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 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Are you saying you want one of our weapons to fire potentially more shots than an Imperial counterpart?! Get out.

Crazy right? I want the Army that coined the term DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA to have more shots then the super elite faction that can only take a fraction of the number of gunz we can.

I need some anti air options for games where I face a guard player who loves spamming valkyries. Are traktor kannons any good anymore or should I just try buying aircraft of my own?

Deff Dreads should get a grapple claw arm that removes the fly keyword on a successful charge!

But in all seriousness probably
Skorchas
KMKs
Tankbustas

We don't really have a reliable option that I am aware of. Ignoring them is usually the suggested method.

 DrGiggles wrote:
I need some anti air options for games where I face a guard player who loves spamming valkyries. Are traktor kannons any good anymore or should I just try buying aircraft of my own?

The correct answer is, we don't have a reliable way to kill flyers, so ignore them as best you can and eliminate his ground forces.

Wierdboyz and burnas are the only way to kill flyers right now.

On the BC vs PK question, I have gotten to the point where I don't buy any special weapons for my nobs, and just use choppa. I agree with whoever said it doesn't make much difference, so I determined why spend the points...

That said I do use the relic BC for my warboss.

So, new to dakka but not to 40k. I've been lurking this thread (almost) the whole way through and I was wondering if anyone could lend any insights on running a walker-heavy army. I know walkers aren't good right now and boyz are just going to be more effective, but I love them and my meta is not super competitive. Currently I run:



thats around 1800 points and i sub in other things as needed. I find the gorkanaut is always great, but typically the dreads die before reaching the enemy and the kans shooting is pretty mediocre. Should I just choose one or the other to spam? At least they tend to soak hits that would otherwise hit the gorkanaut, and if he makes it into combat he's great. Maybe I just need to think of them as distraction carnifexes to save my gorkanaut. Thoughts?

 koooaei wrote:
Wierdboyz and burnas are the only way to kill flyers right now.

Have you actually fired a unit of burnas at an aircraft?

Best case you get 45 hits, 15 wounds, 5 damage and some of them save another wound from some sort of FNP. Next turn they move at least 20" and are out of range.

On less blessed rounds you might not damage the flier at all.

Has anyone tried weirdboy spam in trukks of boyz? I realize that makes the weirdboy 200 points, but the opponent has to chew through 20 wounds before touching him, and he can likely drive up right where you need him for smite.

SemperMortis wrote:

 DrGiggles wrote:
I need some anti air options for games where I face a guard player who loves spamming valkyries. Are traktor kannons any good anymore or should I just try buying aircraft of my own?

The correct answer is, we don't have a reliable way to kill flyers, so ignore them as best you can and eliminate his ground forces.

This. The biggest danger of fliers is that you may be tempted to try and bring them down, fail at it, and then lose the game while you try . You should thank Gork and Mork that he is bringing Valkyries and not the that twin punisher Vulture Forgeworld Gak-machine.

Burnas, does not work. It will take nine different miracles happening at the same time for Weirdboyz and and Stormboyz to bring down a stormraven. Tankbustas and Kustom Mega Cannons can damage fliers reliably but not efficiently. You will end up spending most of the game taking 4-8 wounds of all of his fliers, as you cannot focus one down efficiently. Traktor cannons are a joke.

The best way of handling fliers is to:

1) Ignore them and kill his other stuff.

2) Play a mission where objectives are scored every round.

3) Wait for the codex and pray.

4) Play Eldar and spam dark reapers. Watch your opponent cry.


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 JimOnMars wrote:
Has anyone tried weirdboy spam in trukks of boyz? I realize that makes the weirdboy 200 points, but the opponent has to chew through 20 wounds before touching him, and he can likely drive up right where you need him for smite.

It works, but you are paying 82 points for the privilege of being blown up, and then you will end up foot-slogging anyways

Question about the flyers thing: Do Grabbin' Klaws (if they're still around) still Immobilize vehicles on the next turn? And do Flyers still crash if they don't move?

Wierdboyz, KMK's, and tankbustaz are reasonable answers to fliers.

I ignore fliers unless they are the only target for my smites due to range, or the only vehicle on the board for my tankbustaz. Otherwise IMO it's a trap and a mistake in trying to bring them down.


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 JimOnMars wrote:
Has anyone tried weirdboy spam in trukks of boyz? I realize that makes the weirdboy 200 points, but the opponent has to chew through 20 wounds before touching him, and he can likely drive up right where you need him for smite.

I think you would need to supplement this army with some heavy armoured units that might draw fire away from your trukks. Consider a few burna-bombaz, or maybe some big-trakks. Or both.

Anvildude wrote:
Question about the flyers thing: Do Grabbin' Klaws (if they're still around) still Immobilize vehicles on the next turn? And do Flyers still crash if they don't move?

Anything without the "fly" keyword can't charge fliers so it's a moot point. That does mean stormboyz can charge fliers but don't expect them to shave off but a wound or two. That being said the first chance I get I am absolutely going to do that just for the cool factor.

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Wierdboyz and burnas are the only way to kill flyers right now.

Have you actually fired a unit of burnas at an aircraft?

Best case you get 45 hits, 15 wounds, 5 damage and some of them save another wound from some sort of FNP. Next turn they move at least 20" and are out of range.

