Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**Meanmurph**

hollow one wrote:
Meanmurph wrote:
Does anyone have any advice for taking on BA with pure greentide? There are two players in my club that I can't beat. We're playing ITC Champion missions. They both run the usual blobs of Sanguinary Guards and DC, a Sanguinary Ancient, a few smash captains, Lamartes, scouts, and scout bikers. Other than that one guy runs pure BA with primaris and the other with IG.
Firstly, why do you make your text so big?

Anyway, BA are a really good match-up for green tide on paper. Slam captains and sang guard are great at alpha striking, once they deep strike and destroy whatever they want, they are left pretty exposed. So all you really have to do is take some of the table (ideally with some objectives) and wait for the deepstrike, then swarm with boys. Don't run forward and spread out and let them find a nice hole to your characters. Just build a donut of boys around your weirdboyz and wait for him to make the first move. You'll win so long as he feels pressured to take board space away from you. If he's sitting back he's not doing a lot of damage, so that can be good for you. Make sure you have good target priority in combat, once the captains are down they are actually pretty useless, but the sang guard are pretty scary, so interrupt those charges or get good counter charges on them. Leave the characters to last, or smite them.

I play a KMK line with greentide and weirdboys, and this match-up feels good if you're patient and play objectives. What secondaries are you choosing in ITC? By how much are you losing? Are you getting to turn 6? I think green-tide has the tools to win this match-up, it can certainly be a tactical error rather than a list error that can edge you towards losing.

I haven't had luck playing the long game. While I hangout on objectives, they're blasting away mobz with mortars, aggressors, and scout bikers. Though, I'm probably spread too thin.

I don't currently run any kmks. I usually go with recon, old school, and headhunter. I did try out behind enemy lines, with a couple of dakkajetz added to the lists for funsies. The captains made very short work of those though. We'll hit turn six usually though only 5 on occasion. Yup, I don't think it's list. Thanks for the advice.

**hollow one**

Ah well now we are talking different units as well, mortars and aggressors are a nightmare to deal with. I have a single Dakkajet in my list, and it's primary role is to kill mortar squads when I vs imperial guard soups. He kills a triplet each turn, very very useful, and you've mentioned you've got some so I would certainly bring a dakkajet for this purpose alone. Aggressors are much more difficult to deal with, but if you can force them to move then you're in a much better position. Hopefully the board allows you to hide at least a little bit.

Oldschool is super hard for orks. We rarely have the pressure to get first blood, can only get to their warlord if they deliver him, and if we get linebreaker/last kill then you've probably tabled them anyway. Consider BGH or reaper if possible, otherwise go for kingslayer and put it on one of his smash captains (sure he's only worth 2 points, but he becomes a huge liability for your opponent and they may not use him properly).

**rvd1ofakind**

Pew pew boyz and kmks 1st place in 2v2 tournament. Ha, now you can stop saying I don't play orks :p
3x boyz blobs, 3x kmk, weirdboy, warboss on bike
Tyranid partner with 1 tyrnant, 1 tyrannofex and chaff

Won against 2 semi-cheating guys. So that's cool. Anywho no big deal ofc, but first ork win in the country I guess. And still undefeated in 8th ed tournies - yay

**CaffeineIsGood**

Jidmah wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CaffeineIsGood wrote:
So does anyone feel like they know the optimum unit for seizing objectives and tying units down?
Kommando deployment is great, but for the rest of the game meh. And I like my grots, but I wonder if some more-durable faster stormboyz would do a better job, or are they just too expensive?? idk.

Boyz and storm boyz do work well obviously.
If you want to clear a unit off an objective, both Zardsnark and the warboss on a bike with relic and attack squig are decent choices as they can kill a lot of infantry models in shooting and combat, have character protection and can get anywhere really fast. I wouldn't try to shift a unit of custodes off and objective with them though.

I'm loving the idea of a biker warboss, hadn't really considered them, had stormboyz on the mind.
Is it worth taking a Kombi-Skorcha on the biker-warboss? Or is Zardnark the better choice?

**Ming**

So I had a game against Nids this Weekend.

´Warbosses definetly Need some inv. saves...

Big trakk with supa-skorcha, as usual, freaking awesome (brought a Broodlord down in overwacth).

Boyz... what to say, just hope that they don't get nerfed... I made a mistake with the attacks (3 instead of 4) and even though they ripped apart 2 Units of genestealers in 1 turn and brought down the big monsters.

The Burna-bomber did well and I've got my doubts in which one I preffer, burna-bomber or dakkajet.

The Stormboyz 3 squads of 5 did great in first turn to secure a couple of objectives and absorve a lot of fire power and assaults in turn 1, after that they were gone.

Also, I got some AoS Ironjaz to make some conversions (my Big Mek on Pork is looking great already).

**SemperMortis**

Ming wrote:
So I had a game against Nids this Weekend.

´Warbosses definetly Need some inv. saves...

Big trakk with supa-skorcha, as usual, freaking awesome (brought a Broodlord down in overwacth).

