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This is the standard setup I have been running at my local shop. It seems to fair well against any army. The Vanguard detachment is a fun and nasty mix of hth units. I could just drop the 2 Death Cul, but it has been handy at times to let them run off in a different direction and tie up other units (plus the models are cool).
Basically getting the Immolator in firing range and then have the girls pop out and lay down fire or hold an objective (canonness rides along as well). I find the heavy bolters to be a more reliable source of damage over the flamer. Doms and Celestine are pretty obvious.
The Seraphim squad is really the biggest challenge. They always get targeted first. Even being near Celestine for AoF, they do not survive hth well at all, and if anyone shoots at them.. their numbers go down quick. I suppose it is a great use of points for such a big threat.
At times I have dropped the Seraphim Squad and add heavy bolters to the BSS to increase firepower, its a toss up. But over well set up preforms well and wins most games.
You could trade in your Superior upgrades for a naked BSS and the Battalion CPs... I suspect I'd wish for a few more at 1500 points. If you aren't going to use those BSS to chase a Battalion, you could reorganize them into a stormbolter Dominion squad and Vanguard them into optimum range, trailing a couple of members for the Canoness reroll.
I never really get the Canonness in to hth. They are for the BSS tand Immolators to re roll the 1s. If they are in hth, then I let the enemy get too close.
I have before dropped the Seraphim squad and added another BSS which does give the Battalion build out to get more CP.
But those Seraphims, people hate them, threat vs CP.
Back to Tactics... apologies if this has been previously discussed, but I'm toying with the following idea; wondering if anyone has thought of something similar?
Since the Rule of Three I've been missing doubling up Doms in my Repressors, opting instead to run 6-woman Melta Doms in them. However it occurred to me that it would be possible to still get another non-Dom unit into the back of the same vehicle after it has used the Dominion's Vanguard move but before the tank itself moves on T1.
Assuming a Vanguard move going straight ahead, and considering that the tank is just over 5" long, it seems like you could easily get a unit to within 3" of the rear, allowing you to embark before the tank itself then completes its T1 move. Here's a diagram:
Granted it would be trickier to get a whole unit to within 3" and if you lose the first turn they are ripe for being shot, but I'm looking at getting just a Canoness in there for some epic Combi-Plasma out the 6th Fire Port, and providing a potentially clutch reroll aura to the Doms once the tank pops (not to mention a T2 charge for the Blade of Admonition ), and she is reasonably protected by the character rule if you go second.
Math wise I think that assuming a tank length of just over 5" (will measure tonight) that you could Vanguard up to 14" and a 6" move would get you to within 3" to embark and still allow you to fire out the top that turn, or you could go 15" Vanguard if Canoness advanced and up to 18" if you're willing to risk her advance roll being 2-4".
Moving the tank diagonally gets a little more complicated, but if I fashion a 9" rod to put in base contact with the Canoness, and ensure this is touching the back of the Repressor post-vanguard move, I'll be all good whatever direction it moves in.
You could also do this with an Immolator to get any character into that 6th transport slot.
Rubenite wrote: Back to Tactics... apologies if this has been previously discussed, but I'm toying with the following idea; wondering if anyone has thought of something similar?
Since the Rule of Three I've been missing doubling up Doms in my Repressors, opting instead to run 6-woman Melta Doms in them. However it occurred to me that it would be possible to still get another non-Dom unit into the back of the same vehicle after it has used the Dominion's Vanguard move but before the tank itself moves on T1.
Assuming a Vanguard move going straight ahead, and considering that the tank is just over 5" long, it seems like you could easily get a unit to within 3" of the rear, allowing you to embark before the tank itself then completes its T1 move. Here's a diagram:
Spoiler:
Granted it would be trickier to get a whole unit to within 3" and if you lose the first turn they are ripe for being shot, but I'm looking at getting just a Canoness in there for some epic Combi-Plasma out the 6th Fire Port, and providing a potentially clutch reroll aura to the Doms once the tank pops (not to mention a T2 charge for the Blade of Admonition ), and she is reasonably protected by the character rule if you go second.
Math wise I think that assuming a tank length of just over 5" (will measure tonight) that you could Vanguard up to 14" and a 6" move would get you to within 3" to embark and still allow you to fire out the top that turn, or you could go 15" Vanguard if Canoness advanced and up to 18" if you're willing to risk her advance roll being 2-4".
Moving the tank diagonally gets a little more complicated, but if I fashion a 9" rod to put in base contact with the Canoness, and ensure this is touching the back of the Repressor post-vanguard move, I'll be all good whatever direction it moves in.
You could also do this with an Immolator to get any character into that 6th transport slot.
Thoughts?
Sneakier would be to put a Dialogus in so she can do a speedbump/Martyrdom MIRV in turn 2.
