Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

seekers with a herald on steed/chariot with locus have an obscene threat range 12 +2d6 +2d6 charge. I prefer the smaller chariot herald as it can hide in units and doesn't have a degrading statline.

 Porphyrius wrote:
I've recently acquired a variety of Slaanesh daemons, and I'm thinking of creating a detachment to supplement my Emperor's Children. I know that the Slaanesh daemons aren't the highest-regarded in the new codex, but I was hoping to get some advice on what to use/how to use them?

I currently have access to about 35 daemonettes, 15 seekers, the masque of slaanesh, and an unassembled exalted seeker chariot. I know that the mount options were removed for Slaaneshi heralds in the codex, but I was thinking of running the index version and putting a herald on the chariot.

Can anyone give me some advice? Thanks!

I assembled an Exalted Seeker Chariot and regretted it. Would much rather have, say, a Seeker and a Flayer. When I do field my ESC, it’s as the Heavy Support variant and not the Herald - who has so many W that every big gun with LOS can take a shot. Seeker and Seeker Chariot heralds hit the spot for Locus coverage.

I’ll mention Fiends, as whilst they are very squishy they are also an absolute game-changer if they can engage something that can’t easily stomp them. If a single Fiend tags a Land Raider, it’s basically out of the game until something else gets involved. Excellent as a combo with a high damage unit - I held a Knight in combat with a DP for three rounds, forcing it to stay and take its beating. Titanfall!

With what you’ve got? There’s easily an Outriders detachment, there, with plenty of options - Seekers are quite capable as a DS unit if they get Locus coverage. This will eat into CP that you’re probably already spending heavily on shooting; you could squeeze a Battalion out of this as well, but you’d probably want one more box of Daemonettes to have at least one large unit of them that can cause some damage.

Thanks for the tips so far! Running a regular chariot rather than an exalted definitely makes sense, I'd totally forgotten about the ability to target it even though it's a character. Luckily it's unassembled, so that's no problem. What psychic powers are good on Heralds? I was thinking Hysterical Frenzy, but I'm not sure if there are obviously-better options.

What's the right size to run units of Seekers? Are they better as MSU, or larger ones?

I totally agree about the daemonette units, the benefit for having 20+ is too good not to take advantage of. I'd been thinking of doing a unit of 25 and another of 10, and expanding as I find some good deals in the swap shop/ebay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

operkoi wrote:
seekers with a herald on steed/chariot with locus have an obscene threat range 12 +2d6 +2d6 charge. I prefer the smaller chariot herald as it can hide in units and doesn't have a degrading statline.

I think I must be missing something regarding the range of seekers; from the codex, it looks like they move 14 +d6 advance (+1 if they have an instrument) +2d6 charge (+1 with instrument). What allows them to move 2d6 when advancing?

I prefer the reliability of Symphony and Phantasmagoria. When/if Delightful Agonies gets errata'd to be same as the CSM version, I'll be interested in that, too. TBH I mostly Smite with my Heralds, Slaaneshi powers are most situational stuff

 lindsay40k wrote:
I prefer the reliability of Symphony and Phantasmagoria. When/if Delightful Agonies gets errata'd to be same as the CSM version, I'll be interested in that, too. TBH I mostly Smite with my Heralds, Slaaneshi powers are most situational stuff

I highly doubt that will happen. They should have changed the name of the power for sure, but there is already a 5+ DR daemon right there in the codex. Most t3 models only ever get a 6+ fnp. All the CSM units are more expensive, and they are ASTARTES not some weak Slaaneshi cheerleaders. It makes sense that they become more resilient.

 Porphyrius wrote:
Thanks for the tips so far? Running a regular chariot rather than an exalted definitely makes sense, I'd totally forgotten about the ability to target it even though it's a character. Luckily it's unassembled, so that's no problem. What psychic powers are good on Heralds? I was thinking Hysterical Frenzy, but I'm not sure if there are obviously-better options.

What's the right size to run units of Seekers? Are they better as MSU, or larger ones?

I totally agree about the daemonette units, the benefit for having 20+ is too good not to take advantage of. I'd been thinking of doing a unit of 25 and another of 10, and expanding as I find some good deals in the swap shop/ebay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

operkoi wrote:
seekers with a herald on steed/chariot with locus have an obscene threat range 12 +2d6 +2d6 charge. I prefer the smaller chariot herald as it can hide in units and doesn't have a degrading statline.

I think I must be missing something regarding the range of seekers; from the codex, it looks like they move 14 +d6 advance (+1 if they have an instrument) +2d6 charge (+1 with instrument). What allows them to move 2d6 when advancing?

