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ArcaneHorror wrote: In the Legion of Skulls detachment, does the Brazen Skull stratagem act like an assault weapon? Because I would think that anything that puts a hold on bloodletters advancing and charging would be a liability.
It isnt any type of ranged weapon. You just roll for that models ballistic skill and if you succeed the enemy unit suffers D3 MW. It doesnt matter whether you advanced or not. It also doesnt matter if the legion of skulls model has a ranged weapon, or not (the ranged weapon isnt used for the stratagem). What matters is that it must have a ballistic skill.
Thanks, I just didn't want to mess up my charges.
I am currently looking into the skull altar. I had dismissed it for a while as an unnecessary points sink, but I'm rethinking it due to the fact that I am going to be running an army consisting heavily of both regular Khorne daemons, daemon engines, a CSM prince (all of my CSM is Iron Warriors), and a greater possessed, and the altar can buffs these as well. The summoning rule is going to be handy (my unmarked Master of Possession is going to be quite busy). I am curious though, do all psykers have to subtract one from their psychic tests when they are within eight inches of the altar, or just enemy ones? I don't want to accidentally cripple my unmarked MoP and sorcerer.
Does it say "Enemy Psykers" or just Psykers? Posting the text of the rule would help us know for sure.
'Subtract 1 from Psychic test taken for psykers when within 8" of any skull altars.'
ArcaneHorror wrote: In the Legion of Skulls detachment, does the Brazen Skull stratagem act like an assault weapon? Because I would think that anything that puts a hold on bloodletters advancing and charging would be a liability.
It isnt any type of ranged weapon. You just roll for that models ballistic skill and if you succeed the enemy unit suffers D3 MW. It doesnt matter whether you advanced or not. It also doesnt matter if the legion of skulls model has a ranged weapon, or not (the ranged weapon isnt used for the stratagem). What matters is that it must have a ballistic skill.
Thanks, I just didn't want to mess up my charges.
I am currently looking into the skull altar. I had dismissed it for a while as an unnecessary points sink, but I'm rethinking it due to the fact that I am going to be running an army consisting heavily of both regular Khorne daemons, daemon engines, a CSM prince (all of my CSM is Iron Warriors), and a greater possessed, and the altar can buffs these as well. The summoning rule is going to be handy (my unmarked Master of Possession is going to be quite busy). I am curious though, do all psykers have to subtract one from their psychic tests when they are within eight inches of the altar, or just enemy ones? I don't want to accidentally cripple my unmarked MoP and sorcerer.
Does it say "Enemy Psykers" or just Psykers? Posting the text of the rule would help us know for sure.
'Subtract 1 from Psychic test taken for psykers when within 8" of any skull altars.'
dan2026 wrote: Let's be honest. If you are running psykers in a Khorne army, you are looking for a clip round the ear.
Lol, you're probably right. I justify it fluff-wise in that the Iron Warriors are undivided.
The list below is an extremely fluffy, extremely casual army list that I put together last night; this is not something that I would use competitively. I just wanted to put all of my big Khorne guys together. The single remaining command point will be used to deepstrike in the skullmaster:
Spoiler:
World Eaters Supreme Command Detachment:
Lord Discordant (Khorne) [HQ] [Warlord: Violent Urgency] [Relic: Bloodhunger] Baleflamer, techno-virus injector – 170
Kharn the Betrayer [HQ] – 120
Daemon Prince (Khorne) [HQ]: Malefic talons – 165
Greater Possessed (Khorne): 60
Khorne Daemon Supreme Command Detachment:
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury [HQ] [Relic: Armour of Scorn] – 210
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [HQ]: Malefic talons – 165
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [HQ] [Relic – Skullreaver]: Daemonic Axe – 165
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Wings [HQ] [Relic – King of Blades]: Hellforged Sword – 165
Points: 1975
Command points: 1
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/10 13:32:41
Not Online!!! wrote: So maybee a bit nuts, but i wanted to know, since i am probably going to convert some splintered fangs / paint them in another sheme, and have absolutely no idea how to daemon, how would i make a small decent daemon battalion that works somewhat as a tack on to R&H / CSM?
Any tipps tricks interaction i need to be aware off?
Well, their poison and swarms aesthetic makes them something of a match for Nurgle, and there’s nothing wrong with a battalion of Plaguebearers and nurglings. Two regiment sets would get you a very useable contingent, providing deep strike / infiltrator screening and a robust meat shield.
