Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
andysonic1 wrote: Question that may be in an FAQ: I have a CSM Battalion and a Deamon Battalion. My CSM Battalion has a Deamon Prince warlord. Can he take the Skullreaver if I pay 1CP for it?
Why would you want to take the Skullreaver on a CSMDP? The Daemon version gets +1S and +1A as well as re-roll charging.
Because he gives reroll 1's to BOTH CSM and Deamons, and I have a mixed force that utilizes Blood Slaughterers. I also use JuggerHeralds, so the Deamon Prince will always be in range of the reroll charge, and World Eaters Deamon Prince gets +1A on the charge anyways. With the Weapon he'll be strength 11 on the charge instead of strength 12 (Herald nearby), which could be a big deal but most things make the jump from toughness 5 to 7 anyways so not normally a big deal. You lose almost nothing and gain an aura that meshes your Deamonkin army.
Um... can he wield that? I don't think Skullreaver can be on anything but a Bloodthirster. AKA, I KNOW it can't take it. Unless the reader f'd up. But he read everything word for word.
It makes sense, most artifacts are like "+1 str" "+2 AP". DP is nowhere near the D6 and D3 mortal wounds power level
rvd1ofakind wrote: Um... can he wield that? I don't think Skullreaver can be on anything but a Bloodthirster. AKA, I KNOW it can't take it. Unless the reader f'd up. But he read everything word for word.
It makes sense, most artifacts are like "+1 str" "+2 AP". DP is nowhere near the D6 and D3 mortal wounds power level
The Chaos Daemons Codex includes Heldrake and Knight rules? And the two Primarchs? And lists Chaos Spawn as FA?
Huh. If this is accurate, you could take an all CSM army with a Flyer Wing of three Heldrakes, or a Super-Heavy Detachment of Magnus, and all your Obliterators and Decimators and Legion DPs could benefit from CD Stratagems.
The Chaos Daemons Codex includes Heldrake and Knight rules? And the two Primarchs? And lists Chaos Spawn as FA?
Huh. If this is accurate, you could take an all CSM army with a Flyer Wing of three Heldrakes, or a Super-Heavy Detachment of Magnus, and all your Obliterators and Decimators and Legion DPs could benefit from CD Stratagems.
Do they also get access to Locis then?
Magnus with access to an ability where he ignores a units shooting if they hit him with a certain dice roll, hmmm. Not game breaking but icing on the cake maybe?
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
The Chaos Daemons Codex includes Heldrake and Knight rules? And the two Primarchs? And lists Chaos Spawn as FA?
Huh. If this is accurate, you could take an all CSM army with a Flyer Wing of three Heldrakes, or a Super-Heavy Detachment of Magnus, and all your Obliterators and Decimators and Legion DPs could benefit from CD Stratagems.
Do they also get access to Locis then?
Magnus with access to an ability where he ignores a units shooting if they hit him with a certain dice roll, hmmm. Not game breaking but icing on the cake maybe?
Magnus with access to an ability where he ignores a units shooting if they hit him with a certain dice roll, hmmm. Not game breaking but icing on the cake maybe?
The Tzeentch locus just works in the fight phase.
Still not bad for just icing.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death Guard Character?
A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.
The question now because: since the Deamon Prince has the required keywords, can he take a Deamon Artifact?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 14:58:50
Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death Guard Character?
A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.
The question now because: since the Deamon Prince has the required keywords, can he take a Deamon Artifact?
Ah, didn't know about that FAQ (don't play DG). So now yes, RAW, the DP can take the artifact.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death Guard Character?
A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.
The question now because: since the Deamon Prince has the required keywords, can he take a Deamon Artifact?
Ah, didn't know about that FAQ (don't play DG). So now yes, RAW, the DP can take the artifact.
I updated my summary, which means it has more things than the codex.
Things in the codex are index things + new nurgle stuff + chaos spawn - slaanesh heralds on mounts
I added some chaos daemons from csm and I'll try to add all, since they can use the rules from the codex
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 15:35:23
The Chaos Daemons Codex includes Heldrake and Knight rules? And the two Primarchs? And lists Chaos Spawn as FA?
Huh. If this is accurate, you could take an all CSM army with a Flyer Wing of three Heldrakes, or a Super-Heavy Detachment of Magnus, and all your Obliterators and Decimators and Legion DPs could benefit from CD Stratagems.
