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 Weazel wrote:
So the Wolves haven't really been rocking the tournament scene and our W/L ratio is in a slow but steady decline in the dakka results thread...

Anyone with more games under their belt have a good idea what the new SW "meta" is? What has performed well and what is a no-go? Or are we internally balanced but just behind the curve?

In my lists I run:

wolf lord with 2 claws

battle leader on thunderwolf with shield and hammer

wolf priest on bike

rune priest on bike

ulrik the slayer

arjac rockfist

1x12-16 bloodclaws

lukas the trickster

2-3x6 grey hunters

stormwolf (tipycally without meltas)

2-3 razorbacks with twin assault cannons

1x5-6 WG terminators (only with deep strike)

1x5-6 WG on bikes with stormbolters

1x5-6 WG on foot with stormbolters

1x5-6 WG on foot with combi plasmas (once I tried combi meltas)

1-2x5-6 thunderwolves

1-2x5 wulfen

1-2x4-5 long fangs (tipycally with missiles but sometimes also lascannons or plasma cannons, all the same kind of weapon in a unit anyway)


I don't play in tournaments but I still face semi-competitive lists and all these units performed well, I've had good results with them so far. Actually I've done better with SW in 8th edition rather than in 7th as I hated deathstars and they were probably the most competitive way to play the wolves. I haven't tried fenrisian wolves and drop pods, honestly I don't know what to do with these units.

jcd386 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
How do you use Björn efficiently? He's rather expensive and unless you're going into melee to seriously wreck face I don't see him doing enough damage to earn his place. And in melee he is vulnerable... if you are seriously camping midfield to spread that reroll 1's around he becomes better obviously.

I think i would move him up with GH rhinos/razors so he can give them rerolls but still get cover.

I really like mech lists with rhinos, razors, long fangs, and grey hunters with 3 or 4 HQs for powers / rerolls.

This is it. I plan to advance Bjorn with a couple of razorbacks and a squad of Primaris Hellblasters on foot. That is a lot of firepower that can benefit from Bjorn's rerolls while advancing and you can overcharge the Hellblasters fairly safely too. Once you get close to the enemy, you have the option of charging or shooting those rapid fire weapons up close. Bjorn can then either act as your counter-charge element or spearhead your assault. I would add a Rune Priest with Stormcaller to give all those advancing units the benefit of cover.

Technically Bjorn is vulnerable in assault. In practice he hits on a 2+ with rerolls and inflicts a metric ton of damage with Trueclaw. I have seen him take down Knights before. Give him the Warlord trait that gives him 6+ FNP as this stacks with his 5+ Ward of the Primarch making him particularly tough to remove.


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Azuza001 wrote:

So your experience says that using the guard on bikes they should be shooting focused and not melee focused. Sad, as I love the idea of them roaring in on their bikes and smashing their opponents apart but it makes sense. Thanks.

8 shots each at 12" range is just too much dakka to ignore. Also the Stormbolter build compliments their bikes' firepower rather than contradicting it. If they had a way to shoot after withdrawing from combat it might be worth giving them CC equipment but overall I think just putting a Frost sword on the leader for emergencies is probably the best solution.

If you want a good unit to run alongside them then CC Thunderwolves are epic. Their mount comes with extra CC attacks so these guys really want to get into CC. Use both units on a flank to utterly crush an enemy. Thunderwolves work well with a Wolf Priest on bike as they have lots of attacks to benefit from rerolls and 3 wounds each makes it easier for the Priest to heal them. A Priest also mitigates against the -1 to hit from Thunderhammers so this is a good place to put a couple to deal with hard targets.

The actual plan at the moment isnt to use the wolf priest on the bikers but to use the bikers to screen for the wolf priest so it can get close to a target before charging. Then teleport either terminators and charge or drop in skyclaws and charge with the wolf priest while the bikers shoot at a secondary target. At least until I get my hands on some twc. But that won't be for a few weeks.

I know wolf guard bikes can not take 3 weapons but what's stopping jp wolf guard from taking close combat weapon combi and storm shield this is still ok right it reads as that in the book and there FAQs doesn't dis allow it am I missing something cheers

Here is my list for the game last night, remember we are playing power lvl.

Hq -
Wolf priest on bike

Elite -
Wolf guard on bikes - 4 men w/storm bolters & storm shields, 1 leader w/ thunder hammer and storm shield.

Wolf guard in terminator armor - 3 men w/ thunder hammers & storm shields, 1 with assault cannon and power first, 1 leader with thunder hammer and storm shield.

Heavy Support -
Long fangs - 5 fangs with missile launchers, 1 wolf guard pack leader with term armor and cyclone missile launcher / power fist.

