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 cuda1179 wrote:
I'm actually hoping the Dreadnought will be decent at anti-horde duty. It looks like it has a super-assault cannon, a rotor cannon, and two storm bolters. That's more than enough for some serious horde shredding.

And we haven't seen the rules for the mini-missile launchers that the dread and tank have.

I have a question for the people here, I keep hearing about a Primaris Codex.

Could it be that they will just include all of them with vanilla space marines for a normal Space Marine codex?

Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. At least that's just my opinion on the matter.

 infinite_array wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I'm actually hoping the Dreadnought will be decent at anti-horde duty. It looks like it has a super-assault cannon, a rotor cannon, and two storm bolters. That's more than enough for some serious horde shredding.

And we haven't seen the rules for the mini-missile launchers that the dread and tank have.

It might be an even better dakka platform than that. My impression was that the "two storm bolters" were actually twin heavy bolters/assault bolters--or at least auto bolt rifles or similar. which would increase the dakka dice factor by a few more. Twin assault bolters would be rather interesting since the dreadnought would be able to use them in assault as well...

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I have a question for the people here, I keep hearing about a Primaris Codex.

Could it be that they will just include all of them with vanilla space marines for a normal Space Marine codex?

Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. At least that's just my opinion on the matter.

That depends. Is this still the same GW that thought Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus needed their own separate books?

 infinite_array wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I have a question for the people here, I keep hearing about a Primaris Codex.

Could it be that they will just include all of them with vanilla space marines for a normal Space Marine codex?

Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. At least that's just my opinion on the matter.

That depends. Is this still the same GW that thought Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus needed their own separate books?

You read Index Imperium 2?

Cause they're the same thing now. Congrats. You won, Skitarii got their flavor removed so people like you can now stop crying about the whole "Waah, they were two books!" nonsense.

I would expect Primaris to be part of a generic Codex: Space Marines. Why? Because it would be a way for them to do a big update/release without having to do too much all at once.

I fully expect Death Guard to get their own book however, done up in the vein of "Disciples of Tzeentch" for AoS where it includes the "mortal" followers(The Death Guard in this case) and the Daemonic stuff.

 Hive City Dweller wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
So Ancient is a reference to the age of the standard and the special rank of the banner bearer.

As discussed elsewhere, it's a corruption of ensign, and has nothing to do with age.

That's what I'm saying friend.

I thought you were saying that

Ancient is a reference to the age of the standard

Primaris and Death Guard are incomplete armies at the moment, so it's probably a bit early to judge their effectiveness as such.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I have a question for the people here, I keep hearing about a Primaris Codex.

Could it be that they will just include all of them with vanilla space marines for a normal Space Marine codex?

Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. At least that's just my opinion on the matter.

They might, but depending on the size of the Primaris range you could end up with a codex that's nearly the same size as the rulebook. The 7th SM codex is only 80 pages shorter than the 8th rule book. Trimming the 7th fat would reduce the page count somewhat, but those saved pages could easily be filled with the more recent units(Terminator variants, Contemptor dread and the Stormhawk), new background and new 8th rules. Having the Primaris as a separate book that's fully compatible with the SM Codex thanks to the keyword system makes more sense to me. Hopefully we will find out either way soon.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I have a question for the people here, I keep hearing about a Primaris Codex.

Could it be that they will just include all of them with vanilla space marines for a normal Space Marine codex?

Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. At least that's just my opinion on the matter.

They might, but depending on the size of the Primaris range you could end up with a codex that's nearly the same size as the rulebook. The 7th SM codex is only 80 pages shorter than the 8th rule book. Trimming the 7th fat would reduce the page count somewhat, but those saved pages could easily be filled with the more recent units(Terminator variants, Contemptor dread and the Stormhawk), new background and new 8th rules. Having the Primaris as a separate book that's fully compatible with the SM Codex thanks to the keyword system makes more sense to me. Hopefully we will find out either way soon.

True, they already have just as many, if not more, units than stand-alone Harlequins

 Kanluwen wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I have a question for the people here, I keep hearing about a Primaris Codex.

