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JNAProductions wrote: You lose the DG trait (RF at 18", no move penalties for shooting) and the Nurgle Daemons' Locus, and far more importantly, you don't unlock stratagems without a pure DG or Daemons detachment.
Sounds like it more of a hindrance than anything. Thank you for clarifying what that does
JNAProductions wrote: Well, you CAN use strats on the units with the right keywords. You just need a pure Detachment to unlock them first.
So, I could run a Nurgle Patrol detachment to unlock the Locus and than run a Mixed Battalion of DG + Nurgle and I can than use both the Locus and Gems without an issue? Besides the DG ones.
JNAProductions wrote: Well, you CAN use strats on the units with the right keywords. You just need a pure Detachment to unlock them first.
So, I could run a Nurgle Patrol detachment to unlock the Locus and than run a Mixed Battalion of DG + Nurgle and I can than use both the Locus and Gems without an issue? Besides the DG ones.
Yes-however, do note that ONLY the Characters in the Patrol would have the Locus.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
My army is mostly Nurgle daemons and Death guard. My question is: would one of the Silver Tower Pink horrors make a decent sub for a Fatecaster Herald of tzeentch on foot? It has a blade, is more heavily mutated, and would be the only Tzeentch model on the board.
Dont feel like getting a whole Burning Chariot just for my Weaver of Fate delivery service.
Picture wont load. My bad.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/01/08 15:29:45
Nightlord1987 wrote: My army is mostly Nurgle daemons and Death guard. My question is: would one of the Silver Tower Pink horrors make a decent sub for a Fatecaster Herald of tzeentch on foot? It has a blade, is more heavily mutated, and would be the only Tzeentch model on the board.
Dont feel like getting a whole Burning Chariot just for my Weaver of Fate delivery service.
Picture wont load. My bad.
Oh, Silver Tower Pink Horror is absolutely Herald material. Very different visual profile than the PH unit set. In fact, they stick out so much, when I added one of them to my ST collection, I ended up using one of the ST ones as a Herald Mighty Adversary, and the other I did up as the Librarian.
On the GW store, it looks like all the other foot Heralds are on 25mm bases. All of my foot Heralds are kitbashed from Seeker Chariot/Seeker boxes so I bought 25mm bases for them.
I really, really hope they don't move Daemons to 32mm bases, I really don't want to have to rebase sixty-odd Daemonettes and Heralds.
On the GW store, it looks like all the other foot Heralds are on 25mm bases. All of my foot Heralds are kitbashed from Seeker Chariot/Seeker boxes so I bought 25mm bases for them.
I really, really hope they don't move Daemons to 32mm bases, I really don't want to have to rebase sixty-odd Daemonettes and Heralds.
I don't know if Demonettes moved, I know Pink Horrors, Plaguebearers, and Bloodletters are all now on 32mm bases. Demonettes I don't think will go up though, in stature they are smaller than the rest I believe.
Generally speaking, when I custom build a model I go to the GW site and find the "newest" version of a model to use as a basis for size and base. So if the herald of tzeentch in the Get Started box in on a 25mm base, I would say your g2g!
On the GW store, it looks like all the other foot Heralds are on 25mm bases. All of my foot Heralds are kitbashed from Seeker Chariot/Seeker boxes so I bought 25mm bases for them.
I really, really hope they don't move Daemons to 32mm bases, I really don't want to have to rebase sixty-odd Daemonettes and Heralds.
I don't know if Demonettes moved, I know Pink Horrors, Plaguebearers, and Bloodletters are all now on 32mm bases. Demonettes I don't think will go up though, in stature they are smaller than the rest I believe.
Generally speaking, when I custom build a model I go to the GW site and find the "newest" version of a model to use as a basis for size and base. So if the herald of tzeentch in the Get Started box in on a 25mm base, I would say your g2g!
Daemonette base sizes didn’t change. Bases are still 25mm. Just bought two boxes last week, they’re 25mm, and their bass in Wrath and Rapture are 25mm; compare to the BL’s 32mm for reference on the box.
