Chaos Daemon Tactica - 8th Edition

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**mmimzie**

Yeah those tactical reserves hit us really hard. that said we did get ALOT of CP because if any army could spam battalions it's Guard or Daemons.

**orkswubwub**

knas wrote:
New FAQ is up. https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_The_Big_FAQ_1_2018_en.pdf

No more Alphastrike, Smite beta rules went through and a small feculent grimgnaw nerf. Could have been worse though, Eldar got nerfed hard

TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at
least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.
Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).
Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.

Can we just be clear this is a beta rule? Your post is extremely misleading...

**Unit1126PLL**

It is a beta rule, but it's kinda funny to be like "can we not use the deepstrike rules that heavily nerfs my army?" For a game.

If my opponent says no, I will happily deepstrike & charge, but I don't want to ask for it...

**mrhappyface**

So much for being able to clear out bubblewrap units before the big units get here. Seriously, why does GW hate CC armies?

**Unit1126PLL**

mrhappyface wrote:
So much for being able to clear out bubblewrap units before the big units get here. Seriously, why does GW hate CC armies?

To be fair, this is a good role for the much maligned Daemonette. They can easily get 20"+ inches across the board Turn 1 and can chew up screens/bubble wrap fairly trivially, while the other Gods with their actually better daemons follow up to mop up.

**mrhappyface**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
So much for being able to clear out bubblewrap units before the big units get here. Seriously, why does GW hate CC armies?

To be fair, this is a good role for the much maligned Daemonette. They can easily get 20"+ inches across the board Turn 1 and can chew up screens/bubble wrap fairly trivially, while the other Gods with their actually better daemons follow up to mop up.

Aye but not all of us play Slaanesh.

As a Khorne player, this is is gonna hurt: nothing to cut down bubblewrap units turn 1 and no way of distracting your opponent from shooting at ground units while they move up the board. I seriously don't know why they made it so you can't deepstrike in the enemies deployment turn 1, they've completely neutered CC armies that relied on a turn 1 charge to even have a chance of winning.

**Unit1126PLL**

mrhappyface wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
So much for being able to clear out bubblewrap units before the big units get here. Seriously, why does GW hate CC armies?

To be fair, this is a good role for the much maligned Daemonette. They can easily get 20"+ inches across the board Turn 1 and can chew up screens/bubble wrap fairly trivially, while the other Gods with their actually better daemons follow up to mop up.

Aye but not all of us play Slaanesh.

As a Khorne player, this is is gonna hurt: nothing to cut down bubblewrap units turn 1 and no way of distracting your opponent from shooting at ground units while they move up the board. I seriously don't know why they made it so you can't deepstrike in the enemies deployment turn 1, they've completely neutered CC armies that relied on a turn 1 charge to even have a chance of winning.

I mean, as a mono-Slaanesh player, I've been hurt the whole time, lol. Mono-God just isn't as good anymore as it used to be. This is the first time since 8th dropped that I've felt like Slaanesh have been able to do something the other Gods couldn't, and that something is get turn 1 charges. Otherwise, they never had a role.

**mrhappyface**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, as a mono-Slaanesh player, I've been hurt the whole time, lol. Mono-God just isn't as good anymore as it used to be. This is the first time since 8th dropped that I've felt like Slaanesh have been able to do something the other Gods couldn't, and that something is get turn 1 charges. Otherwise, they never had a role.

That doesn't make Slaanesh good though, just makes Khorne just as bad.

**Unit1126PLL**

mrhappyface wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, as a mono-Slaanesh player, I've been hurt the whole time, lol. Mono-God just isn't as good anymore as it used to be. This is the first time since 8th dropped that I've felt like Slaanesh have been able to do something the other Gods couldn't, and that something is get turn 1 charges. Otherwise, they never had a role.

That doesn't make Slaanesh good though, just makes Khorne just as bad.

That's what happens when the only word people know for balance is "nerf!".
I said it and I'll say it again: people should have been asking for other armies to get buffed up, rather than the good armies to get knocked down.

**mmimzie**

actualy might be abit of a buff to the blood letter bomb, but it requires some 3d chess

For 1 you never drop the blood letter bomb turn 1 anyway.

Then with no other armies other than GSC having deep strike melee stuff. Armies in the meta might tend to go toward bring less chaff and scouts. For instance i know i'm going to cut down on my nurglings as they are now not really all that useful when comepared to brim stones??? out side of ITC missions like recon or something, and even then i only need 1 or 2 squads of those.

So now you can just drop your bomb turn two into less chaffe. Only thing that's lame is that i had hoped summoning wouldn't have been affected, but i think it is??