Could it be that they will just include all of them with vanilla space marines for a normal Space Marine codex?

Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. At least that's just my opinion on the matter.

That depends. Is this still the same GW that thought Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus needed their own separate books?

You read Index Imperium 2?

Cause they're the same thing now. Congrats. You won, Skitarii got their flavor removed so people like you can now stop crying about the whole "Waah, they were two books!" nonsense.

I would expect Primaris to be part of a generic Codex: Space Marines. Why? Because it would be a way for them to do a big update/release without having to do too much all at once.

I fully expect Death Guard to get their own book however, done up in the vein of "Disciples of Tzeentch" for AoS where it includes the "mortal" followers(The Death Guard in this case) and the Daemonic stuff.

Skitarii didn't get their flavour removed more than Tempestus Scions being again Imperial Guard units.
Is like having "Codex: Space Marines Scouts". Just absurd.

 Galas wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I have a question for the people here, I keep hearing about a Primaris Codex.

Could it be that they will just include all of them with vanilla space marines for a normal Space Marine codex?

Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. At least that's just my opinion on the matter.

That depends. Is this still the same GW that thought Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus needed their own separate books?

You read Index Imperium 2?

Cause they're the same thing now. Congrats. You won, Skitarii got their flavor removed so people like you can now stop crying about the whole "Waah, they were two books!" nonsense.

I would expect Primaris to be part of a generic Codex: Space Marines. Why? Because it would be a way for them to do a big update/release without having to do too much all at once.

I fully expect Death Guard to get their own book however, done up in the vein of "Disciples of Tzeentch" for AoS where it includes the "mortal" followers(The Death Guard in this case) and the Daemonic stuff.

Skitarii didn't get their flavour removed more than Tempestus Scions being again Imperial Guard units.
Is like having "Codex: Space Marines Scouts". Just absurd.

Spoiler:

Codex: Adeptus Custodes, I'm looking at you

Actually, yeah. Skitarii did get their flavor removed.

Heard of a little thing called "Doctrina Imperatives"?

Pretty sure the Dev's comments in the Primaris release article have indicated we will get a Primaris codex. In that article they talked about collecting it as a "New army" with only primaris units.

I'd be very surprised if we saw the Primaris show up in the SM codex, other than a one-off elite unit you could add (kind of like Scions being used in Imperial Guard armies).

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Primaris and Death Guard are incomplete armies at the moment, so it's probably a bit early to judge their effectiveness as such.

Well if AoS is anything to go by all armies will only be 2 or 3 units anyways.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Primaris and Death Guard are incomplete armies at the moment, so it's probably a bit early to judge their effectiveness as such.

Well if AoS is anything to go by all armies will only be 2 or 3 units anyways.

The two armies from the AoS starter are indeed two-three units. Or your statement is a bold-faced lie, I'm not sure which.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Primaris and Death Guard are incomplete armies at the moment, so it's probably a bit early to judge their effectiveness as such.

Well if AoS is anything to go by all armies will only be 2 or 3 units anyways.

The two armies from the AoS starter are indeed two-three units. Or your statement is a bold-faced lie, I'm not sure which.

Bonesplitters 2 units savage on foot savage on pig head swap for more units.
IronJawz Black orcs, orcs on big pigs, and other orks "new ones"
daughters of khane 2 units
plauge rats censor bearers or monks and pult.
tzeench mortals/ beastmen/ beastmen on disk.
Ect ect.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 infinite_array wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I have a question for the people here, I keep hearing about a Primaris Codex.

Could it be that they will just include all of them with vanilla space marines for a normal Space Marine codex?

Pretty much killing 2 birds with 1 stone there. At least that's just my opinion on the matter.

That depends. Is this still the same GW that thought Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus needed their own separate books?

You read Index Imperium 2?

Cause they're the same thing now. Congrats. You won, Skitarii got their flavor removed so people like you can now stop crying about the whole "Waah, they were two books!" nonsense.

I would expect Primaris to be part of a generic Codex: Space Marines. Why? Because it would be a way for them to do a big update/release without having to do too much all at once.

