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ArmchairArbiter wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
I can't see the Santa version bring that useful either way, due to being over 10 wounds and not actually that difficult to kill.

I think he’ll be surprising viable. Not in a tournament probably but in general with friends from casual to a semi competitive environment

Yeah but that goes for pretty much any unit.

jcd386 wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
I can't see the Santa version bring that useful either way, due to being over 10 wounds and not actually that difficult to kill.

I think he’ll be surprising viable. Not in a tournament probably but in general with friends from casual to a semi competitive environment

Yeah but that goes for pretty much any unit.

thats all you can really expect, "compeitive" these days consists of "the most broken units across a dozen codices"

BrianDavion wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Looks like in the codex if we want Logan Grimnar we have to take his Santa Claus version. Sure, they gave him better stuff, but unless he's less than 10 wounds now no one in their right mind is going to take him in the sleigh.

why do you say that? I heard he got a points adjustment on foot. did they actually remove him? if so we can at least index him if it comes to it.

Ah, I think the screenshot I saw just had the entry for him on foot cut off. All I saw was the "Logan Grimnar on Stormrider" line. My bad.

I'm a bit annoyed that all the reviewers compare the points cost to the Index and not Chapter Approved. Eyeryone telling you about massive points drop that actually already happened last year.
What really changed is not very much:
Björn down 20 points
Wolf Guard down1 point (I think)
Fenrisisan Wolves up 2 points
Fenrisian great Axe up 10
Blizzard Shield down 15 but only 4++ now and can take stormbolter or hv flamer
Stormfang got cheaper because main weapon is now free


We lost: all characters on bike, WG on bikes, Iron Priest on Wolf, combi-weapons on all PA priests

apparently no smoke launcher on the Wulfen Dread

edit: yes, WG now 15 each
forgot to mention Logan, got also cheaper on both versions

The WG change is nice, and hopefully indicative of future marine points drops.

Stormfang is down 50 points?! Time to get two more!

So how will SW fair in a match against a Khorne army? Have Berzerkers finally met their match with the codex?

 vaklor4 wrote:
So how will SW fair in a match against a Khorne army? Have Berzerkers finally met their match with the codex?

I'd say they aren't really comparable. Berzerkers are better at close combat, but SW have a lot more tricks and better shooting.

 vaklor4 wrote:
So how will SW fair in a match against a Khorne army? Have Berzerkers finally met their match with the codex?

Assume both brings just close combat guys. Then if a horde of Khorne Berserkers charged first, I believe they crush similarly costs Space Wolves infantries or TWC almost 100% sure. If Space Wolves made the charge, maybe they would have 60% chances to win with units having comparable cost to the hordes of Berserkers. IMO The brutallity of tons of attacks have much much greater potential than the improved efficiency of +1 to hit in a direct fight.

However, if we are talking about taking down an Imperial Knight, a pack of 5 Wuflen with 4 TH/SS which have similar points to 20 Berserkers would likely do better, doing like 14 wounds to the Knight compare to around 11 wounds the Berserkers can inflict.

jcd386 wrote:
The WG change is nice, and hopefully indicative of future marine points drops.

I really hope that's a change we can see for all the Marine vets. I really do think 15 points is correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ragnar69 wrote:
I'm a bit annoyed that all the reviewers compare the points cost to the Index and not Chapter Approved. Eyeryone telling you about massive points drop that actually already happened last year.
What really changed is not very much:
Björn down 20 points
Wolf Guard down1 point (I think)
Fenrisisan Wolves up 2 points
Fenrisian great Axe up 10
Blizzard Shield down 15 but only 4++ now and can take stormbolter or hv flamer
Stormfang got cheaper because main weapon is now free


We lost: all characters on bike, WG on bikes, Iron Priest on Wolf, combi-weapons on all PA priests

apparently no smoke launcher on the Wulfen Dread

edit: yes, WG now 15 each
forgot to mention Logan, got also cheaper on both versions

Does Grimnar do anything in particular or is he a glorified beatstick?