On less blessed rounds you might not damage the flier at all.

I'm talking about 'burnas' as a type of weapon. Flamers, basically. Supa-skorcha big trakks are a prime example of what might strip a couple wounds off a flyer.

Anvildude wrote:
Question about the flyers thing: Do Grabbin' Klaws (if they're still around) still Immobilize vehicles on the next turn? And do Flyers still crash if they don't move?

Grabbin' Klaws are a single PK attack for BW now.

Although, kmk might also inflict a couple wounds on a flyer. 5+ to hit ain't too bad. But they'll overheat badly.

I 100-0'd a stormraven in 1 turn with 5 buffed weirdboyz. So there's that

 koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Wierdboyz and burnas are the only way to kill flyers right now.

Have you actually fired a unit of burnas at an aircraft?

Best case you get 45 hits, 15 wounds, 5 damage and some of them save another wound from some sort of FNP. Next turn they move at least 20" and are out of range.

On less blessed rounds you might not damage the flier at all.

I'm talking about 'burnas' as a type of weapon. Flamers, basically. Supa-skorcha big trakks are a prime example of what might strip a couple wounds off a flyer.

A beefed-up version of the flakka-dakka gun would be much appreciated, I guess.

Supa skorchas get an average of 8 hits, 4 of those wound your average flier, 2 get past its armor. You need six of those to kill a flier, skorchas are even worse.

Flamers with a damage value of 1 are pretty much unable to kill a plane. Other armies have flamers with 2 or 3 damage, those are actually good at killing planes.

There is literally nothing you can do about a flier except smiting it with 4+ weird boyz and hope for high damage rolls. Any further commitment will cost you the game, because you could kill twice as many regular models instead, no matter what you are shooting at them.

 Jidmah wrote:
Supa skorchas get an average of 8 hits, 4 of those wound your average flier, 2 get past its armor. You need six of those to kill a flier, skorchas are even worse.

Flamers with a damage value of 1 are pretty much unable to kill a plane. Other armies have flamers with 2 or 3 damage, those are actually good at killing planes.

There is literally nothing you can do about a flier except smiting it with 4+ weird boyz and hope for high damage rolls. Any further commitment will cost you the game, because you could kill twice as many regular models instead, no matter what you are shooting at them.

2 more or less guaranteed wounds to a flyer ain't too bad. You don't always need to kill it dead. 2 wounds here, 2 wounds there, a couple wounds from some kmk or smites and it's down to half wounds and looses 1 BS. A couple more next turn and you can proceed to ignore it.

Points for points Gretchin is slightly better against flyers than a super-skorcha bigtrakk. Which means awful.

doubt they'll all get within 12' without getting shot to bits as they're funnily enough a juicy target to any s4 weapon point-for-point.

The thing is - as you have repeated yourself multiple times over all your last posts - no matter what you shoot at the flier, it will do no more than a couple of wounds.

So, when shooting some of the stronger fliers, a supa-skorcha does 1 wound , another 5 KMK another 6 damage (while dealing the 5-6 damage to themselves), and your entire unit of tank-bustas managed to hit another single rokkit for a grand total of 10 damage.

The storm raven is degraded to BS 4+, flies out of range of all your weapons and still manages to wipe out that unit of tank bustas, a hemlock wraithfighter won't even lose anything.

Played a game against slaanesh chaos today. MVP unit was 3 mega nobz with killsaws. Lost my transports early, but i kept mobile by having a warboss close to them, letting them charge after advancing. They killed 1 deamon prince, 1 deamonette character, 3 bikes and 7 havocs. At the end of the game, the last mega nob was fighting havocs at the enemy home objective, but the game sadly ended. They alone had pushed back the front like 30“ and survived heavy bolters and lascannons with help of cover +1 save. Meganobz are not an all round unit like boyz, but they have their niche.


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The enemy was in my face with 14 seekers round one so i had to fight my way across the entire board with scattered enemy units. This proved an ideal scenario for the mega nobz

Gitdakka wrote:
Played a game against slaanesh chaos today. MVP unit was 3 mega nobz with killsaws. Lost my transports early, but i kept mobile by having a warboss close to them, letting them charge after advancing. They killed 1 deamon prince, 1 deamonette character, 3 bikes and 7 havocs. At the end of the game, the last mega nob was fighting havocs at the enemy home objective, but the game sadly ended. They alone had pushed back the front like 30“ and survived heavy bolters and lascannons with help of cover +1 save. Meganobz are not an all round unit like boyz, but they have their niche.


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The enemy was in my face with 14 seekers round one so i had to fight my way across the entire board with scattered enemy units. This proved an ideal scenario for the mega nobz

That’s interesting. Was your opponent trying to engage the MANZ or trying to avoid them? It sounds like they did a lot of work, was that the Warboss letting them pursue or your opponent throwing everything at them?

A battlewagon on the flank drew 2/3 of the lascannon shots. The MANZ was charged by the deamon prince but it only caused 2 wounds. For the remaining 4 rounds they recieved fire from 4 heavy bolters, autoguns and some lascannons.

Would dakka jets help with the flyer problem?

From what i've heard dakka jets dont have enough heavy firepower to kill flyers

10 skorchas in a BW has done some work for me against flyers, but yeh KMK's (mek for repair) and tankbustas are my go too.