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I buy these 30mm bases from a seller on ebay called ken*of*york, they are really really great. A 25mm base fits perfectly onto the 30mm one, and the new base is flat enough but with a bit of a lip that you can simply glue the 25mm based model onto the 30mm base and bam, done. Also the tiny bit of extra hight you get isnt anywhere near as much as the hight most newer models get from just getting updated (my 25mm tson models are still smaller even on these bases than my newer 32mm ones are).
I agree, i spent a lot of time just switching all my demons from square bases to round, i am not going to rebase again.
Given that the plastic plaguebearer models are sold on 32mm bases, and my old metal models came with the 25mm slottabases (and I like consistency), I can't just cut the lip of the base off and glue the top of the base onto a 32mm base, so I've bought some plastic base expanders after reading this review and tutorial:
I had originally started gently removing my models from their bases, removing the slottabase and drilling a pin into the foot of the model to pin to a new 32mm base, but this was WAY too much effort and handling of the models, and I was worried about damage to the models or their paint. Hopefully these arrive in a few days and provide a much better solution.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/11 00:13:55
Hey guys... I've been list building a daemon army and I've realized something...
I can plop down ~10 different characters that would be "pressing forward" towards the enemies...
Such as DPs, EFlamers, Fluxmasters...
Is it possible to position them such that my opponents can't target them all? Meaning, has anyone tried a character spam list and only give them the one or two legal targets per round?
I think the recent FAQ tells you to ignore a character in combat when targeting a farther character...
But, what about a character that's closer to the shooting unit, but is completely out of sight (ie, the 1st level of a ruin under ITC rule)... can the shooting unit target a farther character unit?
Anything else I should know?
I'll also have several units of nurglings midboard / in enemy's zone... do they offer some protections to these characters?
As long as your chrs have less than 10 wounds on their data sheet they are ignored for blocking for other characters. One of the most effective deamon forces i have ever ran did nothing but chrs and troops, demonettes, bloodletters, horrors, nurglings all moving forward while 5 deamon princes moved behind them then t2 jumped over the line hitting the enemy force (eldar force) at full strength. Really pissed my opponent off (he needed to be dropped a few pegs, bit of a bad sport / showoff) because all his dark reapers and hemlocks were next to worthless shooting at 7 pt models when there were such juicy targets simply protected due to chr armor. He conceded beginning t3 after my initial wave crushed all opposition....
So it can work, but chrs cant block for chrs. Its why nurglings are so good. They are small, can hide in cover out of sight but still be closer so you cant target that dp moving up.
What Azuza said about the Nurglings is great advice.
I have those and a PB block in my list. The PBs run forward roughly 11", which is enough to keep DPs and Nurgle support chars in the center of the blob for the first turn.
Between those, the only targets I present on T1 are PBs at -2 to hit, Nurglings that are out of LoS, and some hidden cultists.
Smart missiles mess me up, but they only have a 30" range so can't hit the cultists, and the Nurglings with a 5++/5+++ are pretty resilient.
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Hey, I'm setting up a Tzeentch Daemon/Thousand Sons/CSM army and here's my list of forces (I may add three more Chaos Marines from the Easy to Build box). I haven't organized them yet, but I was wondering if you thought it was a good army or not. I was also hoping possibly for some advice on how I could organize it to make it most effective on the battlefield:
Tzaangors (20, with Tzaangor Blades)
Tzaangor Shaman (1, with Force Stave and Blade)
Tzaangor Enlightened (3, with Divining Spears and Blades)
Tzaangor Skyfires (3, with Fatecaster Greatbows): 51
Cultists: (5, 3 with Autoguns, 2 with Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons)
Kairic Cultists (10, with Brutal Assault Weapons)
Exalted Flamer (2)
Fateskimmer (2)
Changecaster (1)
Pink Horrors (12)
Blue Horrors (20)
Lord of Change with Baleful Sword (1)
Exalted Sorcerer [Special Vigilus Character] (1, with Inferno Bolt Pistol and Force Stave)
Kairos Fateweaver
Chaos Space Marine Squad (10, with Boltguns)
Azuza001 wrote: As long as your chrs have less than 10 wounds on their data sheet they are ignored for blocking for other characters. One of the most effective deamon forces i have ever ran did nothing but chrs and troops, demonettes, bloodletters, horrors, nurglings all moving forward while 5 deamon princes moved behind them then t2 jumped over the line hitting the enemy force (eldar force) at full strength. Really pissed my opponent off (he needed to be dropped a few pegs, bit of a bad sport / showoff) because all his dark reapers and hemlocks were next to worthless shooting at 7 pt models when there were such juicy targets simply protected due to chr armor. He conceded beginning t3 after my initial wave crushed all opposition....
