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2018/03/26 05:50:56
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Hades wrote: Is ten stormboyz enough for a tournament style list? I had bought a box simply because I liked the models but was recently was gifted another. Ideally they would add to the alpha charge of 40 jumped boyz and ten kommandos Should the nob bother with a weapon upgrade?
If I only had ten I would consider running them 2x5 just to go for an objective fast and then maybe spend a turn denying an important enemy unit it's movement phase. I think a good goal for any timed game is trying to deny your opponent good movement phases by simply just putting things in the way while you grab objectives. Stormboyz, Planes, Jumped Shoota boyz and grotz, Kommandos, Buggies excel at getting in da way and, except the plane, scoring. Hopefully, you have the speed and bodies to grab objectives and be ahead and not tabled by the end of turn three or four, at which point you run out of time.
I am the kinda ork that takes his own washing machine apart, puts new bearings in it, then puts it back together, and it still works.
2018/03/26 06:16:19
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I play green tide and always take 1 or 2 mobs of 30 shoota boyz. As others have mentioned, I prefer them for my first turn jump target. If you're maxing out on boyz, sometimes you just can't get everyone stuck in combat. The shootas can hang back on an objective and possibly plink away at something. They give a little flexibility, but overall choppas are the better choice for raw damage output (in my experience).
2018/03/26 07:57:47
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
koooaei wrote: What's that in the backfield that you need protecting that grots are better at than grot gunners?
Well you are obviously protecting against deepstrikes, so you are protecting the board. And when compared to 3ppm gretchin, grot gunners come with expensive mek gunz and are at a huge area denial disadvantage. Don't get me wrong, I take KMKs instead of gretchin, but I also take other heavy armoured units so my KMKs are not the only good target for lascannons. But I think you might be intentionally ignoring the obvious answers here.
2018/03/26 09:12:55
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
koooaei wrote: What's that in the backfield that you need protecting that grots are better at than grot gunners?
Well you are obviously protecting against deepstrikes, so you are protecting the board. And when compared to 3ppm gretchin, grot gunners come with expensive mek gunz and are at a huge area denial disadvantage. Don't get me wrong, I take KMKs instead of gretchin, but I also take other heavy armoured units so my KMKs are not the only good target for lascannons. But I think you might be intentionally ignoring the obvious answers here.
Indeed, i am. I think that grots can have a place but it in no way justifies their horrible profile. Grots would have been amazing in a necron army. Or in a SM army if they had no access to guards. But the "grots are the best unit in an ork army" is a gross overstatement. I know that none of you actually advocate that grots are THE best unit. All you're trying to do, at least as i understand it, is say that grots have an implementation and they can be good at some exact role. At which i say: Yeah, but this role is extremely niche for our army and can better be filled with boyz because, while taking less space and being a bit less durable vs s5-7 fire, they ARE better at everything else.
My logics is simple. To use grots, you take points away from the list and dump them to fill this exact niche which is fine and all but if you take the exact same amount of points and dump thim in boyz, they not only fill that niche, albeit a bit less effective in some situations, but also provide other quite important opportunities. Like being able to merge into other units when they get thinned out, being able to wreck face to small units - and i've done it countless times cause i often play vs hardcore players that like, for example, spamming scion comsquads. if they drop in and target something important, they got to make bloody sure they also deal with 10 shootaboyz that stand nearby cause otherwise, they'll loose the squad. 20 grots? Yeah, they'll kill a couple scions but than there are still a couple left. And shootaboyz will just wreck them in mellee before taking a coupe out with shooting.
Grots can be used to just fill space behind your lines. To not get the deepstrikers in the back. But keep in mind that they don't provide an absolute protection. Grots are very very easy to kill. If the opponent wants to ds in the back, he WILL kill the grots regardless.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/03/26 09:19:36
2018/03/26 09:19:37
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
koooaei wrote: What's that in the backfield that you need protecting that grots are better at than grot gunners?
Well you are obviously protecting against deepstrikes, so you are protecting the board. And when compared to 3ppm gretchin, grot gunners come with expensive mek gunz and are at a huge area denial disadvantage. Don't get me wrong, I take KMKs instead of gretchin, but I also take other heavy armoured units so my KMKs are not the only good target for lascannons. But I think you might be intentionally ignoring the obvious answers here.
