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It's really only because of the Unflinching rule. You could knock a few points off them in Chapter Approved hopefully.

Thinking of running a 10 man vet squad in a corvus for my force, 10 dudes 2 frag cannons everyone else with storm bolter and chain sword with 3 storm shields. Either that or split them into 2 X 5 man teams with 1 cannon each?

Yep, that's a great profile for a kill team, Rogerio. I'm also partial to all with SBs, and one SS, for a relatively cheap squad that can just hose infantry. Two of those with a watchmaster & the right mission can expect to kill 28 boyz or cultists within 12". It's legit.

My more fun list uses three 10 Man Killteans. One Terminator with the Storm Bolter and Power Sword, 5 Vets with Storm Bolters, 3 Frag Cannon dudes, and lastly a Chainsword/SS Vanguard dude.

They die like flies without cover but the amount of mayhem they cause is pretty cool. I'm hoping Space Wolves will provide us with some tools.

I dropped a 10 man unit with all SB's and did 37 or 39, I don't remember, wounds to an Ascendant C'tan with Hellfire Shells and a Watch Master. Never leaving home without it again.

Also in regards to a 1500 pt Primaris Force most of my Deathwatch are Primaris. At 2k I run 10 vets, Watch Master, and Jump Pack Librarian and everything else is Primaris. The biggest take away is that Vehicles mess with you hard. Everything else is manageable but you need 20-30 Hellblasters at 2k to be able to hold your own against vehicles or else ally in. I am considering a Dark Angel Spearhead for some Devastator Squads, although if you wanted to be purist you could get away with Vet Squads and Missile Launchers/Frag Cannons with Stalker Pattern Bolters. That won't do against any vehicle spam list though. Going FW and adding in various Dreads and tanks can do it as well if you are so inclined but AT firepower is the biggest weakness I see with the army as a whole, even more so Primaris only.

What are our best Primaris army anti-vehicle?
Currently I'm looking at:
-Chaplain Dread w lascannons (also +1 damage warlord trait) for hiding and sniping.
-Lazerbacks for relatively cheap and durable lascannons
-Laser Vindicator. Bascially a slightly tougher laspred

How far will support antitank go to suppliment our otherwise limited dedicated antitank? Aux grenadelaunchers, mortal-wound bolter shells, and +1 to wound on various bolter killteams seems like they can at least do a little work through weight of numbers?

Laser Vindicators are good with full rerolls from the Watch Master. Wish we had an option for the Lt. so that it would go a little easier.

Lascannon Tarantulas would be a cheap add-on for a Fast Attack slot, and once again they do hit more often with a Watch Master nearby (helping make them better) but they're too expensive for just two Lascannons.

We were just discussing this a few posts up. Leviathans and Xiphons and Venator Sicarians from Forgeworld, and Hellblasters from Primaris DW, deepstriking. I think that we're actually well placed for AT with these units. For example, our Xiphons can be buffed with +1 to wound with the doctrines - that's quite rare for imperial factions (normally a chaos thing), so with a bubble, your xiphon will be hitting a Riptide on a 2 rerolling 1s, and wounding on a 2. Nice.

The biggest thing I have run into is not having a good answer for a Knight List for example. 5 Knights just overwhelms my anti-tank and I am struggling to try and win the objective when they are actually faster than me also. I'm not worried about a guard Leman Russ Spam list, but Knights are where I struggle in my own games. It doesn't help that there are 2 Knight players in my local meta.

I think bringing your own knight Castellan is another option, since it's very likely to kill more points worth of knights than it takes to kill it (since it always gets the 3++ but your targets can't all have it). Granted that's not a deathwatch unit.

DW smash captains are also quite good vs knights, though they don't have the crazy mobility of BA or a way to avoid overwatch.

Mass shots also isn't terrible against knights in a pinch. 10 storm bolters with the +1 to wound strat and a nearby watch master does about 7 wounds to a 3+/4++ or 5++ knight with the -1AP ammo. Not ideal, but it's about the same damage of 6-7 unbuffed BS3+ las cannons vs a 5++ knight, so not something to ignore either.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Diving in late, so if it's been answered- just throw the copy/paste or quote at me...

But has anyone tried using an All-Primaris force of Deathwatch? Around 1500 points?

