tide, trukk rush, nob bikers, kult of speed for a total of 7 builds that could expect to do well in tournaments.

Green tide was 6th, the 7th edition supplement update removed that and added it back later. There were also some armies which relied on DLS MA Warbosses you could still make BW rush work before tau and eldar codices dropped.

In 7th, I don't think any ork lists could actually stand against a competitive army, though I take your word for the bully boyz working well. I simply dropped WH40k when I was basically forced to buy 15 MANz (200€) and 5+ mek gunz (150€) to keep playing my army, despite owning over 6000 points of orks already and would do so again. And no, kitbashing is not an option for me.

So in 6th and 7th you had some armies which were not auto-losing you games, but orks have not been in a good shape since we lost our 5th edition codex.

 JawRippa wrote:

I've realised that there is more merit in rerolling, say D6 for number of shots for some grot artillery or D3 for lootas than spending 1 CP just to boost number of hits by target infantry unit by ~5%.

The stratagem increases output by 16.7% That is not great but it is a lot better than 5%. It is pretty much the same as "reroll hit-rolls of 1".

Apart from that, I think we should go easy on the doom and gloom before we have have read Chapter Approved and the Ork Codex in its entirety.

pismakron wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

I've realised that there is more merit in rerolling, say D6 for number of shots for some grot artillery or D3 for lootas than spending 1 CP just to boost number of hits by target infantry unit by ~5%.

The stratagem increases output by 16.7% That is not great but it is a lot better than 5%. It is pretty much the same as "reroll hit-rolls of 1".

Apart from that, I think we should go easy on the doom and gloom before we have have read Chapter Approved and the Ork Codex in its entirety.

Yes, 16.7% of shots, which is okay if a unit has decent ballistic skill. But for orks additional ~16% means roughly 5% increase since only 1/3 of those additional shots will connect. Also I've realised that that stratagem has anti-synergy with the fact that our infantry uses assault weapons and won't work when you are advancing.

pismakron wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

I've realised that there is more merit in rerolling, say D6 for number of shots for some grot artillery or D3 for lootas than spending 1 CP just to boost number of hits by target infantry unit by ~5%.

The stratagem increases output by 16.7% That is not great but it is a lot better than 5%. It is pretty much the same as "reroll hit-rolls of 1".

Apart from that, I think we should go easy on the doom and gloom before we have have read Chapter Approved and the Ork Codex in its entirety.

Re-rolling hit rolls of 1 is also terrible for orks... plus other armies just get it as a bubble on one of their HQs and don't have to pay a CP for one unit.

There simply is no reason to waste a CP on this stratagem unless you're shooting something you really, really need dead with either tank bustas or lootas.

 Jidmah wrote:

Biker nobz was 5th edition, you could even use it in the same list as bw rushes. 6th edition wound allocation removal of cybork and point increase with the codex all but killed them. Some people also had some decent success with Wazzdakka and MSU bikes, plus green tide and footsloggers were different armies (green tide was all boyz, footslogger had lootaz, big guns, koptaz and other things). In total there was bw bash, kan wall, footsloggers, green tide, trukk rush, nob bikers, kult of speed for a total of 7 builds that could expect to do well in tournaments.

Green tide was 6th, the 7th edition supplement update removed that and added it back later. There were also some armies which relied on DLS MA Warbosses you could still make BW rush work before tau and eldar codices dropped.

In 7th, I don't think any ork lists could actually stand against a competitive army, though I take your word for the bully boyz working well. I simply dropped WH40k when I was basically forced to buy 15 MANz (200€) and 5+ mek gunz (150€) to keep playing my army, despite owning over 6000 points of orks already and would do so again. And no, kitbashing is not an option for me.

So in 6th and 7th you had some armies which were not auto-losing you games, but orks have not been in a good shape since we lost our 5th edition codex.

That's correct - 5-th had the most variety of viable builds. But i think you're wrong about 6-th nob bikers not being competitive. Maybe not over the top good but they did quite well in rather competitive metas up until the codex update. Multiple nob biker mini-deathstars + lobbas and msu grots was placing high in tourneys. Have never won anything that i remember but was tough to face.