Indeed, i am. I think that grots can have a place but it in no way justifies their horrible profile. Grots would have been amazing in a necron army. Or in a SM army if they had no access to guards. But the "grots are the best unit in an ork army" is a gross overstatement. I know that none of you actually advocate that grots are THE best unit. All you're trying to do, at least as i understand it, is say that grots have an implementation and they can be good at some exact role. At which i say: Yeah, but this role is extremely niche for our army and can better be filled with boyz because, while taking less space and being a bit less durable vs s5-7 fire, they ARE better at everything else.
My logics is simple. To use grots, you take points away from the list and dump them to fill this exact niche which is fine and all but if you take the exact same amount of points and dump thim in boyz, they not only fill that niche, albeit a bit less effective in some situations, but also provide other quite important opportunities. Like being able to merge into other units when they get thinned out, being able to wreck face to small units - and i've done it countless times cause i often play vs hardcore players that like, for example, spamming scion comsquads. if they drop in and target something important, they got to make bloody sure they also deal with 10 shootaboyz that stand nearby cause otherwise, they'll loose the squad. 20 grots? Yeah, they'll kill a couple scions but than there are still a couple left. And shootaboyz will just wreck them in mellee before taking a coupe out.
I think in a competitive setting, the only advantage orks have is durability through wounds. Let's be honest here, you're not tabling your opponent if they brought a good list. You know what? You're not tabling them even if they brought a medium list. I would argue that board control through durability is the single most important variable orks can use to win games. Gretchin are easily the best role players to maximise that variable, quite literally twice as effective as boys. It may not be fun to play, or even realistic, but I think 600 gretchin would be the best list orks could field and win the most tournament games by far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/26 09:21:27
2018/03/26 09:35:32
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Your idea is thatgrots can outlast anything and that the suffecient enough pool of wounds can be enough to win games on it's own.
I disagree because even 600 grots will not last long enough vs a full army.
Pask in a punisher alone will kill 34 grots on average. A razorback will kill 7 grots but a buffed razorback will kill 10+.
Doesn't seem like much but hey, they're paying off in 3-4 turns. Grots will end at turn 5.
You got to deal damage to be more durable - even if you are less durable point-for-point to begin with. But if there's no real way of lowering the incoming damage, you'll collapse. Grots can't minimise the incoming damage. They deal negligible damage themselves, they can't charge after advance and don't re-roll charge ranges, so are a turn slower at reaching combat to tie things up.
2018/03/26 09:49:26
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
If you want to math it out I will give it a go. But I bet I can build a gretchin army with some painboys, bigmeks, and warbosses, that you will have trouble tabling without building an army specifically designed to slaughter hordes. We could even pretend there is zero line of sight issues.
But to be honest it would be pointless, the army is unrealistic (but its good, someone do it, please).
3 warbosses, 3 painboys, 3 big mek KFFs.
480 gretchin wounds, 6+, 5++, 6+++. 12 CP for morale every turn that the warbosses can't handle, I'd call them fearless.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/26 09:57:29
2018/03/26 10:52:07
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
koooaei wrote: What's that in the backfield that you need protecting that grots are better at than grot gunners?
Well you are obviously protecting against deepstrikes, so you are protecting the board. And when compared to 3ppm gretchin, grot gunners come with expensive mek gunz and are at a huge area denial disadvantage. Don't get me wrong, I take KMKs instead of gretchin, but I also take other heavy armoured units so my KMKs are not the only good target for lascannons. But I think you might be intentionally ignoring the obvious answers here.
Indeed, i am. I think that grots can have a place but it in no way justifies their horrible profile. Grots would have been amazing in a necron army. Or in a SM army if they had no access to guards. But the "grots are the best unit in an ork army" is a gross overstatement. I know that none of you actually advocate that grots are THE best unit. All you're trying to do, at least as i understand it, is say that grots have an implementation and they can be good at some exact role. At which i say: Yeah, but this role is extremely niche for our army and can better be filled with boyz because, while taking less space and being a bit less durable vs s5-7 fire, they ARE better at everything else.
