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 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Get Heavy Bolters back on the SIA list? They were never on it.

Whoops, I thought they were once upon a time. I must be misremembering. Apologies for the confusion

I got a box of Primaris Aggressors as a prize at a recent tournament to add to two sets of Primaris from the box set.

Unfortunately the Deathwatch Codex sold out or I'd have snagged that too.

So until re-stocking this week, what all (or mostly) Primaris Deathwatch units/Detachments/Armies/Quilting Circles would be good to start up a Deathwatch army?

So I got some questions for Terminator conversions:

1. Combi-weapons for terminator HQs: where do you find the bits for these? Terminator captains with combi-plasma sound amazing.
2. Meltaguns on power fists: Again, any idea how to convert these? The only one I know of is the Salamander on Kill Team Cassius. I also found out that Terminator captains can get this as well, so you could have a dual melta captain or storm bolter/meltagun, which seems like the only model worth putting a meltagun on.

Lemondish wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Get Heavy Bolters back on the SIA list? They were never on it.

Whoops, I thought they were once upon a time. I must be misremembering. Apologies for the confusion

They were never on it, but you were able to pay points to give them the option to fire Hellfire shells in 7th.

They still have the infernus.

Does anyone know if Artemis still has the statis bomb?

 Primark G wrote:
They still have the infernus.

Does anyone know if Artemis still has the statis bomb?

He does and I would still not take him over a watch master.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
They still have the infernus.

Does anyone know if Artemis still has the statis bomb?

He does and I would still not take him over a watch master.

FNP, 2+ wound combi-flamer, mortal wound bomb. Watch Master is a force multiplier, sits in the back, takes your warlord tactic and probably your relic and does his best to deny Slay the Warlord, but Artemis is just a beast of a model by himself. Don't make him your warlord but he makes a mean machine to send in with the boys.

 SputnikDX wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
They still have the infernus.

Does anyone know if Artemis still has the statis bomb?

He does and I would still not take him over a watch master.

FNP, 2+ wound combi-flamer, mortal wound bomb. Watch Master is a force multiplier, sits in the back, takes your warlord tactic and probably your relic and does his best to deny Slay the Warlord, but Artemis is just a beast of a model by himself. Don't make him your warlord but he makes a mean machine to send in with the boys.

FNP 6+ and 5 wounds means he might just equal out to having the same amount of wounds as a watch master. His mortal wound bomb is nice no denying that especially with his 2+ re-rollable chance to hit. His shooting is a 2+ flamer which is good and a normal boltgun where as the watch master has a ap-1 2 damage boltgun. I'll give the shooting edge to Artimas, but it is in melee where artimas falls apart. He has a dinky power sword and that is it as well as only a 3+ armor. The master hits much harder, stays alive longer, and provides full re-rolls to hit which is huge. At the bare minimum he doubles what you re-roll to hit normally and on overwatch he helps a ton!

Personally I don't think its even a contest, but I do see what you are saying. If Artimas had a better melee weapon we could talk.

I thought WM has six wounds now. There is no reason to take only one HQ unless I guess you are running a patrol - right?

 Primark G wrote:
I thought WM has six wounds now. There is no reason to take only one HQ unless I guess you are running a patrol - right?

WM does have 6 wounds while Arty only has 5, but with a 6+++. That just about equals out if you figure arty makes one for every six wounds he takes.

You can only just take 1 hq if you are doing a spearhead or something.

 Primark G wrote:
I thought WM has six wounds now. There is no reason to take only one HQ unless I guess you are running a patrol - right?

WM has 6. Artemis has 5 and 6+++. Which is slightly less then 6. So the FnP is hardly a bonus compared to the WM.

I do think Artemis could go for a better melee weapon, but I've been pretty happy with him dropping out of the Corvis with the Frag team. He generally manages to get the statis bomb out and survives retaliation in no small part due to the flamer on overwatch.

I find him to be the right HQ to include in the Corvis bomb plan. My main issue is more that the Corvis bomb itself probably isn't the best plan, as fun as it is.

@ Ordana:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
I thought WM has six wounds now. There is no reason to take only one HQ unless I guess you are running a patrol - right?

