Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can anyone provide some tactical advice on this list?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/733106.page

Thinking about buying some Space Wolves models this weekend.

Reply in the list thread.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Reply in the list thread.

Thanks, I have answered the questions. Keen to buy some SW models just need to get a viable list first haha.

So with the new errata and FAQ out today I feel like we almost got a buff. If I'm reading it wrong someone inform me but it looks out wolf guard pack leaders can dual wield plasma pistols now and all the pack leaders wg and standard have access to the space wolves melee weapons instead of limiting us to the regular power weapons. It looks like our terminators can now carry stormshields as well as a combi bolter! So that's sweet! Again I may have read something wrong but some of this is pretty helpful and will end up changing my list building a little.

I haven't been able to check my book for comparison but they did something to ragnars points as well.

Looks like TWC can take bolt pistols and storm shields again, but I'm still thinking I need to adjust my existing models because a chainsword is better on TWC than a stupid pistol.

Yep! So basically back to how it was.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
So with the new errata and FAQ out today I feel like we almost got a buff. If I'm reading it wrong someone inform me but it looks out wolf guard pack leaders can dual wield plasma pistols now and all the pack leaders wg and standard have access to the space wolves melee weapons instead of limiting us to the regular power weapons. It looks like our terminators can now carry stormshields as well as a combi bolter! So that's sweet! Again I may have read something wrong but some of this is pretty helpful and will end up changing my list building a little.

I haven't been able to check my book for comparison but they did something to ragnars points as well.

I think you're right about WGPLs being able to dual-wield Plasma pistols, but I didn't see anything related to regular non-WG pack leaders being able to take anything special beyond what they already could.

Wolf guard bikers got a HUGE nerf. No more SB/SS and a melee weapon. If you take a SS you have to take either a melee weapon or a combi.

What this means is that after getting to rapid fire range you really dont want to charge because the offensive output in melee is crippled. And if you dont charge you are very vulnerable to getting charged and essentially shut down for at least one shooting phase.

Thinking of dropping a few shields and taking power weapons to still offer a viable melee threat. Still keeping Storm bolters for all. I have a unit of 7 currently.

Cant say the nerf couldnt be seen miles away and I'm all for balance. However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

 Weazel wrote:
However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

I'm interested in how you opted to manage the four armed wolf guard conundrum. Specifically, how you chose to model a guy who wants an arm for his bike, an arm for a storm/combi bolter, an arm for a melee weapon, and an arm for a shield. Assuming you stick the shield to the bike frame or arm or backpack of the guy, that still leaves three arms worth of stuff. Did you forgo the handlebars? Stick a sheathed melee weapon on the model somewhere? Put a stowed combi/storm bolter on the bike? Grab Grey Knight storm bolters and mount them to the forearm of the arm reaching for the handlebars (what I'm leaning toward.)

I'm curious how you chose to model your dudes, even if the specific load outs are no longer legal.

It's fair. The possibility of bringing that many weapons was clearly a mistake. You can still have two weapons plus the bike which is a lot. One less attack at S4 with no AP shouldn't change that much for a unit of 5-7 dudes.

I've not bought them yet but I was planning to stick in that unit just a single shield anyway since I consider them basically a shooty anti-infantries unit.

Expensive models that can have a large choice of options may be magnetized. It worths the effort.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ryzouken wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

I'm interested in how you opted to manage the four armed wolf guard conundrum. Specifically, how you chose to model a guy who wants an arm for his bike, an arm for a storm/combi bolter, an arm for a melee weapon, and an arm for a shield. Assuming you stick the shield to the bike frame or arm or backpack of the guy, that still leaves three arms worth of stuff. Did you forgo the handlebars? Stick a sheathed melee weapon on the model somewhere? Put a stowed combi/storm bolter on the bike? Grab Grey Knight storm bolters and mount them to the forearm of the arm reaching for the handlebars (what I'm leaning toward.)

I'm curious how you chose to model your dudes, even if the specific load outs are no longer legal.

You model the bikes with 2 weapons, none of their arms touching the handlebars.

Sheathed weapons easily count as chainswords (couple have them out as well), Storm Bolter in one hand (or hanging on the waist or even mounted between the bolters on the bike) and storm shields either on hand or attached to the front plate of the bike for ease of access. Not like they are wielding them all at the same time anyway...

Might have to remove a few shields now or replace the melee weapon arms though. Need to playtest a few different loadouts first. Might just keep them as they are because we are not super zealous on WYSIWYG, just as long as you know and tell your opponent what everything is and what the models are carrying. It's either going to be everyone with SS/SB or 1-3 guys with SB and a melee weapon (without the shield). Need to try which loadout works best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah magnetizing is nice, however I seldom do it for infantry since the arms or weapons are so small they tend to get lost in what is called da-pile-of-models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I don't think SS is solely for CC, on the contrary I think it's more valuable when doing ranged battle. Without any shields the bikes would just be picked off by a salvo of overcharged plasma or any medium to high strength high AP weapons that do multiple damage. Shields ramp up the survivability considerably.

