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 Sarigar wrote:
Alaitoc flier detachment.

Yep, that's what I'll be doing.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
Fanctionwide deepstrike stratagems are confirmed on stream just now! Nice!

To be clear, they said that the one that applies to infantry is an infiltration stratagem, which is a lot worse for shooting units than deep strike. The deep strike stratagem is for vehicles (presumably with Fly).

18" range Warp Time for Runes of Battle.

Heck Yeah! deployment shenanigans!

Shining Spears 6 points cheaper.
A 3 Reaper squad costs 81 points.
Avengers are 12 points each (total I think)

Banshee Mask gone back to ignoring overwatch, acrobatic gives them advance and charge and get still the + 3" of charge range. This is surely the best they've ever been.
Reapers -9 points
Shining Spears -6 points
Dire Avengers -5 points
Warp Spiders gain deep strike
Swooping Hawks: -4 points. weapon changed to assault 4, still 24" range.
Scorpions: unspecified points drop
Night Spinners: unspecified points drop
Falcon: -50 points (lol)


Flyers do get the alaitoc -1 to hit.

Wow.

Shining Spears and Reapers definitely did not need these buffs.

DAs may have gone too far.

Infiltrating Banshees may be a thing.

I like these changes, but the point cost reductions seem a bit steep. I hope it won't buff them too much!

Storm Guardians apparently mostly unchanged, honestly having them be gak is tradition at this point

The real question is are Wraithknights cheaper?

If Windriders with catapults are really just 18 points then that's really good. They shoot almost as well as Guardians, are much faster, and are significantly more durable except against multi-damage weapons. I'm worried that the guy just didn't realize they have to pay for twin catapults, though, since what he said implies that shuriken cannons cost 10 points more than twin catapults. If twin catapults only cost 2 (for 12 point cannons as now) then lots of stuff got a lot cheaper. They said that Shining Spears dropped 6 points base, and if they also lost 8 on their twin catapults then they only cost 29 points now.

Read shame all those wraithknights will still continue to gather dust. It's the model that made me start playing eldar. But the changes are really spot on power boosts to an army that needed it.

When they say 'no rules' to ynnari, I'm going to assume that means no craftworld traits, warlord traits or stratagems. It'll probably still be worth doing a spearhead with yvraine sitting with some units of dark reapers, but otherwise it'll be a hard choice of whether you want strength from death or these new rules. Probably still worth it for Wratihguard as well.

Still a chance for Wraithlord improvements as well. I mean, sounds unlikely, but when was the last time Falcons or Howling Banshees got this big a boost? Plus they are in the starting box.

Anyway, an Alatoic brigade seems pretty easy to fill.

2x Spiritseers - 2x45 = 90
6x 5 Rangers - 6x60 = 360
3x 3 Spectres - 3x69 = 207
3x 3 Windriders - 3x54 = 162 or 3x 5 Hawks - 3x65 = 195
3x 3 Dark Reapers - 3x81 = 243

Which is 1062 points with the windriders.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Noticed they managed to wock-comble the wording on Pulsed discharge

I can't actually see anything wrong with the datasheet entry for Pulsed Laser Discharge...I'm pretty tired though

Niiru wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Noticed they managed to wock-comble the wording on Pulsed discharge

I can't actually see anything wrong with the datasheet entry for Pulsed Laser Discharge...I'm pretty tired though

like the Russ rule it omits 'or remains stationary', cue to RAI / RAW about 0" moves and heavy weapons

Dionysodorus wrote:
Anyway, an Alatoic brigade seems pretty easy to fill.

2x Spiritseers - 2x45 = 90
6x 5 Rangers - 6x60 = 360
3x 3 Spectres - 3x69 = 207
3x 3 Windriders - 3x54 = 162 or 3x 5 Hawks - 3x65 = 195
3x 3 Dark Reapers - 3x81 = 243

Which is 1062 points with the windriders.

Interesting. That's still enough room to fit in two squads of 5 D-Scythe Wraithguard in Wave Serpents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Noticed they managed to wock-comble the wording on Pulsed discharge

I can't actually see anything wrong with the datasheet entry for Pulsed Laser Discharge...I'm pretty tired though

like the Russ rule it omits 'or remains stationary', cue to RAI / RAW about 0" moves and heavy weapons

Oh, are people really saying that moving zero inches (ie. remaining stationary) is not the same as moving less than 6"?

I mean this game does have quite a few RAI / RAW conflicts, but this isn't one of them. If you don't move, then you have moved less than 6". You have moved 0". This isn't even a conflict.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Shadow Spectres are the best anti-horde unit. Honestly, they're probably the best anti-anything unit.

Yeah, this is pretty annoying (though granted they have to be within 8" or Guided).

They work just fine without Guide.