If so, what were your key take-aways from that, and what would you recommend?

I have - going so far that I had a 2000 point list of all primaris infantyr models at one point. My takeaways:

1) Inceptors. Inceptors got hurt bad by the turn 1 deep strike nerf and the plasma version really needs the Dark Angels strategem to still get work done. Hellblaster Kill teams do much more work and are more durable

2) Agressors (flame): They struggle in kill teams, being the only melee-capable models in a fortis kill team means they rarely get to do their best. They still have the 8" range problem in that anyone deepstriking you doesn't have to fear your auto-hitting overwatch.

3) Agressors (Bolter): Pretty good. The sheer amount of dice put out means that they can give a mixed fortis kill team good protection in overwatch and dent incoming hordes. Make for a solid defensive model.

4) Intercessors: Fantastic in Deathwatch with standard bolt rifles. You start at -1 AP and can go to -3 AP as needed. You have that extra long 30" range to start, so you threaten 36" and can rapid fire out to 18" as needed. Damage output still isn't great, but putting a few wounds on any target within 36" can help take down the more resilent foes after the hellblasters shoot. The Stalker pattern rifles are useless with most SIA and I'm not crazy about Auto Bolt Rifles in the first place, so go pure standard.

5) Redemptor Dreadnought: An anti-horde dreadnought. I like it for the ability to deepstrike the bastard right in front a massive mob of something and dig in, but do be aware that you are kind of betting 200 points of your list on the hope that the enemy will bring 200 points of Str3 hordes. Still, it can eat a light tank in a lucky round of melee so it's not a total loss. I field one opposite a contemptor now in days. The contemptor nails the bigger, tougher target, while the redemptor is a big ol' roadblock that prevents the enemy from manuvering without taking a bunch of dice to the face.

6) Reivers. Man - we all love the look, but these guys struggle in 40k. The grapnel launcher can help you get a less than 9" charge via elevated terrain, but once they get there it's a bunch of AP0 chainsword attacks. Ap 0. On a 20 point model. *sigh* On the plus side, they are pretty good in kill team. You almost never get to use a shock grenade but when you do it's likely to make someone tilt.

7) Hellblasters. Called the best Space Marine model for a reason. It's a 30 inch plasma gun. In deathwatch - it's 5 30 inch plasma guns with 5 expendable bolter carriers to protect them. I carry 2 5xhellblaster 5x intercessor squads and am never disappointed at the carnage they can wreck on enemy vehicles, dreadnoughts and other primaris. Pair with a (relatively) cheap DeathWatch Captain for the rerolls 1s and you can rip huge chunks out of the opposing force long before they can close.

8) Repulsor. If you have 300 points to spare. Do you have 300 points to spare? If you do, fill it with something that won't attract ALL THE FIRE from across the board. Worse - most FOrtis kill teams won't fit inside because of the gravis armor.

Characters:

9) Primaris Watch Captain: Good for your warlord as the stat boost keeps him more survivable. The only hitch is that we can't take the DI one, which is weird.

10) Primaris Librarian: I want to advocate for him because he looks so much better than the oldmarine version, but you are paying point and still getting model that will die to dedicated shooting. My oldmarine librarian can at least hide behind my primaris intercessors.

11) Primaris Chaplain: Who loves an extra wound? This guy! Alas, it's still a melee centric model in a non-melee faction. I deploy one because I'm stubborn, but I don't recommend them.

12) Primaris Apothecary : The only apothecary option. Worth taking one just to keep bringing hellblasters back in a pinch, but bear in mind you need to reseruct 4 other priamris models to make the points worth it.

Primaris are a powerful asset - especially the 100pt 5 man intercessor kill team and the 270pt hellblaster kill teams. I wield 2 battalions with a total of 4 5man intercessor kill teams and 2 hellblaster fortis kill team as my basic building blocks for any list. It starts me with 13 CP (enough to waste on teleportarium) and gives me all the building blocks to both hurt enemy armor and control the board.

Out of interest, what other heavy support option are people taking to get access to a Leviathan? The options seem to be Hellblasters and Land raiders... or maybe some other thing from FW I guess.

