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I'm hoping aetaos doesn't get banned, while not off the charts op, he's definitely a staple in my list and I'm not sure what replaces him if he gets banned. Magnus just doesn't cut it, yes his save is technically better with the Weaver of fate spell but he also takes more wounds from multi damage weapons hands down from being t7 instead of t8, add on him being less than 20 wounds, and without the amazing gun. Just doesn't work. What to do if yes banned...


As a side note I'm using a third party counts as with a very well done base that zero people have complained about that clock my aetaos in at 8 5/6" in height and an 8" wingspan. I know actual model is 9.5" tall but I feel I got it close enough without the base looking like a ridiculous skyscraper xD

Ecdain wrote:
I'm hoping aetaos doesn't get banned, while not off the charts op, he's definitely a staple in my list and I'm not sure what replaces him if he gets banned. Magnus just doesn't cut it, yes his save is technically better with the Weaver of fate spell but he also takes more wounds from multi damage weapons hands down from being t7 instead of t8, add on him being less than 20 wounds, and without the amazing gun. Just doesn't work. What to do if yes banned...


As a side note I'm using a third party counts as with a very well done base that zero people have complained about that clock my aetaos in at 8 5/6" in height and an 8" wingspan. I know actual model is 9.5" tall but I feel I got it close enough without the base looking like a ridiculous skyscraper xD

I would hope that if someone did have an issue with it, you would instantly concede the point as you even just now admit there is an inch of difference.

In 7th it wouldnt matter, as you measure things from the base. In 8th, you measure LOS from any point on the model. You using a smaller model is actively modeling for advantage, as you do not have the appropriate dimensions for the model and are reducing your hitbox as a result.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Ecdain wrote:
I'm hoping aetaos doesn't get banned, while not off the charts op, he's definitely a staple in my list and I'm not sure what replaces him if he gets banned. Magnus just doesn't cut it, yes his save is technically better with the Weaver of fate spell but he also takes more wounds from multi damage weapons hands down from being t7 instead of t8, add on him being less than 20 wounds, and without the amazing gun. Just doesn't work. What to do if yes banned...


As a side note I'm using a third party counts as with a very well done base that zero people have complained about that clock my aetaos in at 8 5/6" in height and an 8" wingspan. I know actual model is 9.5" tall but I feel I got it close enough without the base looking like a ridiculous skyscraper xD

I would hope that if someone did have an issue with it, you would instantly concede the point as you even just now admit there is an inch of difference.

In 7th it wouldnt matter, as you measure things from the base. In 8th, you measure LOS from any point on the model. You using a smaller model is actively modeling for advantage, as you do not have the appropriate dimensions for the model and are reducing your hitbox as a result.

It it was ever an issue I wouldn't have brought it as I send pictures in specifically to ask about my counts as to make they are perfectly legal, and if you want to get really technical I am 1/2"+1/6" off, not a whole inch, the fw LoC model is NOT sold as aetaos so it's nothing more than general agreement that that is probably what he is(yes he probably is but it's not sold as such so I can make this argument), also in a game or modeling and painting, rule of cool does have a huge impact. I am not taking a gw LoC at 2.5" too short. I looked long and hard for a properly sized and great looking model and not a single person, opponent, judge organizer or bystander has had anything but great things to say about him. And honestly if you are trying to take a model I clearly put a huge amount of work into off the table due to less than an inch in height difference, even though the wings are a full inch wider in span I'd pack up and apologize for wasting your time and not play you again casually (as again, in tourney's I send in pictures for pre approval so no matter how my opponent bitches i know I'm good). Sorry if that sounded aggressive, but he's already impossible to hide behind anything but the largest of full Loss blocking pieces, less than an inch in height can't even be considered modeling for advantage at that point because it gives you no advantage.

On a slightly more constructive note, what model are you using as your counts-as? I have a Creature Caster Vulture Demon that is just shy of 9" tall, so he's in the right ballpark--he has a much slimmer profile though, with his wings extended upward rather than out wide. I think I'd just concede that if you want to draw line of sight to him, you probably can, because I haven't seen too many tournament terrain pieces that provide over 9" of vertical line of sight blocking.