WM does have 6 wounds while Arty only has 5, but with a 6+++. That just about equals out if you figure arty makes one for every six wounds he takes.

You got ninja'd son.

I haven't given up on Drop Pods being really good for Deathwatch. Now that we have a unit that can actually spit a stupid level of effective fire into the drop pod: 6 Storm Bolter Veterans and 3 Frag Cannons with Captain/Artemis/Watch Master that can drop alongside a Primaris squad/Dreadnought out of the Teleportarium is just a great way to get people in threat range with your HQ and gun some folks down.

Also I think Watch Master is better than Artemis if you can only take one. Watch Master + Artemis seems like a great deal, except there's no "one model only" limit on Watch Masters, so spam away.

It is, but you are guaranteed to lose a lot of points the very next turn. I don't think the one wound DW guys are a good value.

 SputnikDX wrote:
I haven't given up on Drop Pods being really good for Deathwatch. Now that we have a unit that can actually spit a stupid level of effective fire into the drop pod: 6 Storm Bolter Veterans and 3 Frag Cannons with Captain/Artemis/Watch Master that can drop alongside a Primaris squad/Dreadnought out of the Teleportarium is just a great way to get people in threat range with your HQ and gun some folks down.

Why waste the points on a drop pod? If you want a transport to work alongside beacons and the deepstrike stratagem just invest in a corvis. It is a solid model on its own right and can bring very valuable anti-tank to the army.

 SputnikDX wrote:
So I got some questions for Terminator conversions:

1. Combi-weapons for terminator HQs: where do you find the bits for these? Terminator captains with combi-plasma sound amazing.
2. Meltaguns on power fists: Again, any idea how to convert these? The only one I know of is the Salamander on Kill Team Cassius. I also found out that Terminator captains can get this as well, so you could have a dual melta captain or storm bolter/meltagun, which seems like the only model worth putting a meltagun on.

There's a combi-melta in the Blood Angels Librarian Terminator kit by the looks of the sprue on the GW website. Looks like FW also has a pack of Terminator weapons, but they're using the older pattern bolter. You could just use a normal combi weapons from like a Sternguard kit since it ultimately is the same weapon.

As for the meltaguns on powerfists - heard some folks talking about using chainfists and replacing the chain with the melta barrel. I'm personally only going to make one of these and just use the arm from Kill Team Cassius.

Martel732 wrote:
It is, but you are guaranteed to lose a lot of points the very next turn. I don't think the one wound DW guys are a good value.

Alright:
You have a few units on the table about 9" from where your screen was before it was completely obliterated. There's a drop pod, a 9 man veteran kill team, two 10 man primaris kill teams, a Watch Master you can't target, and a leviathan dreadnought. There are two kill teams in the back with missile launchers and stalker boltguns, also supported by another watch master.

What's your game plan?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Why waste the points on a drop pod? If you want a transport to work alongside beacons and the deepstrike stratagem just invest in a corvis. It is a solid model on its own right and can bring very valuable anti-tank to the army.

Because I've had enough vehicles blown up on turn 1 to not rely on them, especially ones on huge flying bases that can't hide behind buildings.

Corvus is great, don't get me wrong, but I'll take reliability over a pretty plane, especially because I've been dying to have drop pods work since 8th started.

"Alright:
You have a few units on the table about 9" from where your screen was before it was completely obliterated. There's a drop pod, a 9 man veteran kill team, two 10 man primaris kill teams, a Watch Master you can't target, and a leviathan dreadnought. There are two kill teams in the back with missile launchers and stalker boltguns, also supported by another watch master.

What's your game plan?"

As BA, IG or Xenos? As Xenos, just kill your dudes. Because Xenos. Shoot your primaris with my 2 damage weapons and your 1 W guys with my other weapons.

IG lose nothing important by losing their screen. Shoot primaris with multi-wound artillery/battlecannons, shoot 1 W goobers with mortars/heavy bolters.

With BA, I probably lose. Big shocker.

1 W DW models are very fragile for their cost. They are all-in on causing a ton of damage quickly, because they have staying power. I prefer the slow burn of a mostly intercessor force and then soup in other Imperial elements. Preferably more targets for multi-wound weapons.

