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 warboss wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Our models haven't "technically" been invalidated. If you had read the article it even says if your unit isn't in the codex, it's because the codex shows new units and models AVAILABLE. Got everytbing else, use your index.

Sure this is annoying considering I didn't want to buy Imperium 1, and purposely waited for the Brand New book, but I hold the have thought it would be that easy! Kahn still rides. My awesome libby on a bike with actual psychic hood is still playable. We just need to carry around more stuff to do so.

My Honour Guard, Rhino Primaris, and Chapter Champion necessitate me bringing the Index with. Not a huge deal by any means though.

Isn't the honor guard in the codex? Did they nerf the options list?

They have to take an Axe if using the Codex version. All of my Honour Guard were built using 7E rules, so they have other Power Weapons. I have two Axe Honour Guard, so if I have the points, I will swap out the Maul Honour Guard for Axe Honour Guard anyway.

Edit: In fact, I went ahead and changed them to axes in my list. I don't need the extra strength when I have two guys with 5 attacks swinging Power Fists.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Sales will determine the future. If people keep buying vanilla marines then they will continue, if people totally abandon vanilla marines for primaris then they will be phased out relatively quickly. Obviously the result will be somewhere in-between, so we'll see what it ends up as.

See this isn't realistic to expect of a company worrying about their future bottom line. They committed to this mess. My guess, so far the primaris stuff is VERY underwhelming on the table, so initial sales will look good then drop into the toilet at which time I expect a new marine codex that drops their points and probably makes them even better in order to spike sales again while not really giving the old marine the same attention which over time will cause them to wither on the vine.

I fully expect a marine codex every 2 years going forward. I mean we had barely 2 years between the 6th and 7th codexes and now less then that for the 8th. With each update I fully expect the new guys to creep ahead in rules edge as needed to boost sales.

It isn't realistic for a company to produce more of what's selling well, because of looking after it's bottom line.

I don't really have a response since that statement speaks for itself.

Sure if you misunderstand what I was saying. If you think they won't alter rules to push models if they are in the way then your kidding yourself.

So GW uses rules to push models, which is why the new models are widely considered weaker than the ones people already have.

Again, that comes across as rather silly.

You really do misrepresenting my point. They are not good currently, but expect them to get wildly better in game as needed to kerep their sales higher then the originals. It's not a hard concept to grasp if you actually pay attention.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I can understand GW not making rules to parts that they literally dont' sell. But... why ban conversions that you can do with their kits?

Because Chapterhouse.

This is why GW kits are slowly having fewer and fewer options, and why the kits are only compatible with themselves (look at the new Primaris kits - can't mix'n'match those with any regular Marine thing*).

Many many years ago the old school players wished upon a star that GW would release kits for things that had long gone without them. Then Chapterhouse happened. Then GW answered our wishes, but in the opposite way. Rather than releasing kits for things that had rules, they removed the things that didn't have kits and only made rules for things that had kits. A real case of "Be careful what you wish for!".







*'Cept maybe shoulder pads/heads because GW isn't stupid..

It's beyond chapter house at this point. They don't even want you borrowing that combi weapon from the tac kit to put on the assault sergant. At this point it's cracking down on ebay bits dealers. I have spent hundreds on ebay for my conversions and 2 years ago I started stocking up on anything I might find useful for the future since all those dealers stock was not getting replenished.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nerdfest09 wrote:
I'm still going to hold out and keep my fingers crossed for some kind of schism along the way to at least put a flood wall up in front of the tide of 'Normal Marines are dead' which will give some hope to those who actually don't like or intend to use any of the new Primaris models, it will keep us valid even if they don't release new bigger shiny kits for them, and it will still give GW the option of making those upgrade kits for Imperial Fists, Raven Guard etc if they wanted to test the cash flow success of adding them to the 'normal' marine range.

Mini Marines forever!

Your guys won't be invalid, if anything their collector value will increase if they can the line. I regularly play guys that use rtb1 beakies and those things are fething tiny, but it doesn't matter on the table.