The argument that the "Forgeworld Greater Lord of Change" is not "Aetaos'rau'keres, Greater Lord of Change" is certainly an argument you CAN make, but it's a very bad one. It happens all the time, though.

In the end, you're correct. It comes down to the TO.

My comment came from yours, where you listed the size, so I will happily concede that now that you've provided better context and that the model is much closer in size than before, I would likely okay the model if it was up to me.

I'm a pretty staunch "GW/FW models only, Conversions must be as close to exact as possible" proponent, and in the instance of 30+ PL, 700+pt Mega Models, that opinion is even Harsher.

I understand that may be frustrating, and I take no offense at you coming off as aggressive. The burden of a conversion is not on your opponent to accept it, but for you to provide an appropriate model.

To add a little more context here, even I have considered converting an Aetaos. I'm not AGAINST Converting an Aetaos. I just want to make sure it's being done fairly if it's happening at all. I was going to convert an Archaon.

I am looking at converting a Nagash, myself. I think it will fit with my Night Lords aesthetic much better and it seems size wise I can make it work pretty well (with the added wings from a zombie dragon).

 Cephalobeard wrote:
The argument that the "Forgeworld Greater Lord of Change" is not "Aetaos'rau'keres, Greater Lord of Change" is certainly an argument you CAN make, but it's a very bad one. It happens all the time, though.

In the end, you're correct. It comes down to the TO.

My comment came from yours, where you listed the size, so I will happily concede that now that you've provided better context and that the model is much closer in size than before, I would likely okay the model if it was up to me.

I'm a pretty staunch "GW/FW models only, Conversions must be as close to exact as possible" proponent, and in the instance of 30+ PL, 700+pt Mega Models, that opinion is even Harsher.

I understand that may be frustrating, and I take no offense at you coming off as aggressive. The burden of a conversion is not on your opponent to accept it, but for you to provide an appropriate model.

To add a little more context here, even I have considered converting an Aetaos. I'm not AGAINST Converting an Aetaos. I just want to make sure it's being done fairly if it's happening at all. I was going to convert an Archaon.

I generally agree with a slight add on that conversions, to the best of your ability without ruining the model, need a minimum 25% gw plastic, for mine I was actually going to give him a second wings from the gw LoC to both add height and get plastic. But it would just look framed together so I opted out of that option. For my other counts as such as giant chaos spawn it's easier as AoS has fantastic counts as (mutalith for my tzeentch and morbidex for my nurgle). But with aetaos' I really did search for a solid 2-3 months for the best counts as I could find as I hate the fw LoC(looks too lanky and wings have practically no feather detail). I understand bad counts as are basically just proxies that shouldn't be used outside friendly games but I put really effort into mine and most of the time at a higher cost than the actual model(looking at you giant chaos spawn)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sokhar wrote:
On a slightly more constructive note, what model are you using as your counts-as? I have a Creature Caster Vulture Demon that is just shy of 9" tall, so he's in the right ballpark--he has a much slimmer profile though, with his wings extended upward rather than out wide. I think I'd just concede that if you want to draw line of sight to him, you probably can, because I haven't seen too many tournament terrain pieces that provide over 9" of vertical line of sight blocking.

Proteanc, Fickle Lord of Uroboros from mierce miniatures. He clocks in a bit short(6.75") but my brother did an amazing job hiking him up on a demonic cliff using pink foam, small obsidian pieces, and green stuff fire sculpting to make up for the height. Which is a main reason I don't raise his base more, can't have it so high he's on a skyscraper xD gak would be silly.

I think all the things we've discussed have been very constructive, well done internet.

Also I think using Nagash is an interesting take, and he's likely large enough.

I also like nagash, he seems like a great counts as with some wings. I might convert the head to a bird but I don't play night lords

Ecdain wrote:
I also like nagash, he seems like a great counts as with some wings. I might convert the head to a bird but I don't play night lords

I think I'm going to use the bat-like skull from the Mortarchs. It actually fits quite well.