Boyz... what to say, just hope that they don't get nerfed... I made a mistake with the attacks (3 instead of 4) and even though they ripped apart 2 Units of genestealers in 1 turn and brought down the big monsters.

The Burna-bomber did well and I've got my doubts in which one I preffer, burna-bomber or dakkajet.

The Stormboyz 3 squads of 5 did great in first turn to secure a couple of objectives and absorve a lot of fire power and assaults in turn 1, after that they were gone.

Also, I got some AoS Ironjaz to make some conversions (my Big Mek on Pork is looking great already).

I agree with you on warboss, I almost don't want him to get into combat because when he gets there he is usually focused by the enemies troops, who can usually inflict some wounds or kill him outright because hes only got a 4+ save. Boyz.....they literally carry our army right now by themselves. I played against a Nid player the other day and he moved 3 units of Genestealers and a unit of Gaunts right up to my line and failed EVERY SINGLE CHARGE. My two units of boyz counter attacked, one got a buff from a weirdboy (warpath) and they absolutely mulched his entire line.

on a mod basis....I just bought a unit of Chaos Warriors from AoS, the ones with the capes. I am going to try and put Ork Torsos, or if the cape is part of the torso then just the arms and head of an Ork on them and use them as Kommandos. I refuse to pay $45 for 5 Ork Boyz models which cost a grand total of 45pts on the table.

**Alkorus**

While looking for the big FAQ that just came out, I realised that most of the other 40k FAQs have been updated today as well, including the imperial armour indexes (https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/imperial_armour_index_xenos-1.pdf)

At the end of the document, there are new datasheets for units that weren't in the index originally, including the Battlefortress! Unfortunately, there are no point values, just power points. I looked in my ebook of the IA index and nothing seems to have been added... Any ideas where they might be or if they are going to be added soon?

**malcontent999**

Alkorus wrote:
While looking for the big FAQ that just came out, I realised that most of the other 40k FAQs have been updated today as well, including the imperial armour indexes (https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/imperial_armour_index_xenos-1.pdf)

At the end of the document, there are new datasheets for units that weren't in the index originally, including the Battlefortress! Unfortunately, there are no point values, just power points. I looked in my ebook of the IA index and nothing seems to have been added... Any ideas where they might be or if they are going to be added soon?

It says in the faq that the new datasheets are only for open/narrative play, and won't be getting matched play points.

**Alkorus**

Damn, I wanted to convert a fortress :(

**grendel083**

Chinork now open-topped.

This is a pretty big deal

**TedNugent**

Kommandos just took a huge nerf. Can only infiltrate in your deployment zone on turn 1 now, unless you want to wait until turn 2.

That also indirectly affects da jump, because in order to do so the unit being jumped would be completely isolated turn 1.

Grotsnik also just lost his dual-FNP (5+, 6+). Too OP in spite of being inferior to a 3++.

Big changes in my mind to how I was planning on structuring an Ork army (full back field arrival turn 1). Good thing I waited. I figured that would change.

**JimOnMars**

It looks like chain mob rule is gone. You no longer can use the leadership of the next-door unit, only it's model count. This means the big blob can't spread it's LD30 everywhere, just to the units next to it:

Page 10 – Mob Rule
Change the rule to read:
‘When using the Leadership characteristic of this unit,
you can use either its own Leadership characteristic,
or you can choose for the characteristic to be equal to
either the number of models in the unit, or the number
of models in another friendly unit within 6" that has
this ability.’

**pismakron**

grendel083 wrote:
Chinork now open-topped.

This is a pretty big deal

What?? That is HUGE !!!

**koooaei**

TedNugent wrote:
Kommandos just took a huge nerf. Can only infiltrate in your deployment zone on turn 1 now, unless you want to wait until turn 2.

That also indirectly affects da jump, because in order to do so the unit being jumped would be completely isolated turn 1.

Grotsnik also just lost his dual-FNP (5+, 6+). Too OP in spite of being inferior to a 3++.

Big changes in my mind to how I was planning on structuring an Ork army (full back field arrival turn 1). Good thing I waited. I figured that would change.

where did you read that?

**pismakron**

koooaei wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
Kommandos just took a huge nerf. Can only infiltrate in your deployment zone on turn 1 now, unless you want to wait until turn 2.

That also indirectly affects da jump, because in order to do so the unit being jumped would be completely isolated turn 1.

Grotsnik also just lost his dual-FNP (5+, 6+). Too OP in spite of being inferior to a 3++.

Big changes in my mind to how I was planning on structuring an Ork army (full back field arrival turn 1). Good thing I waited. I figured that would change.

where did you read that?

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_The_Big_FAQ_1_2018_en.pdf

No stacking FNP. No deepstriking in the first battleround. And some other minor changes that neither breaks nor fixes the game.

**Madoho**

koooaei wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
Kommandos just took a huge nerf. Can only infiltrate in your deployment zone on turn 1 now, unless you want to wait until turn 2.