Auxiliary grenade launcher is totally legit!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I don't need the extra strength when I have two guys with 5 attacks swinging Power Fists.

And one of those fists should be doing 3 damage per swing, with no penalty to hit (at S8, 2+ to hit... with rerolls to hit and wound).

If you aren't punching out 10 - 15 wounds per phase with that character, youre probably not doing it right.

 warboss wrote:
Or they could just release and charge for the full priced electronic version (iirc they don't discount the electronic versions at least on apple devices) and then have the community find the mistakes for them that they missed. After a week or two, they then print the physical codex*. That might however make other folks angry who don't want to want for dead tree versions immediately despite them getting a better product in the end.

* and then take another week to make and proof those changes in a rush job, or take 2 to do it right, and wait a month for their printer to print it and then another 1-2 months for their shipment to arrive, or print domestically and pay twice as much so printing and delivery will only take a few weeks while fans still gripe about delays

Malifice wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I don't need the extra strength when I have two guys with 5 attacks swinging Power Fists.

And one of those fists should be doing 3 damage per swing, with no penalty to hit (at S8, 2+ to hit... with rerolls to hit and wound).

If you aren't punching out 10 - 15 wounds per phase with that character, youre probably not doing it right.

That was exactly my thought. Between Pedro, the HG, the LT, Champ, and Apothecary, it will be 10 Str 8 AP-3 attacks (5 with 3+, 5 with 2+), 6 Str 5 AP-2, 5 Str 4 AP-3, and 5 Str 4 AP-0 attacks, rerolling all misses and wound rolls of 1. My friend called this the Good Squad even before the LT became a possibility (I ran it with another set of HG instead of the LT and Champ). They will wreck just about anything on the charge. Even better if 10 enemy models are nearby. Too bad they can't combine into one unit, I would fire up the 3CP Strategem that lets them fight again in the fight phase.

I wish the LT could get a Storm Shield though. Would make him more survivable.

WTF.. I just read basically 3 pages of people all basically saying they have no reading/comprehension skills. The options people are claiming have completely disappeared are still in the index. You can still pair that stuff with the things in the codex. FFS people learn to read!!!

I get outrage at stuff being gone. I played Deathskullz and watched my lootas turn into a slowed Devastator wannabe unit and my looted Demolisher become a watered down battlewagon. People who had old IG Lts or Commissars on horseback, boarboys, Doomrider, etc.. all know how bad it sucks for stuff to be Squatted. BUT THAT ISN"T WHAT HAS HAPPENED. The wargear section still has the combi-weapons in the index and.. again.. the FAQ clearly says you can use the index for those items. Anyone assuming this means anything other than GW is lazy is speculating and crying wolf with no real grounds to stand on.

Moreover, if they DO remove something, take another lesson from us Ork players.. they will bring it back. Shokk attack guns being a prime example along with some of the artillery etc as the most basic of examples.

 MLaw wrote:
WTF.. I just read basically 3 pages of people all basically saying they have no reading/comprehension skills. The options people are claiming have completely disappeared are still in the index. You can still pair that stuff with the things in the codex. FFS people learn to read!!!

I get outrage at stuff being gone. I played Deathskullz and watched my lootas turn into a slowed Devastator wannabe unit and my looted Demolisher become a watered down battlewagon. People who had old IG Lts or Commissars on horseback, boarboys, Doomrider, etc.. all know how bad it sucks for stuff to be Squatted. BUT THAT ISN"T WHAT HAS HAPPENED. The wargear section still has the combi-weapons in the index and.. again.. the FAQ clearly says you can use the index for those items. Anyone assuming this means anything other than GW is lazy is speculating and crying wolf with no real grounds to stand on.

Moreover, if they DO remove something, take another lesson from us Ork players.. they will bring it back. Shokk attack guns being a prime example along with some of the artillery etc as the most basic of examples.