Nurgle daemon heroes are fantastic companions to Nurgle daemon CSM hammer units due to their auras and Poxbringer spells. Stack some modifiers to wound and you can get some excellent damage output. Add a Gnarlmaw and you can make daemon engines and possessed advance and fall back and charge (and seriously anchor a front line objective); Oblits love extra damage and +2 cover save and nigh immunity to tarpitting.
If you want a super mobile aura broadcaster, flying DP’s your poison. Swooping in with some Maulerfiends and Lords Discordant is a fierce early game attack.
Not Online!!! wrote: So maybee a bit nuts, but i wanted to know, since i am probably going to convert some splintered fangs / paint them in another sheme, and have absolutely no idea how to daemon, how would i make a small decent daemon battalion that works somewhat as a tack on to R&H / CSM?
Any tipps tricks interaction i need to be aware off?
Well, their poison and swarms aesthetic makes them something of a match for Nurgle, and there’s nothing wrong with a battalion of Plaguebearers and nurglings. Two regiment sets would get you a very useable contingent, providing deep strike / infiltrator screening and a robust meat shield.
Nurgle daemon heroes are fantastic companions to Nurgle daemon CSM hammer units due to their auras and Poxbringer spells. Stack some modifiers to wound and you can get some excellent damage output. Add a Gnarlmaw and you can make daemon engines and possessed advance and fall back and charge (and seriously anchor a front line objective); Oblits love extra damage and +2 cover save and nigh immunity to tarpitting.
If you want a super mobile aura broadcaster, flying DP’s your poison. Swooping in with some Maulerfiends and Lords Discordant is a fierce early game attack.
Just one issue, i ain't nurgle I am khorne or undivided.
Also magmatic Black Look doesn't really fit nurgle.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Are Plague Toads from FW worth it anymore? They seem /super/ overpriced compared to the Beasts of Nurgle, which fills basically the same role as far as I can tell, just with different bonuses and way cheaper.
vaklor4 wrote: Are Plague Toads from FW worth it anymore? They seem /super/ overpriced compared to the Beasts of Nurgle, which fills basically the same role as far as I can tell, just with different bonuses and way cheaper.
Plague Toads are very similar. They do hit much harder than beasts on average. The money is in Plague Riders. I have been using a squad of 9 plague riders to fantastic effect.
Can i use summoning to summon understrenght units, like paying 3 reinforcement points to summon a single brimstone?
Could`t find a clear ruling but would tend to this being not legal.
Anything i have missed here?
grouchoben wrote: Well no, the unit data sheet clearly states the minimum number of models in a unit, I don't see why that limit would be violated by summoning.
There is no minimum number of models in a unit.
Page 242 – Understrength Units
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If you are using Power Ratings, you must still pay the
Power Rating cost as if you had a minimum-sized unit,
even though it contains fewer models. If you are using
points, you only pay the points for the models you
actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear
they are equipped with). An understrength unit still
takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment. If you are
playing a matched play game, you can only include an
understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment.’
A summoned unit is not part of a detachment, i see nothing saying you cant summon one brimstone horror.
Hello all. I am back with news that I am going to a GT with Mono-Slaanesh! I have only played in one other tournament, which was a doubles with my buddy who plays Tzeentch. We managed to get to the finals table in our first tournament ever and it got me excited to try a bigger, full fledged tournament! I will provide my list and the theory behind it - then provide an update after the tournament on March 14-15!
Why I chose what I chose:
My theory with Slaanesh is that overwhelming speed, waves of forces & pressuring the opponent are the way to win. Particularly since I am likely to encounter less fluffy armies than I am used to that are going to want to castle against me. SO..
Syll'Esske - Obvious. A herald + DP that obliterates things and is made to accompany my Daemonettes. Let's me reroll morale to get models back. Not a whole lot more to say here - Syll'Esske is a must take if you're taking Daemonettes.
Infernal Enrapturess: Only taken because she gives me an even 2k - The Masque put me 8 points over with the new cost from CA19 (lame). But I believe she will provide some pivotal psyker defense and maybe will let me get a model or two back. She will also be great at summoning if I want to save CP on deep striking.
Daemonettes: Bread and butter. Fast and lots of them lets me spread out on objectives while I rush at my opponent. If they get in relatively unmolested it is always game over. Specially since it comes in as a wave of potentially 60 Daemonettes with Syll'Esske.