I fully expect Death Guard to get their own book however, done up in the vein of "Disciples of Tzeentch" for AoS where it includes the "mortal" followers(The Death Guard in this case) and the Daemonic stuff.

Skitarii didn't get their flavour removed more than Tempestus Scions being again Imperial Guard units.
Is like having "Codex: Space Marines Scouts". Just absurd.

Spoiler:

Codex: Adeptus Custodes, I'm looking at you

Actually, yeah. Skitarii did get their flavor removed.

Heard of a little thing called "Doctrina Imperatives"?

Yeah, the Mass Effect Harvinger rippoff that existed only since... the 7th edition codex. Not a great loss, really. It isn't like they can't make that again when they release a Adeptus Mechanicus Codex.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Primaris and Death Guard are incomplete armies at the moment, so it's probably a bit early to judge their effectiveness as such.

Well if AoS is anything to go by all armies will only be 2 or 3 units anyways.

more specificly armies will consist of what they can put out in one go. we saw it with admech when admech and skitarri where split. so this is nothing new


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 infinite_array wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I'm actually hoping the Dreadnought will be decent at anti-horde duty. It looks like it has a super-assault cannon, a rotor cannon, and two storm bolters. That's more than enough for some serious horde shredding.

And we haven't seen the rules for the mini-missile launchers that the dread and tank have.

the tank we've seen some rumors that they're absicly just frag assault launchers IIRC. but yeah the dreadnought missiles. it could JUST be a missile launcher, but for all we know it'll fire 6 frag missiles. 6d6 shots would really clear out the hordes

I would prefer primaris and regular marines were split. I plan on taking exclusively primaris so i'd rather avoid the clutter and extra book cost for regular SM. Plus i'm not sure there is enough room for fluff, info on new founding primaris chapters and all the other stuff in one book. It would end up being one thick expensive tome...and i'd rather have two cheaper ones in this case especially since the primaris seem to function a bit differently.

The skitarii and cult mechanicus being merged is kind of understandable cause the skitarii didn't really have an HQ, or any bizarre units. I don't think much was gained fluff wise in keeping them seperate though. Those books were average in terms of art and fluff imo.

When do you guys think they will show us more new models/stuff? This week has been a bit boring for me, i'm not buying dark imperium until I get a better picture of where primaris and DG are going to end up.

The split doesn't make any sense for armies that have both standard Marines and Primaris Marines though. Especially since the big four have been depicted as having both.

What I am hoping for is for old units that are web-exclusive are phased out of the codex to make room for the new units. Since they will still have rules in the Index, it isn't a huge loss. Also, given that the unit datasheets are smaller now, the book can be condensed a little anyway.

I am really looking forward to the other types of new units. I want close combat Primaris Marines. Perhaps BA, DA, and SW will have exclusive types of Primaris Marines as well.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The split doesn't make any sense for armies that have both standard Marines and Primaris Marines though. Especially since the big four have been depicted as having both.

It makes sense in the context of not having one gargantuan codex. Think about it this way; instead of one combined codex for $50 we get a primaris for $30 and a vanilla marine for $30. Now for players who have both that kind-of sucks since they pay an extra $10, but all the players who are only using one side of things (which seems to be a significant number) don't have to spend and lug around a bunch of rules they don't use. GW could have put all four indexes in one book for $80 but I suspect that would be received poorly to say the least. Similarly they could have released each army as an individual codex, which may have been cheaper for some but a pain in the ass for many. Both ends of the extreme are bad so GW has to look for a happy medium.

You're right, make the people who are playing their army by the fluff pay twice for their codexes. Also, punish people with existing SM armies. That's a winning strategy.

my hope is that we get a space marine codex, if we get a Primaris specific codex I'll be a little worried that we WON'T get a vanilla Marine codex.

One of the things that I most loved about greenskins in fantasy what all the options of the army... and one of the things that I most dislike about AoS is the "mini factions" with 3-4 units.