Theres just one issue with your interpretation - the Indexes arent here to stay. At some point, they *will* be replaced. And the codexes are meant to be the replacement. So once all the factions have a codex, the Index will most likely go OOP. Its a first step to invalidate your models. And its horribly inconvenient as well, especially when rules massively differ between Index and Codex. The librarian is a good example: Sure, you *can* use a bike-lib. But youre going to be missing out on the new psychic powers. The prices wont match up. Stuff like that.

Personally, I think Im just going to skip buying the codex. The only new stuff is primaris anyway, and I loathe the primaris stuff, so meh.

overtyrant wrote:

ERJAK wrote:


Unpopular opinion but...feth conversions. I absolutely HATED that the best equipment setups for thing like razorbacks was something I had to carve up a bunch of extra bitz I had to buy on ebay for.

What they should have done is put the goddam options in the fething box in the first place. They knew what equipment it would have, is making a lasplas really that hard for them?

Completely agree, if they don't have an option in the kit then it should not be an option in the Codex. I like the direction they are moving towards.

Your opinions fill me with so much rage, trying to respond whilst complying with Rule #1 is difficult.

For a lot of people part of the hobby is building cool models, out of loads of parts, be that kitbashing GW stuff or using scratch built or 3rd party parts. I understand the urge to squash some of the 3rd party market, but not so much the ebay bits market - ebay bits have already been sold by GW. For me 40k is often about building something cool (Blanchitsu style) out of my bitz box collected and amassed over 2 decades, and then finding rules that fit it so I can play it down at a local friendly club.

If 40k becomes about building kits direct from the box and playing my opponent's identical models, then I'm fully out.

I wouldn't even mind if some of the best loadouts ruleswise (a la Las/Plas of old) were only available by kitbash... Actually reward players who go full hobby - you want the most competitive rules? Get your hobby time on! I appreciate that this is not ideal and is unreasonable, but think it's no more unreasonable than your stance.

Some of the most recent Ork kits spring to mind, particularly Lootas and Burnas (not that recent, granted) which actively pointed out that they had extra bits in just to help lend flavour to other kits, and that the kit could make both Lootas AND Burnas if you use your spare bits from boyz boxes. That approach, plus some flexible rule options that doesn't place arbitrary restrictions on which dudes can carry which thing based purely on how they come off the sprue, ignoring any fluff reasons, is properly supporting the hobby, and the customers (us). Arbitrary rules aimed at crushing the aftermarket/3rd party industry for the benefit of the shareholders and at the expense of legitimate kitbashers/hobbyists do not support the hobby or the customers.

There... I'm proud of myself for having got to the end of this post without calling you a pair of selfish douchebags.

 Tyr13 wrote:
Personally, I think Im just going to skip buying the codex. The only new stuff is primaris anyway, and I loathe the primaris stuff, so meh.

There's the basic lieutenant being added, which is actually a niche I like available since I often play small games, but, yeah, I'm very curious what's substantially been improved.

As someone wholly uninterested in Primaris dudes, I'm seeing:
-that juicy cheap command choice for lesser character models (something I'm actually interested in)
-chapter tactics (already shown by GW... one special rule for my army)
-chapter relics (again, maybe a couple instances in my army)
-things that are in the datacard box if I want them
-a whole bunch of restrictions that would force me to use another book
-maybe some points reshuffling, but didn't GW say they were going to be posting points as the game rebalances?


I'm not really seeing much of a reason to get the book.

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:

If 40k becomes about building kits direct from the box and playing my opponent's identical models, then I'm fully out.

I dont recall any current mainstream war game that involves not building kits directly out of the box.

 Tyr13 wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
WTF.. I just read basically 3 pages of people all basically saying they have no reading/comprehension skills. The options people are claiming have completely disappeared are still in the index. You can still pair that stuff with the things in the codex. FFS people learn to read!!!