Sokhar wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Well... I'm bringing him to a tourny (where they've capped units to PL35).

Any idea what that other poster meant that Aetaos "murders" hordes??? I think I'm missing something...

Aetaos only has 6 attacks at full strength. o.O

Massacre might have been a bit of an overstatement vs hordes, but the ability for his claws to inflict 3 mortal wounds (which spill over from one model to the next) helps him kill more stuff than just his raw attacks value would indicate. Not as well as Zarakynel would, but Aetao has the sweet shooting attack that can still be used while in close combat.

didn't realize that they were mortal wounds. Up to 18 mortal wounds is kinda knarly (if you roll six 6s that is).

Thanks!!

Ecdain wrote:

Proteanc, Fickle Lord of Uroboros from mierce miniatures.

Nice! Never seen that model before, he's really cool. Definitely seems appropriate in his look for Aetao. I didn't purchase the Creature Caster demon for the purpose of proxying Aetao, just supported the Never-Ending Kickstarter Campaign years back, and trying to find a use for the models I got stuck with.

Speaking of Magnus conversions, someone at the tournament I attended last weekend had the sweetest Magnus I've seen. Used Nagash as the base for the floating/flying portion of him, had the 30K Heresy Magnus body, a daemonic head added on, and even had LED lights in the chest. Pretty spectacular, if costly conversion.

Ecdain wrote:
I'm hoping aetaos doesn't get banned, while not off the charts op, he's definitely a staple in my list and I'm not sure what replaces him if he gets banned. Magnus just doesn't cut it, yes his save is technically better with the Weaver of fate spell but he also takes more wounds from multi damage weapons hands down from being t7 instead of t8, add on him being less than 20 wounds, and without the amazing gun. Just doesn't work. What to do if yes banned...


As a side note I'm using a third party counts as with a very well done base that zero people have complained about that clock my aetaos in at 8 5/6" in height and an 8" wingspan. I know actual model is 9.5" tall but I feel I got it close enough without the base looking like a ridiculous skyscraper xD

So almost every top placing daemons list having Magnus means everyone is stupid I guess... They are clearly not seeing something you are.
You cannot argue with results...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the character lists will soon be geting the bat taken to them as per FLG, like the fliers lists. Whamp whump..........

For like the nth time, No, Magnus isn't necessary. Stop talking down to people about pointing out his flaws, Rvd. You do it almost every single time someone mentions it.

He isn't necessary. He dies. He's strong, he can carry you, he isn't required.

It's just a single unit. Let it go.

So I had my first game of 8th. I was 2000pt against Dark Eldar.

I ran:
Supreme command detachment with
Magnus
GUO
X3 Nurgle princes with wings and claws
6 flamers

Battalion detachment with:
Changling
x2 tzeentch heralds on foot with staff
3 units of blue horrors (I do not have any brimstones yet)
x2 flaming chariots

I do not have his army list but it consisted of:
multiple units of 5 scourges that deepstruck in with their dark lances
many HQs with the forcefield that grants a 2+ invul until it fails and a nasty pistol that causes multiple wounds
each HQ was next to the court- units of 4 or 5 with 4 wounds each and multiple attacks each
extra units of witches

Overall I lost, far more to my poor tactics than the army. He got the first turn and poured all his dark lance fire and other firepower into Magnus who only survived because of the Changeling. The GUO also took damage. I was too overconfident in my CC abilities. I moved forward too fast and fluffed my charge roles meaning only one prince made it into melee. Because his courts had multiple wounds or the HQ would transfer wounds to them that he failed they were able to absorb the damage and take them apart gradually. My smiting diminished his firepower considerably by the second turn, but the remainder and short range weapons were able to do enough to finish Magnus off (who I failed to cast warp time with) and do damage to the GUO which meant that he was able to finish off the GUO on the charge.

