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So if some of those heavy weapon changes from the BA/DA list transfer directly to DW, Dreadnoughts just got a *lot* more interesting.
A little disappointed regular Vets dont seem to be getting a base cost drop (as they're apparently only a point cheaper than Intercessors), but without the weapon costs I don't think we've got enough info yet to make a call.
Bolt pistol tax is gone, all Primaris appear to be -1 PPM, Vets are 14 PPM. Stormshields at 2 points (10 for characters). MLs at 20 points, TLs at 40, Plasma cannons at 16
Deathwatch got some SUPER strong buffs with this one. for 2 POINTS you can give your veterans a 3++. THATS STUPID. For 20 points you can have the storm shield storm bolter loadout and be pretty dang durable with a 3++ and put out very respectable damage. Or if you want to sit back you can go with a stalker bolter for 1 POINT and storm shield 2 POINTS for a 17 point model that spits out SIA -1 rounds at 30 inches and has a 3++. Primaris intercessors going down 2 points ppm (base and pistol tax) is great, but I don't think they can compare to HOW ABSURD 2 point storm shields make veterans.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Deathwatch got some SUPER strong buffs with this one. for 2 POINTS you can give your veterans a 3++. THATS STUPID. For 20 points you can have the storm shield storm bolter loadout and be pretty dang durable with a 3++ and put out very respectable damage. Or if you want to sit back you can go with a stalker bolter for 1 POINT and storm shield 2 POINTS for a 17 point model that spits out SIA -1 rounds at 30 inches and has a 3++. Primaris intercessors going down 2 points ppm (base and pistol tax) is great, but I don't think they can compare to HOW ABSURD 2 point storm shields make veterans.
Stalker Bolt Rifle is the Intercessor weapon, not the Stalker Pattern Boltgun that Vets can take.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Deathwatch got some SUPER strong buffs with this one. for 2 POINTS you can give your veterans a 3++. THATS STUPID. For 20 points you can have the storm shield storm bolter loadout and be pretty dang durable with a 3++ and put out very respectable damage. Or if you want to sit back you can go with a stalker bolter for 1 POINT and storm shield 2 POINTS for a 17 point model that spits out SIA -1 rounds at 30 inches and has a 3++. Primaris intercessors going down 2 points ppm (base and pistol tax) is great, but I don't think they can compare to HOW ABSURD 2 point storm shields make veterans.
Stalker Bolt Rifle is the Intercessor weapon, not the Stalker Pattern Boltgun that Vets can take.
Ahh ok that is much better! Thank you very much for correcting me. Still though the storm bolter set up is really good. 200 points for 10 of those boys deepstriking down into rapid fire spewing out four shots each wounding any none-vehicle on 2 and even against vehicles being ap-1 is really solid offense and on top of that they all have 3++ invulnerable saves. Two of those deepstriking down is a lot of hurt. And if you want you could swap out 1 vet for a vangaurd vet with dual pistols who can let you fall back and shoot.
4 point drop on Bikes makes the Vet combat squad shenanigans even more interesting. A pod of three bikes plus two dual-pistol VanVets would be 109. That's a *lot* of mobile T5 SIA dakka. with ObSec
Sterling191 wrote: 4 point drop on Bikes makes the Vet combat squad shenanigans even more interesting. A pod of three bikes plus two dual-pistol VanVets would be 109. That's a *lot* of mobile T5 SIA dakka. with ObSec
My question would be why take that when you can just take more stormshield storm bolter veterans?
My question would be why take that when you can just take more stormshield storm bolter veterans?
Because you can only deepstrike 3 units via strats, and mobility is an asset.
To have that squad you are already breaking off from 5 veterans so those guys have to be somewhere so that means they're either deepstriking, riding in a vehicle or camping in the back with stalkers. If they're deepstriking then it's too late to split up. If they are in a vehicle then theres the mobility issue solved. The stalker option is not bad and I can see our point about mobility, but I must admit I am skeptical of the survivability of a little 5 man team with no invulns. But you know with that 4 point drop it did make those bikers even better and they were already pretty good.
Sterling191 wrote: 4 point drop on Bikes makes the Vet combat squad shenanigans even more interesting. A pod of three bikes plus two dual-pistol VanVets would be 109. That's a *lot* of mobile T5 SIA dakka. with ObSec
My question would be why take that when you can just take more stormshield storm bolter veterans?
The ability to get in fast and lock a unit in combat (ergo forcing it to fallback) is a powerful tool.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
I am planning on making a Stalker Heavy Bolter Missile camping squad with the mobile split option though I'm thinking pistol shield for the Vanvets.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
I'm thinking that, with the cuts to Ven Dreads, it is plausible to get 2-3 camping with a Watch Master and some Stalker Vets. It's expensive but makes for a nice lineup.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
just looking through the codex and i think my list has dropped in points by quite a significant amount.
Ive got 2 Ven dreads with TL and ML and alone they are 50 points less combined. Also got a backline camping squad of veterans with Stalkers and a missile launcher so im pretty pleased right now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/07 21:11:36
I’m going to have to get more vanguard veterans! With bolt pistols now being free, we can have VVets with two special-ammo pistols each, cowboy style.