I get outrage at stuff being gone. I played Deathskullz and watched my lootas turn into a slowed Devastator wannabe unit and my looted Demolisher become a watered down battlewagon. People who had old IG Lts or Commissars on horseback, boarboys, Doomrider, etc.. all know how bad it sucks for stuff to be Squatted. BUT THAT ISN"T WHAT HAS HAPPENED. The wargear section still has the combi-weapons in the index and.. again.. the FAQ clearly says you can use the index for those items. Anyone assuming this means anything other than GW is lazy is speculating and crying wolf with no real grounds to stand on.

Moreover, if they DO remove something, take another lesson from us Ork players.. they will bring it back. Shokk attack guns being a prime example along with some of the artillery etc as the most basic of examples.

Theres just one issue with your interpretation - the Indexes arent here to stay. At some point, they *will* be replaced. And the codexes are meant to be the replacement. So once all the factions have a codex, the Index will most likely go OOP. Its a first step to invalidate your models. And its horribly inconvenient as well, especially when rules massively differ between Index and Codex. The librarian is a good example: Sure, you *can* use a bike-lib. But youre going to be missing out on the new psychic powers. The prices wont match up. Stuff like that.

Personally, I think Im just going to skip buying the codex. The only new stuff is primaris anyway, and I loathe the primaris stuff, so meh.

This is completely wrong. They are setting it up to be ran by datasheets. Datasheets do not require an index, codex, or anything. The datasheets will come from official box sets only. The index entries are just serving as a holdover for the datasheets. They go out of their way to explain this and again everyone demonstrates that they are unwilling to read or just don't understand what GW is saying. The psychic powers in the codex will still apply as will all the other army specific goodies. The unit entry is literally just lifted out of the index.

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:

For a lot of people part of the hobby is building cool models, out of loads of parts, be that kitbashing GW stuff or using scratch built or 3rd party parts. I understand the urge to squash some of the 3rd party market, but not so much the ebay bits market - ebay bits have already been sold by GW. For me 40k is often about building something cool (Blanchitsu style) out of my bitz box collected and amassed over 2 decades, and then finding rules that fit it so I can play it down at a local friendly club.

If 40k becomes about building kits direct from the box and playing my opponent's identical models, then I'm fully out.

Yeah, pretty much this.

40K conversion scene is huge, I really don't understand why GW tries to fight it rather than embrace it. If they're worried about 3rd party bit sellers then fight them proper way: by outproducing them. GW already sells upgrade sprues for many marine chapters, it would be easy for them to make similar upgrade sprues for different armies containing the more niche gear options. I'd imagine 'Relics of Adeptus Astartes' sprue would be great seller!

 Crimson wrote:

 warboss wrote:


Isn't the honor guard in the codex? Did they nerf the options list?

Apparently the options are gone. It's axe and that's it.

That sucks. I was thinking about running my two primaris lieutenant conversions as an honor guard but the power sword disqualifies that now.

 Crimson wrote:

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:

For a lot of people part of the hobby is building cool models, out of loads of parts, be that kitbashing GW stuff or using scratch built or 3rd party parts. I understand the urge to squash some of the 3rd party market, but not so much the ebay bits market - ebay bits have already been sold by GW. For me 40k is often about building something cool (Blanchitsu style) out of my bitz box collected and amassed over 2 decades, and then finding rules that fit it so I can play it down at a local friendly club.

If 40k becomes about building kits direct from the box and playing my opponent's identical models, then I'm fully out.

Yeah, pretty much this.

40K conversion scene is huge, I really don't understand why GW tries to fight it rather than embrace it. If they're worried about 3rd party bit sellers then fight them proper way: by outproducing them. GW already sells upgrade sprues for many marine chapters, it would be easy for them to make similar upgrade sprues for different armies containing the more niche gear options. I'd imagine 'Relics of Adeptus Astartes' sprue would be great seller!

eh, they will still convert anyway rules or no rules. I'm not sure this thread is the one we should be using for this discussion however.

 warboss wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 warboss wrote:


Isn't the honor guard in the codex? Did they nerf the options list?

Apparently the options are gone. It's axe and that's it.