So it can work, but chrs cant block for chrs. Its why nurglings are so good. They are small, can hide in cover out of sight but still be closer so you cant target that dp moving up.
I have those and a PB block in my list. The PBs run forward roughly 11", which is enough to keep DPs and Nurgle support chars in the center of the blob for the first turn.
Between those, the only targets I present on T1 are PBs at -2 to hit, Nurglings that are out of LoS, and some hidden cultists.
Smart missiles mess me up, but they only have a 30" range so can't hit the cultists, and the Nurglings with a 5++/5+++ are pretty resilient.
Thanks guys! This is making much more sense now.
I have LOTS of nurglings, so I'm thinking of a list like this:
Exalted Flamer [5 PL, 70pts]: Fire of Tzeentch, Tongues of flame
Exalted Flamer [5 PL, 70pts]: Fire of Tzeentch, Tongues of flame
Exalted Flamer [5 PL, 70pts]: Fire of Tzeentch, Tongues of flame
ArcaneHorror wrote: Hey, I'm setting up a Tzeentch Daemon/Thousand Sons/CSM army and here's my list of forces (I may add three more Chaos Marines from the Easy to Build box). I haven't organized them yet, but I was wondering if you thought it was a good army or not. I was also hoping possibly for some advice on how I could organize it to make it most effective on the battlefield:
Tzaangors (20, with Tzaangor Blades)
Tzaangor Shaman (1, with Force Stave and Blade)
Tzaangor Enlightened (3, with Divining Spears and Blades)
Tzaangor Skyfires (3, with Fatecaster Greatbows): 51
Cultists: (5, 3 with Autoguns, 2 with Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons)
Kairic Cultists (10, with Brutal Assault Weapons)
Exalted Flamer (2)
Fateskimmer (2)
Changecaster (1)
Pink Horrors (12)
Blue Horrors (20)
Lord of Change with Baleful Sword (1)
Exalted Sorcerer [Special Vigilus Character] (1, with Inferno Bolt Pistol and Force Stave)
Kairos Fateweaver
Chaos Space Marine Squad (10, with Boltguns)
Well, first things first, I’m afraid Thousand Sons don’t have access to a bunch of these, specifically the Chaos Space Marines and Kafiristan Acolytes. The Acolytes would make fine Chaos Cultists, though - and a packet of five regular Cultists will get you up to 20, which means two cheap squads to sit back and hide on objectives or screen important stuff. Add the Tzaangors and Exalted Sorcerer and you’re one TS character (not a Tzaangors, I’m afraid) short of a Battalion, which is a good start - plenty of Command Points to play with.
As for the CSMs - they could perhaps pass for Rubric Marines, or maybe count them as one of the polytheist Legions? Sorry there’s not much role for them in a TS Detachment :(
That’s a decent contingent of Tzeentch Daemons, as well. There’s a lot of HQ units - in fact, too many to fit in a Battalion, so you’ll have to leave someone on the subs bench or build up to an extra detachment. Though, the ones you have... Pink Horrors are great, especially in a big unit. Blue Horrors don’t get much use, except as bodies for Pinks to turn into; I’m considering painting some of mine in pink and passing them off in a horde .
Brimstone Horrors would be another handy addition, as they make another cheap Troops unit to occupy space on the tabletop and build a Battalion.
The main hole I can see in what you have is limited anti-tank firepower. Kairos and a LoC can kick things over... if they reach them intact. Pretty big fire magnets, them. Lascannon-Missile Helbrutes just got a tasty points cut, they’re not bad at denting the big stuff?
Well, first things first, I’m afraid Thousand Sons don’t have access to a bunch of these, specifically the Chaos Space Marines and Kafiristan Acolytes. The Acolytes would make fine Chaos Cultists, though - and a packet of five regular Cultists will get you up to 20, which means two cheap squads to sit back and hide on objectives or screen important stuff. Add the Tzaangors and Exalted Sorcerer and you’re one TS character (not a Tzaangors, I’m afraid) short of a Battalion, which is a good start - plenty of Command Points to play with.