The horrors and the changeling did their jobs. The chariots were fairly lacklustre. I wanted them against tanks but I did not face any. The flamers did a good job dishing out massive amounts of hits. However his units were able to absorb a lot of their damage and were able to pin then in a charge.

What did I learn? When facing a close combat army has a good movement only move just into smite range at first and then move closer for charges in later turns. Positioning correctly for charges is crucial. Unless I make an attack with overwhelming force by my strong units they will get bogged down.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Ecdain wrote:
I'm hoping aetaos doesn't get banned, while not off the charts op, he's definitely a staple in my list and I'm not sure what replaces him if he gets banned. Magnus just doesn't cut it, yes his save is technically better with the Weaver of fate spell but he also takes more wounds from multi damage weapons hands down from being t7 instead of t8, add on him being less than 20 wounds, and without the amazing gun. Just doesn't work. What to do if yes banned...


As a side note I'm using a third party counts as with a very well done base that zero people have complained about that clock my aetaos in at 8 5/6" in height and an 8" wingspan. I know actual model is 9.5" tall but I feel I got it close enough without the base looking like a ridiculous skyscraper xD

So almost every top placing daemons list having Magnus means everyone is stupid I guess... They are clearly not seeing something you are.
You cannot argue with results...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the character lists will soon be geting the bat taken to them as per FLG, like the fliers lists. Whamp whump..........

Well in my list he doesn't fit, just cause he's good doesn't make him an auto include in any Daemon list, for example my list is reactionary, i wait for you to act first most of the time. Basically what this means is I don't always want to charge gung ho, and if you don't do that with Magnus you are wasting points by taking a target that doesn't do anything. He's really good don't get me wrong, but he doesn't fit the role that aetaos does in my list due to the lack of any ranged threat apart from an upped smite.

If I were to use magnus, it would be in a much more aggressive list that has more choice for the enemy to shoot at than just the big man himself. The lists using him understand his weaknesses and build accordingly, they don't just throw him there cause "Magnus op" xD

Validate my purchase!

Also, hot damn, where are those Death Guard previews at. All we have is an announcement and then silence for 4 days :/

Jefantos wrote:
So I had my first game of 8th. I was 2000pt against Dark Eldar.

I ran:
Supreme command detachment with
Magnus
GUO
X3 Nurgle princes with wings and claws
6 flamers

Battalion detachment with:
Changling
x2 tzeentch heralds on foot with staff
3 units of blue horrors (I do not have any brimstones yet)
x2 flaming chariots

I do not have his army list but it consisted of:
multiple units of 5 scourges that deepstruck in with their dark lances
many HQs with the forcefield that grants a 2+ invul until it fails and a nasty pistol that causes multiple wounds
each HQ was next to the court- units of 4 or 5 with 4 wounds each and multiple attacks each
extra units of witches

Overall I lost, far more to my poor tactics than the army. He got the first turn and poured all his dark lance fire and other firepower into Magnus who only survived because of the Changeling. The GUO also took damage. I was too overconfident in my CC abilities. I moved forward too fast and fluffed my charge roles meaning only one prince made it into melee. Because his courts had multiple wounds or the HQ would transfer wounds to them that he failed they were able to absorb the damage and take them apart gradually. My smiting diminished his firepower considerably by the second turn, but the remainder and short range weapons were able to do enough to finish Magnus off (who I failed to cast warp time with) and do damage to the GUO which meant that he was able to finish off the GUO on the charge.

The horrors and the changeling did their jobs. The chariots were fairly lacklustre. I wanted them against tanks but I did not face any. The flamers did a good job dishing out massive amounts of hits. However his units were able to absorb a lot of their damage and were able to pin then in a charge.

What did I learn? When facing a close combat army has a good movement only move just into smite range at first and then move closer for charges in later turns. Positioning correctly for charges is crucial. Unless I make an attack with overwhelming force by my strong units they will get bogged down.

Im not 100% sure, for i dont have the book in front of me, but i think you cannot put magnus in supreme command because he is lord of war.
He requieres super heavy auxilliery detachment. You should double check it.