I want all my Deathwatch games to end in a table on turn 3. Either I win or you win. If I haven't blown you off the board or been totally annihilated by then I'll consider it a bad game.

Martel, you realize BA are placing pretty highly? I'd argue they're a good bit better than DW.

And yes, I know BA is only part of Imperial Soup in top tournaments. Guess what? No one's pure at that level.

 SputnikDX wrote:
I want all my Deathwatch games to end in a table on turn 3. Either I win or you win. If I haven't blown you off the board or been totally annihilated by then I'll consider it a bad game.

Oh well, carry on then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Martel, you realize BA are placing pretty highly? I'd argue they're a good bit better than DW.

And yes, I know BA is only part of Imperial Soup in top tournaments. Guess what? No one's pure at that level.

I don't consider that BA placing highly, but it's all semantics.

Mono-BA would certainly lose to this tactic. BA are in no way better than DW. Having functional troops is huge.

RogueApiary wrote:

 john27 wrote:
So what's the best vehicle killers we have?

Hellblasters, Leviathan dreads, Contemptor Mortis dreads, and Xiphon interceptors are my top picks. In a pinch I guess you could run pseudo Dev squads with 4x missile launchers and some other Bolter or bolter/shield vets to absorb wounds.

The ability to spit out a ton of wounding on 4's/5's with Str 4 AP -2/-3 guns also helps a little.

Vehicle cracking is definitely my current puzzle. Right now I just run a couple TLC Razorbacks half out of laziness, but they're often just a option to deploy important things inside. With Primaris largely removing that option and Mission Tactics not benefiting them, I feel like I need a better solution.

Martel732 wrote:

 SputnikDX wrote:
I want all my Deathwatch games to end in a table on turn 3. Either I win or you win. If I haven't blown you off the board or been totally annihilated by then I'll consider it a bad game.

Oh well, carry on then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Martel, you realize BA are placing pretty highly? I'd argue they're a good bit better than DW.

And yes, I know BA is only part of Imperial Soup in top tournaments. Guess what? No one's pure at that level.

I don't consider that BA placing highly, but it's all semantics.

Mono-BA would certainly lose to this tactic. BA are in no way better than DW. Having functional troops is huge.

Sure...but if I could take scout squads in DW? That'd be amazing. Been strongly considering adding the plug and play BA batt to my DW.

Scouts are... meh. I won't miss them much if I drop them from my lists for DW. I feel like I'm giving away 165 pts every game.

Martel732 wrote:
Scouts are... meh. I won't miss them much if I drop them from my lists for DW. I feel like I'm giving away 165 pts every game.

In an army where not a single model is expendable, scouts are a godsend. I still think realistically if I wanted to run DW in a competitive fashion I'd have a RG Battalion with 3 scout squads with heavy bolter, Shrike, Lieutenant, and two devastator squads each with cherub, 2 lascannons, and 1 ML. 671 points for 5 CP and some nice anti-vehicle and expendable models that can help me get turn 1 board control and hopefully keep the middle of the board belonging to me until turn 2 when the deep strike shenanigans happen.

I don't consider 11 ppm expendable. That's the problem with scouts.

Just a heads up, for anyone trying to scoop up Storm Bolters on eBay.

I purchased 20 for $12 a few weeks ago. The package finally arrived, they're all recasts. Slightly warped, the sides of the mold don't exactly line up, they're made of a fairly brittle material, some details missing on every piece. Probably usable as debris on bases, but not on models.

Have spoken with the seller. He's embarrassed and refunded what I paid for them. Claims he was unaware they are recasts and that the quality was so poor.

While I didn't see any other auctions for Storm Bolters on his store page, I had the impression he has done other auctions for the same without complaint.

While I'm not out any money, this does put a crimp in my plans. Be careful about oh-so-good-deals on Storm Bolters.

Alright so this will be my first attempt at a 2000 point competitive list now that Battlescribe has been updated. I don't have most of these models but I'd love to get some feedback.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't consider 11 ppm expendable. That's the problem with scouts.

The option is to use 11 point models or have trouble getting mid field objectives turn 1 in Maelstrom/Progressive games and no push back screen against T1 shenanigans, which still very much exist.

If you want them they are a god sent.
If you don't need them its 'only' 165 points and you can deploy them conservatively.