You can't because CSM model don't have the daemons and <chaos daemon of> (cant temember the exact wording) factiom keywords. As such they cant om thier own benefit from chaos daemons stuff, and tjey cant om thier own activate any of the chaos daemons stratagems/relics/spells .
You'll need an actual chaos daemons detachment base up of only models from the chaos daemons codex.
rvd1ofakind wrote: I updated my summary, which means it has more things than the codex.
Things in the codex are index things + new nurgle stuff + chaos spawn - slaanesh heralds on mounts
I added some chaos daemons from csm and I'll try to add all, since they can use the rules from the codex
I'm a little confused: are Heldrakes and Chaos Spawn in the Deamons Codex now? Were more things added in?
rvd1ofakind wrote: I updated my summary, which means it has more things than the codex.
Things in the codex are index things + new nurgle stuff + chaos spawn - slaanesh heralds on mounts
I added some chaos daemons from csm and I'll try to add all, since they can use the rules from the codex
I'm a little confused: are Heldrakes and Chaos Spawn in the Deamons Codex now? Were more things added in?
No, he only things in the book are the things you'd expect to be in the book. I.e. the normal daemon suspects. Spawn are only in there as a reference because some models have the ability to turn other models into spawn.
its definitly the most meh when you've got a mixed daemons force. It could be used with screams, but i dont think i'd take screamers in mixed daemons.
Ideally i think melee whise you'll ahve your blood letter bomb and nurglings as those are the two fastest and strongest melee forces we have.
How would you guys run a tzeentch detachment???
honestly, i think i want to jsut run a supreme command:
LoC Herald tzentch (either of foot or on disc)
Herald of Tzeentch (or other god herald)
Then just summon any horrors of flamers i want. I'm kinda not to big on the exalted flamers just because the -1 to hit on thier heavy attack is really lame, but if you went against some one who was all mech you'd atleast have the option of summoning them.
Alternatively an
LoC Hereald of Tzneetch
2x min.brimstones
1x 20-30pink horror squad
squad of flamers
using the deep strike stratagem to get horrors and or flamers where they need to be, but i feel like it eats into the mild flexibility you get, as horrors are better against guard, and flamers are better again marine types. Here you'd lose the option of summoning exalted flamers.
Personally i like the small supreme command with a none tzeentch herald if you are running mixed daemons. It save you some points and give you more flexibility. You really only need 1 tzeentch herald as that herald can be in charge of giving +1 to wound to your flamers or heralds, and it can also giv eit +1 str aura which in alot of cases is a +2 to wound swing total. Additionaly as you can only give the +1 to wound to just one unit, it is most effective to just summon either the flamers or the horrors and give them the buffs.
As i've stated before i think the LoC is just plain good. He's super tough with relics and warlord traits, and he put out pretty decent mortal wound based damage, and can be super charged by feeding a CP into it each turn.
What other tzneetch detachment ideas do you folks have??
Have to admit I was super stoked when I read the Slaneesh psycker ability to fight during psychic phase. Allowing a 3CP Ability (Khorne) on a Slaneesh char who passes a pyschic test is nice - but then realized model had to be in combat at the beginning of psychic phase. This means either someone charged you or you charged something which stayed in combat for an entire turn.
Now I'm not even sure it is worth taking - I can see some melee heavy armies where it has some spunk but (in general) with quicksilver quickness you are hitting first anyway. Moved from a "wow" for me to a "probably not worth taking." Anyone with some experience have advice how to keep these in combat? Probably the only unit I can see someone staying on might be daemonettes?
I mean skarbrand naturally but besides.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/09 21:37:21
orkswubwub wrote: Have to admit I was super stoked when I read the Slaneesh psycker ability to fight during psychic phase. Allowing a 3CP Ability (Khorne) on a Slaneesh char who passes a pyschic test is nice - but then realized model had to be in combat at the beginning of psychic phase. This means either someone charged you or you charged something which stayed in combat for an entire turn.
Now I'm not even sure it is worth taking - I can see some melee heavy armies where it has some spunk but (in general) with quicksilver quickness you are hitting first anyway. Moved from a "wow" for me to a "probably not worth taking." Anyone with some experience have advice how to keep these in combat? Probably the only unit I can see someone staying on might be daemonettes?
I mean skarbrand naturally but besides.
