Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

thanks for the fast reply appreciated. Any more info on tactic appreciated.

pismakron wrote:

 Yoda79 wrote:
Hi can someone help me with a 1500 superb list for a tour im heading this weekend?

cant have named chars 1500 2 detachments. what is the best i could get any help?

1 PK Warboss
1 PK Painboy
2 Weirdboyz (da jump, warpath)
1 Big Mek + KFF
3 * 30 Boyz, Boss Nob with PK
2*15 Kommandos, Boss Nob with PK, Burnas
3 Rocket buggys
3 KMK

Brigade~1500 points,12CP

Put all of your boyz under the KFF umbrella with the rest of the characters in the middle. Put buggys and Kommandos into reserves. Deploy your KMKs last. On your first turn jump 30 boyz ahead and deepstrike the kommandos, and put the rocket buggys somewhere. Advance with the rest of your boys and all of your characters.

Seems to be missing 3 troop choices to be a Brigade

Looks like 4HQs, 3 elites, 3 Troops, 3 Fast, 3 Heavies. You could drop an HQ and some klaws/ models to get 3 minimum gretchin squads, otherwise this is at best

1 Battalion
1 Other (vanguard, outrider, spearhead)

So 7 CP

Breng77 wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 Yoda79 wrote:
Hi can someone help me with a 1500 superb list for a tour im heading this weekend?

cant have named chars 1500 2 detachments. what is the best i could get any help?

1 PK Warboss
1 PK Painboy
2 Weirdboyz (da jump, warpath)
1 Big Mek + KFF
3 * 30 Boyz, Boss Nob with PK
2*15 Kommandos, Boss Nob with PK, Burnas
3 Rocket buggys
3 KMK

Brigade~1500 points,12CP

Put all of your boyz under the KFF umbrella with the rest of the characters in the middle. Put buggys and Kommandos into reserves. Deploy your KMKs last. On your first turn jump 30 boyz ahead and deepstrike the kommandos, and put the rocket buggys somewhere. Advance with the rest of your boys and all of your characters.

Seems to be missing 3 troop choices to be a Brigade

Looks like 4HQs, 3 elites, 3 Troops, 3 Fast, 3 Heavies. You could drop an HQ and some klaws/ models to get 3 minimum gretchin squads, otherwise this is at best

1 Battalion
1 Other (vanguard, outrider, spearhead)

So 7 CP

Oh yeah, I can see that. I think the best way to go then would be to drop the buggys and get an extra 3*10 boyz for two batallions. If in doubt, bring more boyz. Regards

Today I played 1250, so close to your point range.

3x30 + 1x20ish boyz with BC nobz
KFF big mek and painboy to protect the boyz.
1 kannon just for fun
1xKommandos
4 weirdboys - inside boyz blobs to get at least +3 on smites
Warboss with PK.

For 1500 I would make the last boyz unit full, add one or two more psykers, PKs all around, one more kommandos unit and some more kannons. Can’t do the math now.

Smites from boyz blobs worked pretty well and the horde lasted OK with the KFF + painboy combo

the_scotsman wrote:
So, with the new stratagem and the big price drop for power klaws, would people say that Meganobz are back in action? For 1cp, you can Mob Up a 10-man and 9-man unit of meganobz to create a mega-mob of 19 that you can then drop Warpath and Da Jump on and shoot them straight into the enemy army. Good? I have absolutely no idea. Hilarious? Almost certainly! Certainly a huge points investment, but they will most definitely command more attention and be harder to remove than the usual 30-boy distraction squad I currently pop in.

Other than the obvious mid-game mob consolidation, are there any other fun combos people have thought up for use with the new stratagem?

Looking through the list, you could effectively add 9 to the max squad size to lootas, tankbustas, Kommandos, Stormboyz, Nobz, Meganobz, Burna Boyz, or Flash Gitz. that gets you synergy with Mob Rule, psychic powers and other stratagems. Not quite as bonkers as the 30boyz+9MANZ combo from the rumored version of the stratagem, but still decent. HOw are yall planning on making use of this new tool?