Total - 45 points

So played a game with them, yes they are amazing with storm bolters and storm shields. Having the one have a thunder hammer helped a lot when they were charged by some tyrnaid warriors. I definitely will take them again. They wiped out a squad of gaunts, killed off 2 tyrnaid warriors in shooting then finished the last one in close combat, and dropped a squad of genestealers from 15 strong to 8 from over watch and the close combat that happened after. The wolf priest however died a painful death, was charged by genestealers and I rolled horrible for his save (had to make 5 saves and all came up 1's and 2's) so I will have to try him again.

I Set the long fangs up in cover, my first turn (I went second) they killed a hive tyrant, second turn they did some wounds to a carnifex, then became food for a trygon prime but they still performed great.

Finally my wolf guard in term armor went hand to hand with a carnifex and killed it in one turn, then tooknon the trygon and killed it, then spun around and finished off the 8 remaining genestealers that killed the bikes. It was close but a good time.

Next time though I won't go so elite orientated, I miss my 2 10 man Grey hunter lines. I don't like playing with such a small elite force.


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luke666 wrote:
I know wolf guard bikes can not take 3 weapons but what's stopping jp wolf guard from taking close combat weapon combi and storm shield this is still ok right it reads as that in the book and there FAQs doesn't dis allow it am I missing something cheers

It's in the faq.

Page 158 – Wolf Guard, Wargear Options
Replace the first three wargear options with
the following:
‘• Any model may replace its boltgun with a plasma
pistol, storm shield or an item from the Space Wolves
Melee Weapons or Space Wolves Combi-weapons lists; it
may also replace its bolt pistol with a plasma pistol,
storm shield or an item from the Space Wolves Melee
Weapons list.’

So no you can't still do that with jp guard.

Ok am I just looking at the wrong faq because that is not in mine imperial 1 on Gw site can someone post a link I have the arjac at pack thing thunder wolves, charictors wargear etc but nothing to do with wolf guard

Cheers

luke666 wrote:
Ok am I just looking at the wrong faq because that is not in mine imperial 1 on Gw site can someone post a link I have the arjac at pack thing thunder wolves, charictors wargear etc but nothing to do with wolf guard

Cheers

For some reason the GW site hasn't updated to the 1.1 erratas. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/23/updated-faqs-and-boots-on-the-groundgw-homepage-post-2/

Is Logan Grimnar worth taking, either his sleigh-riding version or the regular Termie-armor on foot version? I have the latter, and I was wondering about if he's worth taking at all. He's kind of like Belial in the Dark Angels army, except his buffs apply to all Space Wolves instead of just Wolf Guard or something. He's also a lot of points, and even more if riding the sleigh. Is there a good way to use the Great Wolf?

I would say he is not worth it on the sleigh, since he is over 10 wounds and can just be shot to death.

On foot his re-rolls to hit are wonderful...but that is about it, in my opinion. The morale ignoring ability for wolf guard is pretty terrible, as they rarely fail morale anyway, and since he is in terminator armor, his transportation options are very limited.

If you plan on taking a beat-stick unit in a land raider or flier, he might be an okay choice, but I think Arjac might be a better one with his +1 attack for wolf guard.

Seems like the game has become a Super Heavy brawl again.
Imperial Knights are dominating successful "Space Wolves" lists. They supply too many wounds to be focused on and lay down too much damage to be ignored.

I'm not sure about other Marine Chapters but I'm terrified of Guard and SoB, they lay down so many shots that even 2+ armour fails eventually.
Having one Knight completely reverses that issue.
There has got to be a way of doing it with Pure Space Wolves.

I am not sure but wouldn't long fangs be a good solution? 6 fangs with laser cannons, with a term leader with cyclone missile launcher (or just all missile launchers if your making a list that you want to be adaptable for all on comers) would be able to put out so much damage it should do amazing against heavy targets like a knight. Or instead of the term leader just go with the fangs and put them in a razorback then deploy them during your first turn if your worried about them getting killed before you get a chance to use them. With their ability to reroll without needing a wolf lord around it should not be an issue.

This is all theory from me though, currently I only fight tyrnaids so I don't have heavy units like that to deal with. Just hive tyrants / carnifex / Trygons and missile launchers work great against all 3. Can kill any of them in a single round of shooting with a few wounds left over.

Also sky fangs are cheap and dropping in then assaulting to tie up their tanks for a turn or 2 if your lucky is very effective. Just keep them cheap so losing them isn't a big deal and gives you time to run expensive option like wolf guard on bikes or thunder wolves up the field. Again just theory hammer here.

It takes 20 las cannon shots rerolling 1s to hit to mathematically kill a knight. Or 27 missiles. If you have a WGBL around these numbers go to 17 and 23.

Moving means you need 25% more shots to make up for missed shots.