Why should stern-/ vanguard veterans be only 15 points? They have the same statline as WG but additional special rules.

Logan has exactly the same rules as before.

Ragnar69 wrote:
Why should stern-/ vanguard veterans be only 15 points? They have the same statline as WG but additional special rules.

And pray tell what those special rules are.

Ragnar69 wrote:


apparently no smoke launcher on the Wulfen Dread

Chaos and Xeno armies get to stack a bunch of -1 buffs by simply existing, but noooo we gotta rein back the marines, can't have them get any remotely good combos can we?

Spent 30 bucks on 10 prebuilt, red primed jump pack guys with bolt pistols, chainswords and two flamers.

Going to make them Skyclaws / Wolf Guard.

Highly considering running two five mane wolf guard, jump packs, shields and hammers. Drop them on my wulfen and a wolf priest when gak gets real.

Wolf priest with wolfkin stone giving those wolf guard an extra hammer swing. Everyone hitting on 3s, rerolling their 1s, 2s.

I imagine it'd chew through a lot of stuff. If the wolf guard get focused down, use that new stratagem to turn one of them into a menace.

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I'm considering also picking up a Leviathan with dual grav guns or storm cannons. Which would you guys consider better? I'm leaving towards the grav guns.

 CatGotYourLas wrote:

I'm considering also picking up a Leviathan with dual grav guns or storm cannons. Which would you guys consider better? I'm leaving towards the grav guns.

I would go Grav/Storm or possibly double Storm. I don't think I would bother with double grav.

Or just get a Knight.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
Why should stern-/ vanguard veterans be only 15 points? They have the same statline as WG but additional special rules.

And pray tell what those special rules are.

combat squads.
They used to have additional rules back in the day but yeah, now they don't. I suippose vanguard vets CAN take metlabombs and sternguard CAN take heavy flamers but hardly seems worth extra points if you ask me

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
Why should stern-/ vanguard veterans be only 15 points? They have the same statline as WG but additional special rules.

And pray tell what those special rules are.

combat squads.
They used to have additional rules back in the day but yeah, now they don't. I suippose vanguard vets CAN take metlabombs and sternguard CAN take heavy flamers but hardly seems worth extra points if you ask me

Well if Ragnar can justify an extra point per model for Combat Squad I'd like to see it.

It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?

Northern85Star wrote:
It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?

more likely another case of "no model no rulez"

Northern85Star wrote:
It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?

Just use the index, dude.

Northern85Star wrote:
It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?

All index wargear options are rules legal. This also applies to the bike HQs, they are still playable.

 vaklor4 wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?

All index wargear options are rules legal. This also applies to the bike HQs, they are still playable.

This. So much this. I don't know why everyone's freaking out about losing the options for Wolf Guard on bikes and stuff; the Index entries are still legal for these things. Just remember the flowchart GW released way back when.

My only issue is the index option i would want to run is rune priest on bike, and the index version doesn't get the 2 powers known like the updated ones would. Other than that yeah, we have a lot of stuff still in the index avalible to us.

I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought in past editions a unit entry had the base unit and then listed the options beliw with the points cost? Ex: Marine Captain. May take a bike or up pack for "x" amount of points. Why can't they just put the entries in the dex like that? Less space used in the book and we don't have to look all over for what we need. I have the real concern that the index will become invalid one day and all the characters and wolfguard on bikes I've been using since the start of 8th will be obsolete. I'll adapt but I spent a lot of time gathering bits and converting etc. can't get the time back.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought in past editions a unit entry had the base unit and then listed the options beliw with the points cost? Ex: Marine Captain. May take a bike or up pack for "x" amount of points. Why can't they just put the entries in the dex like that? Less space used in the book and we don't have to look all over for what we need. I have the real concern that the index will become invalid one day and all the characters and wolfguard on bikes I've been using since the start of 8th will be obsolete. I'll adapt but I spent a lot of time gathering bits and converting etc. can't get the time back.