 Weazel wrote:

Also I don't think SS is solely for CC, on the contrary I think it's more valuable when doing ranged battle. Without any shields the bikes would just be picked off by a salvo of overcharged plasma or any medium to high strength high AP weapons that do multiple damage. Shields ramp up the survivability considerably.

I agree, shields are quite useful to save bikers from enemy shooting, however there should be in the SW list several other targrets that are more appropriate than bikers for anti tank weapons. Things like wulfen, thunderwolves, terminator, razorback or the flyer should soak all the high strength and AP shots. Especially if you keep the WG bikers quite cheap and mostly a shooty unit, they will only attract the S4-5 firepower since everyting else is embarked, out of range (long fangs) or way more killy. One or two shields should be enough in unit with only stormbolters and chainswords.

 Blackie wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Also I don't think SS is solely for CC, on the contrary I think it's more valuable when doing ranged battle. Without any shields the bikes would just be picked off by a salvo of overcharged plasma or any medium to high strength high AP weapons that do multiple damage. Shields ramp up the survivability considerably.

I agree, shields are quite useful to save bikers from enemy shooting, however there should be in the SW list several other targrets that are more appropriate than bikers for anti tank weapons. Things like wulfen, thunderwolves, terminator, razorback or the flyer should soak all the high strength and AP shots. Especially if you keep the WG bikers quite cheap and mostly a shooty unit, they will only attract the S4-5 firepower since everyting else is embarked, out of range (long fangs) or way more killy. One or two shields should be enough in unit with only stormbolters and chainswords.

Valid points, and I have targets for Lascannons and other true Anti-tank weapons but for plasma weapons the bikes are a prime target. I wouldn't waste plasma firepower trying to get a few wounds off of tanks when I can actually kill a couple of models and considerably hamper another unit's firepower. I don't run TWC or Wulfen and my terminators are in a Land Raider so there isn't much else to shoot at at least on the first turn, so a few Storm Shields is absolutely mandatory. I'm thinking of 4 shields at the moment in a unit of 7.

ryzouken wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

I'm interested in how you opted to manage the four armed wolf guard conundrum. Specifically, how you chose to model a guy who wants an arm for his bike, an arm for a storm/combi bolter, an arm for a melee weapon, and an arm for a shield. Assuming you stick the shield to the bike frame or arm or backpack of the guy, that still leaves three arms worth of stuff. Did you forgo the handlebars? Stick a sheathed melee weapon on the model somewhere? Put a stowed combi/storm bolter on the bike? Grab Grey Knight storm bolters and mount them to the forearm of the arm reaching for the handlebars (what I'm leaning toward.)

I'm curious how you chose to model your dudes, even if the specific load outs are no longer legal.

Sheathed chainsword/sword/axe/maul.
Storm Shield slung over the backpack.
One hand steering.
One hand blazing away with the Storm Bolter/Combi-weapon.

Sheathed chainsword/sword/axe/maul.
Sheathed Stormbolter.
One hand steering.
One hand holding the Storm Shield.

I've never much cared for the dual wielding on Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard, all open, howling and wanting to get shot.
Looks epic on Champions and Bloodclaws but I prefer my more experienced guys to look a bit more organised so I've been using kneedable epoxy to make sheaths and holsters for weapons for a while.

Nvm i misread that.

Just add all additional not-melee weapons to the Bike model
There is enough space to put special weapons and stormbolters
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-216-13949107495278.jpg

Not sure if this was discussed yet, but I took 2 single Cyberwolves to flesh out an Outrider detachment in a game on Saturday. They were surprisingly effective, providing 2 trash drops on deployment. I went 2nd and my opponent went offensive with a LRC carrying TH/SS Termies. I managed to charge it with 1 Cyberwolf and survive his overwatch and then hold up the LRC for 2 turns. The other also held up a razorback for a turn before eating a round of shots from an Ass-Razor. Thinking there might be something to taking these guys in the future.

Maybe, but it doesn't sound like something you fall for twice.

Nothing really to fall for, he had to devote a decent amount of fire to them to take them out as well, not just a storm bolter off the top of a vehicle.

They're also easy to hide behind other units like Razorbacks, and can charge without having LOS, but Overwatch still requires LOS as well.

I'm going to keep experimenting with them to see. At the very least they can grab objectives and provide trash-drops for deployment shenanigans.

 kodos wrote:
Just add all additional not-melee weapons to the Bike model
There is enough space to put special weapons and stormbolters
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-216-13949107495278.jpg

Hey, you kit-bashed Dork Angels bikes too!

"Hey, aren't those Ravenwing Bikes?"

"Repurposed for a more deserving army. The Machine Spirits approve."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did you make the mutt-head mudguard yourself or is it off something?

 More Dakka wrote:
Nothing really to fall for, he had to devote a decent amount of fire to them to take them out as well, not just a storm bolter off the top of a vehicle.

They're also easy to hide behind other units like Razorbacks, and can charge without having LOS, but Overwatch still requires LOS as well.

I'm going to keep experimenting with them to see. At the very least they can grab objectives and provide trash-drops for deployment shenanigans.