Seekers: A pressure unit meant to draw fire and worry my opponent, as well as accompany my Keepers. I've noticed people at all levels I have played with are surprised when they actually encounter the speed of my force as a blob. The Keepers + Seekers + Epitome will move a minimum of 14-16" and will advance and charge for an average of 18"+12" charge. Which is a maximum threat range of 34" with the +1 to advance and charge with the musicians.. as well as a free reroll on charges. I don't expect them to kill much (though they have surprised me).
Exalted Chariots: This is where I have had disagreements with fellow Slaanesh players. Everyone considers them garbage but they have done a shocking amount of work for me and they are surprisingly resilient (something this army lacks in general). Combined with how cheap they are - along with their speed - 12"+advance+charge they will be right behind the Seekers & Keepers and ready to pump 16 attacks out a turn. As a blob of 3 - they sit at 36 wounds to chew through. If they aren't dealt with it's 48 attacks coming at you with potential AP -4's for half of them. I treat them as a distraction unit again but they CAN do work if ignored (thus forcing the choice).
Keepers + Shalaxi: Pretty simple. Get them in and let them do their thing - they are absolute monsters in combat. I am imagining having an easy time hiding them with the weird L things that ITC rules have. If not - I can summon or deep strike them. Either way - run up and smash - simple.
Epitome - The attendant to my Keepers and Seekers. Warlord with celerity to assure it keeps up. Forbidden Gem because it's cool and brutal if it works. Just does work and helps out - keeps things stuck in combat if I make it there.
Gameplan: Movement and charge phases win me the game. Use my movement to my advantage, use LOS to my advantage, then pounce with my overwhelming speed. I should have the speed to get up and hide in the L or behind ruins. And also have the speed to get around it and pounce. Yes I know some armies have a unit or two that are faster - but Slaanesh has the entire army able to move at a surprising speed.. but we shall see!
Meta: I have no sense of the meta in my area - and the meta seems to have changed recently anyway. So let's find out together in my report next weekend!
**EDIT** - Does anyone with familiarity with ITC missions have an opinion on what the best deployment map would be for me? I tend to bulk my units up in blobs/waves... so Keepers + Seeekers + Epitome, then Chariots on the flanks, then Daemonettes and rest bunched up as a third wave.
I think Search & Destroy will be my best bet but I welcome ideas.
Thanks guys!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/06 19:57:05
It looks like a fun list to play!
I’ve tried a similar list with 3 keepers and 3 x 25 bloodletters with some csm camping cultists and it worked wonders. You will have better synergy then me with all Slaanesh.
Just to be clear, you have a list with 2000p so you can NOT summon anything just to save cp on DS. And you can not take out the things you spoke of to do the summoning as the detachment demands. Read the post above yours.
Your biggest problem I can see is IH and Tau with all their shooting, but if they don’t screen good enough you will reach them and start the slaughter.
Personally I would take the “sinister hand” for the keeper just too be able to heal it up and punish the enemy for not killing it.
Then I would change Shalaxi for another keeper with same setup. Don’t know how many points it is but around 20...? So you can take the Masque instead of enrapturess.
Maybe go for 2x30 demonettes and 2x10 for backfield camping so the enemy won’t have any place to DS.
Hope you have a great time and do well!! Come back later with a report!
Tazberry wrote: It looks like a fun list to play!
I’ve tried a similar list with 3 keepers and 3 x 25 bloodletters with some csm camping cultists and it worked wonders. You will have better synergy then me with all Slaanesh.
Just to be clear, you have a list with 2000p so you can NOT summon anything just to save cp on DS. And you can not take out the things you spoke of to do the summoning as the detachment demands. Read the post above yours.
Your biggest problem I can see is IH and Tau with all their shooting, but if they don’t screen good enough you will reach them and start the slaughter.
Personally I would take the “sinister hand” for the keeper just too be able to heal it up and punish the enemy for not killing it.
Then I would change Shalaxi for another keeper with same setup. Don’t know how many points it is but around 20...? So you can take the Masque instead of enrapturess.
Maybe go for 2x30 demonettes and 2x10 for backfield camping so the enemy won’t have any place to DS.
Hope you have a great time and do well!! Come back later with a report!
Oh that's interesting - so I can't just remove the Keepers from play and leave those points as just available. The gap in points has to be preassigned... well deep striking it is then if it comes to that. Thanks for that heads up!