That sucks. I was thinking about running my two primaris lieutenant conversions as an honor guard but the power sword disqualifies that now.

If you have the Index you can still use the other variants. Or use those Primaris LTs as regular LTs. 10 pts less base with better weapon options (Pistols, Combi-Weapons, and Melee Weapons).

 MLaw wrote:
WTF.. I just read basically 3 pages of people all basically saying they have no reading/comprehension skills. The options people are claiming have completely disappeared are still in the index. You can still pair that stuff with the things in the codex. FFS people learn to read!!!

Please take your own advice before posting superficial drivel like this. We just replaced an edition where people didn't like having to use a half dozen books to have the complete rules for their force and your solution one month into the new edition is to buy and use multiple books to field figures they own. I don't own the index and don't plan to pay an additional $25 to get options for units that GW still sells or the combinations that have been legal for 20 years. No one is saying you can't field them period and the quote proving that was posted two pages earlier; they're saying you just can't do it with the codec unlike the last 5 or so codices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Or they could just release and charge for the full priced electronic version (iirc they don't discount the electronic versions at least on apple devices) and then have the community find the mistakes for them that they missed. After a week or two, they then print the physical codex*. That might however make other folks angry who don't want to want for dead tree versions immediately despite them getting a better product in the end.

* and then take another week to make and proof those changes in a rush job, or take 2 to do it right, and wait a month for their printer to print it and then another 1-2 months for their shipment to arrive, or print domestically and pay twice as much so printing and delivery will only take a few weeks while fans still gripe about delays

Yup. I mentioned that in the last sentence. Ymmv but imo it's worth a two month delay to get a better product assuming GW doesn't try to invalidate it every two years as was the case last edition.

If they are gonna erase the hability to take weapons that aren't directly in the same box as the unit... what the heck I'm donna do with all those heavy weapons of my Devastators?!
Is GW making me pay for a all of those bitz that I literally can't use?

 Galas wrote:
If they are gonna erase the hability to take weapons that aren't directly in the same box as the unit... what the heck I'm donna do with all those heavy weapons of my Devastators?!
Is GW making me pay for a all of those bitz that I literally can't use?

Tacticals can only take ML?! man id be cheesed.

but i highly doubt they would do that.

 MLaw wrote:

This is completely wrong. They are setting it up to be ran by datasheets. Datasheets do not require an index, codex, or anything. The datasheets will come from official box sets only. The index entries are just serving as a holdover for the datasheets. They go out of their way to explain this and again everyone demonstrates that they are unwilling to read or just don't understand what GW is saying.

So your solution is to buy more models to get datasheets for models you already have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

If you have the Index you can still use the other variants. Or use those Primaris LTs as regular LTs. 10 pts less base with better weapon options (Pistols, Combi-Weapons, and Melee Weapons).

Yeah, I was looking at those. I liked the honor guard because I thought the 2+ artifice armor better reflected the supposedly superior Mk X armor. I don't have the index and with the release of the game and codec I don't expect to play often. I might just wait and see if they'll gut the space wolves too since they previously were the pinnacle of customization and have lots of options on their kits.

Please can people make up their minds whether they're mad that the Index they paid for is being replaced after a month or mad that they'll actually need to refer to that Index for legacy options not included in the Codex.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Spoiler:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Sales will determine the future. If people keep buying vanilla marines then they will continue, if people totally abandon vanilla marines for primaris then they will be phased out relatively quickly. Obviously the result will be somewhere in-between, so we'll see what it ends up as.

See this isn't realistic to expect of a company worrying about their future bottom line. They committed to this mess. My guess, so far the primaris stuff is VERY underwhelming on the table, so initial sales will look good then drop into the toilet at which time I expect a new marine codex that drops their points and probably makes them even better in order to spike sales again while not really giving the old marine the same attention which over time will cause them to wither on the vine.

I fully expect a marine codex every 2 years going forward. I mean we had barely 2 years between the 6th and 7th codexes and now less then that for the 8th. With each update I fully expect the new guys to creep ahead in rules edge as needed to boost sales.