Yeah makes sense. It is unfortunate to pretty much always go 2nd because of that, though, too.

 Weazel wrote:
Wolf guard bikers got a HUGE nerf. No more SB/SS and a melee weapon. If you take a SS you have to take either a melee weapon or a combi.

What this means is that after getting to rapid fire range you really dont want to charge because the offensive output in melee is crippled. And if you dont charge you are very vulnerable to getting charged and essentially shut down for at least one shooting phase.

Thinking of dropping a few shields and taking power weapons to still offer a viable melee threat. Still keeping Storm bolters for all. I have a unit of 7 currently.

Cant say the nerf couldnt be seen miles away and I'm all for balance. However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

Are Storm Shields really necessary on Wolf Guard bikers? I ask because I haven't built mine yet. You say that you can't take both a chainsword and a storm bolter with a shield, but what if I just leave out the shield? Saves points, but is the reduced durability that awful? They don't cost that much more than standard bikers in other SM armies, after all.

I'm wondering how people will be playing the WG bikers after the errata and kind of had the same question about the storm shields as well. I bought everything I needed to build 5 of them with 4 weapons but held off on assembly and assumed there would be an errata on them pretty quick. Chainsword, combi weapon, and the bike's twin boltgun seem like an ok loadout. But I'm new to the game and could be wrong.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Wolf guard bikers got a HUGE nerf. No more SB/SS and a melee weapon. If you take a SS you have to take either a melee weapon or a combi.

What this means is that after getting to rapid fire range you really dont want to charge because the offensive output in melee is crippled. And if you dont charge you are very vulnerable to getting charged and essentially shut down for at least one shooting phase.

Thinking of dropping a few shields and taking power weapons to still offer a viable melee threat. Still keeping Storm bolters for all. I have a unit of 7 currently.

Cant say the nerf couldnt be seen miles away and I'm all for balance. However I just bought and modeled the bunch so I'm a bit annoyed.

Are Storm Shields really necessary on Wolf Guard bikers? I ask because I haven't built mine yet. You say that you can't take both a chainsword and a storm bolter with a shield, but what if I just leave out the shield? Saves points, but is the reduced durability that awful? They don't cost that much more than standard bikers in other SM armies, after all.

Anything with two or more wounds and decent output is worth coughing up five points a Storm Shield to have two chances at saving.
If the shields were ten or fifteen points a pop I would reconsider but at five points grab those shields!

If you want combat viability have a character cruise nearby ready to Glorius Intervention and bring the power weapons.
Otherwise I'd drop the Shield on the squad leader for a Power Weapon.

I'm especially annoyed by the nerf to Wolf Guard because it makes us explicitly worse than Company Veterans. Pre-nerf, for the same points cost, we lost the Bodyguard rule but gained an extra weapon. Now, it's just... Nada. Nothing. You get nothing.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm especially annoyed by the nerf to Wolf Guard because it makes us explicitly worse than Company Veterans. Pre-nerf, for the same points cost, we lost the Bodyguard rule but gained an extra weapon. Now, it's just... Nada. Nothing. You get nothing.

Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters. Maybe we'll get something related to bodyguard whenever the Codex hits. A straight up 2+ Look Out Sir would be more convenient than the constant bubblewrapping of characters. Not as an universal rule of course but for select units.

 Weazel wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm especially annoyed by the nerf to Wolf Guard because it makes us explicitly worse than Company Veterans. Pre-nerf, for the same points cost, we lost the Bodyguard rule but gained an extra weapon. Now, it's just... Nada. Nothing. You get nothing.

Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters. Maybe we'll get something related to bodyguard whenever the Codex hits. A straight up 2+ Look Out Sir would be more convenient than the constant bubblewrapping of characters. Not as an universal rule of course but for select units.

Not to mention, it would fix the problem that Logan Grimnar has, where his chariot makes him more fragile than being on foot, because he can't be shielded. It would add some nice synergy, too - He buffs Wolf Guard, but the Wolf Guard protect him as well.

Anyone else concerned about the cut of options in the SM dex? We might easily lose IPs on wolves and IPs/WPs/RPs on bike...

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Just add all additional not-melee weapons to the Bike model
There is enough space to put special weapons and stormbolters
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-216-13949107495278.jpg

Hey, you kit-bashed Dork Angels bikes too!

"Hey, aren't those Ravenwing Bikes?"

"Repurposed for a more deserving army. The Machine Spirits approve."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did you make the mutt-head mudguard yourself or is it off something?

Odin's Ravens
and the head is from the old GW plastic wolves (sold with Goblins, Undead and SW)

 Weazel wrote:

Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters.

Because Wolf Guard act as troop leaders or second in command
it is correct and "fluffy" that they don't have that rule

 kodos wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Well maybe that's an oversight, they are Wolf GUARD after all so it is indeed weird they don't have any means of GUARDING characters.

Because Wolf Guard act as troop leaders or second in command
it is correct and "fluffy" that they don't have that rule

Don't care if it's fluffy. It makes Wolf Guard explicitly worse than their equivalent Space Marine unit, for the same points cost.