I thought about the hand - but there's a neat trick with the whip just in case I somehow get up in someones face without being too hurt. With the whip I can shoot into melee even if the Keeper is blocked by my swarm of other stuff lol. I'll likely give her the Soul Stealer relic a lot of the time. I know it's -1 str but that's what Shalaxi and Syll'Esske are for.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/10 13:28:48
grouchoben wrote: Well no, the unit data sheet clearly states the minimum number of models in a unit, I don't see why that limit would be violated by summoning.
There is no minimum number of models in a unit.
Page 242 – Understrength Units
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If you are using Power Ratings, you must still pay the
Power Rating cost as if you had a minimum-sized unit,
even though it contains fewer models. If you are using
points, you only pay the points for the models you
actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear
they are equipped with). An understrength unit still
takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment. If you are
playing a matched play game, you can only include an
understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment.’
A summoned unit is not part of a detachment, i see nothing saying you cant summon one brimstone horror.
Although if you are playing matched play "you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment" (2 sentences after the section in red), so you wouldn't be able to summon only one brimstone. And if you aren't playing matched play, you don't pay points, so why limit yourself to a single model?
Although if you are playing matched play "you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment" (2 sentences after the section in red), so you wouldn't be able to summon only one brimstone. And if you aren't playing matched play, you don't pay points, so why limit yourself to a single model?
Summoned units arent part of a detachment, they are a newly created unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/12 06:55:15
Although if you are playing matched play "you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment" (2 sentences after the section in red), so you wouldn't be able to summon only one brimstone. And if you aren't playing matched play, you don't pay points, so why limit yourself to a single model?
Summoned units arent part of a detachment, they are a newly created unit.
Where does it specify that? I looked in the FAQ for the Daemons Codex and did not see it. :(
Although if you are playing matched play "you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment" (2 sentences after the section in red), so you wouldn't be able to summon only one brimstone. And if you aren't playing matched play, you don't pay points, so why limit yourself to a single model?
Summoned units arent part of a detachment, they are a newly created unit.
So long as we're being extremely specific and RAW, if summoned units aren't part of a detachment, then they're evidently not part of an Auxiliary Support Detachment, which is the requirement for being able to use them in a matched play game. That part at least is very clear--no Auxiliary Detachment, no understrength unit.
Although if you are playing matched play "you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment" (2 sentences after the section in red), so you wouldn't be able to summon only one brimstone. And if you aren't playing matched play, you don't pay points, so why limit yourself to a single model?
Summoned units arent part of a detachment, they are a newly created unit.
So long as we're being extremely specific and RAW, if summoned units aren't part of a detachment, then they're evidently not part of an Auxiliary Support Detachment, which is the requirement for being able to use them in a matched play game. That part at least is very clear--no Auxiliary Detachment, no understrength unit.
The FAQ shows that a unit of summoned daemons is not part of a detachment, otherwise you would lose your legion trait. In addition, the summoning rules dont say that summoned units are added to a detachment.
Q: If I take a unit of Daemons in a Chaos Space Marines
Detachment, do I lose my Legion Trait?
A: Yes. However, if you summon a unit of Daemons and
add them to your army, doing so does not affect your
Legion Trait.
Also, detachments are irrelevant after deployment, there are no rules to affect detachments after that point.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/03/13 09:32:09
But there’s a faq (somewhere) that says that a unit that been summoned do not gain detachment bonuses and loci. So if you have a full Slaanesh detachment and summon a character, that character do not give locus so you can advance and charge.
Can’t remember if there’s a faq for pink horrors split rule. So that you DS the pinks and then charge and in overwatch killing a pink making 2 blue horrors and putting them closer to the target and thus only need a 6 or 7 on the charge.
Tazberry wrote: But there’s a faq (somewhere) that says that a unit that been summoned do not gain detachment bonuses and loci. So if you have a full Slaanesh detachment and summon a character, that character do not give locus so you can advance and charge.
I remember reading that FAQ, but i just cant find it.
Can’t remember if there’s a faq for pink horrors split rule. So that you DS the pinks and then charge and in overwatch killing a pink making 2 blue horrors and putting them closer to the target and thus only need a 6 or 7 on the charge.
