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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:That moment when the grav clamp on the back wont work on a redemptor but can carry a Leviathan...

It is a magna clamp (it is literally the same thing as the magna grapnel on a Furioso Dreadnought. Seriously, same bit in appearance). Apparently Redemptor Dreads are not magnetic.

GoatboyBeta wrote:So the stupid separation of transports is still in? Maybe a case could be made for why the SR cant carry the new larger dread, but not in the case of Primaris infantry Do GW really have so little confidence that a new SM tank will not sell without making it the only option for Primaris units?

Yup. It's in and they even doubled down on it by making the Repulsor incapable of carrying a regular Space Marine. Apparently Marneus Calgar has zero pull with his Chapter. The Marine that is over a head taller than him just looks down and says "Sorry, sir, you are too big."

'
"you must be this tall to ride"

BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:That moment when the grav clamp on the back wont work on a redemptor but can carry a Leviathan...

It is a magna clamp (it is literally the same thing as the magna grapnel on a Furioso Dreadnought. Seriously, same bit in appearance). Apparently Redemptor Dreads are not magnetic.

GoatboyBeta wrote:So the stupid separation of transports is still in? Maybe a case could be made for why the SR cant carry the new larger dread, but not in the case of Primaris infantry Do GW really have so little confidence that a new SM tank will not sell without making it the only option for Primaris units?

Yup. It's in and they even doubled down on it by making the Repulsor incapable of carrying a regular Space Marine. Apparently Marneus Calgar has zero pull with his Chapter. The Marine that is over a head taller than him just looks down and says "Sorry, sir, you are too big."

'
"you must be this tall to ride"

Or Cawl didn't have backward and forward compatability in mind when he designed the way MK X armour and the new vehicles interface via the Black Carapace.

"Brother Primaris, you being in this Rhino wastes our precious data link resources".
"Sergeant, there is still room for me even with the rest of your combat squad, it should be not matter. I can just sit down and..."
"Out of the question! What if we need to pick up more of our non-Primaris battle brothers?"
"Well I suppose if that time comes I can just get out before they do and walk the re... hey wait, Sergeant! Driver! Wait for me!"
"See you later you overgrown abomination!"

-1 Battle Later-

"So... Brother Primaris... Could we ride in your Repulsor?"
*Brother Primaris grins like a madman* "No, see you later suckers!" *Sunglasses slide down* "YEAH!!!"

the funny thing is that "you must be this tall to ride" might actually have the kernal of the reason there. there are size restrictions on things like amusement park rides etc for safety issues, a harness built for an adult might not fit a child, and vice versa.

BrianDavion wrote:
the funny thing is that "you must be this tall to ride" might actually have the kernal of the reason there. there are size restrictions on things like amusement park rides etc for safety issues, a harness built for an adult might not fit a child, and vice versa.

Yeah I'm not buying that The LR and SR can transport everything from scouts to Centurions and the DW Corvus Blackstar can carry bikes. But not Primaris of any kind? Meanwhile the Repulsor cant carry anything but Primaris? In general I've been impressed by the roll out of the new Marines. The models look great and what little background we have is decent enough. But while this transport issue is easily house ruled, it still leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

The Repulsor only allows <Chapter> Primaris Space Marines. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It is just so they can sell more models. Except I won't be buying any Repulsors as a result.

Good, im glad they cant just go in whatever they like, barring narrative games.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

The Repulsor only allows <Chapter> Primaris Space Marines. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It is just so they can sell more models. Except I won't be buying any Repulsors as a result.

That's the question I am asking - would the Primaris marines be too powerful with access to the full Marine transport elements? Would any Marine units be especially likely to use the Repulsor over the Primaris marines?

I am still anticipating a Codex: Primaris Marines tbh.

Is just me, or Imperial Fists Primaris Reivers with grapel hooks are OP in Cities of Death battles?

 Galas wrote:
Is just me, or Imperial Fists Primaris Reivers with grapel hooks are OP in Cities of Death battles?

Well its certainly one way to get SM players to buy more terrain that's for sure Using them on the Ferro-Giant Alphus board that GW built with a truckload of Sector Mechanicus sets would be fun/evil.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

The Repulsor only allows <Chapter> Primaris Space Marines. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It is just so they can sell more models. Except I won't be buying any Repulsors as a result.

That's the question I am asking - would the Primaris marines be too powerful with access to the full Marine transport elements? Would any Marine units be especially likely to use the Repulsor over the Primaris marines?

I am still anticipating a Codex: Primaris Marines tbh.

I doubt they would be too powerful. They have long enough range in most of their weapons that they really don't even need transports. So the only real issue comes with trying to combine units of both in one transport. Putting a Chapter Master with some Hellblasters and a Primaris Lieutenant in a Drop Pod seemed like it would be a great combination, but it wasn't possible since Primaris Marines can't ride in pods. Now the reverse is true, a Chapter Master (of which are all regular Marines) can't ride in a Repulsor. Instead, now I will be looking at doing a Command Squad with Combi-Plasmas, a regular Marine Lieutenant, and my Chapter Master in a Pod or Rhino. Sale lost.

So I really don't think this was at all related to balance. I think it was 100% a money issue.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

They don't care about balance issues. It's all about forcing sales of a new land raider sized vehicle on space marine players.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

They don't care about balance issues. It's all about forcing sales of a new land raider sized vehicle on space marine players.

But then logically the Repulsor should be able to carry Small Marines as well as Big Marines - lots more sales then?

I didn't say it was a smart strategy or well executed. It's still the strategy tho imo.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

The Repulsor only allows <Chapter> Primaris Space Marines. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It is just so they can sell more models. Except I won't be buying any Repulsors as a result.