Units of 10 seekers are ideal. 10 is large enough you can lose a few models but still effective in combat. Yet 10 unit size is small enough a bad morale test doesn't hurt too badly. 20 size units are too unwieldy to run on the table because of base size and terrain.

What do we reckon is the mass of Nurgle Daemons that make Epidemius worth it?

ntin wrote:

 Porphyrius wrote:
Thanks for the tips so far? Running a regular chariot rather than an exalted definitely makes sense, I'd totally forgotten about the ability to target it even though it's a character. Luckily it's unassembled, so that's no problem. What psychic powers are good on Heralds? I was thinking Hysterical Frenzy, but I'm not sure if there are obviously-better options.

What's the right size to run units of Seekers? Are they better as MSU, or larger ones?

I totally agree about the daemonette units, the benefit for having 20+ is too good not to take advantage of. I'd been thinking of doing a unit of 25 and another of 10, and expanding as I find some good deals in the swap shop/ebay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

operkoi wrote:
seekers with a herald on steed/chariot with locus have an obscene threat range 12 +2d6 +2d6 charge. I prefer the smaller chariot herald as it can hide in units and doesn't have a degrading statline.

I think I must be missing something regarding the range of seekers; from the codex, it looks like they move 14 +d6 advance (+1 if they have an instrument) +2d6 charge (+1 with instrument). What allows them to move 2d6 when advancing?

Units of 10 seekers are ideal. 10 is large enough you can lose a few models but still effective in combat. Yet 10 unit size is small enough a bad morale test doesn't hurt too badly. 20 size units are too unwieldy to run on the table because of base size and terrain.

Would running squads of 5 be a purely terrible idea? I definitely understand that larger squads would be better, but I don't have the models. I suppose in essence what I'm asking is, would I be better running 3x5 seekers in an outrider detachment for the CP, or should I consider running a larger squad-at least for the time being-in a patrol detachment and giving up the CP because the smaller units are just not worth it?

 lindsay40k wrote:
What do we reckon is the mass of Nurgle Daemons that make Epidemius worth it?

the problerm with epi isn't so muich about worth... its more a issue with the game. killing stuff turn 1 and 2 is already so important. where epidemius doesn't really tun on until turn 3 and by then the winner as been decided. So he's kind of a win more model, andn ot the big swing model you'd want him to be.

 lindsay40k wrote:
What do we reckon is the mass of Nurgle Daemons that make Epidemius worth it?

1k points and less is a no go for him IMO. From the games I've played I reckon having at least 1250 points of Nurgle Daemons makes him worth it.

 Porphyrius wrote:

ntin wrote:

 Porphyrius wrote:
Thanks for the tips so far? Running a regular chariot rather than an exalted definitely makes sense, I'd totally forgotten about the ability to target it even though it's a character. Luckily it's unassembled, so that's no problem. What psychic powers are good on Heralds? I was thinking Hysterical Frenzy, but I'm not sure if there are obviously-better options.

What's the right size to run units of Seekers? Are they better as MSU, or larger ones?

I totally agree about the daemonette units, the benefit for having 20+ is too good not to take advantage of. I'd been thinking of doing a unit of 25 and another of 10, and expanding as I find some good deals in the swap shop/ebay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

operkoi wrote:
seekers with a herald on steed/chariot with locus have an obscene threat range 12 +2d6 +2d6 charge. I prefer the smaller chariot herald as it can hide in units and doesn't have a degrading statline.

I think I must be missing something regarding the range of seekers; from the codex, it looks like they move 14 +d6 advance (+1 if they have an instrument) +2d6 charge (+1 with instrument). What allows them to move 2d6 when advancing?

Units of 10 seekers are ideal. 10 is large enough you can lose a few models but still effective in combat. Yet 10 unit size is small enough a bad morale test doesn't hurt too badly. 20 size units are too unwieldy to run on the table because of base size and terrain.

Would running squads of 5 be a purely terrible idea? I definitely understand that larger squads would be better, but I don't have the models. I suppose in essence what I'm asking is, would I be better running 3x5 seekers in an outrider detachment for the CP, or should I consider running a larger squad-at least for the time being-in a patrol detachment and giving up the CP because the smaller units are just not worth it?

My normal army is 6x10 seekers, 3 steed heralds, 2 princes, and the masque.

If you can get all 5 into combat that is great but from my experience that is rare to get into combat at full strength. Slaanesh Daemons are very fragile and vulnerable to any shooting attack.

Personally aside from harassing or tying up vehicles, 5 seekers won't be able to do much. I would just run as a 15x or 10x + 5x. The bigger deal is having a herald to get the claws to s4 and to give the slaanesh locus.

