Sisters of Battle 8th Edition Tactica

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**Fafnir**

I wouldn't mind seeing two different entries for the Canoness, one with a jump pack, one without.

The one with the jump pack could have all the toys and features we have now, just... you know, with a jump pack.

The footslogging one could come with Vanguard movement (to mesh with Dominions), artificer armour, and the option to buy a stormshield in addition to her other gear.

You could then give them each a different faith-based functionality.

**Melissia**

... which, again is what I've been saying. There's no reason to take a canoness beatstick because the best weapon she has is a damn overpriced eviscerator.

But even that might be useful if she could accompany seraphim because of a jump pack, but she can't.

**phydaux**

If Sisters are going to get a new Codex before December, and by all indications they, and everyone else, ARE going to be getting a new Codex, then IMO everyone should put off making any new purchases until then.

**jake**

phydaux wrote:
If Sisters are going to get a new Codex before December, and by all indications they, and everyone else, ARE going to be getting a new Codex, then IMO everyone should put off making any new purchases until then.

You're probably right, but then again GW has a long history of skipping Sisters, making them wait till the very last few months of an edition or filling their codex with random dudes from a completely different army. So holding off for a new codex might end up being a very long wait or just lead to more disappointment.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

phydaux wrote:
If Sisters are going to get a new Codex before December, and by all indications they, and everyone else, ARE going to be getting a new Codex, then IMO everyone should put off making any new purchases until then.

You see, I'm skeptical.

If we do, I expect to be the last installment before the year is out.

Assuming they crank it out fast, at 2 per month, there are to be 10 releases. 6 of those are Space Marines [Vanilla, Hot-Pocket, Furry, Vampire, Emo, and Shiny], and at least 3 are Chaos Space Marines [Regular, Green, and Blue]. That just sort of leaves us to be wedged in as the last. They're also going to wedge either Orks or Eldar in as a token Xeno release. That's all 10 slots filled. Now, they could bump Space Wolves or Blood Angels in the release order, but are they really going to put us in those slots? If they do, one slot is for Imperial Guard or Tyranids and one slot is for the other token xenos option.

And, all thing considered, I'd rather be at the end of the release cycle with Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Adeptus Mechanicus, and Genestealer Cults, since, once they're done with the rush to kick Space Marines out the door, they'd actually have time to theoretically write us a balanced army.

**vipoid**

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
6 of those are Space Marines [Vanilla, Hot-Pocket, Furry, Vampire, Emo, and Shiny]

I so want those to become the nicknames of the respective SM factions.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

vipoid wrote:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
6 of those are Space Marines [Vanilla, Hot-Pocket, Furry, Vampire, Emo, and Shiny]

I so want those to become the nicknames of the respective SM factions.

My group does call them that sometimes

. We don't have silly names for the Chaos ones, but that's also because, until now, Chaos Space Marine Legions didn't have their own books.

**pretre**

Not to be a downer, but can we take the release speculation and future codex wishlisting to another thread?

**phydaux**

Foot Slogging Sisters and the Event Horizon

Based on input from this thread, I have reconsidered how to arm my foot slogging Sisters army.

Dominion Squads are fast because of the Vanguard special rule, and can carry four assault weapons, plus a weapon on the Sister Superior. They will likely be the first squads to encounter the enemy.

Basic Sisters Squads aren't quite so fast, and can only carry two assault weapons, plus a weapon on the Sister Superior.

Retributors can carry four heavy weapons, and in this rules set that can fire them from the hip with -1 To Hit.

The assumption is that the Doms will range ahead of the BSSs, and that the Rets will trail slightly behind the BSSs.

In order to make maximum use of all my models, I propose arming these squads such that as soon as an enemy unit comes into weapons range of the Dominion Squads, that the Basic Sisters Squads also be in weapons range of that unit, and that the Retributors as well also be in weapons range of that enemy unit. This overlapping of range circles will create what I call an "Event Horizon" in front of the Dominion Squads where all of your units will be able to focus fire on any enemy unit that crosses that horizon, withering even the largest or heaviest enemy units.