My logics is simple. To use grots, you take points away from the list and dump them to fill this exact niche which is fine and all but if you take the exact same amount of points and dump thim in boyz, they not only fill that niche, albeit a bit less effective in some situations, but also provide other quite important opportunities. Like being able to merge into other units when they get thinned out, being able to wreck face to small units - and i've done it countless times cause i often play vs hardcore players that like, for example, spamming scion comsquads. if they drop in and target something important, they got to make bloody sure they also deal with 10 shootaboyz that stand nearby cause otherwise, they'll loose the squad. 20 grots? Yeah, they'll kill a couple scions but than there are still a couple left. And shootaboyz will just wreck them in mellee before taking a coupe out.
I think in a competitive setting, the only advantage orks have is durability through wounds. Let's be honest here, you're not tabling your opponent if they brought a good list. You know what? You're not tabling them even if they brought a medium list. I would argue that board control through durability is the single most important variable orks can use to win games. Gretchin are easily the best role players to maximise that variable, quite literally twice as effective as boys. It may not be fun to play, or even realistic, but I think 600 gretchin would be the best list orks could field and win the most tournament games by far.
I dissagree with you. The experience I have had with (green tide) orks is that the first you might lose up to one third of your models against a shooty opponent, but as soon as you get into CC with a mayor part of your army, you can hopefully turn the match. I cannot see this happening with twice as many grots.
2018/03/26 11:06:29
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I dissagree with you. The experience I have had with (green tide) orks is that the first you might lose up to one third of your models against a shooty opponent, but as soon as you get into CC with a mayor part of your army, you can hopefully turn the match. I cannot see this happening with twice as many grots.
True, but turning the match and winning the game doesn't mean tabling the opponent or killing a lot of stuff. Orks boyz are all about survivability, even with the buffs a mob of boyz can only damage the high armored stuff. They can kill a dread or a rhino, nothing more.
I'm not sold on the gretchin army but don't pretend that buffed boyz are a killing machine, because they aren't. They're mostly an effective way to nullify the enemy anti tank.
2018/03/26 11:07:45
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
hollow one wrote: If you want to math it out I will give it a go. But I bet I can build a gretchin army with some painboys, bigmeks, and warbosses, that you will have trouble tabling without building an army specifically designed to slaughter hordes. We could even pretend there is zero line of sight issues.
But to be honest it would be pointless, the army is unrealistic (but its good, someone do it, please).
3 warbosses, 3 painboys, 3 big mek KFFs.
480 gretchin wounds, 6+, 5++, 6+++. 12 CP for morale every turn that the warbosses can't handle, I'd call them fearless.
If you want, we can play a game in tabletop. I'll bring an average list - surely, i'm not here to stand on the point till i die. I love grot models.But i just don't think that this army has any chance in competitive meta with the killiness rates being so high. It can work vs something that's focused on durability or killing explictly vehicles, though.
2018/03/26 11:55:08
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
So, I played this saturday against Blood Angels as foretold:
I won because of some rookie mistakes of my enemy and some bad Charge rolls in turn one.
My final list was:
HQ 1 Big Mek with KFF --> he did ok, but it's to diffcult to get all that boyz into the area... so, for next games I would prefer some more boyz
1 Warboss --> did his Job buffing the boyz so they could advance an Charge
2 Weirdboyz --> smiting
Elite
1 Painboy --> meh... not sure if he saved enough boyz with the Conga...
2x 5 Kommandos --> just great for coming in turn 3-4 to capture objectives
Troops
30xboyz --> killing machines... managed to take down 5 termis + 3-4 Blood guards and hold them for 3 turns (an exploding dakkajet helped a bit)
30xboyz --> running over the battlefield killing some assault troops... some tacticals...
10x gretchins --> nice Screening (not worth the Charge for my enemy so he had to deepstrike in a flank (and did not manage to pull of that Charge)). so basically, they gave me control of the Center of the table.
Heavy
Mek Gun --> shot down to early
big gun --> did ok, not great, but worth ist Points
big trakk --> the suppa-skorcha is amazing an is a bullet magnet
Flyer
Dakkajet --> another bullet magnet, barely got to shot once and luckly it exploded over my enemies.
Conclusion
Boyz are great
Gretchins seem unworthy to kill for the enemy
Kommandoz are great for Camping on objectives but rely on sheer luck to pull of a turn 1 Charge.