For me straight up Hellblasters. I run 1 10-man and am considering a 2nd, although a Leviathan is something I am considering too. I actually ran the short ranged knight with my DW last game. I was impressed by it even though it was against Necrons which was the worst possible matchup for it (The one with the flamer and the Harpoon). I tabled the Necron player turn 3 and it never missed the harpoon, it just had to shoot non-vehicles because of Quantum Shielding (Or whatever it's called).

I ran the math on Vanguard Vets vs Hellblasters, and even without getting rid of the invuln the Hellblasters aren't very far behind the VV (like 3 wounds). I'm thinking about trying out a big unit with 3 TH and 3 HTH to see how they are in practice with a Chaplain as more Anti-tank

Cool. I can see deep striking hellblasters working pretty well. Not exactly a cheap unit though - and that’s a lot of stuff to deep strike.

Right now I DS 10 Vets and 10 Hellblasters. Sometimes with the Watchmaster depending on the opponent. Hits like a frickin truck. I am considering the second unit of Hellblasters or a Leviathan as a 3rd drop instead of the Watchmaster.

 ChargerIIC wrote:


I have - going so far that I had a 2000 point list of all primaris infantyr models at one point. My takeaways:

1) Inceptors. Inceptors got hurt bad by the turn 1 deep strike nerf and the plasma version really needs the Dark Angels strategem to still get work done. Hellblaster Kill teams do much more work and are more durable

Taken alone, totally agreed. As part of a Fortis Kill Team? They bring value to a Hellblaster filled Kill Team by removing one of the normally biggest issues with Hellblasters - getting tied down in combat. Throwing 2 Plasma Inceptors into an Intercessor squad saves a boatload of points and fires on average around the same number of shots at 18'' as the more common 5 Intercessor, 4 Hellblaster, 1 bolt Inceptor unit.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
2) Agressors (flame): They struggle in kill teams, being the only melee-capable models in a fortis kill team means they rarely get to do their best. They still have the 8" range problem in that anyone deepstriking you doesn't have to fear your auto-hitting overwatch.

100% agreed. Flamer Aggressors carry the same problems to a Deathwatch army. Still not worth running (sadly).

 ChargerIIC wrote:
3) Agressors (Bolter): Pretty good. The sheer amount of dice put out means that they can give a mixed fortis kill team good protection in overwatch and dent incoming hordes. Make for a solid defensive model.

Agreed here, but with one caveat that I want to reference in your next point...

 ChargerIIC wrote:
4) Intercessors: Fantastic in Deathwatch with standard bolt rifles. You start at -1 AP and can go to -3 AP as needed. You have that extra long 30" range to start, so you threaten 36" and can rapid fire out to 18" as needed. Damage output still isn't great, but putting a few wounds on any target within 36" can help take down the more resilent foes after the hellblasters shoot. The Stalker pattern rifles are useless with most SIA and I'm not crazy about Auto Bolt Rifles in the first place, so go pure standard.

The auto bolt rifle is absolutely amazing with an Aggressor in the squad. It gives you a pretty decently resilient dakka platform that is highly mobile without any penalty to firing for advancing. This means you have two shots at 30'' AP -1 (which is better than the single shot rifles bring), AP -2 at 18'' (just like a bolt rifle, but you can advance to get into this range easier). You give up the edge cases, like 15'' double tap Hellfire at AP -1 (made up for by having double hellfire outside of 15''), or double tap Vengeance at AP-3 within 12'' (good luck getting into this range without advancing). The extra mobility to get those Aggressors into range more than makes up for those issues in many cases. I like the look of auto bolt rifles on normal codex marines even if they aren't ideal, but for DW I can't sing their praises enough in Fortis kill teams when the dice start flying. That's all thanks to SIA.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
5) Redemptor Dreadnought: An anti-horde dreadnought. I like it for the ability to deepstrike the bastard right in front a massive mob of something and dig in, but do be aware that you are kind of betting 200 points of your list on the hope that the enemy will bring 200 points of Str3 hordes. Still, it can eat a light tank in a lucky round of melee so it's not a total loss. I field one opposite a contemptor now in days. The contemptor nails the bigger, tougher target, while the redemptor is a big ol' roadblock that prevents the enemy from manuvering without taking a bunch of dice to the face.

