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JakeSiren wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
i m sure will be worded "if you roll 1 you are slain regardless modificators" or is a no sense rule.

Maybe after the 2 week FAQ, but the preview today doesn't say before modifiers.

a roll of 1 is always a failure regardless any modifiers as rulebook say, no need of faq.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:


No doubt, I've been looking at Fateweaver and the LoC precisely because of that. But it's always good to have the economy model available.

The real winner might honestly be Pink Horrors, a 30 man squad with Flames looks to be able to pump out an amazing amount of damage.

It might be cool to run 20 Pinks + 10 Blues (-> Brimstomes -> dead ) . But if someone charge you you're just stuck...

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
It might be cool to run 20 Pinks + 10 Blues (-> Brimstomes -> dead ) . But if someone charge you you're just stuck...

You aren't really looking for them to survive so much as appear, dump a huge number of wounds on some targets, then probably die. Given the deep strike stratagem and Flames, you could probably pull off some pretty solid first turn deep strike damage, deep into your enemy's backfield.

3 Flamers -> 1CP
6 Flamers -> 2CP

2CP for 6 Flamers DS?

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
3 Flamers -> 1CP
6 Flamers -> 2CP

2CP for 6 Flamers DS?

9 Flamers -> 2CP

Why not go all out?

 blackmage wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
i m sure will be worded "if you roll 1 you are slain regardless modificators" or is a no sense rule.

Maybe after the 2 week FAQ, but the preview today doesn't say before modifiers.

a roll of 1 is always a failure regardless any modifiers as rulebook say, no need of faq.

Yes, but read the rule for the impossible robes. It says that if the reroll results in a 1, the bearer is immediately slain - not if you fail to make the save. As you are adding 1 to the roll a natural 1 on the dice becomes a result of 2 which then doesn't trigger the condition to be slain.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
3 Flamers -> 1CP
6 Flamers -> 2CP

2CP for 6 Flamers DS?

9 Flamers -> 2CP

Why not go all out?

Heah, 9 Flamers will be nice to clear some blobs (S4 str is nice), for 2CP it might worth it.
Also we can cast Flickering Flames (+1 to wound) new power on them so they might be devastating.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
3 Flamers -> 1CP
6 Flamers -> 2CP

2CP for 6 Flamers DS?

9 Flamers -> 2CP

Why not go all out?

Heah, 9 Flamers will be nice to clear some blobs (S4 str is nice), for 2CP it might worth it.
Also we can cast Flickering Flames (+1 to wound) new power on them so they might be devastating.

If it holds true that most shooting attacks are now S:User and you can get a Herald in range for S5 and cast Flickering Flames for +1 to wound they'll be quite nasty against a lot of stuff.

Hope so. Also i really really want paint and play LoC so it would be awesome to run both LoC and Magnus. Hope they'll make LoC playable.

Just do 5 Flamers, nerds. That's still just 1CP.

I'll, personally, be testing 3x5 and 2x5 Flamer squads.


DISREGARD. I am unfamiliar with PL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, according to the rumors Flamers are base S5 now.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Just do 5 Flamers, nerds. That's still just 1CP.

No it isn't. As soon as you go from 3 to 4, the PL jumps from 5 to 9, putting it in 2CP territory. That's how PL works in relation to undersized units: you always round up.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Just do 5 Flamers, nerds. That's still just 1CP.

No it isn't. As soon as you go from 3 to 4, the PL jumps from 5 to 9, putting it in 2CP territory. That's how PL works in relation to undersized units: you always round up.

Flamers base S4. And just run 6 Flamers for 1 CP, they're still 8 PL at 6.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Just do 5 Flamers, nerds. That's still just 1CP.

No it isn't. As soon as you go from 3 to 4, the PL jumps from 5 to 9, putting it in 2CP territory. That's how PL works in relation to undersized units: you always round up.

I'm willing to believe you, but that sounds dumb. Everything about PL is dumb. Doesn't indicate a difference in points until that point. 8th is odd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xxhikaru123 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Just do 5 Flamers, nerds. That's still just 1CP.

No it isn't. As soon as you go from 3 to 4, the PL jumps from 5 to 9, putting it in 2CP territory. That's how PL works in relation to undersized units: you always round up.

Flamers base S4. And just run 6 Flamers for 1 CP, they're still 8 PL at 6.

Now that's an important note. Must have been lengthy confusion about their strength, but the PL change is definitely good.

Okay guys so inspire me on the others like khorne or nurgle.