I've been running as a core to my army,

Masque
Herald

30 daemonettes
30 daemonettes
30 daemonettes

It's not that expensive, and I can build several ways around it to fill in the rest of my army, depending on whether I want to stay mono slaanesh or bring in other gods. If I stay mono slaanesh, I've found the most success with daemon princes, seekers, and one unit of fiends, just three, that I can deepstrike if need be to tie up something.

People get terrified of 60 daemonettes dropping in front of them. I usually hold one unit in the back for board control, but may rush them forward too. The seekers are best flanking up the sides, using terrain, and trying to stay out of line of sight first turn, ready to strike second turn smaller units. Big units are super hard to hide and die so easily, I can't justify their points. I usually just run 5. Just what I've found to be useful.

I think daemonettes are best with a Herald and a daemonprince in their midst. They are one of the hardesthitting units in the game, and often underestimated until too late. One trick I've found to be useful is present a unit right in the opponents face. It has to be dealt with. Give it plus 1 invul from shooting, and the spell with a 6+++, and often they will absorb so much firepower, that the rest of the assaulting forces arrive mostly intact.

I haven't tried slaanesh chariots, as I don't have them. I'm curious how others use them.

I do plan to use a CSM daemon prince with Intoxicating Elixir (+1 strength and attack), the Diabolic Strength power (+2 strength and +1 attack), and Stimulated by Pain (+1 attack per wound suffered, up to 3) in the same list as my daemon detachment. I figure he should be perfect to provide buffs to both elements of the army and do some nasty damage in combat.

 lindsay40k wrote:
What do we reckon is the mass of Nurgle Daemons that make Epidemius worth it?

To me, epidemius is an all or nothing model. Don't bring him if you are doing mono god, because the chances of missing out on the tally are too great. Bringing along non chaos daemons units can make the tally really impressive. Oblits are great for the turn 1 tally, bloat drones having S-user weapons makes for a very nice buff.

I just learned from another thread that the exalted chariot kit can be turned into one regular chariot as well as a hellflayer, which definitely helps to fill out an outrider detachment. I'm thinking of a Herald on Chariot, the Masque, 30 Daemonettes, 1x10 Seekers, 1x5 Seekers, and a Hellflayer. With Instruments/Icons/etc this comes to a little over 800 points; how does this sound for a detachment supplemented with Noise Marines, Obliterators, some plasma Bikers, a Daemon Prince, and Lucius the Eternal?

So I need abit of help figuring how to change up my daemons list or maybe I shouldny. It currently contains a Loc and a GUO and it performs very well. It has both ties and beat the eldar dark reaper list from LVO in a tournament this weekend.

Not gonna go too much into the list as this is more a tactics form, but I'll go find it in. The other forum and provide a link if y'all care to take a gander.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/749790.page

Anyway. Like I said it has two greater daemons. It also has 3 daemon princes. The daemon princes are sort of the lower point?? Thwy are very goos but they tend to crumble the turn or two after they charge as there just doesn't feel like there isnt much of a way to keep them safe from enemy shooting while also having the Dps go after.important targets.

For instance one DP rocks the skullreaver. He trades up quite well beable to one shot most stuff he charges, but afterward isn't too hard for theoppinent to angle shooting and kill him. I could wait till turn 3 for the pink horror swarm to move up and provide more protect, but that makes it play to slow for tournaments. Similar problems are had with my nurgle deathguard DP. That DP takes blades of putrifaction and gets buffed with virulence blessing, and so he also sorta trades up quite easily.

So I have a few idea, but maybe you guys hav3 some better ideas??

1. A blood thirster, insensate replaces 2 of the daemon princes. I could deep strike in a blood thirster. This takes warp surge from me, but it gives me another big guy. I can give him armor of scorn to keep him safe. In ITC kingslayer does exist, but you can only king slayer one unit so once you bring one big guy you don't get further punished by bringing more. The damage out put is better than two dps at full wounds and better than one when he starts getting low. Plus he has the variable weapon.

Down side is he kinda shakes up the list alot as my pink horror screen starts to be abit pointless as a screen as they are only really protecting against turn 1 charges???

2. Replace the pink horror screen with plague drones. Plague drones are tough and fast. They can better keep up with the Dps instead of deep striking they can just fly up with them. They are for the points much tougher than the horror squad is. No one ever takes reaper against me as they know it's really easy for me to deny, but taking the plague drones would remove any thoughts of reaper being a realistic option for my opponent. Lastly, for benefits it will give me some more cp as The pinks require morale check protection.