Agreed here. It is definitely not the most competitive Dreadnought option, but it's serviceable - it just brings tools to clear hordes when you probably already have that somewhere else for cheaper that won't attract as much focused attention early on.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
6) Reivers. Man - we all love the look, but these guys struggle in 40k. The grapnel launcher can help you get a less than 9" charge via elevated terrain, but once they get there it's a bunch of AP0 chainsword attacks. Ap 0. On a 20 point model. *sigh* On the plus side, they are pretty good in kill team. You almost never get to use a shock grenade but when you do it's likely to make someone tilt.

Exactly right. Adding one into a Fortis Kill Team adds some cool special rules that won't come up often, but when they do, they'll make their presence known.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
7) Hellblasters. Called the best Space Marine model for a reason. It's a 30 inch plasma gun. In deathwatch - it's 5 30 inch plasma guns with 5 expendable bolter carriers to protect them. I carry 2 5xhellblaster 5x intercessor squads and am never disappointed at the carnage they can wreck on enemy vehicles, dreadnoughts and other primaris. Pair with a (relatively) cheap DeathWatch Captain for the rerolls 1s and you can rip huge chunks out of the opposing force long before they can close.

Also exactly right. This is the best platform to throw the bolt rifle into on your Intercessors. Consider throwing in an Inceptor to protect them from one of the biggest threats that Hellblasters have faced since hitting the table - being silenced when a Wave Serpent flies into them.

These guys are also an amazing unit to drop a doctrine onto.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
8) Repulsor. If you have 300 points to spare. Do you have 300 points to spare? If you do, fill it with something that won't attract ALL THE FIRE from across the board. Worse - most FOrtis kill teams won't fit inside because of the gravis armor.

Not only will you need to make cuts to fit a Fortis Kill team inside if it includes an Aggressors, but Inceptors can't even step into it so you're limited there as well. Wish it were cheaper, the ability to transport being such a high premium is kind of a pain. Good source of AT, though, and is relatively durable if you have other big threats to take the heat off of it. Fly gives it unique movement abilities so it can't be bogged down in combat and can hide behind some massive terrain then fly right over to drop a unit off somewhere.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Characters:

9) Primaris Watch Captain: Good for your warlord as the stat boost keeps him more survivable. The only hitch is that we can't take the DI one, which is weird.

Yeah, though the Gravis one is super weird in general with his wargear being so utterly contradictory.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
10) Primaris Librarian: I want to advocate for him because he looks so much better than the oldmarine version, but you are paying point and still getting model that will die to dedicated shooting. My oldmarine librarian can at least hide behind my primaris intercessors.

All characters die to dedicated shooting - use the character rule to keep him protected just like you would any other foot Lib. Librarius is a serviceable discipline, and you'll want some deny and psychic fortress protection since you don't want your precious 20 point troops eating smites all game.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
11) Primaris Chaplain: Who loves an extra wound? This guy! Alas, it's still a melee centric model in a non-melee faction. I deploy one because I'm stubborn, but I don't recommend them.

Poor guy has a pretty weak aura - it's a pity. Could use this model to kitbash a cool looking Libby though!

 ChargerIIC wrote:
12) Primaris Apothecary : The only apothecary option. Worth taking one just to keep bringing hellblasters back in a pinch, but bear in mind you need to reseruct 4 other priamris models to make the points worth it.

That last point is the real kicker - just bring 4 other Primaris models in his place lol

That guy should honestly give a FNP aura. Marines are all about their support auras - apothecaries (and techmarines) shouldn't be left out of this!

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Primaris are a powerful asset - especially the 100pt 5 man intercessor kill team and the 270pt hellblaster kill teams. I wield 2 battalions with a total of 4 5man intercessor kill teams and 2 hellblaster fortis kill team as my basic building blocks for any list. It starts me with 13 CP (enough to waste on teleportarium) and gives me all the building blocks to both hurt enemy armor and control the board.

I've run a few different types of kill teams with mixed Primaris and have not regretted any of them. Lately I've been swarming the board with ultra mobile 6 man squads made of up 5 auto bolt rifle Intercessors and an Aggressor. With clever model placement, you can keep the slightly slower Aggressor in coherency so you end up with a unit that can move 7-12" and bust out a ton of reliable SIA shooting.