It is indeed possible to place blue and brimstone horrors nearer towards the enemy unit, in unit coherency, but not within 1" of enemy models. If one pink horror is killed, and you split it into two blue horrors you get a 2-3" charge, depending on base size.
Tazberry wrote: But there’s a faq (somewhere) that says that a unit that been summoned do not gain detachment bonuses and loci. So if you have a full Slaanesh detachment and summon a character, that character do not give locus so you can advance and charge.
I remember reading that FAQ, but i just cant find it.
Can’t remember if there’s a faq for pink horrors split rule. So that you DS the pinks and then charge and in overwatch killing a pink making 2 blue horrors and putting them closer to the target and thus only need a 6 or 7 on the charge.
It is indeed possible to place blue and brimstone horrors nearer towards the enemy unit, in unit coherency, but not within 1" of enemy models. If one pink horror is killed, and you split it into two blue horrors you get a 2-3" charge, depending on base size.
It is NOT in the Daemons FAQ/Eratta - if you can't find it - is it possible it is either now an out-of-date FAQ that has been removed or it was specific to summoning as CSM?
It makes no sense they wouldn't be part of the detachement or get the Loci rule if pure Daemons summon... Daemons... let alone the rule conundrum - it's unfluffy! lol
Tazberry wrote: But there’s a faq (somewhere) that says that a unit that been summoned do not gain detachment bonuses and loci. So if you have a full Slaanesh detachment and summon a character, that character do not give locus so you can advance and charge.
I remember reading that FAQ, but i just cant find it.
Can’t remember if there’s a faq for pink horrors split rule. So that you DS the pinks and then charge and in overwatch killing a pink making 2 blue horrors and putting them closer to the target and thus only need a 6 or 7 on the charge.
It is indeed possible to place blue and brimstone horrors nearer towards the enemy unit, in unit coherency, but not within 1" of enemy models. If one pink horror is killed, and you split it into two blue horrors you get a 2-3" charge, depending on base size.
It is NOT in the Daemons FAQ/Eratta - if you can't find it - is it possible it is either now an out-of-date FAQ that has been removed or it was specific to summoning as CSM?
It makes no sense they wouldn't be part of the detachement or get the Loci rule if pure Daemons summon... Daemons... let alone the rule conundrum - it's unfluffy! lol
Regardless of if there is a FAQ about it, you would need a rule that allows the summoned unit to be added to a detachment. As that does not exist you can't add it to a detachment and get the detachments benifits.
What the rules say, and what "makes sense" often don't line up. For example, adding CSM Daemon Engines to a daemon list breaks loci and other benifits even though "it makes sense" that you would keep them - the rules don't allow it.
So I participated in a GT that was ITC format this weekend and I did.... shockingly well. It was my first tournament as a single player! My only other tournament and time playing ITC was a small doubles tournament.
List:
Spoiler:
Mono-Daemons of Slaanesh
Batallion:
Syll'Esske
Enrapturess
3x 25 Daemonettes
2x 10 Seekers
3x Exalted Chariots
Supreme Command:
Shalaxi
Keeper w/ Whip
Contorted Epitome
Results:
3/5 Games Won.
Opponets:
Game 1: Aeldari/Drukhari/Harlequin soup (one of the better/best players of this soup in the region actually - so I was proud I held my own. Shocker: He ended up on the finalists table haha)
Loss: 28-18
Game 2: Drukari/Aeldari/Ynnari
Won: 32-10
Game 3: Space Wolves/Inquestor Imperialis
Loss: 7-36
Game 4: Tau (Bork'an)
Won: 15-10 (Slow game - but I was on the path to score more. Only got 2 rounds in. Likely would have tabled him).
Game 5: Adeptus Astartes (White Scars)
Won: 39-15
Totals:
BP:111 - W:3 - L: 2
I can write more detailed reports if people are interested.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/03/16 04:20:54
Please do write more.
Break down units, if they where good/bad and their role. What people tried to focus on and what to think about in certain matches.
You lost vs Aeldari but you still won against another one. Was it that much different list or was the players so different?
What and how do you think you would change the list if you where going again next weekend? And why?
I play in europe so no ITC, just tournaments with CA missions.
My matches was
-orks won 16-4
-tyr won 16-4
-Tau won 12-8
-demons Pb spam+Ts draw 10-10
-Ig lost 8-12
-marines (ultra) lost 6-14
-chaos won 20-0
-eldar won 13-7
-drukari won 18-2
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/03/17 20:48:21
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