Fiends of Slaanesh would be your best bet on staying locked in combat (assuming their ability hasn't changed). The psychic power is fairly situational, but I can see it being useful if you need to finish off a unit and charge into a different one in the same turn.
orkswubwub wrote: Have to admit I was super stoked when I read the Slaneesh psycker ability to fight during psychic phase. Allowing a 3CP Ability (Khorne) on a Slaneesh char who passes a pyschic test is nice - but then realized model had to be in combat at the beginning of psychic phase. This means either someone charged you or you charged something which stayed in combat for an entire turn.
Now I'm not even sure it is worth taking - I can see some melee heavy armies where it has some spunk but (in general) with quicksilver quickness you are hitting first anyway. Moved from a "wow" for me to a "probably not worth taking." Anyone with some experience have advice how to keep these in combat? Probably the only unit I can see someone staying on might be daemonettes?
I mean skarbrand naturally but besides.
Actualy the spell is amazing, but it's in a faction that struggles to use it .
In competive 40knwhen you get into melee the idea is to surround and only get 1 or 3 of your models in range to do attacks. Then just use pile one to get a better surround. This holds the unit ransp m until your opponents turn, and protects your units from shooting. Then you kill the unit in your opponents fight phase. What makes the spell pretty good is that it gives you insurance that you will kill the ransom unit in your psykic phase should you fail to clean it up in your opponents turn.
However daemonettes fail a but here and most of daemons do as well as they arnt durable enough to stay locked in combat for multiple turns against anything. And usually a wise opponent will just charge more stuff into melee, as even terrible attack will kill them.
And while thorne are just as fragile (basicly with demonnettes and bloodletters being guardsmen). The Khorne models will atleast do ALOT of damage to the units that counter charge on top of the units they start engaged with. Even more so the bloodletters get buffed if some one charges them double thier attacks and getting another str. Where as daemonettes just get to swing first which can be good in some circumstances.
Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death Guard Character?
A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.
The question now because: since the Deamon Prince has the required keywords, can he take a Deamon Artifact?
Ah, didn't know about that FAQ (don't play DG). So now yes, RAW, the DP can take the artifact.
It depends on the wording in the Chaos Daemons codex. If it's similar to the Blood Angels codex which uses the faction keyword in capital bold letters in the relic section, then by RAW it would be allowed if the keywords are the same for the DP in the CSM book and CD book.
If it's similar to how the Chaos Space Marine codex spells out 'Chaos Space Marine' units in the CSM relic section and doesn't use faction keywords to denote Chaos Daemons, then those relics will be restricted to models from the Chaos Daemons book.
Q: If my army is led by a Chaos Space Marines Warlord, and I have a Detachment of Death Guard, can I use the Gifts of Decay Death Guard Stratagem to include a Relic on a Death Guard Character?
A: Yes. The only requirement to have access to Stratagems is that you have a Detachment of the appropriate Faction. If you have a Death Guard Detachment, you have access to their Stratagems.
The question now because: since the Deamon Prince has the required keywords, can he take a Deamon Artifact?
Ah, didn't know about that FAQ (don't play DG). So now yes, RAW, the DP can take the artifact.
It depends on the wording in the Chaos Daemons codex. If it's similar to the Blood Angels codex which uses the faction keyword in capital bold letters in the relic section, then by RAW it would be allowed if the keywords are the same for the DP in the CSM book and CD book.
If it's similar to how the Chaos Space Marine codex spells out 'Chaos Space Marine' units in the CSM relic section and doesn't use faction keywords to denote Chaos Daemons, then those relics will be restricted to models from the Chaos Daemons book.
From the guy attempting to copy the codex word for word from reviews, it supposedly says something to the effect of:
Your army can have 1 extra relic from Hellforged Artifacts for 1 CP. Or 2 for 3CP. All of the relics must be different and be given to different Chaos Daemon Characters. Can only use this once.
It was also noted by the previous leaker and the reviewers that the Daemons faction keyword is never mentioned as a <keyword> anywhere in the book. This heavily implies that you just need the Daemon keyword anywhere on the datasheet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 23:32:39
so...that strategem to improve invul save of a unit of daemons by 1. If I plonk down a Lord of Skulls and then use that strategem, my LOS now becomes 4++ ?
I wonder how many armies want to try shooting at a Lord of skulls with T8, 28 wounds and a 4++ save... lol