Range of KFF shouldn't be for the full unit
We Need a Stratagem that allows us to autoexplode Vehikels.
2018/03/26 13:05:14
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
hollow one wrote: If you want to math it out I will give it a go. But I bet I can build a gretchin army with some painboys, bigmeks, and warbosses, that you will have trouble tabling without building an army specifically designed to slaughter hordes. We could even pretend there is zero line of sight issues.
But to be honest it would be pointless, the army is unrealistic (but its good, someone do it, please).
3 warbosses, 3 painboys, 3 big mek KFFs.
480 gretchin wounds, 6+, 5++, 6+++. 12 CP for morale every turn that the warbosses can't handle, I'd call them fearless.
I like Gretchen as a unit but this is a bit ridicules I think.
It leaves out stuff to kill enemy units effectively. It depends on CP's to keep order which is silly for a list built on the back of Grot mobs where are the runtherd's? you loose almost nothing by having them in that list.
Frankly I see this and immediately thing Assault marines and flamers and artillery. If the opposing player sticks in some snipers, it's no good boss. I can actually see an MSU army giving this a lot of trouble.
This list needs Mek guns, or aircraft and at least 40 to 50 boys to mob up to for the bubble. Heck 60 if you can hid 30 of them long enough to mob them in.
I'm not up on all the new armies so I can't say what things like Tau would do to this. The only thing this has going for it is trying to run out the clock, by which I mean being more models than the other player might be able to kill in 6 turns. Clearly time would be an issue as well.
For me 30 to 60 grot is plenty for any list but after some of this discussion I am open to spending those points on more Mek guns just to see what will happen.
Last game I Sisters of Battle rolled up on me prior to turn one and then took first turn. So I had to fight my way out of my own deployment zone. They had a lot of flamers and allied artillery in one of their detachments.
Just out of curiosity, do you have the models for this list?
Does anyone drive a Bike mounted Mek or Painboy out to catch the jumping unit in their bubble? Can end badly for the character if the jump fails.
It's a wonderful idea! I'd thought about a painboy on bike to stack with da jump and 30 Storm boys as well but the bike cost less points on the Big Mek. So I have just the one in my current list Biker KFF Mek!
But Jumping in isn't the first part of the plan for my current list due to shoota boys and expecting to be screened off from a good jump. However, Jumping a pain boy across the board or a KFF is part of my plan for later in the game should I need to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/26 13:35:50
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
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2018/03/26 13:50:02
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
big trakk --> the suppa-skorcha is amazing an is a bullet magnet
Big trakk with suppa-skorcha can be the devastating to your regular armies and elite armies, but i fear it would not do well against hoard armies unless you brought 2-3 and you put double skorchas on them. I know it makes them more expensive then some of use would like. Several players in my local meta hate it when I play 2 of them. Dishes out on average 16 str 6 -2 dmg 1 (each big trak will average 8 auto hits)
Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
Elysians: 500
Khorne Daemons: 2500
2018/03/26 14:33:50
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
big trakk --> the suppa-skorcha is amazing an is a bullet magnet
Big trakk with suppa-skorcha can be the devastating to your regular armies and elite armies, but i fear it would not do well against hoard armies unless you brought 2-3 and you put double skorchas on them. I know it makes them more expensive then some of use would like. Several players in my local meta hate it when I play 2 of them. Dishes out on average 16 str 6 -2 dmg 1 (each big trak will average 8 auto hits)
Honestly I run 2 supa-skorcha big trakks because they're such big bullet magnets that I expect my opponent to focus fire on one of them in the first turn.
In response to the hordes:I think boyz are a better answer to hordes than supa skorchas. Wouldn't rule out supa-skorchas for horde usage but I don't think I'd bother with the two extra skorchas. I find that my big trakks are already big targets and an 8" range weapon requires me to shove my unit right near my opponent, allowing for them to target it easier next turn. The big trakk can take a light beating due to its 15 wounds but at 6 toughness and a 4+ save it is fragile to large volume of fire or anti armour. I've had most my success using them at range with hit and run tactics.
Does anyone drive a Bike mounted Mek or Painboy out to catch the jumping unit in their bubble? Can end badly for the character if the jump fails.