With inferno pistols dropping to 7 points and storm shields dropping to 2, I’m tempted to run flying tank killers with 3++ armor. Maybe with a few well-protected ones with 2 inferno pistols each!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/07 23:47:00
Whooo daddy these are some friendly buffs! I think a big winner is the Ven. -10pts, -5 off the ML, -10 off the TLC equals 140pts for some decent firepower.
But we now have TLC and fist option looking a lot more viable at 152pts, thanks to 10 off the fist. I do actually like this loadout I have to say, as it transforms the little boxy fella into a bit of a counter-assault nightmare.
I have mixed feelings about the Shield points drop. It feels way too cheap imo - I don't know if primaris are really worth it now. 159pt buys you 5 SS/SB vets, a pistol van vet and an Axe terminator. That's a rock solid unit at a very cheap price, DS'ing in with 26 SIA shots, that only has problems against mortal wounds in the counter attack. People are going to start hating playing us.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/08 09:58:15
On average think I got about 10% or more off on my standard 2k lists.
After watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Q07rUVH4M (didn't go over the forgeworld differences, arh well I can wait a week) EDIT: DW is about at 1:02:56 (time stamp)
Re-did a few of my standard 2k points armies and had between 180pts - 210pts or so left over now (I don't run any primaris, so if run them prob more).
Allowed me to add in a few novelties.
Have to wait and see if good for balance or ... (if a lot of units/weapons in multiple armies get a price reduction etc defeats the point). Haven't had time to look at my other armies, DW was just first one I looked at.
Disappointed that Deathwatch shotguns got no love or changes (maybe there is something in there?).
Also sad that Stalker boltguns got no reduction (Vet marine weapon) was hoping for a point off.
Infernus heavy bolter still the same (still never gunna run it then).
Assault cannons seem to be more expensive than lascannons now (as in the twin linked variety, but maybe I am wrong. I do have a list or 2 I run with some twin AC in 2k (is my mechanised list. Most of my armies/lists I prefer lots of infantry/vet squads over vehicles), seems even more pricey now, twin las and twin assault are different roles, but still).
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/12/09 05:28:46
14k Generic Space Marine Chapters 20k Deathwatch 10k Sisters of Battle 3k Inquisition 4k Grey Knights 5k Imperial Guard 4k Harlequins 8k Tau
With the reduction in points to standard vets, what are people thinking about in regards to heavy weapons squads as backline projectors? I’m thinking 3 missile launchers
Also would a full squad of plasma vets be viable to make sure a knight/ monster gets crippled and or deleted
If my calculations are correct this list with the CA drops should be 970points.
Id like to hear your opinions on it.
I’ll definitely be facing Knights again but also Drukhari (won the last tournament), Admech, Necrons, Guard, Nids
With the remaining points I would stock up on Stormbolters.
All the stuff of Deathwatch I have is:
2x start collecting (20vets, 2 artemis, 2 VenDreads with TwinLas and Fist)
2x Librarian
1x converted TH Cap.
1x Box of intercessors
6x Aggressors
1x box of hellblasters
3x Reivers
I'm thinking of switching out the assault cannons on my Corvus for lascannons. It's not that we really need the increased shots with our vets. being cheaper is quite strange. Should probably just magnetize anyway.
My only issue is that I have quite a lot of dudes without stormshields, which is crazy now. Shotguns still worthless, will save them for narrative games. Overall, some nice drops.
Unfortunate that have that squad of shotguns still. Seeing as they're only 17 points now though it ain't as bad...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
demontalons wrote: With the reduction in points to standard vets, what are people thinking about in regards to heavy weapons squads as backline projectors? I’m thinking 3 missile launchers
Also would a full squad of plasma vets be viable to make sure a knight/ monster gets crippled and or deleted
I think the ML went down to 20, which is nice, but that's a 29 point model. I don't think that's exactly a great idea. I feel we still need to rely on allies for being campers for the most part.
However, the LasBack got a slight point decrease which makes them attractive for sure. Still think the math favors the Assault Cannon though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/09 18:49:29
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
After these changes I feel really damn idiotic for building all this Deathwatch Primaris stuff. Vets are now better than Primaris in nearly every way, and they were already pretty much there.
Whoever thought Primaris were ever going to realistically replace the ugly minimarines clearly didn't see CA or Vigilus Campaign book coming...
demontalons wrote: With the reduction in points to standard vets, what are people thinking about in regards to heavy weapons squads as backline projectors? I’m thinking 3 missile launchers
Also would a full squad of plasma vets be viable to make sure a knight/ monster gets crippled and or deleted
Go combi-plasma. They're the same price, but in a pinch they can fire both (using the baseline plasma shot) and basically be as deadly as storm bolters against chaff even with the -1 to hit.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/09 21:13:35
Lemon you sound certain about that, but tbh intercessor squads still look stronger to me againgst everything except for overcharged plasma and autocannons.
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I agree with Lemon. Storm bolter + Storm Shield, with a termi in the squad for 2+ and an optional van vet for CC-tie-up immunity is a solid solid squad now. Better defensive profile and better guns.