That's more fire power than most lists will have at long range of the first turn, though even just getting a knight to half wounds is useful.

Sky fangs seem okay...if they get a good way to reroll charges that would be nice, though they can't tie up knights and other big stuff.

Sky Fangs?
Sky Claws or Long Fangs with a Drop Pod?

Sky Claws I reckon. I don't see any viable scenarios where Long Fangs would be assaulting.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Seems like the game has become a Super Heavy brawl again.
Imperial Knights are dominating successful "Space Wolves" lists. They supply too many wounds to be focused on and lay down too much damage to be ignored.

I'm not sure about other Marine Chapters but I'm terrified of Guard and SoB, they lay down so many shots that even 2+ armour fails eventually.
Having one Knight completely reverses that issue.
There has got to be a way of doing it with Pure Space Wolves.

In super competitive environments pure wolves weren't competitive even in 7th, they became mid tiers only with SM psykers or celestine.

And the AM is by far the most competitive army in this edition, it's ok to struggle against them. I think the best way to deal with them is to bring a lot of vehicles, eventually bikes and thunderwolves with several storm shields as AM is extremely good against infantries and just ok against tanks. Long fangs can kill their tanks from distance and plasma scions firepower can be invalidated by storm shields. Razorbacks can suffer plasmas a lot but you should be able to go first and even a single turn of movement plus shooting is helpful for a mobile army.

IMHO pure wolves are now better than before, thanks to the transports mostly. But also terminators, wolf guards of any kind, and scout are improved a lot. Razorbacks and stormwolves are excellent transports and have decent firepower too.

Bjorn can rip Knights apart. He dealt 17 wounds to a Wraithknight in a single round of close combat in my last game. The trick is to protect him. His Character status is useful but he needs bodyguards as a charge can otherwise leave him exposed.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Sky Fangs?
Sky Claws or Long Fangs with a Drop Pod?

Yeah i meant sky claws, lol.

I definitely think mech is the way to go when it comes to space wolves, the issue right now is there isn't much difference between a mech SW list and a SM one, except that the SM one is better and has more options.

The changes to the vehicles have made mech armies pretty strong in 8th but I suspect that will lead to a proliferation of lascannons and melta guns in the tournament scene.

Mech wolves have some advantages as we can pack more plasma into a Hunter squad than Codex units can into a Tac squad. Plus we can chuck in Chainswords and a few power weapons etc for extra punch up close.

True, though I've found that the downside to a hunter squad with 5 plasma shots is the cost is high, and needing 6 dudes makes fitting everything into transports difficult.




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Plus a tac squad with combi plasma and heavy grav do the same shooting damage vs marines as the 6 man 5 plasma shots GH for less points.

Hi all I'm looking to add some space wolves to my converted Primaris marines so I can truly make them Sons of Russ instead of just another army of Primaris marines :p

At the moment i'm running

HQ
Captain in Gravis Armour
2x Lieutenants

Elites
Primaris Ancient
10 Reivers
Redemptor Dreadnought

Troops
2x 5 man Intercessor Squad

Fast attack
3man Inceptor Squad

Heavy support
5 man Hellblaster Squad

so dose anyone have any ideas what I can add to my army to give it some real oomph?

Bjorn works really well with the Hellblasters and Redemptor. March them up the table together with Bjorn just behind the Redemptor giving everyone rerolls. Bjorn cannot be targetted unless he is the closest model since he is a Character.

Up close, Bjorn can destroy almost anything in assault. He cut a Wraithknight in half for me in my last game. Add an extra Troop choice to fill out your Battalion for those +3CPs. Grey Hunters with melta or plasma in an Assault Cannon Razorback are punchy for the points and bring some horde control as well as anti-tank.

I am really not a fan of the Inceptors as I think they are very overpriced, even with the points drop in the new Codex and PDF. 180 points for 6 T5 wounds is too much for my taste.

That's fair enough. Iv just been running with what I got in the dark imperium set and added on a squad of reivers and a redemptor. I find the inceptors aren't to bad, but aren't spectacular either.

I think I'll definatly gives bjorn a go becuse that combo right there seems prity nasty. How would you kit him out?

When you make a plas/melta grey hunter squad do you kit them out with 1 plasma gun, 1 plasma pistol, and combi-plas on the wolf guard?

I would take them that way, yes. 5 plasma shots is really good.

 Orik wrote:

I think I'll definatly gives bjorn a go becuse that combo right there seems prity nasty. How would you kit him out?

I have the old-school metal Bjorn so he has an assault cannon which is pretty good but the Hellfrost is tasty too against large targets. I wouldn't bother with the heavy plasma cannon though. The extra -1 to hit when he moves makes overcharging too risky and you don't really want him standing still. Give him Assault Cannon or Hellfrost and leave the plasma to the Hellblasters where it belongs as they can overcharge for much less risk.