I'm excited for tzneetch. Lrods of change are fast enoough and have strong enough spells that they can do some cool stuff turn 1, and even bringing 2 or 3 LoCs seem worth while with smites or various spells. While flamers DS are strong, and even summoning or DSing in pink horrors will be very strong thanks to +1sr and +1 wound buffs that can make them very powerful as anti horde tools.

next up i can see splashes of khorne being strong, but whole armies seem tough to justify. DSing in blood letters with a blood thirster or herald on jugger to provide locus seem like the ycan make good charges turn 1. However, i think these DSs are easier to counter with scout due to not being ranged attacks, but instead charges on none flying models. So bubble wrapped vehicles won't have much to worry about.

Nurgle is definitly durable and with points drops plague drones look very tough. However the low mobility and lack of range on the GUO means he's almsot always gonna spend a turn twittling his thumbs even if you DS him in??? Nurgling will always be nice to have for scout and counter DS. However, nurgle seem to rely heavily on surviving a turn or two of shooting before they start playing the game, and that seem a bit like a none starter?? The coolest nurgle tricks see mto be to have a GUO drop down with a herald some where else on the table to Miama him, and hope the GUO stays survive the shooting phase to use his close range spells and melee attacks and very powerful flail. Plague drones also seem VERY durable??

I never much like slanesh.

Anywho can anyone dispell my self made funk?? IS there more there from what we know so far??

Daemonettes are still apparently just "bloodletters but gak" in the codex, especially with the DS rules giving BL's a form of transportation. The alleged rumor of ALL the Slaanesh herald's mount options going away pretty much leaves the entire god dead in the water. There is nothing they have to offer that can't really be found elsewhere in the codex. I suppose if I wanted to go mono-god I might take a single squad or two of seekers just for disruption, but that's really about it.

The way seems to look like a strong Nurgle core with Tzeentch shooting elements and Khorne/Slaanesh specialist units to use as a scalpel.

JakeSiren wrote:

 blackmage wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
i m sure will be worded "if you roll 1 you are slain regardless modificators" or is a no sense rule.

Maybe after the 2 week FAQ, but the preview today doesn't say before modifiers.

a roll of 1 is always a failure regardless any modifiers as rulebook say, no need of faq.

Yes, but read the rule for the impossible robes. It says that if the reroll results in a 1, the bearer is immediately slain - not if you fail to make the save. As you are adding 1 to the roll a natural 1 on the dice becomes a result of 2 which then doesn't trigger the condition to be slain.

no you dont add the +1 to re roll, you roll 1 and is a fail regardless any modifier you can use. Use ur brain, if were like you said would be no reason to add that line to impossible robe rules, cause you would never roll a 1 on saving throws with Tzeentch.

For those interested in a comparison of 9 Flamers or 30 Pink Horrors deep striking.

Vs Imperial Guardsmen:

30 Pink Horrors
15 dead

30 Pink Horrors with S4 from Herald OR+1 to wound from stratagem
20 dead

30 Pink Horrors with S4 from Herald AND +1 to wound from stratagem
25 dead

9 Flamers
17.5 dead

9 Flamers with +1 to wound from stratagem
21.875 dead



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Vs MEQ:

30 Pink Horrors
~5 dead

30 Pink Horrors with S4 from Herald OR +1 to wound from stratagem
~7.5 dead

30 Pink Horrors with S4 from Herald AND +1 to wound from stratagem
~10 dead

9 Flamers
7.875 dead

9 Flamers with +1 to wound from stratagem
10.5 dead

If the math is correct, the pink blob has an advantage, being slightly lower in point cost but having many more wounds and longer range. Of course once you go down below 20 it's gonna be a different story. On the other hand having dealt the damage needed for that (especially with some splitting reserves) the flamers would have died already.

Flamers still get autohit on overwatch though, and won't be shut down by melee. And should do a lot better against enemies like Eldar with the -1 / -2 to hit shenanigans.

 knas wrote:
If the math is correct, the pink blob has an advantage, being slightly lower in point cost but having many more wounds and longer range. Of course once you go down below 20 it's gonna be a different story. On the other hand having dealt the damage needed for that (especially with some splitting reserves) the flamers would have died already.

Flamers still get autohit on overwatch though, and won't be shut down by melee. And should do a lot better against enemies like Eldar with the -1 / -2 to hit shenanigans.

Flamers would also be very good in hunting Flyers. They auto hit and 9 of them will do about 8 wounds to a hemlock equivalent.
On the other hand you could very well use screamers for that too.

 Astmeister wrote:

 knas wrote:
If the math is correct, the pink blob has an advantage, being slightly lower in point cost but having many more wounds and longer range. Of course once you go down below 20 it's gonna be a different story. On the other hand having dealt the damage needed for that (especially with some splitting reserves) the flamers would have died already.