The down sides are that the plague drones make a much worse melee screen as few models make them abit more porous. Dropping the pinks takes away my ability to score first blood/first strike (ITC old school), as the pinks were my consistent way of scoring that. Q

3. Por que no los dos, I could do both. Taking the blood thirster and plague drones. Benefit is I have the power and benefits of the blood thirster, and the plague drones can move up as a screen. We also sure up the weakness of low CP freeing me up to have 4 CP to use on stuff like warp surge. Downside is plague drones still remain abit of a poor screen when compared to pinks and I lose first blood potential.

TLDR: -2dp for blood thirst - pinks for plague drones, - pinks and dps for blood thirster and plague drones.

Thanks for any input

im actually trying a list with just 8cp (im forced to use demon battalion+chaos patrol and added Abbadon for extra cp's,only), im undecided if is worth play 30 bl and 30 horrors (costing me a total of 5 cp to ds both of them) or just stay stick with only horrors and maybe 6 flamers or play something else like noises marines or flesh hounds to replace CaC i get with letters, but in any case noise marines are cp hungry too.

mmimzie wrote:
So I need abit of help figuring how to change up my daemons list or maybe I shouldny. It currently contains a Loc and a GUO and it performs very well. It has both ties and beat the eldar dark reaper list from LVO in a tournament this weekend.

Not gonna go too much into the list as this is more a tactics form, but I'll go find it in. The other forum and provide a link if y'all care to take a gander.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/749790.page

Anyway. Like I said it has two greater daemons. It also has 3 daemon princes. The daemon princes are sort of the lower point?? Thwy are very goos but they tend to crumble the turn or two after they charge as there just doesn't feel like there isnt much of a way to keep them safe from enemy shooting while also having the Dps go after.important targets.

For instance one DP rocks the skullreaver. He trades up quite well beable to one shot most stuff he charges, but afterward isn't too hard for theoppinent to angle shooting and kill him. I could wait till turn 3 for the pink horror swarm to move up and provide more protect, but that makes it play to slow for tournaments. Similar problems are had with my nurgle deathguard DP. That DP takes blades of putrifaction and gets buffed with virulence blessing, and so he also sorta trades up quite easily.

So I have a few idea, but maybe you guys hav3 some better ideas??

1. A blood thirster, insensate replaces 2 of the daemon princes. I could deep strike in a blood thirster. This takes warp surge from me, but it gives me another big guy. I can give him armor of scorn to keep him safe. In ITC kingslayer does exist, but you can only king slayer one unit so once you bring one big guy you don't get further punished by bringing more. The damage out put is better than two dps at full wounds and better than one when he starts getting low. Plus he has the variable weapon.

Down side is he kinda shakes up the list alot as my pink horror screen starts to be abit pointless as a screen as they are only really protecting against turn 1 charges???

2. Replace the pink horror screen with plague drones. Plague drones are tough and fast. They can better keep up with the Dps instead of deep striking they can just fly up with them. They are for the points much tougher than the horror squad is. No one ever takes reaper against me as they know it's really easy for me to deny, but taking the plague drones would remove any thoughts of reaper being a realistic option for my opponent. Lastly, for benefits it will give me some more cp as The pinks require morale check protection.

The down sides are that the plague drones make a much worse melee screen as few models make them abit more porous. Dropping the pinks takes away my ability to score first blood/first strike (ITC old school), as the pinks were my consistent way of scoring that. Q

3. Por que no los dos, I could do both. Taking the blood thirster and plague drones. Benefit is I have the power and benefits of the blood thirster, and the plague drones can move up as a screen. We also sure up the weakness of low CP freeing me up to have 4 CP to use on stuff like warp surge. Downside is plague drones still remain abit of a poor screen when compared to pinks and I lose first blood potential.

TLDR: -2dp for blood thirst - pinks for plague drones, - pinks and dps for blood thirster and plague drones.

Thanks for any input

You may consider adding a changeling in - the 6+++ with the LoC set-up is decent - also buffs the horror screen

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
What do we reckon is the mass of Nurgle Daemons that make Epidemius worth it?

To me, epidemius is an all or nothing model. Don't bring him if you are doing mono god, because the chances of missing out on the tally are too great. Bringing along non chaos daemons units can make the tally really impressive. Oblits are great for the turn 1 tally, bloat drones having S-user weapons makes for a very nice buff.

Typo check: surely you meant to have a "not" in there?

Mark.

Noob looking for advice. I'm starting a daemon army for 8th edition. I've been playing for about 5+ years now. I'm really leaning to a mono-khorne army. How well do mono armies do? It doesn't have to be super competitive. Any tips would be great.

I already have 1 herald on Jug, 2blood throwns/skullcannons, 10 blood letters, and 3 blood crushers.