I love everything you said above. I am struggling right now to justify the Auto Bolt Rifles though. I usually deploy my Fortis Killteams forward, and because of that it is usually pretty easy to get into the 18" rapid fire range for Kraken Rounds, and that also matches the range of the Inceptors and Aggressors. The added AP is so strong in this case that I have found myself dropping the Auto Bolt Rifle in favor of the cheaper Bolt Rifle. I think if it was the same cost I would be more inclined to take the Autos, but at an extra 2 ppm I actually feel I am hurting myself in some pretty important situations. Also... 12" RF is pretty easy to get into in my meta for the delicious ap-3 bolter fire.

I am on team bolt rifle for this one. The auto bolt rifle costs more all the while being a sidegrade under the best circumstances and outright worst in most. I can't stress enough how important the base -1 and extra range on the rifle is when used with the overall best round - Hellfire. If auto bolt rifles were the same points as a bolt rifle MAYBE they would be worth it sometimes, but when they cost more for less it's not worth it.

 Captain Garius wrote:
I love everything you said above. I am struggling right now to justify the Auto Bolt Rifles though. I usually deploy my Fortis Killteams forward, and because of that it is usually pretty easy to get into the 18" rapid fire range for Kraken Rounds, and that also matches the range of the Inceptors and Aggressors. The added AP is so strong in this case that I have found myself dropping the Auto Bolt Rifle in favor of the cheaper Bolt Rifle. I think if it was the same cost I would be more inclined to take the Autos, but at an extra 2 ppm I actually feel I am hurting myself in some pretty important situations. Also... 12" RF is pretty easy to get into in my meta for the delicious ap-3 bolter fire.

It's also 1 point extra instead of 2. Auto bolt rifles are 2 points, but bolt rifles are 1 point already so it isn't a huge upgrade. And that's the thing, bud, specifically regarding that immediate need to get within 18'', there is no added AP by taking bolt rifles over auto bolt rifles until you reach 12''.

A Kraken round bolt rifle is 2 shots at 18'', str 4, ap -2, 1 damage

A Vengeance round auto bolt rifle is 2 shots at 18'', str 4, ap -2, 1 damage

I'm just a huge fan because of the mobility from the Aggressors synergizes so well for a unit I want clearing screens and rushing to cover often, which comes up way more in my local meta. If you're seeing a ton of success by getting within 12'' quickly and never need to advance for it, then bolt rifles are definitely a good way to go for you. I think they're honestly pretty balanced all things considered.

Stalkers need love, though :(

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I am on team bolt rifle for this one. The auto bolt rifle costs more all the while being a sidegrade under the best circumstances and outright worst in most. I can't stress enough how important the base -1 and extra range on the rifle is when used with the overall best round - Hellfire. If auto bolt rifles were the same points as a bolt rifle MAYBE they would be worth it sometimes, but when they cost more for less it's not worth it.

They're actually mathematically better in every circumstances over 15'', and their mobility means they're outside the deathzone of rapid fire plasma in order to bring their entire damage potential online.

And hellfire isn't the overall best round - the round that gives you two shots is the overall best round for bolt rifles, which means you'll be firing Kraken more often than Hellfire by necessity. In all other cases, like for auto bolters, you pick the round that's more powerful against the targets you're facing. 1 point is worth making your Aggressors move up the board more than just 5'' at a time, I feel.

And in games, I've never once felt I wish I had an extra AP on any of my screen clearing units, horde mulching units. However, I have often felt I wish I could move further, to make it to cover, to ensure I'm protected from smites, or to help screen. Extra movement has always been valuable - extra AP on a handful of shots has never been so good that I can easily land one way or the other on that.

Bolt rifles are great, no doubt about it - but I don't see the draw in adding Aggressors to a bolt rifle squad. Better to throw them alongside Hellblasters I think, where they synergize better. For what I use Aggressors for (it's a boatload of str 4 shooting, so mulch cheap horde infantry), the auto bolter fits their role so much better.

Lemondish wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I am on team bolt rifle for this one. The auto bolt rifle costs more all the while being a sidegrade under the best circumstances and outright worst in most. I can't stress enough how important the base -1 and extra range on the rifle is when used with the overall best round - Hellfire. If auto bolt rifles were the same points as a bolt rifle MAYBE they would be worth it sometimes, but when they cost more for less it's not worth it.