There's a few issues with making that giant unit of MANZ. The first is that whilst you're likely to liquefy anything you make contact with, whatever you kill better be damn worth it, because next turn you're going to be facing a lot of hate. Which leads to the next problem, which is because of the increased firepower available to armies in 8th, putting everything into one big unit tends to be a bad idea. The opponent can then just focus all their firepower into it, and likely remove it a lot of the time. It's why big expensive units are so much worse in 8th; outside of stuff like Baneblades which have godlike firepower, you don't see as many super-heavies as you did before, because many armies have a trivially easy time deleting them (big cheap units on the other hand are great because blasts went away and firepower on anti-infantry didn't go up much but anti-tank firepower got dramatically better).

Anyway, on the subject of MANZ, I did have a surprising amount of success with my MANZ list when I played earlier in the week. But I ran 5 squads of 3 MANZ and used Da Jump to bring them in for sandwich attacks from the rear. Most units can't ignore 3 MANZ showing up next to them.

My problem with 3 MANz squads is that they just aren't that killy anymore. Let me Mathhammer this real quick.

7th:
3 MANz, PK's had 12 attacks on the charge.
Assuming WS 4 vs WS 4, they hit on 4's, meaning 6 hits.
At S8 and AP2, that's 5 dead MEQ and 4 dead TEQ.

8th
3 MANz, PK's have 9 attacks on the charge.
Since they hit on 4's, that's 4.5 hits.
Vs MEQ that's 3 dead MEQ and 2.5 dead TEQ assuming you roll 2 or higher for the damage.

Also considering that MANz are now more expensive and that trukks are more expensive, I cannot justify a unit of 3 MANz vs a unit of 5 nobs with ammo runts. It's a shame, too, because I love using them. My only hope is that our codex fixes them. But until then, I'll just keep using boss nobz.

Disclaimer: I'm three beers into my first free weekend in a month so if my math is off please forgive me.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
My problem with 3 MANz squads is that they just aren't that killy anymore. Let me Mathhammer this real quick.

7th:
3 MANz, PK's had 12 attacks on the charge.
Assuming WS 4 vs WS 4, they hit on 4's, meaning 6 hits.
At S8 and AP2, that's 5 dead MEQ and 4 dead TEQ.

8th
3 MANz, PK's have 9 attacks on the charge.
Since they hit on 4's, that's 4.5 hits.
Vs MEQ that's 3 dead MEQ and 2.5 dead TEQ assuming you roll 2 or higher for the damage.

Also considering that MANz are now more expensive and that trukks are more expensive, I cannot justify a unit of 3 MANz vs a unit of 5 nobs with ammo runts. It's a shame, too, because I love using them. My only hope is that our codex fixes them. But until then, I'll just keep using boss nobz.

Disclaimer: I'm three beers into my first free weekend in a month so if my math is off please forgive me.

Not as killy no. But 3 wounds and 2+ save means your opponent tends to use anti-tank weaponry against them, as opposed to Nobz that can be boltered down fairly easily. I didn't run mine with Trukks either; I just footslogged them, which I did wonder about, but it worked quite well. Having a KFF nearby was handy, and my opponent had no lascannons, but he also had 3 KMK and 3 Kannons to worry about that were pounding him. Also, WAAAGH Banners obviously work fantastically with MANZ, and if I could squeeze another one into my list I probably would.

All I can say is that the MANZ performed much better than I thought they would. If I had the models I'd have given every one of them 2 killsaws; the payoff there is just too big, and the Kustom Shoota is worthless. My advice is to just try them out and see how they go. I was sceptical, but after trying them out I want to run them again.

I think it's my old 7th mentality. MANz missiles were amazing in 7th. If I catered to them more, they probably would do work. I'll experiment with lists to see how I can use them better.

Double killsaw manz were ok before and better now after chapter approved.

I'd play meganobz only with killsaws to be honest, for only 6 more points you'll get +1A and a -1AP basically.

Before CA they were 63 points compared to the 54 which was the price of stock meganobz and IMHO they were too expensive, but 48 compared to 42 looks almost an auto-take for me.

I haven't tried an 8th edition bullyboyz yet, but a unit of 3-5 dudes all with killsaws isn't terrible anymore. I prefer having them embarked though, in a trukk or in a BW joined by 10-12 boyz.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I think it's my old 7th mentality. MANz missiles were amazing in 7th. If I catered to them more, they probably would do work. I'll experiment with lists to see how I can use them better.