It isn't realistic for a company to produce more of what's selling well, because of looking after it's bottom line.

I don't really have a response since that statement speaks for itself.

Sure if you misunderstand what I was saying. If you think they won't alter rules to push models if they are in the way then your kidding yourself.

So GW uses rules to push models, which is why the new models are widely considered weaker than the ones people already have.

Again, that comes across as rather silly.

You really do misrepresenting my point. They are not good currently, but expect them to get wildly better in game as needed to kerep their sales higher then the originals. It's not a hard concept to grasp if you actually pay attention.

So there is no evidence to prove I'm somehow wrong, but there will be! How silly of me to suggest that if people keep buying a product, GW will keep selling it!

Thommy H wrote:
Please can people make up their minds whether they're mad that the Index they paid for is being replaced after a month or mad that they'll actually need to refer to that Index for legacy options not included in the Codex.

The latter.

Thommy H wrote:
Please can people make up their minds whether they're mad that the Index they paid for is being replaced after a month or mad that they'll actually need to refer to that Index for legacy options not included in the Codex.

Look I'm all for pointing out excessive negativity, but people wanting all the rules for a faction contained in a single book is not an unreasonable request.

 warboss wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
WTF.. I just read basically 3 pages of people all basically saying they have no reading/comprehension skills. The options people are claiming have completely disappeared are still in the index. You can still pair that stuff with the things in the codex. FFS people learn to read!!!

Please take your own advice before posting superficial drivel like this. We just replaced an edition where people didn't like having to use a half dozen books to have the complete rules for their force and your solution one month into the new edition is to buy and use multiple books to field figures they own. I don't own the index and don't plan to pay an additional $25 to get options for units that GW still sells or the combinations that have been legal for 20 years. No one is saying you can't field them period and the quote proving that was posted two pages earlier; they're saying you just can't do it with the codec unlike the last 5 or so codices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Or they could just release and charge for the full priced electronic version (iirc they don't discount the electronic versions at least on apple devices) and then have the community find the mistakes for them that they missed. After a week or two, they then print the physical codex*. That might however make other folks angry who don't want to want for dead tree versions immediately despite them getting a better product in the end.

* and then take another week to make and proof those changes in a rush job, or take 2 to do it right, and wait a month for their printer to print it and then another 1-2 months for their shipment to arrive, or print domestically and pay twice as much so printing and delivery will only take a few weeks while fans still gripe about delays

Yup. I mentioned that in the last sentence. Ymmv but imo it's worth a two month delay to get a better product assuming GW doesn't try to invalidate it every two years as was the case last edition.

I am fairly certain that is NOT how it works.

Follow this guide:
Is the unit/ thing in the Index? Yes
Is the unit/ thing in the Codex? No
Use the Index rules

Is the unit/ thing in the Index? Yes
Is the unit/ thing in the Codex? Yes
Use the Codex rules

If the Codex has rules for existing things in the Index, in this case Honor Guard, you use the NEW rules in the codex. They made a statement about using the new/ revised rules with new releases. The Index was for cross over, nothing more.

The reasoning behind the Honor Guard change is because the EXISTING models for them have the wargear listed in the Codex that just dropped. This means they dont want to have things without proper representation that you can buy + probably not going to make that ultra honor guard plastic anytime soon. Alternatively, they could end up making a new honor guard unit with a model release have those rules updated, just like they do with AoS.

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:

I am fairly certain that is NOT how it works.

Follow this guide:
Is the unit/ thing in the Index? Yes
Is the unit/ thing in the Codex? No
Use the Index rules

Is the unit/ thing in the Index? Yes
Is the unit/ thing in the Codex? Yes
Use the Codex rules

If the Codex has rules for existing things in the Index, in this case Honor Guard, you use the NEW rules in the codex. They made a statement about using the new/ revised rules with new releases. The Index was for cross over, nothing more.