They're actually mathematically better in every circumstances over 15'', and their mobility means they're outside the deathzone of rapid fire plasma in order to bring their entire damage potential online.

And hellfire isn't the overall best round - the round that gives you two shots is the overall best round for bolt rifles, which means you'll be firing Kraken more often than Hellfire by necessity. In all other cases, like for auto bolters, you pick the round that's more powerful against the targets you're facing. 1 point is worth making your Aggressors move up the board more than just 5'' at a time, I feel.

And in games, I've never once felt I wish I had an extra AP on any of my screen clearing units, horde mulching units. However, I have often felt I wish I could move further, to make it to cover, to ensure I'm protected from smites, or to help screen. Extra movement has always been valuable - extra AP on a handful of shots has never been so good that I can easily land one way or the other on that.

Bolt rifles are great, no doubt about it - but I don't see the draw in adding Aggressors to a bolt rifle squad. Better to throw them alongside Hellblasters I think, where they synergize better. For what I use Aggressors for (it's a boatload of str 4 shooting, so mulch cheap horde infantry), the auto bolter fits their role so much better.

They're mathematically better outside 15 and entirely worse inside 15. If you have an aggressor in the squad you are going to be very close to the 18" mark and with kraken will double tap at that range anyways. I hold that you want to play dangerously and live in that short-mid range zone to leverage your superior melee profiles and pressure more shooty armies when possible. Factor in also that getting within 15-18 inches with a bolt rifle is very easy and takes one or two turns depending on the army you are facing and who goes first. You can also deepstrike within rapid fire ranged easily if you so choose. Hellblasters are a great unit to put inside a kill team and they want to be in that sweet 15 inch range bracket anyways.
Bolt rifles have superior synergy with these models and are cheaper. I want to be close no matter what due to the inceptor, aggressors and hellblasters wanting to be in 15-18. If you are ONLY running the team as an anti chaff unit then maybe I can see going with assault bolters to get into position a bit better, but once there you never want to move anyway so the aggressor can double tap.
Even if I had a hardcore chaff eating unit I'd stick it in reserve so it does not get eaten alive turn 1 thus nullifying the mobility advantage of the assualt bolter option.

Edit: The -1 ap on the bolt rifle is a BIG deal. It reduces a guardsmen chance to survive a shot by 50% and takes marine bodies from 1/3 fails to 1/2 fails. Hellfire always wounding on twos is almost always the best option in rapid fire which is what you want to be in.

Figured I'd ask here since DW players are reading this thread....

Dumb question, maybe I am blind....did they take away the option for DW Terminators to take the power first/meltagun option away? I can't find a points cost anywhere....

I'm with you Lemondish. Aggressors and auto bolt rifles dovetail very nicely, I always start my lists with 2 of them and a SB killteam.

The squads advance on the first turn and then hardly move, in my experience. I like the 30" assault 2 -1 profile.

Anyone taking a corvus? I've got one and have painted it up but it seems so insanely expensive to simply drop off a unit of veterans.

I take one. It's too cool not to. If you do I recommend you go full dakka and use it to harry units. It's fun.

 grouchoben wrote:
I take one. It's too cool not to. If you do I recommend you go full dakka and use it to harry units. It's fun.

Yeah one got it with hurricane bolters and assault cannon plus black Star missile launcher. Plus I've got 2 squads of vets in my list!

I should also point out that my Fortis Kill Teams are not relegated to anti-chaff units only, so maybe that influences their use. Mine fairly often are the units used to take out monsters and elite infantry as well. My Hellblasters are usually on tanks all game, so they don't have a lot of extra time.

Interestingly... I ran the math on 10 SB Vets vs 10 Bolt Rifle Intercessors, and against anything T5 or higher the Bolt Rifles, even though they are half the shots, almost put the same number of wounds as the SB's... Cut them down to the same number of shots and the Rifles blow them out of the water. I see a very similar correlation with the BR and ABR comparison, but it depends on what you are using them for. Just Chaff? Go SB Vets. Fast way of synergizing with Bolter Inceptors and Aggressors? ABRs. Generalist unit that will do what they need to? I argue it's hard to do better than the BR. Deathwatch are one of the best overall Chaff clearers in the game, so I try to focus on units that can handle other things our success isn't as prolific at.