Flamers still get autohit on overwatch though, and won't be shut down by melee. And should do a lot better against enemies like Eldar with the -1 / -2 to hit shenanigans.

Flamers would also be very good in hunting Flyers. They auto hit and 9 of them will do about 8 wounds to a hemlock equivalent.
On the other hand you could very well use screamers for that too.

If Screamers are still WS4, that's probably not nearly as reliable.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 knas wrote:
If the math is correct, the pink blob has an advantage, being slightly lower in point cost but having many more wounds and longer range. Of course once you go down below 20 it's gonna be a different story. On the other hand having dealt the damage needed for that (especially with some splitting reserves) the flamers would have died already.

Flamers still get autohit on overwatch though, and won't be shut down by melee. And should do a lot better against enemies like Eldar with the -1 / -2 to hit shenanigans.

Flamers would also be very good in hunting Flyers. They auto hit and 9 of them will do about 8 wounds to a hemlock equivalent.
On the other hand you could very well use screamers for that too.

If Screamers are still WS4, that's probably not nearly as reliable.

Vs Hemlock T6 3+:

9 Flamers
5.25 wounds

9 Screamers
11.24 wounds (not taking into account the brutal overwatch of the hemlock)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I forgot the 6+++. In this case the flamers do about 4-5 and the Screamers about 9-10. Still about double...

For kicks, how does a Burning Chariot do? Considering 9 Melee attacks and the flamer or lascannon option.

I feel like people are sleeping on them a little bit.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
For kicks, how does a Burning Chariot do? Considering 9 Melee attacks and the flamer or lascannon option.

I feel like people are sleeping on them a little bit.

Burning Chariot vs Hemlock (including melee and 6+++)

using Blue Fire in shooting phase
5.625 wounds

using Pink Fire in shooting phase
4.44 wounds

This Blue Fire does D3 wounds, right?

The values are actually very good, if you consider the points cost of 98 currently.

They're going to be 120.

6 S7 AP-2 2d Attacks, 3 S5 AP-1 1D attacks and a Heavy 3 S10 AP-4 d3 Damage lascannon.

The strength you are describing is only valid with a Herald, I guess!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Using your values you end up doing 4.1 wounds.
I already calculated that the Blue fire just hits on 5+, because you will probably have to move with the heavy weapon and get -1 to hit for the "Hard to hit" rule.
If you do not have to move before, you will do 4.7 damage.

Bah, maybe? Exalted Flamers are supposed to have an increased STR over normal flamers, to S5 Base, I think? Maybe not, rumors are slightly scattered as it stands, we'll have a better overall picture soon enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Astmeister wrote:
Using your values you end up doing 4.1 wounds.
I already calculated that the Blue fire just hits on 5+, because you will probably have to move with the heavy weapon and get -1 to hit for the "Hard to hit" rule.
If you do not have to move before, you will do 4.7 damage.

Don't forget, Exalteds are BS3 iirc, so it's 3s normally, 4s when you move, either way that's not too shabby. Thanks for indulging me.

BS3 with -1 to move and -1 for hard to hit. That will be a 5+ to hit, if we are still talking about the Hemlock.

 Astmeister wrote:
BS3 with -1 to move and -1 for hard to hit. That will be a 5+ to hit, if we are still talking about the Hemlock.

Entirely fair point!

 blackmage wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

 blackmage wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
i m sure will be worded "if you roll 1 you are slain regardless modificators" or is a no sense rule.

Maybe after the 2 week FAQ, but the preview today doesn't say before modifiers.

a roll of 1 is always a failure regardless any modifiers as rulebook say, no need of faq.

Yes, but read the rule for the impossible robes. It says that if the reroll results in a 1, the bearer is immediately slain - not if you fail to make the save. As you are adding 1 to the roll a natural 1 on the dice becomes a result of 2 which then doesn't trigger the condition to be slain.

no you dont add the +1 to re roll, you roll 1 and is a fail regardless any modifier you can use. Use ur brain, if were like you said would be no reason to add that line to impossible robe rules, cause you would never roll a 1 on saving throws with Tzeentch.

This isn't true for one or is called the impossible robe.

Second there are abilities that can reduce your invulns like kind that could make that matter.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The alleged rumor of ALL the Slaanesh herald's mount options going away pretty much leaves the entire god dead in the water.

Could you point me in the direction of the source?

The herald on a steed is the last model I need to make for my 1500 points, I was going to convert it today. This has me thinking I don't need to. But even if there's no option for a herald on a steed in the new codex, can't I just use the one from the index?