Not against hordes they don't. Firing at just regular BS3+ they only expect to kill a little more than 1 Guardsman each. It'd take them 5 turns to make their points back this way, compared to 3 with Guide. That's not great. Because of their weird gun rule they benefit far more than other units from re-rolls. Guide makes them 70% more effective, compared to 33% for regular BS3+ units. Just rerolling ones buffs them by about as much as Guide buffs other units.

Snuh? They get d6 hits at S5 AP-1 when firing at Guardsmen.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Shadow Spectres are the best anti-horde unit. Honestly, they're probably the best anti-anything unit.

Yeah, this is pretty annoying (though granted they have to be within 8" or Guided).

They work just fine without Guide.

Not against hordes they don't. Firing at just regular BS3+ they only expect to kill a little more than 1 Guardsman each. It'd take them 5 turns to make their points back this way, compared to 3 with Guide. That's not great. Because of their weird gun rule they benefit far more than other units from re-rolls. Guide makes them 70% more effective, compared to 33% for regular BS3+ units. Just rerolling ones buffs them by about as much as Guide buffs other units.

Snuh? They get d6 hits at S5 AP-1 when firing at Guardsmen.

Yes, I said this earlier. Sorry, I thought you were disagreeing with me when you chimed in with "They work just fine without Guide" after I said "they have to be within 8" or Guided". Instead I guess you meant "Yeah, they do fine inside 8" without Guide".

All I want to know is, is there a bladestorm strategem for Dire Avengers...

Falcons still don't seem like they have a place. Wave Serpents are still better transports and Fire Prisms are now objectively better tanks (especially if you bring two and save your CP for Linked FiRe)

Dionysodorus wrote:
Anyway, an Alatoic brigade seems pretty easy to fill.

2x Spiritseers - 2x45 = 90
6x 5 Rangers - 6x60 = 360
3x 3 Spectres - 3x69 = 207
3x 3 Windriders - 3x54 = 162 or 3x 5 Hawks - 3x65 = 195
3x 3 Dark Reapers - 3x81 = 243

Which is 1062 points with the windriders.

If you add:

5x Wraithguard with D-Scythes
Wave Serpent (3x shuriken Cannon)

5x Wraithblades with Swords
Wave Serpent (3x shuriken Cannon)

1x Hemlock Wraithfighter.


You can get to a pretty tidy 2000 points list. Which I'm very tempted by, as I've always liked Ranger and Dark Reaper models and units, but they've rarely been worth it in large numbers like this.

You'd probably want to manipulate that so you could get a farseer in there. But it looks like a list with a lot of answers to a lot of things.

I'm pretty new to eldar, but is mechdar viable with the new leaks?

 l0k1 wrote:
I'm pretty new to eldar, but is mechdar viable with the new leaks?

It'll take some time to digest but my initial impression is that it will be viable. Most of our tanks either got discounted or buffed (Wave Serpents were good already).

Pick your favourite units, put them in 4-5 Serpents and have a couple of Falcons or Fire Prisms to back them up. 5 Dire Avengers and a tri-Shuricannon Serpent are roughly 200 points. 3 units like that will give you plenty of mobile fire power plus 3 units of ObjSec Troops for grabbing objectives late in the game. Next up a couple of units of Wraithguard (pick your favourite flavour) in Serpents to crack tough targets at roughly 350 points each (depending on loadout). That takes you to 1300 points so far.

Next you will need a couple of HQs (assuming a Battalion). You could go really cheap with a pair of Warlocks although personally I would prefer to upgrade 1 to a Farseer for some more serious psychic might. That takes us to around 1450. Now you will want a bit of fire support. 2 Fire Prisms will set you back 340 points and will provide some long-ranged punch. That leaves you just over 200 points for a Hemlock which is one of the best aircraft in the game.

Almost any of the craftworld Traits would work with this army. Alaitoc is probably the best as -1 to hit at long range is great protection on a highly mobile army. That Hemlock will be -2 to hit (-3 if you cast Conceal) so will be almost unhittable). Ulthwe is not bad either as it gives you a flat 6+++ against every point of damage you suffer. Iyanden will keep you tanks shooting for longer (although it is pretty weak otherwise). Even Saim Hann would not be bad with all those shurican weapons on the tanks and your Avengers would get +1Ld to boot.

 Karhedron wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
I'm pretty new to eldar, but is mechdar viable with the new leaks?

It'll take some time to digest but my initial impression is that it will be viable. Most of our tanks either got discounted or buffed (Wave Serpents were good already).