That also indirectly affects da jump, because in order to do so the unit being jumped would be completely isolated turn 1.

Grotsnik also just lost his dual-FNP (5+, 6+). Too OP in spite of being inferior to a 3++.

Big changes in my mind to how I was planning on structuring an Ork army (full back field arrival turn 1). Good thing I waited. I figured that would change.

where did you read that?

It's in the newly released FAQ at the bottom of the page.

**pismakron**

JimOnMars wrote:
It looks like chain mob rule is gone. You no longer can use the leadership of the next-door unit, only it's model count. This means the big blob can't spread it's LD30 everywhere, just to the units next to it:

Page 10 – Mob Rule
Change the rule to read:
‘When using the Leadership characteristic of this unit,
you can use either its own Leadership characteristic,
or you can choose for the characteristic to be equal to
either the number of models in the unit, or the number
of models in another friendly unit within 6" that has
this ability.’

I don't see how this changes anything. You could not chain the mob rule even with the old wording.

**gungo**

Storm boys no longer die when they advance by a warlord- huge change

Smite spam is nerfed but Capped at 11 so still doable

Chinork is open topped makes it our best transport

Meka dread now has all the options of a mega dread, this means rattler kannons or kill kannons or dual klaws with an extra atk, combined with kff or mega charger or bomb racks (I’m sad no supa skorcha)

Warboss on bike now actually helps bikerboys

**Grimskul**

I kinda wish they gave some matched play points options for stuff like the kill krusha, their gun options look a lot better than the kill blasta and the kill bursta guns.

**pismakron**

Woohoo warbikers can advance and charge if close to a warboss now, and Stormboyz can advance and charge without dying if close to a Warboss. Awesome.

**gungo**

I still have a question regarding the Meka dread option for the kill saw... they still sell the saw but it has no stats. It’s alsk weird you choose between bolters/rokkits or mega charga/kff. When both bodies have both options.

**BAN**

So does this make warbikers more tempting? Could be nice combined with a load of stormboyz and a warbosses on bike

**Blackie**

Still too expensive. I have hopes for the codex after seeing that Drukhari Reavers went from 30ppm to 19ppm and also gained several nice buffs

**gungo**

pismakron wrote:
Woohoo warbikers can advance and charge if close to a warboss now, and Stormboyz can advance and charge without dying if close to a Warboss. Awesome.

Considering the massive nerf to deep strike armies being able to still da jump a 30 man unit of choppa boys backed up by zhardsnark with several Squads of stormsboyz (moving, advancing, and charging) without losing models is nice.
Add in a few chinorks with tankbustas and some turn 2 kommandos with multiple burnas. We still have a decent army list.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BAN wrote:
So does this make warbikers more tempting? Could be nice combined with a load of stormboyz and a warbosses on bike

warbikers no.... stormboys yes

**rvd1ofakind**

Ruins are now unchargeable. Thoughts? ...........................................................................................

**An Actual Englishman**

The rules for those discontinued units look pretty sweet and gives me some hope that GW actually have a clue how Orks need to be changed to be effective.

**warhead01**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ruins are now unchargeable. Thoughts? ...........................................................................................

I read your post here but can't find what you are referencing so far. Could you post what that's about.

**davou**

if you cant place models on the same floor as the unit you charged your charge now fails.

**hollow one**

warhead01 wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ruins are now unchargeable. Thoughts? ...........................................................................................

I read your post here but can't find what you are referencing so far. Could you post what that's about.

Q: If a unit declares a charge against an enemy unit that is
entirely on the upper level of a terrain feature such as a ruin,
Sector Mechanicus structure, etc., but it cannot physically end
its charge move within 1" of any models from that unit (either
because there is not enough room to place the charging unit, or
because the charging unit is unable to end its move on the upper
levels of that terrain feature because of the expanded terrain
rules for it – as with ruins, for example), does that charge fail?
A: Yes.

It's a huge deal, and easily exploitable. This makes second levels on terrain a nightmare for orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Otherwise I would argue that a Warboss on bike with headwoppa is MUCH better than Zhadsnark now, because his rule did not change so he can not advance and charge himself, but the warboss rule did change. And Kommando lists might be dead now.

**warhead01**

hollow one wrote:
warhead01 wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ruins are now unchargeable. Thoughts? ...........................................................................................

I read your post here but can't find what you are referencing so far. Could you post what that's about.

Q: If a unit declares a charge against an enemy unit that is
entirely on the upper level of a terrain feature such as a ruin,
Sector Mechanicus structure, etc., but it cannot physically end
its charge move within 1" of any models from that unit (either
because there is not enough room to place the charging unit, or
because the charging unit is unable to end its move on the upper
levels of that terrain feature because of the expanded terrain
rules for it – as with ruins, for example), does that charge fail?
A: Yes.

It's a huge deal, and easily exploitable. This makes second levels on terrain a nightmare for orks.
.

OK. That's how I had thought it would have been played already.
I guess due to my group having played together for so long. Meh.