Fairly certain?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
From the FAQ
so a Libby on a bike would use the point from the codex.
more fething confusion

 warboss wrote:

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:

I am fairly certain that is NOT how it works.

Follow this guide:
Is the unit/ thing in the Index? Yes
Is the unit/ thing in the Codex? No
Use the Index rules

Is the unit/ thing in the Index? Yes
Is the unit/ thing in the Codex? Yes
Use the Codex rules

If the Codex has rules for existing things in the Index, in this case Honor Guard, you use the NEW rules in the codex. They made a statement about using the new/ revised rules with new releases. The Index was for cross over, nothing more.

Fairly certain?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?
While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army.

"the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range"
This to me supersedes all else. It is revised rules for the CURRENT 40k range. But nothings going to stop you from using made up, or obsolete rules in a friendly setting. Hell, play with your models like army men if you want.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
From the FAQ
so a Libby on a bike would use the point from the codex.
more fething confusion

Well in this case the most recent entry for Librarian on bike would be its cost listed in the index without wargear. Then you add in the wargear cost from the codex. There is a slight method to the madness.

Galas wrote:If they are gonna erase the hability to take weapons that aren't directly in the same box as the unit... what the heck I'm donna do with all those heavy weapons of my Devastators?!
Is GW making me pay for a all of those bitz that I literally can't use?

warboss wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
WTF.. I just read basically 3 pages of people all basically saying they have no reading/comprehension skills. The options people are claiming have completely disappeared are still in the index. You can still pair that stuff with the things in the codex. FFS people learn to read!!!

Please take your own advice before posting superficial drivel like this. We just replaced an edition where people didn't like having to use a half dozen books to have the complete rules for their force and your solution one month into the new edition is to buy and use multiple books to field figures they own. I don't own the index and don't plan to pay an additional $25 to get options for units that GW still sells or the combinations that have been legal for 20 years. No one is saying you can't field them period and the quote proving that was posted two pages earlier; they're saying you just can't do it with the codec unlike the last 5 or so codices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Or they could just release and charge for the full priced electronic version (iirc they don't discount the electronic versions at least on apple devices) and then have the community find the mistakes for them that they missed. After a week or two, they then print the physical codex*. That might however make other folks angry who don't want to want for dead tree versions immediately despite them getting a better product in the end.

* and then take another week to make and proof those changes in a rush job, or take 2 to do it right, and wait a month for their printer to print it and then another 1-2 months for their shipment to arrive, or print domestically and pay twice as much so printing and delivery will only take a few weeks while fans still gripe about delays

Yup. I mentioned that in the last sentence. Ymmv but imo it's worth a two month delay to get a better product assuming GW doesn't try to invalidate it every two years as was the case last edition.

I multiquoted.. the post literally right under is the type of post I'm responding to. You say that nobody is claiming you can't take those options when that is exactly what people are claiming.. LITERALLY RIGHT AFTER YOU SAID THAT. If you understand how the options work then I am not talking to you. I am talking to the people who are convincing themselves and others that there is absolutely no way to use those old models. PERIOD. Is it inconvenient? YES.. I have said that repeatedly. Especially given the price of the new codex. However, the options do exist.

As to having to re-buy boxes to get datasheets.. Uh.. no, if you don't think people will be selling them on ebay, you're kidding yourself. There may be other ways of getting them as well later.. GW is in somewhat uncharted waters. I'm not defending them in any way.. as I think this is probably the most complicated way they could have done this.. and I think it will bite them in the ass down the road. However, I fully understand what they have done and how to use my models given the guidelines they've laid out. I see people posting who don't seem to and I'm trying to make sure they understand that their old models are most likely still usable (I admittedly don't know about all options and my Orks lost some units in their index so I know there might be legitimate gaps). Again, if you get it.. then hey.. I'm not talking about you.. or really even to you..

If my post isn't negative enough towards GW.. sorry.. I'm normally full of discontent for them.. and I'm still pissed about the pricing on just about everything related to new Space Marine releases.. but some people are going way overboard.