Pick your favourite units, put them in 4-5 Serpents and have a couple of Falcons or Fire Prisms to back them up. 5 Dire Avengers and a tri-Shuricannon Serpent are roughly 200 points. 3 units like that will give you plenty of mobile fire power plus 3 units of ObjSec Troops for grabbing objectives late in the game. Next up a couple of units of Wraithguard (pick your favourite flavour) in Serpents to crack tough targets at roughly 350 points each (depending on loadout). That takes you to 1300 points so far.

Next you will need a couple of HQs (assuming a Battalion). You could go really cheap with a pair of Warlocks although personally I would prefer to upgrade 1 to a Farseer for some more serious psychic might. That takes us to around 1450. Now you will want a bit of fire support. 2 Fire Prisms will set you back 340 points and will provide some long-ranged punch. That leaves you just over 200 points for a Hemlock which is one of the best aircraft in the game.

Almost any of the craftworld Traits would work with this army. Alaitoc is probably the best as -1 to hit at long range is great protection on a highly mobile army. That Hemlock will be -2 to hit (-3 if you cast Conceal) so will be almost unhittable). Ulthwe is not bad either as it gives you a flat 6+++ against every point of damage you suffer. Iyanden will keep you tanks shooting for longer (although it is pretty weak otherwise). Even Saim Hann would not be bad with all those shurican weapons on the tanks and your Avengers would get +1Ld to boot.

Think you meant Biel-Tan at the end there

Quicken: friendly unit within 18" moves again

This spell is hella nuts with the new Howling Banshees - 8 + d6 + 8 + d6 + 2d6 + 3 = 43" potential threat range, 33" on average. Given they ignore overwatch, throwing a unit of 10 across the battlefield to engage as many shooting units as possible could be an actual viable strategy against some armies (banshees viable? the shock, the horror )

I wouldn't get too excited about a first turn charge, even without overwatch. Several armies have it and only the absolute best units can do much with it. And, while much improved, banshees are not anything like khorne berserkers or even genestealers. You'll run into some bubblewrap, kill a bit of it, then get shot off the board next turn. Don't get me wrong, it might have some small use, but this won't be the era of the howling banshee.

 Khaine wrote:

Quicken: friendly unit within 18" moves again

This spell is hella nuts with the new Howling Banshees - 8 + d6 + 8 + d6 + 2d6 + 3 = 43" potential threat range, 33" on average. Given they ignore overwatch, throwing a unit of 10 across the battlefield to engage as many shooting units as possible could be an actual viable strategy against some armies (banshees viable? the shock, the horror )

They still need Doom in order not to completely suck vs. anything T4 or higher.

drakerocket wrote:
I wouldn't get too excited about a first turn charge, even without overwatch. Several armies have it and only the absolute best units can do much with it. And, while much improved, banshees are not anything like khorne berserkers or even genestealers. You'll run into some bubblewrap, kill a bit of it, then get shot off the board next turn. Don't get me wrong, it might have some small use, but this won't be the era of the howling banshee.

Good points all. Still, if they can function at all its a victory in my eyes, when was the last time Banshees could successfully cross the table, 4th edition?

Actually, I was thinking more of this:
Wraithblades + Deep strike Stratagem + Quicken.

Also, Banshee Mask is now auto-include for an Autarch Skyrunner. Have him charge first and tie up a units overwatch, then charge in any other unit you want.

-

Quick thought...I don't have my forgeworld book with me but does it still say Wraithseers can't be your warlord? Because if it doesn't, that warlord trait that lets you snipe characters could be pretty solid on the wraithseer. I know I wouldn't mind shooting at an enemy character with a D Cannon....

 Galef wrote:
Actually, I was thinking more of this:
Wraithblades + Deep strike Stratagem + Quicken.

Also, Banshee Mask is now auto-include for an Autarch Skyrunner. Have him charge first and tie up a units overwatch, then charge in any other unit you want.

-

Is the stratagem actually deep strike, or is it infiltrate? Theres a big difference... Can you pick which turn you bring the unit onto the table, or do you set them up at the start of turn one, and so are vulnerable to getting shot if the opponent takes first turn?

Also, if it is infiltrate, you'd have to spend 2CP on it - One for the Blades, and one for a Warlock to be in range to quicken them. And all the opponent would have to do is spend turn 1 murdering the blades at short range, or moving their units to kill the warlock.

@ Niiru

its more to do with GW's slapdash approach to rules templating, of course "moving" 0 is moving less than half, but by flat out stating stationery leaves no wiggle room for gamers who have mistaken game rules for a branch of philosophy

drakerocket wrote:
Quick thought...I don't have my forgeworld book with me but does it still say Wraithseers can't be your warlord? Because if it doesn't, that warlord trait that lets you snipe characters could be pretty solid on the wraithseer. I know I wouldn't mind shooting at an enemy character with a D Cannon....

It doesn't say the Wraithseer can't be your Warlord any more. Guess the problem is you'd then have a warlord with more than 9 wounds.