Bikes only drive 14" though, you would severely limit where you can jump, especially with the KFF needing everyone to be inside - a much more viable tactic would be jumping the mob and conga it to an a pain boy from the main force (takes 6-7 boyz to do so usually) since you are in no way obligated to keep your mob together. Once you've reached combat, you can remove those as casualties first.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/03/26 15:31:14
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Can we just agree that grots are useful, but will not likely win you games by themselves? All AbusePuppy said was that grots have value, which is hard to disagree with. FLG saying that grots are the best unit in the ork codex is hyperbole.
I also take FLG reviews with a grain of salt. FLG purpose is to sell you models and get you to go to their events, which isn't bad; but you should keep that in mind when you read their tactic articles.
orks 10000+ points
"SHHH. My common sense is tingling."--Deadpoool
Daemon-Archon Ren wrote: ...it doesn't matter how many times I make a false statement, it will still be false.
2018/03/26 16:46:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
So considering codex tend to remove options from the index that don’t have a model. What are the odds we lose options such as painboy on bike and big mek on bike.
2018/03/26 17:12:23
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
gungo wrote: So considering codex tend to remove options from the index that don’t have a model. What are the odds we lose options such as painboy on bike and big mek on bike.
We might lose the option but we can still use the entry in the index, per GW's own FAQ.
Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
Elysians: 500
Khorne Daemons: 2500
2018/03/26 20:48:43
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Geemoney wrote: Can we just agree that grots are useful, but will not likely win you games by themselves? All AbusePuppy said was that grots have value, which is hard to disagree with. FLG saying that grots are the best unit in the ork codex is hyperbole.
I agree with the part where he said that they are model with one wound that take up space and so on. However, objective secured is almost irrelevant on them since you will never be in a situation where an equal number of gretchin and opposing non-troops are within 3" of the same objective. Either the gretchin outnumber them, or they are dead. Therefore excess grot gunners from your KMK or kannons are always superior objective holders, since they are a lot harder to kill due to their targeting limitation.
This is why I said he usually views units from a space marine/eldar view point. Both would murder for some 3 point dorks to sit on objectives.
What gretchin can do is to keep opponents from assaulting valuable things in T1 or for keeping opponents entirely out of your table half (important for ITC formats, a lot less so for everyone else) - and they are awesome at doing that.
If your local meta has neither ITC missions nor a lot of T1 assaulting from deep strike going on, there is not a lot of use for gretchin on the table that cannot be done better by boyz or artillery.
I also take FLG reviews with a grain of salt. FLG purpose is to sell you models and get you to go to their events, which isn't bad; but you should keep that in mind when you read their tactic articles.
I like the FLG reviews for codices I'm not going to buy. They pretty much provide you with all the information on a unit you need as an opponent. If your opponent decided to field grav centurions, it's nice to know their strength and weaknesses, no matter how bad they are.
Just ignore their decree on units when it comes to building your own armies.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/03/26 23:43:59
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Hey all, I posted this over in the proposed rules codex suggestions thread, but I just wanted to share it over here too in order to get some more feed back. This is a first draft document of all my suggestions for the ork codex, most of which have been pulled from ideas by posters here at dakkadakka. I'd love for some people to look it over and try and "break" the codex under these suggestions as it hasn't been play tested yet (I can't get enough games in). If you have the time, please have a look and let me know what you think, either by pm or over in the codex suggestions thread in proposed rules so we don't derail this one.
If this is too off-topic ill remove the link, I just want to get as many ork eyes on this as possible.
koooaei wrote: I totally see your point but i've had a couple games where having 3 x 10 shootas (10 in each squad of 30) won me the game because i was able to shoot down the screen and charge what's behind it. If i had only choppas i would have to waste a turn killing the screen and it would have been a death sentence. But having removed even a couple bases allowed not only to make a charge to the more important target but also pile in and disrupt the backline afterwards. So, that's why i prefer this loadout, i guess. Just my experience.
Just curious how you got this to work in a game. Assuming 10 shootas, 20 shots, 7 hits, 4 wounds, that's 2-3 models removed. If the opponent removes the least effective screening models, I don't see how this gets you through the line for a charge. What kind of screens can you remove like this?