Mono army's don't don't do so well. However mono detachments can be quite effective.

You need a lot more Bloodletters if you plan on going down the khorne path. I would also suggest a dp and skulltaker.

mmimzie wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
What do we reckon is the mass of Nurgle Daemons that make Epidemius worth it?

the problerm with epi isn't so muich about worth... its more a issue with the game. killing stuff turn 1 and 2 is already so important. where epidemius doesn't really tun on until turn 3 and by then the winner as been decided. So he's kind of a win more model, andn ot the big swing model you'd want him to be.

I totally disagree with this. I have tried some variations for epi list and all I have to say is that almost all games I get 5-7 tally turn 3. Almost turn 1 for 2 kills. I use plaguebearer bombs at least 9 nurgle oblits.

Azuza001 wrote:
Mono army's don't don't do so well. However mono detachments can be quite effective.

You need a lot more Bloodletters if you plan on going down the khorne path. I would also suggest a dp and skulltaker.

I plan on adding hounds, a DP and a Bloodthirster to my list at some point. I'm thinking about 60 bloodletters?

@Glitcha - Mono Chaos Daemons of Khorne might struggle a bit. It won’t be easy to cover all the bases and also have enough Command Points to play all the dirty tricks we like to spring.

Mono units with the Khorne and Daemon keywords? That’s another story. A Spearhead of Obliterators led by a Daemon Prince, a Vanguard of Decimators led by a Juggerlord - they’ll hit hard, and can all benefit from the auras of your Heralds and Bloodthirsters, and can play things like Veterans of the Long War.

 lindsay40k wrote:
@Glitcha - Mono Chaos Daemons of Khorne might struggle a bit. It won’t be easy to cover all the bases and also have enough Command Points to play all the dirty tricks we like to spring.

Mono units with the Khorne and Daemon keywords? That’s another story. A Spearhead of Obliterators led by a Daemon Prince, a Vanguard of Decimators led by a Juggerlord - they’ll hit hard, and can all benefit from the auras of your Heralds and Bloodthirsters, and can play things like Veterans of the Long War.

I'm thinking about having Skullcannons for range support. Just 3 of them.

mono korne is nearly unplayable in competitive, if you dont have any efficienr way to remove cheap screens your precious letters slam into cultists, brimstones, nurglings imperial guard guards men ecc... and then obliterated by fire and countercharge, you need something to remove screens and engage something worth , imho. Korne works great with Tzeentch, horrors and/or flamers in 1st wave clean up screens then backed up by letters.

Monokhorne does have the advantage that it can deep strike bomb reasonably well. You can drop 3x20 Bloodletters + 1 Herald for 4CP. Using the Herald to reroll charges.

you cand drop 60 letters but if you cant wipe out screens you do nothing with them they charge and kill chaffs, you can easily face lists with 90 cultists (sometimes fearless so you forced to kill all 40 of them in a single swing), 30-40 brimstones, you would face dangerous gunlines (think about charge 30 horrors for 90 shots or 40 cultists for 80 shots) lot of IG guardsmen, they deny you any key charge, letters are fragile when they are shooted back or charged and cant fight first, that's what i meant
I guess a mix of melee and shoot is needed to be more competitive.

 blackmage wrote:
you cand drop 60 letters but if you cant wipe out screens you do nothing with them they charge and kill chaffs, you can easily face lists with 90 cultists (sometimes fearless so you forced to kill all 40 of them in a single swing), 30-40 brimstones, you should face dangerous gunlines (think about charge 30 horrors for 90 shots or 40 cultists for 80 shots) lot of IG guardsmen, they deny you any interesting charge, letters are fragile when they are shooted back or charged and cant fight first, that's what i meant
I guess a mix of melee and shoot is needed to be more competitive.

I'm beginning to dislike screenhammer. It seems most of all of my lists begin with a bucketload of brimstones, Even my Khorne lists.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
you cand drop 60 letters but if you cant wipe out screens you do nothing with them they charge and kill chaffs, you can easily face lists with 90 cultists (sometimes fearless so you forced to kill all 40 of them in a single swing), 30-40 brimstones, you should face dangerous gunlines (think about charge 30 horrors for 90 shots or 40 cultists for 80 shots) lot of IG guardsmen, they deny you any interesting charge, letters are fragile when they are shooted back or charged and cant fight first, that's what i meant
I guess a mix of melee and shoot is needed to be more competitive.

I'm beginning to dislike screenhammer. It seems most of all of my lists begin with a bucketload of brimstones, Even my Khorne lists.

it's the way they shaped the game.. when you have tons of alpha strikes units, what else you can do?