Could even be done with a unit of Battle Sisters Troops in order to grab objectives, but would probably require Hand of the Emperor to get them into embarkation range reliably. Seraphim are the better target for that Act of Faith, though.
But with so many units to drop it's less likely that we'll even get the first turn.
I've used it, it does work. Though Vanguarding just a few vehicles, even if you go first, in my experience just gets them dead. I was all over it pre Ro3. Now, I rarely get to go first so there is that, but I prefer just to roll out a full wave of Repressors doubled up with SBBSS, a few Melta Doms running solo and InfernoSeraphim for AT all hitchhiking in Celestine's SoF buff. Hits en masse and doesn't care who goes first. I give the AoF to my InfernoSeraphim and use them to bust some tanks and put down a wall of SBolter shots. Not terribly exciting, but Spamming BSS is the new non WAAC way to play and double Battalions is a gakton of CP's
Yeah... I have to admit that's my experience as well. It's all or nothing because half measures get you dead. Unfortunately Ro3 means that 'all' is no longer an option. If i'm going 2nd, which feels more often than not, I just vanguard to get out of line of sight or into celestines 6" bubble for the 5+ invul. Soak a few more shots before the tin openers do their job.
It's sickening to see about 700 points worth of repressors and dominions eat dirt before doing anything because you didn't get first turn and have to play a survival game trying not to get tabled because you're glass cannon got shattered before it got a shot off.
I have to say though, I've found that a couple of Armiger Warglaives with their codex points reduction have great synergy with dominions. They are what penitent engines wish they were, fast enough to get the job done. Also Armiger Helverins are a decent support option and i'd take them any day over an Exorcist.
I know I'm about to heavily contradict my earlier statements here but as more and more codices come out we are really starting to feel the pain from the rule of 3. The game has turned into a long range shooting/smite fest. While I never took more than 3-4 Repressors the 3 I do take now just seen to die within a turn or so and thus far Celestine has lost me every game I've lost in ITC format. I feel the way to go is ally in gaurd for a 1+ save -1 to hit Baneblade and use Seraphim/Repessors or Immolators loaded with BSS for late game objective grabbing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/10 17:01:47
Rynner wrote: I know I'm about to heavily contradict my earlier statements here but as more and more codices come out we are really starting to feel the pain from the rule of 3. The game has turned into a long range shooting/smite fest. While I never took more than 3-4 Repressors the 3 I do take now just seen to die within a turn or so and thus far Celestine has lost me every game I've lost in ITC format. I feel the way to go is ally in gaurd for a 1+ save -1 to hit Baneblade and use Seraphim/Repessors or Immolators loaded with BSS to late game objective grabbing.
Ah is the Repressor not a DT? I don't have the Forgeworld book
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Rynner wrote: I know I'm about to heavily contradict my earlier statements here but as more and more codices come out we are really starting to feel the pain from the rule of 3. The game has turned into a long range shooting/smite fest. While I never took more than 3-4 Repressors the 3 I do take now just seen to die within a turn or so and thus far Celestine has lost me every game I've lost in ITC format. I feel the way to go is ally in gaurd for a 1+ save -1 to hit Baneblade and use Seraphim/Repessors or Immolators loaded with BSS to late game objective grabbing.
ITC has totally screwed up the VP points regarding STC and the twins. A dead twin won't trigger Martyrdom because a character didn't die, but a dead twin awards points because the enemy killed a character. Seems fair. It's pretty terrible they can milk STC for 10 VPs a game.
On the other hand, you can use it to your advantage if you know that your opponent has to try to kill Celestine.
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Yeah I suppose but then it means I have 250 points doing mostly nothing. I'll probably write something up after the event to let everyone know how it goes.
Rynner wrote: I know I'm about to heavily contradict my earlier statements here but as more and more codices come out we are really starting to feel the pain from the rule of 3. The game has turned into a long range shooting/smite fest. While I never took more than 3-4 Repressors the 3 I do take now just seen to die within a turn or so and thus far Celestine has lost me every game I've lost in ITC format. I feel the way to go is ally in gaurd for a 1+ save -1 to hit Baneblade and use Seraphim/Repessors or Immolators loaded with BSS to late game objective grabbing.
Ah is the Repressor not a DT? I don't have the Forgeworld book
It is but it's 110 points and you can only vanguard three of them now. I've heard of people having success by doubling up BSS in them. I've just never tried it as I've found allies to be more beneficial.
Melta Doms in Repressors with Combi-Plasma Canoness chasing after one of them and the HBBSS squad chasing the other (depending on mission they can hop in and fire HB out the 6th port or hang back on an objective).
Evisc PP Canonness w Plasma/Melta BSS squad in Immolator for a turn 3-4 "wait, there's even more melta?"