2018/03/27 05:34:49
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Hey all just a quick one do mega armour nobz have a deepstrike akin to termies? If not did they in previous editions / codexes ? Seem to recall them having it.
Cheers
2018/03/27 06:48:00
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
ManTube wrote: Hey all, I posted this over in the proposed rules codex suggestions thread, but I just wanted to share it over here too in order to get some more feed back. This is a first draft document of all my suggestions for the ork codex, most of which have been pulled from ideas by posters here at dakkadakka. I'd love for some people to look it over and try and "break" the codex under these suggestions as it hasn't been play tested yet (I can't get enough games in). If you have the time, please have a look and let me know what you think, either by pm or over in the codex suggestions thread in proposed rules so we don't derail this one.
If this is too off-topic ill remove the link, I just want to get as many ork eyes on this as possible.
Just put the link to your thread here, people interested will follow it.
One piece of advice though, before I even started reading: Re-arrange rules updates into some sort of table. Put down each unit and what you have changed for them, with an extra page for clan rules, warlord traits and powers, just like the codices are. As your rules are now they would be a pain to play-test since you would have to read a lot of text to find the relevant rules during your game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mothboi666 wrote: Hey all just a quick one do mega armour nobz have a deepstrike akin to termies? If not did they in previous editions / codexes ? Seem to recall them having it. Cheers
Some formations from the supplement that shall not be named had a chance to deep strike units. Besides that, the haven't had a natural ability to deep strike since 4th edition's codex.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/03/27 06:50:15
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2018/03/27 07:26:46
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
koooaei wrote: I totally see your point but i've had a couple games where having 3 x 10 shootas (10 in each squad of 30) won me the game because i was able to shoot down the screen and charge what's behind it. If i had only choppas i would have to waste a turn killing the screen and it would have been a death sentence. But having removed even a couple bases allowed not only to make a charge to the more important target but also pile in and disrupt the backline afterwards. So, that's why i prefer this loadout, i guess. Just my experience.
Just curious how you got this to work in a game. Assuming 10 shootas, 20 shots, 7 hits, 4 wounds, that's 2-3 models removed. If the opponent removes the least effective screening models, I don't see how this gets you through the line for a charge. What kind of screens can you remove like this?
One game there were some guardsmen - i killed a whole squad. The charge was so important, i had to dump kmk shooting in those guards either. But shootas killed 3 or 4 models more which was decisive for the gap between the squads to appear.
Another game there were scarabs. All i needed is to remove 1 base but there was absolutely no other shooting left other than snapshooting ghaz and shootaboyz. So, that was enough. Otherwise, boyz would have to hang around a necron squad and inevitebly get wiped.
2018/03/27 13:17:15
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
I was re-reading the ork index last night and I noticed something that i'm thinking might be where orks can excel. We have several ways to buff our attack characteristic. Has anyone toyed with the idea of taking all the buffs in a list to make that out?
Just off the top of my head there is a way to get a boy to have 6 attacks each if you put ghaza buff, warpath, and green tide buff on a unit.
Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
Elysians: 500
Khorne Daemons: 2500
2018/03/27 14:35:23
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Glitcha wrote: I was re-reading the ork index last night and I noticed something that i'm thinking might be where orks can excel. We have several ways to buff our attack characteristic. Has anyone toyed with the idea of taking all the buffs in a list to make that out?
Just off the top of my head there is a way to get a boy to have 6 attacks each if you put ghaza buff, warpath, and green tide buff on a unit.
that is already a pretty big part in making orks not trash, making sure to give them all buffs possible, though at the 6 attacks each point you enter diminishing returns unless you are pulling off a massive multicharge. 6 attacks each on 20 boyz and a nob with pk is going to wipe a squad of 5 tac marines just fine with 3 attacks each
10000 points 7000 6000 5000 5000 2000
2018/03/27 18:12:05
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)
Okay a feel a little silly, but Ghaza is just a beast. Combine with a warlord trait from the BRB he gets 7 attacks on the charge with his 2+ power klaw.
Armies:
The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
Ultramarines: 4,000
Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
Elysians: 500
Khorne Daemons: 2500
![[Disk]](/dakkaforum/templates/default/images/icon_disk.gif){kind=icon}
7000 
