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ballzonya wrote: Question from the group what's the least amount of models I need to buy to create a venurable dreadnaught with lascannon and missile launcher? I need to buy the deathwatch dreadnaught and a regular dread to get the middle launcher?
The basic dread kit comes with the TLLC/ML arms. He’s not as blinged out as the ven dread, but if you roll him around your bits box he could probably fake it.
I had 2 X Valkyrie gunship rocket pods left over in my bits box from years ago, so used them on the shoulders of my venerable dreads CCW arm in a sort of mech style. It' Actium looks quite cool and believable, and that way I can count it as either arm as long as I make it clear to my opponent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 05:58:31
Gratz on the Xiphon! Remember it's fragile, and you'll need to manage range as well as possible. It alos likes to not be the only big threat on the board.
As for Hellblasters, well, they are so flexible! 170pts gives you a DS squad that can massacre elites, damage shield captains, land inside 12" to negate -1 shenanigans, headhunt characters, or pile on AT pressure. I don't know why I'd ever run a DW list without at least one Hellblaster MSU in it.
grouchoben wrote: Gratz on the Xiphon! Remember it's fragile, and you'll need to manage range as well as possible. It alos likes to not be the only big threat on the board.
As for Hellblasters, well, they are so flexible! 170pts gives you a DS squad that can massacre elites, damage shield captains, land inside 12" to negate -1 shenanigans, headhunt characters, or pile on AT pressure. I don't know why I'd ever run a DW list without at least one Hellblaster MSU in it.
You make a strong case there. And is a MSU the way to go with them rather than mix in with kill teams, Or even balls out 10 of them to let the opponent live in fear? I do like limiting the investment to 170 points.
I started with them in fortis teams, and was unimpressed tbh. You're talking 270pts, when 340 doubles the amount of plasma you get, and you were buying them for that sweet plasma profile right? I also have low drops, so I can afford to drop 2 MSUs of Hellblasters in DS, probably alongside a dread for a spearhead, in my lists.
Hellblasters made a big splash in early 8th until people worked out that you just have to alpha them, outside of range, or at least out of rapid fire. But DWHBs reinvigorate them in a big way because they can't ve alpha'd and they always get to shoot in rapid fire... DS and native reroll 1s to wound is a huge improvement on the unit, and DS really suits their weapon (RF 30") as it means bubble wrap has to be deep as hell to prevent them taking something out, they can avoid auspex array, they can normally drop into cover no problem. I for one think they are top tier now, but somehow haven't really caught on yet.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/11 13:25:11
I have a unit of 10 that I DS along with a 10 man unit of Vets carrying Stormbolters and a reroll character (Captain or Master depending on the matchup). Only one game in against Crons so far, but they impressed me. The Hellblasters dropped a monolith on the DS, and the Vets put out 36 wounds that had to be saved against a C'tan that my Aggressors cleared the screen away from. Taking two units of 5 wouldn't net me anything that I can't do by combat-squads so I just take them that way and enjoy the flexibility of deployment.
I still think plasma inceptors are a better unit than the hellblasters. More shots, native deepstrike and fly. Both units strike me as glass cannons so if they are going to get shot off the board after they land might as well do as much damage as possible...
Both are pretty good I agree, I have 6 Inceptors too.
Only a 14 point difference between 6 Inceptors or 10 Hellblasters. Hellblasters get 20 shots with the Inceptors getting 12-36 with an average of 24. Shot quality is similar with Hellblasters having Ap-4 vs Inceptors Ap-3; which is usually not a big deal. Now, one major difference is in durability. Hellblasters have 20 T4 wounds vs 12 T5 wounds. Hellblasters take a CP to DS. For me, the big thing that makes me choose the Hellblasters is the reliability and durability for a little cheaper vs the chance for more damage. Both of them I support with rerolls.
All in all, I am trying to fit more anti-tank into my army, especially since my local meta has 2 IK players and a bunch of Guard. So I am playing with putting all 15 of my Hellblasters into Intercessor squads to give me anti-tank turn 1, and then DSing plasma inceptors for even more. I am loving everything about DW right now.
bananathug wrote: I still think plasma inceptors are a better unit than the hellblasters. More shots, native deepstrike and fly. Both units strike me as glass cannons so if they are going to get shot off the board after they land might as well do as much damage as possible...
I thought the same, but the utility of a 5 hellblaster kill team versus the 3-6 man inceptor kill teams is pretty far apart. The inceptors DS for free and have a higher range of fire, but rarely get a second shot off. The Fortis kill team can stay for a couple turns, bleeding away 2W intercessors to stay functional, can DS for 1 CP and have the range to midrange and even some backfield shooters. I dropped all my inceptors for 2 of these kill teams and haven't looked back since.