That's fair enough, I'll probably run the assault cannon against infantry heavy armies and the frost cannon against vehicle/monster heavy ones.

Thanks heaps guys. I'll let you know how I go once iv got a few games in. One last thing do you think it's worth trying to squeeze in a iron or rune priest to go with bjorn and co?

Rune priests are good for the cover power and the +1 to hit power, so always a solid choice.

Iron priests seem okay if you have a good number of vehicles, though I am not as big a fan of them as most of the other HQs. I've played a few games with them/techmarines and the 1-3 damage they repair so far hasn't mattered very much so i might not bother with them in the future. .

jcd386 wrote:
Rune priests are good for the cover power and the +1 to hit power, so always a solid choice.

Iron priests seem okay if you have a good number of vehicles, though I am not as big a fan of them as most of the other HQs. I've played a few games with them/techmarines and the 1-3 damage they repair so far hasn't mattered very much so i might not bother with them in the future. .

Haven't actually used my Iron Priest yet, but I feel he's a bit overpriced for what he does. Usually when my vehicles get focused they just pop in one shooting phase so the repairs would never have helped much. Same with a Wolf Priest, usually when my guys get shot up they get shot up pretty badly and the healing is never going to be of much use. A 6+ or even a 5+ FNP bubble for 3" (for vehicles or infantry/cavalry/bikes respectively) would actually help a lot in making them more worthwhile without making them too overpowered in the process.

Iron Priests need some thought if you want to get mileage out of them. It is not actually the number of vehicles you run but which ones and how long it will take to get his points back.

A Rhino costs 70 points and has 10 wounds so each wound is worth 7 points. An IP costs around 90 points (depending on loadout) so he is going to need to patch up 13 wounds on a Rhino to make his points back which will take 6-7 turns. Not really a good return on investment and a Rhino will only last that long if your opponent is not really shooting at it anyway.

Now if you are looking at Land Raiders, or some of our special Dreads like Bjorn (or a relic Leviathan if you play FW). Then suddenly the vehicles are much tougher to wound and each wound is worth 20-30 points. Now our Iron Priest only has to patch-up 3-4 wounds (2 turns worth) to make his points back and anything on top of that is a bonus.

Land Raiders are good as the IP can ride inside until he needs to get out and repair it. Dreads are good as they do not move much faster than infantry so again the IP can normally be in the right place.

jcd386 wrote:
Rune priests are good for the cover power and the +1 to hit power, so always a solid choice.

Iron priests seem okay if you have a good number of vehicles, though I am not as big a fan of them as most of the other HQs. I've played a few games with them/techmarines and the 1-3 damage they repair so far hasn't mattered very much so i might not bother with them in the future. .

Not too many things more satisfying than Jump dropping a Rune Priest on Guard and cutting their BS back a solid point - my opponent opened fire on the Priest and failed to kill him, failed to wound any of the TWC he might have offed.
It was wonderful.

Wolf Priests are overpriced unless you're running TWC and characters on TWC, then they're AMAZING.

One and a half Shield Dreads will justify an Iron Priest against nearly anything - Had an opponent running Chaos drop at least twenty mortal wounds per turn. Shields didn't matter, Iron Priests didn't matter and because both Dreads disappeared on the first turn they barely mattered themselves.

So I've been playing around with my wolves and so far they've won 10 from 10 games, taking out chaos demons; iron hands; eldar; orks; mechanicum....

The list I've been running is 2000 points:

Wolf lord on TW w/SS and wolf claw

Njal in termie armour

3 TW w/ SS and Wolf Claw

3 TW w/ SS and Wolf Claw

3 TW w/ SS and Wolf Claw

5 x grey hunter

5 x grey hunter

5 x grey hunter

6 long fangs (2 rockets, 3 las) ---- will be switching out for a predator

5 x termies 2 w/ SS and tempestus hammers, 3 w/ wolf claws

5 x termies 2 w/ SS and tempestus hammers, 3 w/ wolf claws

The army hits hard and fast. The small grey hunter squads tend to be ignored, letting hem move onto objectives or into good cover.

Njal is a monster. Coming down and hurling a smite and the power that's 2d6 minus movement, that many mortal wounds (name forgotten) really piles on the pain.

The terminators go after the back line and try to disrupt movement pulling enemies back to them, whilst te thunderwolves launch forwards for an early charge. Given toughness 5 and a storm shield they are amazingly durable and tend to rip through opposing units. With the wolf lord near enough they re-roll 1's to hit, whilst the claws let them re-roll to wound. With 2 attacks per rider and 3 for the wolves they make a real mess of things.

The long fangs/predators are there for long range support, trying to crack an opponents heavy armour.