Spot on garius!

 grouchoben wrote:
I'm with you Lemondish. Aggressors and auto bolt rifles dovetail very nicely, I always start my lists with 2 of them and a SB killteam.

The squads advance on the first turn and then hardly move, in my experience. I like the 30" assault 2 -1 profile.

If they don't move, why not take the standard bolt rifle for the extra 6" of 'not in melee'?

Double the shots against quite a few targets.

Can anyone have a glance at my list??

+ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [97 PL, 1750pts] ++

+ HQ [14 PL, 248pts] +

Watch Captain [7 PL, 118pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Jump Pack [2 PL, 19pts], Master-crafted boltgun [3pts], Thunder hammer [21pts]

Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]: Lord of Hidden Knowledge, Tome of the Ectoclades, Warlord

+ Troops [50 PL, 805pts] +

Intercessors [13 PL, 239pts]
. Aggressor [2 PL, 37pts]
. . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher [16pts]: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets [12pts], Fragstorm Grenade Launchers [4pts]
. Hellblaster [2 PL, 34pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Plasma incinerator [15pts]
. Hellblaster [2 PL, 34pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Plasma incinerator [15pts]
. Hellblaster [2 PL, 34pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Plasma incinerator [15pts]
. Intercessor [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts]
. Intercessor [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts]
. Intercessor [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts]
. Intercessor [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts]
. Intercessor Sergeant [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts], Chainsword

Intercessors [13 PL, 239pts]
. Aggressor [2 PL, 37pts]
. . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher [16pts]: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets [12pts], Fragstorm Grenade Launchers [4pts]
. Hellblaster [2 PL, 34pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Plasma incinerator [15pts]
. Hellblaster [2 PL, 34pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Plasma incinerator [15pts]
. Hellblaster [2 PL, 34pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Plasma incinerator [15pts]
. Intercessor [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts]
. Intercessor [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts]
. Intercessor [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts]
. Intercessor [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts]
. Intercessor Sergeant [1 PL, 20pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Bolt rifle [1pts], Chainsword

Veterans [13 PL, 191pts]
. Veteran [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Storm Bolter [4pts]
. Veteran [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Storm Bolter [4pts]
. Veteran [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Storm Bolter [4pts]
. Veteran [2 PL, 25pts]: Storm Bolter [4pts], Storm shield [5pts]
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon [2 PL, 41pts]: Deathwatch Frag Cannon [25pts]
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon [2 PL, 41pts]: Deathwatch Frag Cannon [25pts]
. Watch Sergeant [2 PL, 24pts]: Power maul [4pts], Storm Bolter [4pts]

Veterans [11 PL, 136pts]
. Veteran [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Storm Bolter [4pts]
. Veteran [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Storm Bolter [4pts]
. Veteran [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Storm Bolter [4pts]
. Veteran [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Storm Bolter [4pts]
. Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon [2 PL, 36pts]: Infernus Heavy Bolter [20pts]
. Watch Sergeant [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Storm Bolter [4pts]

+ Elites [16 PL, 330pts] +

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher [25pts], Twin lascannon [50pts]

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher [25pts], Twin lascannon [50pts]

+ Flyer [12 PL, 251pts] +

Corvus Blackstar [12 PL, 251pts]: Auspex Array [5pts], Hurricane bolter [10pts], Twin assault cannon [44pts]
. 2x Stormstrike Missile Launchers [42pts]: 2x Stormstrike missile launcher [42pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [5 PL, 116pts] +

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm Bolter [2pts], Twin assault cannon [44pts]

++ Total: [97 PL, 1750pts] ++

thoughts guys?? im not 100 percent on this list but i do have all the models, the plan is for the venerable dreads to sit back and plink away with lascannon and ML. The corvus and razorback go forward with the veterans and use them on infantry targets while the intercessors slog on foot. Im not sold on putting an aggressor in with the primaris and they are quite pricey.

One of the options i could go with is drop the aggressors and use the points to chuck on my razorback vets to give them some combi meltas.