The inceptors are decent and they are very, very good in DA lists. But the DW Fortis kill team with hellblasters is just so much better point for point.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
Absolutely agree with the consensus here: In DW, Hellblasters beat out inceptors. Damage output is basically the same, point for point, but inceptors a) get hot so easily, due to the number of shots per model and b) fold to a light breeze. Body count is king when it comes to mitigating damage, and hellblasters win in that department very easily.
bananathug wrote: I still think plasma inceptors are a better unit than the hellblasters. More shots, native deepstrike and fly. Both units strike me as glass cannons so if they are going to get shot off the board after they land might as well do as much damage as possible...
I thought the same, but the utility of a 5 hellblaster kill team versus the 3-6 man inceptor kill teams is pretty far apart. The inceptors DS for free and have a higher range of fire, but rarely get a second shot off. The Fortis kill team can stay for a couple turns, bleeding away 2W intercessors to stay functional, can DS for 1 CP and have the range to midrange and even some backfield shooters. I dropped all my inceptors for 2 of these kill teams and haven't looked back since.
The inceptors are decent and they are very, very good in DA lists. But the DW Fortis kill team with hellblasters is just so much better point for point.
If you're going to DS them in a Kill Team, it seems well worth it to upgrade one Hellblaster to an Inceptor in my experience.
bananathug wrote: I still think plasma inceptors are a better unit than the hellblasters. More shots, native deepstrike and fly. Both units strike me as glass cannons so if they are going to get shot off the board after they land might as well do as much damage as possible...
I thought the same, but the utility of a 5 hellblaster kill team versus the 3-6 man inceptor kill teams is pretty far apart. The inceptors DS for free and have a higher range of fire, but rarely get a second shot off. The Fortis kill team can stay for a couple turns, bleeding away 2W intercessors to stay functional, can DS for 1 CP and have the range to midrange and even some backfield shooters. I dropped all my inceptors for 2 of these kill teams and haven't looked back since.
The inceptors are decent and they are very, very good in DA lists. But the DW Fortis kill team with hellblasters is just so much better point for point.
If you're going to DS them in a Kill Team, it seems well worth it to upgrade one Hellblaster to an Inceptor in my experience.
Gotta second this. Even if you don't upgrade them to have plasma they would still have some decent dakka and provide the CRUCIAL ability to not get tied up in combat.
Yes if we are talking in a Kill Team and Deep Striking them I typically will go 5 Bolt rifles, 4 Plasma Incinerators, and 1 Plasma Inceptor. I use up my Deep Strike on better Alpha Strike units generally though. 10 Hellblasters, 10 Vets, Leviathan, etc.
Got some games coming up in a couple of weeks, my first with dw.
I'm going to be up against a good player who is fielding space wolves. He's heavy on wolfen and like wolves with thunder hammers.
Since he's rocking storm shields and 5+++ I'm wondering what's going to work well against them. I'm thinking just weight of sia bolter fire is my best bet - any tips from anyone?
If they're playing nothing but Invul saves and volume of fire is your only real friend, nothing pumps it out like Aggressors. Keep them near a Watch Master and pop the +1 Wnd strategem and you'll get the job done.
Also Hellfire shells on anything you can't hurt their save. Especially Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cavalry. Aggressors in Intercessor squads will put the fear of the Watch in him.
If I go with a hellblaster squad and I'm not trying to fill a spearhead, then 10 hellblasters is the optimum choice. I take the beacon just for this unit: drop and fry something with 20 plasma with +1 to wound, then redeploy if needed (eg out of CC, into rapid fire of next target, etc.). Inceptors are okay. I'd just rather have 2 hellblasters.
Venerable Dreadnought
* Twin lascannon, CCW w. Storm Bolter
* All the toops get combat squadded into units of 3x Intercessor 2x hellblaster. I feel that this gives a lot of dispersed firepower behind a decent number of ablative wounds, and plenty of flexibility for going after the mission.
* Chaplain dread goes into Teleportarium
* Ven dreads for ranged AT. The CCW on one of them is for variety & counter-assault.
Venerable Dreadnought
* Twin lascannon, CCW w. Storm Bolter
* All the toops get combat squadded into units of 3x Intercessor 2x hellblaster. I feel that this gives a lot of dispersed firepower behind a decent number of ablative wounds, and plenty of flexibility for going after the mission.
* Chaplain dread goes into Teleportarium
* Ven dreads for ranged AT. The CCW on one of them is for variety & counter-assault.
Whaddayareckon?
I wouldn't bother combat squadding. The intercessors perform better when you have all five in a single squad to soak up incoming fire.
Ven Dreads are good, but I think you'll have trouble finding targets for the third dread. Maybe swap him for a contemptor with a melee loadout? Then you'd have two dreadnoughts int eh back and two carving up things in the front line.
Venerable Dreadnought
* Twin lascannon, CCW w. Storm Bolter
* All the toops get combat squadded into units of 3x Intercessor 2x hellblaster. I feel that this gives a lot of dispersed firepower behind a decent number of ablative wounds, and plenty of flexibility for going after the mission.