Yes, but also in seventh edition the Boss Nob with klaw would absolutely wreck, whereas the boyz in his squad was mostly just tag along wounds. In 8th this is more or less reversed. Charge a rhino with a squad of choppa boyz, and the hailstorm of S4 attacks will do far more damage than the boss Klaw.

In eight edition number of attacks is more important than AP, and AP is more important than S.

That being said, meganobz and boss nobs are improved a lot by the klaw/saw price reduction. And they are hurt less by expensive transports than boyz.

In 7th a unit of bully boyz could easilly one-shot a baneblade. Now a baneblade will overwatch them and than just loose 1/3 of it's wounds. The main difference for pk is that they no longer obliterate vehicles

They no longer strike last, which is a big difference.
Loosing a Meganob before he swung was always a pain.

 koooaei wrote:
In 7th a unit of bully boyz could easilly one-shot a baneblade. Now a baneblade will overwatch them and than just loose 1/3 of it's wounds. The main difference for pk is that they no longer obliterate vehicles

Eight PK nobz with Ghaz and Bruce Banner will one shot a baneblade. And they will fit in a trukk.

Yeah but vehicles, like the baneblade, didn't struck at all in close combat. Another difference is that pks don't instant kill stuff anymore. A warboss with pk could kill a T5 multiwounds model with a strong invuln just with a single hit that went through its saves. Meganobz could instant kill T4 enemies. Now those nasty units can absorb S10+ hit quite better, and they actually have even more wounds now.

I'd be very interested to see how different things would be if PKs were D6 dmg.

 Glane wrote:
I'd be very interested to see how different things would be if PKs were D6 dmg.

Well that is easy to answer. Every PK wielder would do 7/4 times the damage against multiwound stuff.

 Glane wrote:
I'd be very interested to see how different things would be if PKs were D6 dmg.

I suggested this some weeks ago. Orks have always relied on PKs and rokkit spam to mitigate their weak anti-tank capabilities. Since rokkit spam is no longer possible because rokkits themselves as well as their platforms have become too expensive, it's on a PK alone. However, to make a single nob or even warboss dangerous to a vehicle, it needs to do more than 3 damage.

When you charge Thrakka into a vehicle, monster, character or otherwise resilient unit (for example, Centurions) he 'feels' right because every failed save does 3 damage. Four failed saves mean dead target. When I charge a warboss into something, I need to make sure to have shot whatever I want to kill halfway dead already. Nobz and nob characters are not dangerous to vehicles at all, I've had a nob and the two last boyz from his squad tied up by a rhino, because there was no chance in hell that they would actually be able to kill it.

 Jidmah wrote:
I've had a nob and the two last boyz from his squad tied up by a rhino, because there was no chance in hell that they would actually be able to kill it.

This kind of illustrates the situation: A PK-nob will do 1.67 wounds per turn to a rhino, while the two slugga boyz will do a respectable 0.44 wounds per turn to a vehicle. PK nobz are kind of ok now that they are cheap, but they still don't do much. Boyz, on the other hand, are pure awesomeness in large numbers. They will do lots of damage to anything not T8 or Sv 2+.

Could easily do a Lootas squad and have 20 shots firing using a CP to somewhat reliably kill something.

Kommandoes might be pretty good with the new strategies, if not better. Same for Nobz.

New player for orks reporting in after the bundle for christmas.
So is it mandatory to run 90 boyz? Since a batallion is really important and gretchins are awful. Boyz are the only choice. Not running a max squad feels a tad wasteful. Is there a way to not run 90 boys and be ultra competitive?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
New player for orks reporting in after the bundle for christmas.
So is it mandatory to run 90 boyz? Since a batallion is really important and gretchins are awful. Boyz are the only choice. Not running a max squad feels a tad wasteful. Is there a way to not run 90 boys and be ultra competitive?

Not if you want a chance of winning. 90 boyz is minimum. Most runs about 150-180. Regards

So what are transports currently used for mainly as most of them carry up to 20.

Transports - Been running G - Squig/BW with a single truck, mostly for elite protection, they are also great for reducing the number of drops you have for any single units char. or small units. But being so expensive in points Taking < 500 pts in a 2k has been feeling about right...