Because of power levels and having to write 5 different statlines on the datasheet. There are no geneal rules anymore like bike = M12 and T+1 which you could apply yourself

I suspect the index will be invalid at some point after all codices has been released, but nice to know that i can still use the wargear options!

Another point is that it seems the Saga of Majesty is an immune to morale aura. It makes no sense that Grimnar has this trait, as it makes his aura ability making WG immune to morale pointless. I really hope that the Saga of Majesty is changed in the final print.

Northern85Star wrote:
I suspect the index will be invalid at some point after all codices has been released, but nice to know that i can still use the wargear options!

Another point is that it seems the Saga of Majesty is an immune to morale aura. It makes no sense that Grimnar has this trait, as it makes his aura ability making WG immune to morale pointless. I really hope that the Saga of Majesty is changed in the final print.

He won't always be your warlord so it's not completely irrelevant.

 vaklor4 wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?

All index wargear options are rules legal. This also applies to the bike HQs, they are still playable.

Thank Russ. I absolutely love my Biker wolf priest and rune Priest conversions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Northern85Star wrote:
I suspect the index will be invalid at some point after all codices has been released, but nice to know that i can still use the wargear options!

Another point is that it seems the Saga of Majesty is an immune to morale aura. It makes no sense that Grimnar has this trait, as it makes his aura ability making WG immune to morale pointless. I really hope that the Saga of Majesty is changed in the final print.

I've been seeing a lot of conflicting info from the leaks and what GW showed us. Either they dropped the ball HARD on this codex printing, or they had a pre-release version of the codex that is different from the actual one. Grimnar having a nearly useless warlord trait is a perfect example.

Notable things I've seen:

In GW stream, Majesty was +3" to aura range, now it is auto pass moral.
In GW stream they showed the feats to change warlord traits into auras, those are all gone everywhere else.
In the stream, the stormfang helfrost did a mortal wound on +4, not +6, as it's shown now.

We'll either see the largest, and fastest FAQ for a codex, or GW sent out a dummy book a week early for some reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought in past editions a unit entry had the base unit and then listed the options beliw with the points cost? Ex: Marine Captain. May take a bike or up pack for "x" amount of points. Why can't they just put the entries in the dex like that? Less space used in the book and we don't have to look all over for what we need. I have the real concern that the index will become invalid one day and all the characters and wolfguard on bikes I've been using since the start of 8th will be obsolete. I'll adapt but I spent a lot of time gathering bits and converting etc. can't get the time back.

Currently the Rule of 3 would be a bit harsher. Right now you can bring 3 foot, 3 TDA, 3 bike, and 3 jump of standard SM captains.

I really doubt the indexs will ever be invalid totally. Why bother? There are index options that are actually quite different from the codex (Daemon riding Chaos Lords in CSM for example) that in no way shape or form hurt their buisness.

I think it's just one big scare to think that GW would remove content just for the sake of tidying things up. You're really gonna tell me the creators of 7th edition are gonna remove rules and content to make things more streamlined? HAH.

 vaklor4 wrote:
I really doubt the indexs will ever be invalid totally. Why bother? There are index options that are actually quite different from the codex (Daemon riding Chaos Lords in CSM for example) that in no way shape or form hurt their buisness.

I think it's just one big scare to think that GW would remove content just for the sake of tidying things up. You're really gonna tell me the creators of 7th edition are gonna remove rules and content to make things more streamlined? HAH.

It's not that the Index options will be outright invalidated, but it is inevitable that GW will stop selling the Indexes and we don't know the shelf-life of the Designer's Commentary.
What happens when Indexes aren't sold and the only place to find the DC is an old Warhammer Community article?
Will it still be valid? Probably, but it is very likely that GW will just move on without address it either way. IMO, that is worse that just outright saying they're invalid as it leaves it ambiguous for the players to come up with the answer

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