And why cant you use FW LoC as aetao?
Not big enough??

Supreme Command is 3-5 HQ and 1 LoW.

FW LoC IS Aetao, he just chooses to use another model.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Supreme Command is 3-5 HQ and 1 LoW.

FW LoC IS Aetao, he just chooses to use another model.

Yeah, as i said. I wasnt sure. Just checked it by myself and you are right (as always ).
I just didnt use a LoW in a Supreme Command Detachment, that was why i wasnt 100% sure.
Couldnt recall it certainly.

Good to know that the FW LoC is Keres.
Some people really argue he isnt?? Wow, why that?

Another thing:
What do you guys think of Fiends of Slaanesh?
Good unit? I think -1 psychic test and not be able to fall back is an interesting thing to look at.
As a new player never played them though.

Anyone any experience in 8th Edition?

In other news, busting out this list for next weekend's local RTT.

Alpha Legion Spearhead

Slaanesh Prince w/ wings/talons and elixir
Sorc with sword/chainsword/jumppack

2x 3 Tzeentch Obliterators
1x 3 Slaanesh Obliterators

Tzeentch Batallion

Changeling
2x Herald on Disc w/ Staff

6 Exalted Flamer

5x 1 blue 9 brim
1x 1 blue 19 Brim

Supreme Command
5 Malefic Lord

Feeling really confident, look forward to giving you nerds feedback on the Obliterator inclusion.

Got placed 6th in a field of 58 players this weekend!

My list was:
-Aetaos
-Magnus

-Changeling
-TzHerald + staff
-4x Maelific Lords

-2x twelve brimmies + 1 blue
-3x three Nurglings

-6x Flamers

-2x nurgle Giant Chaos Spawns

MVP: The Giant Chaos Spawns

Thoughts on this list:
-Magnus died early but his power to bump his invulvn to 3++ helped a ton.
-Aetao did "okay". I need to be more agressive and get him into combat. Not sure he's worth the 700pts...
-Nurglings infiltrate are great for Maelstorm missions, plus they're tough little buggers.

Future thoughts... I think I'll drop Aetaos when Mortorian is released, and add 6 more Maelific lords.

Why not Tzeentch Chaos Spawns as you have the Changeling? I would assume the Changeling wastly overcompensates for the very slightly worse Tzeentch ablity.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why not Tzeentch Chaos Spawns as you have the Changeling? I would assume the Changeling wastly overcompensates for the very slightly worse Tzeentch ablity.

I found the changeling too slow.

The nurgle giant spawns are the new distraction carnifex... and they do that exceedingly well. Plus, disgusting resiliance is golden on these guys.

I don't believe (unless I'm missing a FAQ) that giant chaos spawn get the god specific demonic powers.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I don't believe (unless I'm missing a FAQ) that giant chaos spawn get the god specific demonic powers.

It was FAQ'ed... but... I can't find it just now. :/

 whembly wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I don't believe (unless I'm missing a FAQ) that giant chaos spawn get the god specific demonic powers.

It was FAQ'ed... but... I can't find it just now. :/

I saw it about a minute after I posted that. You can find FW's FAQs on the FW website where you buy each book. https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DK/Imperial-Armour-Index-chaos-2017

Disgusting Resilience is better than Ephermal form on spawn by a slight Margin, where as Ephermal Form AND Changeling ends up making Tzeentch better.

The real choice is to just run Scabby and run like 6 Spawn w/ him and enjoy unkillable Giant Spawn.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Disgusting Resilience is better than Ephermal form on spawn by a slight Margin, where as Ephermal Form AND Changeling ends up making Tzeentch better.

The real choice is to just run Scabby and run like 6 Spawn w/ him and enjoy unkillable Giant Spawn.

Because your opponent will shoot at Scabby rather than the Spawn? I'm not seeing any rules synergy there outside of Scabby being able to cast Fleshy Abundance to heal the Spawn, which can be done much more cheaply with just a Daemon Prince....

Scabby gives a -1 to hit aura to Daemons of nurgle when you make it into Melee.