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Cephalobeard wrote: Well, literally almost every Tzeentch unit has fly and can simply charge the planes to keep them from shooting. Otherwise, smite and high strength weaponry would likely do just fine.
Models that can Fly can fall back and still shoot, though. I'm pretty sure it's just that you can fight Airborne units with fliers, I can't find anything saying that doing so removes the ability to fall back and shoot.
Honestly, it feels pretty solid. Changeling gives everyone -1 to be hit, you still hide heralds behind horrors and Aetaos, while he tosses off huge shots at the large wound targets you'd have issues smiting. I... Kind of like it.
May I ask what are your plans to capture/mantain objectives? I run similar units and I am wondering how to do this (I am quite noob) but so far I found a lot of threads about unit power and not so many about general tactics and how to use units on the different missions.
I guess summoning daemons will work to steal objectives from the enemy thanks to the high movility on Tzeench units, but... how to keep your own? Do you park a horrors unit on your objectives near your deployment zone or you just wait to turns 3-4 to send the units there?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/01 20:58:47
Cephalobeard wrote: Well, literally almost every Tzeentch unit has fly and can simply charge the planes to keep them from shooting. Otherwise, smite and high strength weaponry would likely do just fine.
Models that can Fly can fall back and still shoot, though. I'm pretty sure it's just that you can fight Airborne units with fliers, I can't find anything saying that doing so removes the ability to fall back and shoot.
Honestly, it feels pretty solid. Changeling gives everyone -1 to be hit, you still hide heralds behind horrors and Aetaos, while he tosses off huge shots at the large wound targets you'd have issues smiting. I... Kind of like it.
May I ask what are your plans to capture/mantain objectives? I run similar units and I am wondering how to do this (I am quite noob) but so far I found a lot of threads about unit power and not so many about general tactics and how to use units on the different missions.
I guess summoning daemons will work to steal objectives from the enemy thanks to the high movility on Tzeench units, but... how to keep your own? Do you park a horrors unit on your objectives near your deployment zone or you just wait to turns 3-4 to send the units there?
Keep 1-2 backfield horror units. You screen them starting from deployment so you can't be deep struck on, and tend to keep them back there. This list also leaves 20-40pts or so so you can summon 10-20 more Brimstones during the match.
In all the games I've played with other lists so far, I've tended to have 1-2 small squads left at the end of the game to take points, or simply been able to move+advance a herald back to one.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/01 21:01:34
Keep 1-2 backfield horror units. You screen them starting from deployment so you can't be deep struck on, and tend to keep them back there. This list also leaves 20-40pts or so so you can summon 10-20 more Brimstones during the match.
In all the games I've played with other lists so far, I've tended to have 1-2 small squads left at the end of the game to take points, or simply been able to move+advance a herald back to one.
That makes a lot of sense. With such amount of Heralds on Disc you can literally cross the whole table with one of them to secure objectives at the end of the match. I was even considering to bring some cultists or even Tzaangors as a cheap way to park big units on your deployment zone but I would be happy to use those points for more versatile options (and more Smite!)
I just bought an Archaon I'm going to convert in to Aetaos (exchanging the khorne/Nurgle head for two more Tzeentch heads), and I'll likely get in a game with him next weekend (if shipping isn't delayed).
Cephalobeard wrote: I just bought an Archaon I'm going to convert in to Aetaos (exchanging the khorne/Nurgle head for two more Tzeentch heads), and I'll likely get in a game with him next weekend (if shipping isn't delayed).
Greater Unclean One Review
Today and yesterday I played 'fattie' in four games. In every game, he was exceptional -- winning the MVP in 3/4 of my games. This post will talk about what I found to be really good with him, where his weak, and how I've found to best use him.
Durability
'Fattie' did not want to die. In all four games, he was only killed once -- and that took the entire enemy army shooting at him three game turns in a row.
The reason for this is twofold. First, he is just tough -- a T7 model with a 5++/DR and 12 wounds takes a while to burn though. I also continues to cast 'Fleshy Abundance' on him to heal the wounds delt. In one game, I cast the power 5 turns in a row healing 10 wounds -- meaning it took my opponents 22 wounds to kill him.
Move 7"
'Fattie' was not nearly as slow as one might think. Even on hammer and anvil games, he was able to get into assault by turn 3 in every game. I was honestly concerned he would be shot to pieces going in, but he never had any problems.
Plague Fail
This is am amazing tool in the GUO's toolkit. Firstly, it's an assault 2 7" range weapon with a STR 6, -3AP, DMG 2. If you have a herald nearby, it becomes a STR 7 weapon. This is really useful against things like tanks for flyers, since the GUO is hitting on a 2+. Since it's assault you can also use it the turn you advanced.
You can use this flail while you are engaged in assault, it's like having a pistol that gets 2 extra attacks.
It can also target unit's that are in assault. In one game I moved so the closest model was a priest, who was engaged with my plaguebearers. The priest was the closest target, so I killed it in the shooting phase preventing the aura giving all the nearby guard +1 attack in the shooting phase. 'Fattie' then assaulted the guard, wrecking the squad.