Dialogus and SBBSS in other Immolator purely for Objectives or frontline chaff clearing.
Dropped an Immolator and added barebones HB rets for more consistent firepower and faith-dumping if the Seraphim die quickly.
Ideally I think I would love to convert up a third Repressor but with Kill Team looming it's going to be terrain terrain terrain for the foreseeable future for me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/10 22:57:18
Rubenite wrote: Ideally I think I would love to convert up a third Repressor but with Kill Team looming it's going to be terrain terrain terrain for the foreseeable future for me.
My table will drown in the new ruins from Killteam. Only thing left to decide is color scheme.
Rubenite wrote: Ideally I think I would love to convert up a third Repressor but with Kill Team looming it's going to be terrain terrain terrain for the foreseeable future for me.
My table will drown in the new ruins from Killteam. Only thing left to decide is color scheme.
Why limit yourself? I'll take one in white marble, one in green marble, one in a dark granite, one in red....
So much Mechanicus terrain after selling my soul to get everyones Renegade terrain to add to my existing stuff. Now KT launches with the new stuff. Is there such a thing as too much terrain?
Rubenite wrote: Ideally I think I would love to convert up a third Repressor but with Kill Team looming it's going to be terrain terrain terrain for the foreseeable future for me.
My table will drown in the new ruins from Killteam. Only thing left to decide is color scheme.
Why limit yourself? I'll take one in white marble, one in green marble, one in a dark granite, one in red....
So much Mechanicus terrain after selling my soul to get everyones Renegade terrain to add to my existing stuff. Now KT launches with the new stuff. Is there such a thing as too much terrain?
My golf budget thinks so. I have two expensive time consuming hobbies that fight for my attention.
Doubling up Doms and BSS in a repressor. It does cancel the Vanguard ability, but how often are you all using it?
Seems like everytime I do run the Vanguard movement, my repressors get toasted. Since going first never seems to happen for me.
Been thinking of changing my list up to have the Doms pair up with BSS with the Superior carrying a combi melta as well. So 6 melta firing out of the repressor.
Then just use my only Immolator to run Rets around the board with a canonness to secure objectives if needed. Versus having them walk anywhere
zaahul wrote: Doubling up Doms and BSS in a repressor. It does cancel the Vanguard ability, but how often are you all using it?
Seems like everytime I do run the Vanguard movement, my repressors get toasted. Since going first never seems to happen for me.
Been thinking of changing my list up to have the Doms pair up with BSS with the Superior carrying a combi melta as well. So 6 melta firing out of the repressor.
Then just use my only Immolator to run Rets around the board with a canonness to secure objectives if needed. Versus having them walk anywhere
Vanguard every single game without fail. If I'm going second I'll use it to redeploy to a more favorable position, but I usually get the first turn (I run mechanised without the retributor firebase for ~9/10 deployment drops).
I think that Repressors are there to die - I charge them straight forward into the enemy lines and though 12 wounds with a 5++ from Celestine is pretty tanky, I often only get one round of shooting out of the fire ports. Don't forget popping smoke to help them absorb a bit more firepower. But I find that once the Meltas are out of the tank that Act of Faith shooting them is very effective as you're already in position in the thick of it, especially if you can engineer a cheeky Martydom for them too from a Dialogus.
IMO I think a 6th Melta would be overkill. In my last game I doubled up a bare BSS squad with a Heavy Bolter into the Repressor with the Melta Doms (made them chase after it post-vanguard as detailed in my previous posts) and I found the Heavy Bolter firing out the 6th port to give a decent amount of utility even though it was hitting on 4+. It just had great range and LOS from the tank and was great for picking things off here and there.
zaahul wrote: Doubling up Doms and BSS in a repressor. It does cancel the Vanguard ability, but how often are you all using it?
Seems like everytime I do run the Vanguard movement, my repressors get toasted. Since going first never seems to happen for me.
Been thinking of changing my list up to have the Doms pair up with BSS with the Superior carrying a combi melta as well. So 6 melta firing out of the repressor.
Then just use my only Immolator to run Rets around the board with a canonness to secure objectives if needed. Versus having them walk anywhere
I double up SB/BSS in Repressors with other SB/BSS. Dominons run solo in Repressors with Meltaguns so that Vanguard is something my opponent at least has to take in to account. I deploy the Doms aggressively but unless my opponent gives me something foolishly worth it, I deploy sideways or in to LOS cover with Vanguard. It still has its uses to isolate an opposing flank from targets or run and hide, not what it sued to be. Ro3 makes the Vanguard elment generally too small to survive long enough on its own to make their sacrifice worthwhile.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
), and she is reasonably protected by the character rule if you go second.