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Unit1126PLL wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean, as a mono-Slaanesh player, I've been hurt the whole time, lol. Mono-God just isn't as good anymore as it used to be. This is the first time since 8th dropped that I've felt like Slaanesh have been able to do something the other Gods couldn't, and that something is get turn 1 charges. Otherwise, they never had a role.

That doesn't make Slaanesh good though, just makes Khorne just as bad.

That's what happens when the only word people know for balance is "nerf!".
I said it and I'll say it again: people should have been asking for other armies to get buffed up, rather than the good armies to get knocked down.

Other armies were actualy buffed quite decently from some of these changes, but only is weird ways. For instance grey nights and thousand sons got abit of a smite buff. Plus daemons got a big CP buff 1 in not deep striking so much, but more so in reguard to having just a whole lot more CP tanks to have very easy access to good battalions.

**Unit1126PLL**

That's true, those are good points. Less chaff is likely, as armies try to double down on the "OP big guns" meaning there's less to clear, and a turn 2 charge from an unhurt unit would therefore be more devastating than a turn 1 charge would be in the current meta.

**mrhappyface**

Chaff is going to go up as people try to fill more battalions for the +5CP (again, another thing I don't understand: who was GW talking to that said Battalions aren't good enough?)

**techsoldaten**

mrhappyface wrote:
Chaff is going to go up as people try to fill more battalions for the +5CP (again, another thing I don't understand: who was GW talking to that said Battalions aren't good enough?)

It's supposed to be a buff for mono-faction armies. But it's not going to work that way...

I can fill 3 batallions of CSMs, not sure what I am going to do with 20 CPs now that ToT is one use only.

I guess I will use Endless Cacophony once per turn. This is a huge buff for Chaos.

**EverlastingNewb**

mrhappyface wrote:
Chaff is going to go up as people try to fill more battalions for the +5CP (again, another thing I don't understand: who was GW talking to that said Battalions aren't good enough?)

i don't think this was about 'Battalions being not good enough' but giving the player the incentive to use not just 1 Battalion & 2 Supreme commands or the likes. Also, while not really being viable for Daemons, Brigade are now worthwile.

**AstraVlad**

It seems blue horrors became totally useless now with new rules for Smite. It will be no reason to try to cast it with horrors anyway, so we will take Brimstones to fill battalion slots and Pinks for some shooting and there will be no place for Blues...

**Elric Greywolf**

Blues are for reinforcement splitting in order to keep your Pinks above 20.

While that's a sketchy move at best, it IS their best move.

**AstraVlad**

Elric Greywolf wrote:
Blues are for reinforcement splitting in order to keep your Pinks above 20.

While that's a sketchy move at best, it IS their best move.

I'm sorry, but Magical Horde rule tells about "20 or more Pink Horrors", not "Pink Horrors unit with 20 or more Horrors". So Blues are totally irrelevant to that rule.

**mmimzie**

AstraVlad wrote:
Elric Greywolf wrote:
Blues are for reinforcement splitting in order to keep your Pinks above 20.

While that's a sketchy move at best, it IS their best move.

I'm sorry, but Magical Horde rule tells about "20 or more Pink Horrors", not "Pink Horrors unit with 20 or more Horrors". So Blues are totally irrelevant to that rule.

No what he's refering to is keeping reinforcement poitns for the first 10 pink horrors that die in your pink horror unit. So your opponent has to kill 50 models before you go under 20. So no apology required lol.

**AstraVlad**

mmimzie wrote:

No what he's refering to is keeping reinforcement poitns for the first 10 pink horrors that die in your pink horror unit. So your opponent has to kill 50 models before you go under 20. So no apology required lol.

And what is the reason to keep a mixed unit of horrors above 20 models?

**kodos**

AstraVlad wrote:

I'm sorry, but Magical Horde rule tells about "20 or more Pink Horrors", not "Pink Horrors unit with 20 or more Horrors". So Blues are totally irrelevant to that rule.

yeah, so you take 20 Pinks and 5 Blues, and than kill of the Blues and replace them with Yellows and end up with 20 Pinks and 10 Yellows

just to save points as 25 Pinks + replacement points for Blues and Yellow is expensive

**mmimzie**

AstraVlad wrote:
mmimzie wrote:

No what he's refering to is keeping reinforcement poitns for the first 10 pink horrors that die in your pink horror unit. So your opponent has to kill 50 models before you go under 20. So no apology required lol.

And what is the reason to keep a mixed unit of horrors above 20 models?