So... mi vote goes to a combined Generic Space Marine Codex. Give me options! You can put a 300 pages codex for under 35€ GW, just do it!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
You're right, make the people who are playing their army by the fluff pay twice for their codexes. Also, punish people with existing SM armies. That's a winning strategy.

that o rconceviably simply not give non primaris codices any ink.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
One of the things that I most loved about greenskins in fantasy what all the options of the army... and one of the things that I most dislike about AoS is the "mini factions" with 3-4 units.

So... mi vote goes to a combined Generic Space Marine Codex. Give me options! You can put a 300 pages codex for under 35€ GW, just do it!

this, the "small codex faction with 5 units" is EXACTLY my fear of what 8th could do. a primaris marines codex instead of a space marine codex would expand that fear considerab ly

I'd be content with a hardback with both primarus and regular astartes. And then two softback smaller ones, one for primaris and the other for regular marines. The only question is do marines sell well enough for them to justify putting in that kind of effort. I'm not overly crazy about hardback books for gaming. And I definitely don't need two big ones on the tabletop (rulebook plus faction codex) I thought the Blood Bowl deathzone books were great.

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
You're right, make the people who are playing their army by the fluff pay twice for their codexes. Also, punish people with existing SM armies. That's a winning strategy.

that o rconceviably simply not give non primaris codices any ink.

I think as long as there are more being produced, they will still have a codex. And given that the majority of the SM line has been revamped in the last five years, I would be quite surprised if they discontinued it. And again, when nearly every depiction of the Primaris Marines has them fighting alongside standard Marines, I think it would be quite unfluffy for them to be in separate books.

And if we are heading into an age of micro-codexes, that will suck terribly.

As for the space of the SM codex and how big the book is, look at how much stuff is duplicated in the 2017 book. Practically every unit has duplicate fluff in two separate areas of the codex. That is something that could, conceivably go away.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
You're right, make the people who are playing their army by the fluff pay twice for their codexes. Also, punish people with existing SM armies. That's a winning strategy.

I think you misinterpreted me, since that is not at all what I said.

The thing is, unless they come up with a new race, they aren't introducing new armies. Any new kit(s) should be additions to existing ones which should be wrapped up with the updated codex for the army, since that army hasn't disappeared on an exploded planet.

The current "Index: Imperium 1" is a good size, and you could simply take out the BA/DA/DW/SW/GK/LotD portions and make it like the old Codex: Codex Marines.

The non-codex marines take up over 100 pages in that book. There are over 100 non-Codex unit profiles in that book. That doesn't count profiles and units for RG, UM, IF, CF, WS, and Salamanders.

If every codex unit and codex transport that exists right now gets a Primaris clone, that's 25 more profiles. So if GW comes up with a mix of 50 brand new units and vehicles, and adds 40 more pages of fluff to the current Index, we would get a book that's as big as the current Index: Codex Space Marines and Non-Codex Friends.

 Galas wrote:

Yeah, the Mass Effect Harvinger rippoff that existed only since... the 7th edition codex. Not a great loss, really. It isn't like they can't make that again when they release a Adeptus Mechanicus Codex.

Spoiler:

Damm Tyranid corrupted Mechanicus and Skitarii!

Find me an official Codex: Skitarii that existed before 7th edition.

And since the Skitarii got their own section in the Adeptus Mechanicus part of Index Imperium 2, yet were specifically denied their Doctrina Imperatives...

Thargrim wrote:The skitarii and cult mechanicus being merged is kind of understandable cause the skitarii didn't really have an HQ, or any bizarre units.

So? Shadowseers and Troupe Masters weren't HQs for Harlequins before.

Harlequins and Skitarii both had HQ-less lists. It would have taken literally nothing for them to add in a Skitarii HQ option built using the standard boxes.

I don't think much was gained fluff wise in keeping them seperate though. Those books were average in terms of art and fluff imo.

There was plenty gained fluff-wise in keeping them separated. One was the lunatic fringe with devoted hymnals(Canticles of the Omnissiah) giving them power and strength.
The other was the regimented, militarized side of the Cult Mechanicus which could have their "safety limitations" overridden by a Priest who wasn't exposed to dangers(Doctrina Imperatives granting both benefits AND downsides).

Additionally, for whatever reason we lost our 2W Alphas. Which is just dumb.