Or is it that if a Rhino can carry 5 primaris and a repulsor 10 primaris then by default you'd say that it should carry 20 SM (or 10 terminators), but then you'd realize that would be insane, right?

Daedalus81 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

The Repulsor only allows <Chapter> Primaris Space Marines. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It is just so they can sell more models. Except I won't be buying any Repulsors as a result.

Or is it that if a Rhino can carry 5 primaris and a repulsor 10 primaris then by default you'd say that it should carry 20 SM (or 10 terminators), but then you'd realize that would be insane, right?

Despite what GW is trying to tell us, the game can be more nuanced than that. A Primaris is not twice as bulky as a space marine especially when factoring in the size of a land raider. They should take up the same space as they are on the same base. The only difference is that gravis armored models should count as 2.

There is no logical reason to disallow the two types of units from using transports in the SAME codex, other than $$$.

Yeah, Primaris are bigger than marines. Logically this would entail they need more transport space.
One can assume that Rhinos aren't designed to accommodate their size and equipment.

Then make a Rhino carry 7 Primaris, not 0 and force us to buy a sub-par new transport that costs 200+pts if we want mobile Primaris Marines.

I gotta wonder what kind of head injury Guilliman suffered to think that his new marines shouldn't use drop pods or standard line transports. I guess Sales team > 10,000 years of Codex Astartes battle tactics.

 Kirasu wrote:


Despite what GW is trying to tell us, the game can be more nuanced than that. A Primaris is not twice as bulky as a space marine especially when factoring in the size of a land raider. They should take up the same space as they are on the same base. The only difference is that gravis armored models should count as 2.

There is no logical reason to disallow the two types of units from using transports in the SAME codex, other than $$$.

"You can fit the same amount of primaris as regular marines? I thought they were bigger. Stupid GW." Ad nauseum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kirasu wrote:
Then make a Rhino carry 7 Primaris, not 0 and force us to buy a sub-par new transport that costs 200+pts if we want mobile Primaris Marines.

I gotta wonder what kind of head injury Guilliman suffered to think that his new marines shouldn't use drop pods or standard line transports. I guess Sales team > 10,000 years of Codex Astartes battle tactics.

"GW designed primaris so that I can't fit a whole squad in a rhino. So stupid".

Daedalus81 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is there a balance issue that they are considering with the transport elements?

So for instance it makes little sense that marines from different Chapters or Sisters for different Orders are not able to get into each others transports. However for game balance its likely needed

Is the Repulsor the same?

The Repulsor only allows <Chapter> Primaris Space Marines. There is no rhyme or reason to it. It is just so they can sell more models. Except I won't be buying any Repulsors as a result.

Or is it that if a Rhino can carry 5 primaris and a repulsor 10 primaris then by default you'd say that it should carry 20 SM (or 10 terminators), but then you'd realize that would be insane, right?

Is the Spartan "insane"? The Crusader? There are plenty of high-capacity transports out there and letting Marines ride in one more would hardly break the game, and I expect most people would be happy with Crusader-level Normie Marine capacity even if it "should" carry more.

 Yodhrin wrote:


Is the Spartan "insane"? The Crusader? There are plenty of high-capacity transports out there and letting Marines ride in one more would hardly break the game, and I expect most people would be happy with Crusader-level Normie Marine capacity even if it "should" carry more.

A spartan is 500 points and a LoW slot.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, Primaris are bigger than marines. Logically this would entail they need more transport space.
One can assume that Rhinos aren't designed to accommodate their size and equipment.

If we assume that is true, then why can't Space Marines go in a Repulsor?

You guys know damn well if Primaris Marines could fit in regular vehicles you'd all be proclaiming that the regular Marines would be phased out and that would be your proof.

Coming next

 theharrower wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, Primaris are bigger than marines. Logically this would entail they need more transport space.
One can assume that Rhinos aren't designed to accommodate their size and equipment.

If we assume that is true, then why can't Space Marines go in a Repulsor?

Incompatible equipment, too big for them to use, etc.
If a child tries to drive a car, would his feet reach the pedals?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Coming next

thicc

I think Primaris not fitting into Rhinos/Razorbacks would've been fine. They sort of have a tradition of not being able to carry slightly larger stuff.

But Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Space Wolf & Death Watch Flyers, etc.. that can transport Terminators of all varieties, Wulfen, Centurions, even Bikes, etc.. . seems odd. Even more so because (to my knowledge) there isn't even an attempt at some background-justification for that?

Where is the line? Can Primaris board a Thunderhawk? Or are they "incompatible"? Can Primaris board a Space Marine Chapter's battle barge, or do they need their own space fleet?

Incompatible equipment, too big for them to use, etc.
If a child tries to drive a car, would his feet reach the pedals?

So many funny mental images.

If you could put Small Marines in the Repulsor what would work best. What would be the best Big Marine to go in them in comparison.

I would assume Big Marine Drop Pods will be in their own Codex.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 theharrower wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, Primaris are bigger than marines. Logically this would entail they need more transport space.
One can assume that Rhinos aren't designed to accommodate their size and equipment.

If we assume that is true, then why can't Space Marines go in a Repulsor?

Incompatible equipment, too big for them to use, etc.
If a child tries to drive a car, would his feet reach the pedals?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Coming next

thicc

Women who are five feet tall can still drive the same car as a 6 foot tall man. Primaris marines aren't that much bigger and normal marines aren't children. Military vehicles are supposed to be designed to be utilitarian.

It's not difficult to come up with fluff justifications for why the transport situation is what it is, but even then it's still a fluff explanation for what is most likely a business descision.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
It's not difficult to come up with fluff justifications for why the transport situation is what it is, but even then it's still a fluff explanation for what is most likely a business descision.

Exactly this. Make up all the BS fluff reasons you want. This is a business decision pure and simple.