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That part comes from the GW guys in one twitch stream. So anything is possible!

 Alpharius wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I too am disappointed by the execution of Primaris marines in the fluff. I much prefer KK's suggestion that Cawl's grand project was instead new gear & drugs to improve on pre-existing space marines. Though as I understand it old marines can be Primaris-ified, so it would be interesting to see characters undergo that transformation.

...that last bit there is now in question, and it is looking like this is actually NOT the case!

Ug, that was a major redeeming factor for me...

It might still be the case, but a couple of prominent BL authors are saying "Nope" currently...

 Alpharius wrote:
It might still be the case, but a couple of prominent BL authors are saying "Nope" currently...

which authors and where are they saying "nope"?

 Alpharius wrote:
It might still be the case, but a couple of prominent BL authors are saying "Nope" currently...

I'd be fine with this. SM going into the hyperbolic geenseed chamber( ) to get to the next power level always felt like a bit of a cop out. Having legendary heroes like Grimnar and Dante facing there impending obsolescence is much more interesting.

At first I was like "oh no, that means my beloved Space Marine characters are gonna die off with time!"

But after a second thought... I was more... actually, what Space Marine Character is really interesting? Who is not just a Gary Stu that is only special by the fact that he is the best at what he does?

What personality has Azrael, for example, or Belial, besides having a cool looking model, that isn't something that could be any player-made Chapter Master or Chief-Librarian? Maybe is my RPG mind speaking here, where I always find the "core characters" of a universe very lacklusters (Like the Warcraft ones), but... to be honest, I wouldn't cry a single tear if they just erase all 40k special characters and made new ones.

Only for Bel'akor. Bel'akor is love, both in model and in fluff!

I dunno... I feel like adding a weakness to primaris would be a better way to do it. Maybe a limited lifespan (compared to non porimaris marines)? Higher maintenance requirements? Stuff like that would mean that classic SM still have a place in the universe.

 Galas wrote:
At first I was like "oh no, that means my beloved Space Marine characters are gonna die off with time!"

But after a second thought... I was more... actually, what Space Marine Character is really interesting? Who is not just a Gary Stu that is only special by the fact that he is the best at what he does?

What personality has Azrael, for example, or Belial, besides having a cool looking model, that isn't something that could be any player-made Chapter Master or Chief-Librarian? Maybe is my RPG mind speaking here, where I always find the "core characters" of a universe very lacklusters (Like the Warcraft ones), but... to be honest, I wouldn't cry a single tear if they just erase all 40k special characters and made new ones.

Only for Bel'akor. Bel'akor is love, both in model and in fluff!

Minotaurs Chapter Master, ASTERION MOLOC, WOULD BE MISSED IN MY HEART.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
It might still be the case, but a couple of prominent BL authors are saying "Nope" currently...

which authors and where are they saying "nope"?

Top men.

Top.

Men.

 reds8n wrote:

beast_gts wrote:


'Normal' Marines can be upgraded to Primaris, and Cawl's first batch of Primaris have been fighting for over 100 years by the time of the Dark Imperium novel.

There appears to be conflicting reports here.

It has, apparently, been claimed during the 8th edition release hype that marines can be "upgraded", however 2 well established no reason to lie BL authors have independently stated that they have been told that this is not the case and that this is not possible.


.. currently anyway.

 Galas wrote:
At first I was like "oh no, that means my beloved Space Marine characters are gonna die off with time!"

But after a second thought... I was more... actually, what Space Marine Character is really interesting? Who is not just a Gary Stu that is only special by the fact that he is the best at what he does?

What personality has Azrael, for example, or Belial, besides having a cool looking model, that isn't something that could be any player-made Chapter Master or Chief-Librarian? Maybe is my RPG mind speaking here, where I always find the "core characters" of a universe very lacklusters (Like the Warcraft ones), but... to be honest, I wouldn't cry a single tear if they just erase all 40k special characters and made new ones.

Only for Bel'akor. Bel'akor is love, both in model and in fluff!

Azrael is mostly stubborn, I guess, and mildly jackassy.
That said I don't hate any of the current Chapter Masters outside Grimnar. I simply have ones I like more (Asterion and Tyberos) compared to others (Dante and Malakim and TuShan).

The only difference between an Astartes and its Primaris equivalent are a single wound. Making every special character a Primaris would be as noticable as just giving them one more wound. There is no difference between the two other than model size so why even bother making anything primaris at all?

I still find the Primaris a confusing addition to 40k that seems more and more like GW chickened out of a hard reboot on space marines and settled for a compromise. I thought Primaris would rapidly replace regular marines but now I see no reason to buy Primaris. Clunky stock posed models that have none of what makes the marine range so great.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
The only difference between an Astartes and its Primaris equivalent are a single wound. Making every special character a Primaris would be as noticable as just giving them one more wound. There is no difference between the two other than model size so why even bother making anything primaris at all?