Played a game of 8th the other day against a DE bird flock + clowns list.
Used 58 shoots boyz with 2 PK Nobz
12 Killa Kanz with big shootas
3 Dakkajets
Deffdread with 4 claws
Waaagh Banner
Painboy
MA Warboss
And 10 grots

1. Shoots Boyz did work with their insane number of melee attacks, volume of dakka, and being disposable fodder when needed.
2. Waaaghbanner is stupidly good. This truely is aura hammer.
3. Painboy helped but I don't think a painboy is very good with specialist units but much better with big blobs of boyz.
4. Kanz in melee are scary good. Waaaghbanner makes them hit reliably they are relatively cheap. Big Shootas on them didn't do jack all and I don't think your getting much more mileage from grotzookas (RIP you beautiful wound spamming beast).
5. Power Klaws sorta suck at killing high wound targets. D3 wounds just doesn't feel like enough when before Klaws would rip a tank half in one round of combat but now it's barely scratching the paint.
6. Dakkajets are garbage at trying to shoot down aircraft.
7. Warboss and Deffdread didn't do much as they lack the number of attacks to really reliably kill things quick enough.

Specialist units feel too expensive while anything you can spam for cheap is good because it's so much to try and mulch through.

Also Dakkajets seem to only need to fly around in a box like movement pattern and they can basically shoot out their rear at anything on the board.

KillerOfMany wrote:
Transports - Been running G - Squig/BW with a single truck, mostly for elite protection, they are also great for reducing the number of drops you have for any single units char. or small units. But being so expensive in points Taking < 500 pts in a 2k has been feeling about right...

Which elites do you usually run?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
New player for orks reporting in after the bundle for christmas.
So is it mandatory to run 90 boyz? Since a batallion is really important and gretchins are awful. Boyz are the only choice. Not running a max squad feels a tad wasteful. Is there a way to not run 90 boys and be ultra competitive?

They're mandatory only in super competitive metas. You can run a dread mob with not a single boy or even a speed freaks list with 60-80 boyz embarked in trukks and BWs and have decent results against anything but tournament lists.

Boyz are very good but mixing styles doesn't work with orks, they can only spam T4, T5 or T8 to be effective. In my experience 90-120 boyz and a few vehicles are worse than a list with only T5 and lesser boyz or dread mobz. I'm referring at 2000 points games since I only play with that budget, in smaller formats things could be completely different.

So greentides with no vehicles at all (just cheap artillery at most) or trukks, buggies, planes, kans, artillery and bikes spam or BWs and naughts spam. A mix with T8 and a few T5 units can also work. FW has other good options as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

KillerOfMany wrote:
Transports - Been running G - Squig/BW with a single truck, mostly for elite protection, they are also great for reducing the number of drops you have for any single units char. or small units. But being so expensive in points Taking < 500 pts in a 2k has been feeling about right...

Which elites do you usually run?

1-2 painboyz with the greentide, sometimes a banner nob, 10-20 tankbustas in mechanized lists, sometimes 5 nobz or 3-5 meganobz always embarked. Kommandos are very popular in greentides, they can be effective in min units or bigger ones, I use both 5 man squads and 15 man ones.

Still, I'm shocked that orks only have 1 viable troop. AdMech has a lot less models but even they have 4 troops choices(2 viable).
This makes every competitive ork list look the same(ish).
I envy Tyranids with their 5 out of 5 viable options.
Some elites should be moved to troops probably.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Still, I'm shocked that orks only have 1 viable troop. AdMech has a lot less models but even they have 4 troops choices(2 viable).
This makes every competitive ork list look the same(ish).
I envy Tyranids with their 5 out of 5 viable options.
Some elites should be moved to troops probably.

Tyranids and AdMech both have a codex, Orks don't. And moving elites to troops wont help. The viable elites and fast attack options we have are essentially variations of boyz. You can get boyz with camouflage, boyz with jump backs or plain boyz. Those are your options.

pismakron wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Still, I'm shocked that orks only have 1 viable troop. AdMech has a lot less models but even they have 4 troops choices(2 viable).
This makes every competitive ork list look the same(ish).
I envy Tyranids with their 5 out of 5 viable options.
Some elites should be moved to troops probably.

Tyranids and AdMech both have a codex, Orks don't. And moving elites to troops wont help. The viable elites and fast attack options we have are essentially variations of boyz. You can get boyz with camouflage, boyz with jump backs or plain boyz. Those are your options.

So what should happen to the troops slot then? Gretchins should become awesome?