Do you think it'd be broken if it was houseruled to be "additional shooting for every 6" rather than "additional shot"? Kinda like stratagem for Mordians.

Also he-e-ey, this stratagem of ours is basically a tactic of Tempestus, who get it for free for all army?

 JawRippa wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

I've realised that there is more merit in rerolling, say D6 for number of shots for some grot artillery or D3 for lootas than spending 1 CP just to boost number of hits by target infantry unit by ~5%.

The stratagem increases output by 16.7% That is not great but it is a lot better than 5%. It is pretty much the same as "reroll hit-rolls of 1".

Apart from that, I think we should go easy on the doom and gloom before we have have read Chapter Approved and the Ork Codex in its entirety.

Yes, 16.7% of shots, which is okay if a unit has decent ballistic skill. But for orks additional ~16% means roughly 5% increase since only 1/3 of those additional shots will connect. Also I've realised that that stratagem has anti-synergy with the fact that our infantry uses assault weapons and won't work when you are advancing.

No, it is a 16.7% increase of hits, leading to a 16.7% increase of damage. It is not great, but it is greater than 5%.

pismakron wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

I've realised that there is more merit in rerolling, say D6 for number of shots for some grot artillery or D3 for lootas than spending 1 CP just to boost number of hits by target infantry unit by ~5%.

The stratagem increases output by 16.7% That is not great but it is a lot better than 5%. It is pretty much the same as "reroll hit-rolls of 1".

Apart from that, I think we should go easy on the doom and gloom before we have have read Chapter Approved and the Ork Codex in its entirety.

Yes, 16.7% of shots, which is okay if a unit has decent ballistic skill. But for orks additional ~16% means roughly 5% increase since only 1/3 of those additional shots will connect. Also I've realised that that stratagem has anti-synergy with the fact that our infantry uses assault weapons and won't work when you are advancing.

No, it is a 16.7% increase of hits, leading to a 16.7% increase of damage. It is not great, but it is greater than 5%.

it's a 16.7% to get an extra shot that hits 33.3% of the time leading to a 5.55% damage increase total. Or to 0% if the target is one of the numerous units with -1 to hit.

 koooaei wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 JawRippa wrote:

I've realised that there is more merit in rerolling, say D6 for number of shots for some grot artillery or D3 for lootas than spending 1 CP just to boost number of hits by target infantry unit by ~5%.

The stratagem increases output by 16.7% That is not great but it is a lot better than 5%. It is pretty much the same as "reroll hit-rolls of 1".

Apart from that, I think we should go easy on the doom and gloom before we have have read Chapter Approved and the Ork Codex in its entirety.

Yes, 16.7% of shots, which is okay if a unit has decent ballistic skill. But for orks additional ~16% means roughly 5% increase since only 1/3 of those additional shots will connect. Also I've realised that that stratagem has anti-synergy with the fact that our infantry uses assault weapons and won't work when you are advancing.

No, it is a 16.7% increase of hits, leading to a 16.7% increase of damage. It is not great, but it is greater than 5%.

it's a 16.7% to get an extra shot that hits 33.3% of the time leading to a 5.55% damage increase total. Or to 0% if the target is one of the numerous units with -1 to hit.

By that logic shooting twice should only lead to 33% more hits?

A 16.7% increase in number of shots will lead to a 16.7% increase in number of hits, irrespective of BS. Regards

Yeah you're right. That's around 0.28 more dead meq in cover if 30 shootaboyz use this strategem.

 koooaei wrote:
That's correct - 5-th had the most variety of viable builds. But i think you're wrong about 6-th nob bikers not being competitive. Maybe not over the top good but they did quite well in rather competitive metas up until the codex update. Multiple nob biker mini-deathstars + lobbas and msu grots was placing high in tourneys. Have never won anything that i remember but was tough to face.

Right, lobba sniping was a thing. I don't know about the nob stars though, they might have worked until tau, daemons and eldar dropped, but definitely not after that.