I still find the Primaris a confusing addition to 40k that seems more and more like GW chickened out of a hard reboot on space marines and settled for a compromise. I thought Primaris would rapidly replace regular marines but now I see no reason to buy Primaris. Clunky stock posed models that have none of what makes the marine range so great.

Kind of agree, they don't seem to have access to any of the iconic weapons that gave the space marines character. No meltas, flamers, rocket launchers, grav guns etc. The variety of crude gothic guns the SM had is part of the charm for me. I guess we'll have to see how the upcoming kits turn out. I hope the sergeants and lieutenants have more options.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
The only difference between an Astartes and its Primaris equivalent are a single wound. Making every special character a Primaris would be as noticable as just giving them one more wound. There is no difference between the two other than model size so why even bother making anything primaris at all?

I still find the Primaris a confusing addition to 40k that seems more and more like GW chickened out of a hard reboot on space marines and settled for a compromise. I thought Primaris would rapidly replace regular marines but now I see no reason to buy Primaris. Clunky stock posed models that have none of what makes the marine range so great.

Oversized heads and pauldrons, models squatting like slavs, and skulls and aquillas everywhere?

I like Space Marines as any other, but the Primaris are better than the basic Tactical Marines. Is just a objetive truth. From a aesthetic and anatomy standpoint, they are just better miniatures. I like the Darth-Vader helmet better actually, and in general the aesthetics of the normal marines more than the Primaris, but one has to be realistic. Space Marines have never been a really... "great" range of miniatures, from a quality standpoint.

BrianDavion wrote:
it does suggest the Primaris Marine was finished etc and they where prepping as early oas 2016 which is actually impressive when you consider that the first rumors and leaks only started to come out in march or so.

Not really. They do things years in advance. Planning for the nu40k likely started around 2015 if not sooner. Maybe even some preliminary ideas along with AOS which was started around 2012.

BTW Forgeworld is also handing those out among orders seeing I got one as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Khorne protecting the Blood Angels to corrupt them later would be interesting if the GW writers pull it off...

Wait, what> Next yoyr goona tell me Necrons & Blood Angels team up to battle a common foe. Not buying it.

Well, they do enter into a state of murderous rage, to the point where they had to make a separate detachment for those who are most susceptible to it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Khorne has an interest in the the Blood Angels.
Makes more sense than the Necrons and BA teaming up anyway.

Khorne tried in 30k. Failed.

 Galas wrote:
I like the Darth-Vader helmet better actually, and in general the aesthetics of the normal marines more than the Primaris, but one has to be realistic.

The helmet is the last bit of Mk VIII armor from that classic sketch that we were missing.

So are we calling old school marines Secondus now?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So are we calling old school marines Secondus now?

I've been since the initial announcement... along with adeptus restartes for primaris.

I just feel rather lukewarm about the Primaris in general. I like the models but the fluff execution was... crude? It just feels like there is something missing, like it wasn't fully developed, and I can't put my finger on what.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
It might still be the case, but a couple of prominent BL authors are saying "Nope" currently...

I'd be fine with this. SM going into the hyperbolic geenseed chamber( ) to get to the next power level always felt like a bit of a cop out. Having legendary heroes like Grimnar and Dante facing there impending obsolescence is much more interesting.

I guess I don't find that plot idea too compelling personally because I don't care all that much about the characters. But it would be a reasonable direction to take it. I suppose what I really want to see is development of the characters rather than just the plot, to give them some identity beyond <chapter> personified.

 Galas wrote:
At first I was like "oh no, that means my beloved Space Marine characters are gonna die off with time!"

But after a second thought... I was more... actually, what Space Marine Character is really interesting? Who is not just a Gary Stu that is only special by the fact that he is the best at what he does?

What personality has Azrael, for example, or Belial, besides having a cool looking model, that isn't something that could be any player-made Chapter Master or Chief-Librarian? Maybe is my RPG mind speaking here, where I always find the "core characters" of a universe very lacklusters (Like the Warcraft ones), but... to be honest, I wouldn't cry a single tear if they just erase all 40k special characters and made new ones.

Only for Bel'akor. Bel'akor is love, both in model and in fluff!

Belakor, the Mary Sue of all daemon princes, is the only character to get a pass for you in 40k? :p

 BrotherGecko wrote:
The only difference between an Astartes and its Primaris equivalent are a single wound. Making every special character a Primaris would be as noticable as just giving them one more wound. There is no difference between the two other than model size so why even bother making anything primaris at all?

I still find the Primaris a confusing addition to 40k that seems more and more like GW chickened out of a hard reboot on space marines and settled for a compromise. I thought Primaris would rapidly replace regular marines but now I see no reason to buy Primaris. Clunky stock posed models that have none of what makes the marine range so great.