Its not mixed it's a unit of >20 pink specificly. SO you have 30 horrors if your opponent was to kill 11 to bring you under 20, than they ahve to kill 51 models. Your adding stuff to what elric said.

**AstraVlad**

kodos wrote:
AstraVlad wrote:

I'm sorry, but Magical Horde rule tells about "20 or more Pink Horrors", not "Pink Horrors unit with 20 or more Horrors". So Blues are totally irrelevant to that rule.

yeah, so you take 20 Pinks and 5 Blues, and than kill of the Blues and replace them with Yellows and end up with 20 Pinks and 10 Yellows

This can make sense, thank you. I should definitely try it as a counter-intercept measure.

**gwarsh41**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yay, buff for mono-Slaanesh relative to the other gods, so we can use our speed to get across the board!

*ducks*

Slaanesh and nurgle are the only viable ones with the FAQ. Plague drones getting a buff with the PLAGUEBEAERER keyword makes turn 1 charges with a gnarlmaw a real possibility. Move+advance+charge would be: 12+(d6+1)+(2d6+1) For a max threat range of 32 inches if the stars align. Even if you fail the charge, blobs of plague drones are pretty dang tough.

My meta doesn't use beta rules, so I've got no worries. I'll wait until they are official. If something has to happen, I think nerfing ability to hit on the turn deep strikers arrive is the way to do it. You can still hold up your opponent in CC, or do some damage, but with a worse BS/WS, you wont be wiping them turn 1.

**BlaxicanX**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
So much for being able to clear out bubblewrap units before the big units get here. Seriously, why does GW hate CC armies?

To be fair, this is a good role for the much maligned Daemonette. They can easily get 20"+ inches across the board Turn 1 and can chew up screens/bubble wrap fairly trivially, while the other Gods with their actually better daemons follow up to mop up.

Nerfing DS assault does nothing to make Slaanesh units not hot gutter trash. All it does is bring non-slaanesh units down to their level.

Its like brining your C-list athlete off the bench after your A-lister breaks his leg. The dude is still a C-list player.

**rvd1ofakind**

Ruins are now unchargeable. Thoughts? ..........................................................................................

**mrhappyface**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ruins are now unchargeable. Thoughts? ..........................................................................................

Why's that?

**rvd1ofakind**

A base must fit in the floor. You can't use wobbly anymore. 3 models easily can cover an entire floor like that. New FAQ change

**Virules**

Yeah between the floors changes and the unnecessary crippling of deep strike, I think there is zero reason to play faction Chaos Daemons anymore. It was already not popular in a competitive setting except occasionally as minor allies to other Chaos armies. I am the #4 Daemons ITC player in the world right now despite only have 3 RTTs in my name and not winning any of them. After this, the number of people bothering to full-on play the faction in a competitive setting will wither from very few to almost none. I'm tempted to give up and just play my Tau and blow everything off the table with ignore LOS shooting.

**ArmchairArbiter**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
A base must fit in the floor. You can't use wobbly anymore. 3 models easily can cover an entire floor like that. New FAQ change

Can't you fight a unit that is a floor above you anyway in a ruin/building?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlaxicanX wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
So much for being able to clear out bubblewrap units before the big units get here. Seriously, why does GW hate CC armies?

To be fair, this is a good role for the much maligned Daemonette. They can easily get 20"+ inches across the board Turn 1 and can chew up screens/bubble wrap fairly trivially, while the other Gods with their actually better daemons follow up to mop up.
Nerfing DS assault does nothing to make Slaanesh units not hot gutter trash. All it does is bring non-slaanesh units down to their level.

Its like brining your C-list athlete off the bench after your A-lister breaks his leg. The dude is still a C-list player.

I'm not sure why Slaanesh units are considered hot garbage. My mono-Slaanesh army has been doing quite well. This change to the rules gives their niche a lot of extra value, as when I discussed daemons with other people the deep striking bloodletters/plaguebearers stood out over daemonettes because they could just drop in for a charge. Daemonettes can definitely get some work in IMO. So now while letters/plaguebearers can, on paper, do more damage, the daemonettes are better/faster delivery.

Just what's rumbling around in my head. My hellflayers and such have been doing really well too.

**Dactylartha**

Can someone help me understand how the Unstoppable Ferocity affects Skarbrand weapons? Does it add +1 after the multiplier now instead of before?

Page 85
– Unstoppable Ferocity
Change the rules text to read:
‘If this unit makes a charge move, is charged, or
performs a Heroic Intervention, then until the end of
the turn add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of all its
models and add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all
the melee weapons the unit is armed with.