I could make the Chaos Marines into Rubrics, I think, although I like the fact that they have a smaller point value than Rubrics. Still, I was under the impression that generic CSM could fight in any Chaos army, as they could be Renegades fighting for a specific god. As for the Acolytes, I'm making them straight cultists, I was just separating them out for my own desires; they wouldn't have any specific abilities beyond regular cultists. What character or unit would you recommend that I use to complete my Battalion?
That’s a decent contingent of Tzeentch Daemons, as well. There’s a lot of HQ units - in fact, too many to fit in a Battalion, so you’ll have to leave someone on the subs bench or build up to an extra detachment. Though, the ones you have... Pink Horrors are great, especially in a big unit. Blue Horrors don’t get much use, except as bodies for Pinks to turn into; I’m considering painting some of mine in pink and passing them off in a horde .
Brimstone Horrors would be another handy addition, as they make another cheap Troops unit to occupy space on the tabletop and build a Battalion.
I was thinking tonight of replacing Kairos with more Horrors, either Pink or Brimstone.
The main hole I can see in what you have is limited anti-tank firepower. Kairos and a LoC can kick things over... if they reach them intact. Pretty big fire magnets, them. Lascannon-Missile Helbrutes just got a tasty points cut, they’re not bad at denting the big stuff?
For my Lord, I was thinking of giving him both Incorporeal Form and the Impossible Robe to be harder to damage. In terms of anti-tank stuff, I was thinking about that myself. I could put in a Helbrute or two.
I do have one other question. What exactly are the differences between Daemonic Icons and Instruments of Chaos? I'm pretty sure that the Icons are the banners and horns that some of the daemons carry, but I'm not sure how I could factor them into my army, or even if I want to, due to them costing points. As for the Instruments, are those the same as the Hellforged Artefacts? I know that Warlord Traits are free, but if Artefacts and Instruments are the same thing, then they cost points? This would affect my LoC due to the Impossible Robe, and anyone else I decide to give an Artefact to.
Ok, here is my new list. I'll be posting it in the Chaos Space Marines Thread as well for anyone who goes there but doesn't come here:
Tzaangors (20, 18 with Tzaangor Blades, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 165
Tzaangor Shaman (1, with Force Stave and Blade): 90
Tzaangor Enlightened (3, with Divining Spears and Blades): 48
Tzaangor Skyfires (3, with Fatecaster Greatbows): 51
Cultists: (5, 3 with Autoguns, 2 with Autopistols and Brutal Assault Weapons): 25
Kairic Cultists [treated exactly the same as regular Cultists] (10, with Brutal Assault Weapons): 50
Exalted Flamer (2): 140
Fateskimmer (2): 260
Changecaster (1): 65
Pink Horrors (12, 1 with Daemonic Icon and 1 with Instrument of Chaos): 109
Lord of Change with Baleful Sword (1): 275
Exalted Sorcerer [Special Character] (1): (with Inferno Bolt Pistol and Force Stave): 122
Chaos Space Marines [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (13) (with Boltguns): 130
Rubric Marines (10) (with Inferno Boltguns, one with Soulreaper Cannon): 193
Helbrute [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (1) (with Twinlascannon and Missile Launcher): 120
Chaos Terminator Lord [The Scourged Renegade Chapter] (1) (with Reaper Autocannon and Lightning Claw): 113
Yeah, the two monotheist Legions with Codices have both lost access to regular CSM - all DG Astartes infantry are now types of Plague Marines, and the only TS Astartes which survived the Rubric of Ahriman intact were Sorcerers.
As for second HQ recommendations for a TS Battalion - Daemon Prince with Wings, being TS gives it an extra psychic power, with eighteen powers to choose from. (Exalted Sorcerer On Disc is also really good.)
With your CSM being Scourged renegades, they could be in a TZEENTCH Battalion right now with your TS, buuuut that loses out on both faction’s Legion perks (the TS one is an excellent range boost for spells) - I’d recommend a third TS Troops unit so that you can keep them in a dedicated detachment (you could split the Rubrics into two units, or add five more Cultists).
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