It's cool if you don't like primaris but let's be real; the models are infinitely better and the current marine range isn't 'great' it's 'large'.

Marines are the neutral mask of factions. They don't look like anything. They're bland and you can superimpose yourself on them. The closest thing they had to standing out before was that the proportions were so out of wack you could make jokes about them being deformed.

The Primaris marines aren't inherently more interesting but they're just so much better looking than gakmarines that as long as the D.U.F.F.marines stick around primaris will SEEM tyranid or harlequin level interesting just by association.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
To be fair Space Marines are technology, and technology is always being improved upon.

We're talking about a setting that has had, right there at the front of every rulebook and novel, a blurb that includes the literal actual words:

To be a man in such times is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

I'm as old a fart as anyone here but this doesn't really bother me. GW has introduced new technology since 1st edition when the Vader marines replaced beakies. Since then we had the Razorback, the LR Crusader, fliers, and tons of other tech that was rediscovered or invented. It got a lot worse in recent years with Tech marines finding all sorts of cool junk that was 'always there' but never mentioned like Centurions and grav guns.

In the interest of a texture I've always assumed there is some level of invention and refinement going on but it's usually cloaked as 'rediscovery'. Sort of how Confucius never said he'd thought of Confucianism. Ancient China was also reluctant to accept the new and believed in a lost age of greatness so his writings always claimed he was just explaining the ancient secrets of the golden age.

Also the Imperium's progress has to be measured against decline in other areas, no more nanotech, no more terra forming, Star Trek style teleporters are now lost technology and very dangerous etc.

Besides I assume that at some point Guillman and the Primis' loyalty will be questioned.



Either they'll turn out to be part of an eldar plot, or be accused of being an eldar plot and discredited or they'll see what the Imperium really is and we'll get the long-foretold story line where the Ultramarines take off and start their own Imperium, with blackjack and hookers.

Any of those 3 would make for a neat storyline... IF GW is willing to try it.

Imperials working with Eldar isnt exactly Heresy, so long as it serves the Imperium's needs... and an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, Archmagos of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and a Living Saint of the Imperium all don't have a problem with Guilliman's return, I doubt anyone else in the Imperium has a leg to stand on if they want to complain.

 Galas wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
The only difference between an Astartes and its Primaris equivalent are a single wound. Making every special character a Primaris would be as noticable as just giving them one more wound. There is no difference between the two other than model size so why even bother making anything primaris at all?

I still find the Primaris a confusing addition to 40k that seems more and more like GW chickened out of a hard reboot on space marines and settled for a compromise. I thought Primaris would rapidly replace regular marines but now I see no reason to buy Primaris. Clunky stock posed models that have none of what makes the marine range so great.

Oversized heads and pauldrons, models squatting like slavs, and skulls and aquillas everywhere?

I like Space Marines as any other, but the Primaris are better than the basic Tactical Marines. Is just a objetive truth.

Objective truth, lol wut

Thats nonsense mate, its your personal view. Others will disagree.

the idea that Space Marines are the iconic unit to 40k is absolutely true, but Primaris Marines aren't exactly a huge change aesteticly. yes WE can pick out all sorts of little details that are differant. but to the casual observer it's well a pretty clear space Marine. big paulderons, eagle on the chest etc. sure some things are differant but lot's of varity among Marines. if GW intends for Primaris Marines to eventually be replacements this isn't exactly a huuuge huuuge change to the over all aestetic of space marines.

Is there a reason for the new marines not having the double headed eagle across their chest plate, it appears to be a single winged skull motif?

 Calistro wrote:
Is there a reason for the new marines not having the double headed eagle across their chest plate, it appears to be a single winged skull motif?

Looks like its a call back to earlier models of marines, which didn't have the aquila on the chest, but an orb with wings on either side.
Using my 12 year old starter set marines for reference.

If GW really wants Primaris to replace standard marines, all they need to do is sell them cheaper than the current ones!

Not that I see that happening, but stranger things have happened...

standing alone the Primaris Marine models look nice, but putting them next to normal marines does not look good, even if it is fluff conform ... I will paint some as Deathwatch and wait for some special characters, but otherwise I will focus on Horus Heresy stuff ...

 Fireball wrote:
standing alone the Primaris Marine models look nice, but putting them next to normal marines does not look good, even if it is fluff conform ... I will paint some as Deathwatch and wait for some special characters, but otherwise I will focus on Horus Heresy stuff ...

Same here!

I'll have an all Primaris force for 40K, and all my 'regular marines' will be set back in time to 30K.

Seeing the primarises in the wild now, I'm glad I sold off my remaining lilmarines. I really don't like the look of the 2 sizes mixed together, just looks off.

I'd love to do an all primaris army, but I think I want to wait a while now to see if they enlarge anything else, like rhinos and stuff. Or how about some Primaris Terminators?