* Chaplain dread goes into Teleportarium
* Ven dreads for ranged AT. The CCW on one of them is for variety & counter-assault.
Whaddayareckon?
I wouldn't bother combat squadding. The intercessors perform better when you have all five in a single squad to soak up incoming fire.
Ven Dreads are good, but I think you'll have trouble finding targets for the third dread. Maybe swap him for a contemptor with a melee loadout? Then you'd have two dreadnoughts int eh back and two carving up things in the front line.
Lotta knights out there..
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Plus when you have all the Hellblasters in one squad you get better use of the wounding Strategems.
That is true.. I suppose I've got the flexibility depending on the game set-up to decide on a case by case basis, but I think I'd want at least a few 5-man squads for objective camping.
LunarSol wrote:If you're going to take 3 HQ and 3 elites you might as well split off into another detachment to get another CP.
I played a 2k game with about 1000pts of Deathwatch. I had
2 Deathwatch smash captains
3 squads of 7 vets plus a bike, a terminator and a vanguard vet. I had 3 storm shields, 8 storm bolters, twin linked bolter, as many chainswords as I could take. This gave the squad a 3++ if needed (had to fail 3 of them before it went away. I had a 2+ if the gun had no ap or when I was in cover against ap -1.
This squad was very survivable. I lost 9/10 from one unit and then 2/10 from the other two units over the course of the entire game.
I took blood angel smash captains and ad mech Dunecrawlers to deal with armor and round out the list. I suppose the ad mech detachment could turn into 3 twin lascannon Razorbacks and a Watch Master if you wanted a more pure army. The BA smash captains are kind of irreplaceable to deal with Castellans in the enemy backfield.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Diving in late, so if it's been answered- just throw the copy/paste or quote at me...
But has anyone tried using an All-Primaris force of Deathwatch? Around 1500 points?
If so, what were your key take-aways from that, and what would you recommend?
I have done a few 1500 games with my deathwatch. I ran pure Primaris other than characters. My entire army was three characters and 6 or 7 killteams of 5 inters, 2 hellblasters and like two teams with 5 inters, 1 aggresor, 1 hellblaster. It worked pretty darn well and won all my games, but none of them were competitive games against guard or dark eldar for example. They were games against other marines and Nids. I had a lot of wounds on the board all of which possessed very solid shooting power backed up by decent melee HQs. What really shown through was the raw durability of the army when not against D2 weapons. Like personally I'd auto-lose to Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard, but against other mid tier set ups it was a fun and effective way to go. Oh and actually beating something in melee (other marines) was a great time.
I have done a few 1500 games with my deathwatch. I ran pure Primaris other than characters. My entire army was three characters and 6 or 7 killteams of 5 inters, 2 hellblasters and like two teams with 5 inters, 1 aggresor, 1 hellblaster. It worked pretty darn well and won all my games, but none of them were competitive games against guard or dark eldar for example. They were games against other marines and Nids. I had a lot of wounds on the board all of which possessed very solid shooting power backed up by decent melee HQs. What really shown through was the raw durability of the army when not against D2 weapons. Like personally I'd auto-lose to Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard, but against other mid tier set ups it was a fun and effective way to go. Oh and actually beating something in melee (other marines) was a great time.
Cool, mind if I kick you a list in PM's in a bit, and you can let me know what you think of it? Don't wanna clutter up the forum.
I have done a few 1500 games with my deathwatch. I ran pure Primaris other than characters. My entire army was three characters and 6 or 7 killteams of 5 inters, 2 hellblasters and like two teams with 5 inters, 1 aggresor, 1 hellblaster. It worked pretty darn well and won all my games, but none of them were competitive games against guard or dark eldar for example. They were games against other marines and Nids. I had a lot of wounds on the board all of which possessed very solid shooting power backed up by decent melee HQs. What really shown through was the raw durability of the army when not against D2 weapons. Like personally I'd auto-lose to Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard, but against other mid tier set ups it was a fun and effective way to go. Oh and actually beating something in melee (other marines) was a great time.
Cool, mind if I kick you a list in PM's in a bit, and you can let me know what you think of it? Don't wanna clutter up the forum.
Sure I'd be happy to give an opinion, but I am no tournament winning god. I think it would be fine to post your list here because that is kinda what the topic is for.
Has anyone noticed that deathwatch terminators are 31 points base, but BA and SM post CA 2017 are 26 points? I couldn't give a change in the errata, or an I missing something obvious?
cougarmech wrote: Has anyone noticed that deathwatch terminators are 31 points base, but BA and SM post CA 2017 are 26 points? I couldn't give a change in the errata, or an I missing something obvious?
It's likely because they have better weapon options and the unflinching special rule. Not worth the difference, I'm, though.
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