Bilesword
This STR 7 weapon (STR 8 if you have a herald) tore upon a plethera of enemies in my games. It destroyed Pask (twice!). It wrecked Yarrik. It killed a hive tyrant. It killed a Tau Commander, and many other targets. The Bilesword is a fantastic weapon. It's hitting on 2s, and rerolling failed wounds. It's -3 AP value combined with a d6 wounds means that I was throwing 14 wounds on targets like LRBTs. It was complete money.
It's actually much better than a deamon princes toolkit for wrecking vehicles, because the prince -- while hitting more often, only is doing 2 wounds with a -2 rend. The bilesword has less attacks, but is wounding more often, and is doing 3.5 wounds per failed save -- which is combined with a better rend.
The bottom line is that the bilesword rips apart armor extremely well.
Nurglings
The d6 attacks from nurglings on the GUO are just hilarious. They killed an insane amount of guard this weekend in all unexpected places. Sure, they are only STR 2 attacks (rerolling 1s) but you do get d6 attacks and they hit on 2s...
Smite
Smite is such a good tool. In one game, my opponent flew his hemlock fighter by herald and GUO. I then threw 4 mortal wounds on him from two smites. On the following round, I threw 4 more wounds on the fighter with smites the assaulted it with plague drones and killed it. Smite made this possible. It's not the only reason to take the GUO, but having an extra smite is always nice.
Aura
It is worth mentioning that the LD10 aura proved very useful when having him nearby a squad of plague bearers. It made a big difference in keeping them around.
The weaknesses
I lost a shocking amount of wounds to massed conscript fire. 35 conscripts using 'FRFSRF' did a shockingly large amount of wounds. (2-3) In assault the conscripts were able to do consistant damage.
The lascannons, MLs and battle cannons were a problem as well, but in our games they just did not come up as often. In all my games, he took more wounds from small arms fire than large fire.
I had the same experiences vs. conscripts with Aetaos'rau'keres. Volume of fire is surprisingly lethal to the big daemon models, it's honestly scarier than actual anti-heavy fire like lascannons since we can just save those fairly easily and command reroll if we don't.
I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.
Virules wrote: I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.
Hmmm, interesting feedback on the GUO. You would have thought it would be that difficult to take down a 10 wound T7 GUO, even with the 5++ I guess the DR helps alot.
The GUO is also cheap enough in points such that the is plenty in the rest of the army to worry about.
Overall, I find him to be very effective both against tough characters and hordes. The 4+ chance to deal 3 mortal wounds is great against units with high invul saves, and mortal wounds combined with Ld debuff aura will destroy mass infantry as well.
Also, his special rule that allows him to fall back and still charge combines very well with the 'Legendary Fighter' warlord trait. This mean you can still get +1 attack even when locked in combat by falling back and charge in again.
Does disgustingly resilient protect you from mortal wounds ?
Edit: The way Mephiston seemingly has the same ability but worded different threw me off (since his specifically mentions mortal wounds, though I assume they streamlined the wording after they wrote his sheet)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 16:38:02
What are Plaguebearers and Nurglings like to support a shooting CSM list?
To deal with hordes I'm taking a dual gatling cannon Knight & 3x dual soulburner Decimators and I need something tough to screen them.
I was thinking of 30 Plaguebearers as a screen with a Herald. -1 to hit, T4, S5 and 5+/5+ is better than Cultists. Herald can restore wounds to the Decimators if I mark them as Nurgle.
Then use 2x6 units of Nurglings to secure objectives and screen areas I might want to hold my opponent up at. That, or just bubble wrap against Deep Strikers.
Virules wrote: I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.
Aetos was my swiss army knife and was key to dealing with all the flying vehicle spam. I also used him to multi assault armies with lots of MSU infantry. When possibly, I used treason of tzeentch to multi assault with an enemy character first to minimize overwatch. I forgot that Zara bleeds over on mortal wounds, which would have helped. Magnus died 2/3 games, Zara in 1/3, Aetos never died. I'm changing up my list a bit for a big GT next week.
Virules wrote: I won an 18 person ITC tournament today against some very active local and national tournament players. I finished just ahead of the same guy who won the GT in Idaho last week. I beat a list just like it in the final game, in pretty brutal fashion. I used Aetos and he was great.
Aetos was my swiss army knife and was key to dealing with all the flying vehicle spam. I also used him to multi assault armies with lots of MSU infantry. When possibly, I used treason of tzeentch to multi assault with an enemy character first to minimize overwatch. I forgot that Zara bleeds over on mortal wounds, which would have helped. Magnus died 2/3 games, Zara in 1/3, Aetos never died. I'm changing up my list a bit for a big GT next week.
I noticed you plan to use exalted chariots over regular ones, I happen to own 7 seeker chariots and and a pair of exalted chariots and I wondered if you would be willing to share your idea with me. For your monoslaanesh list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 21:56:34
Glad they fixed that. Definitely makes him worthwhile over a LOC now IMO
How do you justify him over Magnus though? The D3 extra command points and leadership sharing don't seem to justify being less durable and decidedly less killy in every other phase of the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I apologize for consistently harping on this subject, but I'm still really salty about Fateweavers sidegrade from versatile force multiplier toolbox to sub par beatstick.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/02 22:14:36
My Chaos Space Marines showcase so far: 