Arming the Doms with short range weapons like Meltaguns & a CombiMelta, the BSSs and their Sister Superior with medium range Stormbolters, and the Rets with long-ish range Heavy Bolters, will allow this overlapping.

My only concern is that most of my anti-tank killing power, my Meltaguns, will be in the hands of what amounts to a "bait" unit. Yes, if the Doms are charged they can choose to fall back, allowing every other unit in the army to shoot the charging unit. I am concerned that they may sustain too many casualties and will be killed off before that can reach a large, long range enemy unit like a tank.

But I guess that's what St. C. is for.

Thank you all, for your feedback and tips.

**dracpanzer**

Thats basically a defensive tactic turned on its head. Where as the enemy approaches you they encoubter an ever increasing amount of fire. First the long range heavies, then medium weapons, and finally all of that being joined by every available small arms when you get real close.

You are looking at doing the opposite. The problem I see arising is that if your opponent can avoid your Dominions optimum range, they could basically avoid all of your firepower. They could concentrate on your Dominions and take your three lines down piece by piece.

You want your long range weapons deployed (Rets) forward far enough to hit as many of the enemy that can target your assault element as possible. Your assault element (Doms) then needs to cross no mans land under their covering fire as quickly as they can. They will be ahead of your medium range troops (BSS) which will have to keep up as best they can with your assault in order to be able defend or expand on their efforts.

Foot slogging Sisters might be viable in 8ed, Celestine and Seraphim aside, I'm just not sure it's going to be in an offensive nature like you are proposing unless their is a decent amount of LOS blocking terrain. Fast moving armies will be able to avoid you, shooty armies will have their way with you and you'll need to change up tactics completely against an army looking to charge you.

I'm firmly in the double Dom squads in Repressors running with Celestine and inferno Seraphim camp. Grab them by the belt and don't let go till all the Heretics are roasted, blasted, or melted....

**Fafnir**

Melissia wrote:
... which, again is what I've been saying. There's no reason to take a canoness beatstick because the best weapon she has is a damn overpriced eviscerator.

But even that might be useful if she could accompany seraphim because of a jump pack, but she can't.

Honestly, for a weapon that costs what it does and at the -1 to hit penalty that it has, the eviscerator should be hitting at S8. I mean, they already went out of their way to give Repentias their own unique crap eviscerators, might as well do the same and give the Canoness her own good one. Just call it a 'blessed eviscerator' or something like that.

**vipoid**

Fafnir wrote:
Honestly, for a weapon that costs what it does and at the -1 to hit penalty that it has, the eviscerator should be hitting at S8. I mean, they already went out of their way to give Repentias their own unique crap eviscerators, might as well do the same and give the Canoness her own good one. Just call it a 'blessed eviscerator' or something like that.

Honestly, I'd rather it was just cheaper (around 10-15pts) and stayed S6.

**Fafnir**

I just think that being able to hit S8 in melee would do a lot to help differentiate the roles of the Canoness and Celestine.

10 points for S6 isn't terrible, but it still puts her in a place where she has no role.

**vipoid**

Fafnir wrote:
I just think that being able to hit S8 in melee would do a lot to help differentiate the roles of the Canoness and Celestine.

10 points for S6 isn't terrible, but it still puts her in a place where she has no role.

As I said earlier though, I think she should provide an extra act of faith for the army (maybe on a 3+).

I think her role should be one of support and force-multiplication, rather than just being a beatstick.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

See, I don't think Celestine and the Canoness should have different roles, because Celestine is unique. Our army has pretty bad scaling right now, and this is part of the reason.

I think Celestine as a super-Canoness is pretty reasonable. I think a better way of making 2 distinct HQ's would be to have a Palantine and a Canoness.

**vipoid**

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
See, I don't think Celestine and the Canoness should have different roles, because Celestine is unique.

I agree. However, I don't think Celestine should be a beatstick either (at least, not to the degree she is at the moment).

**madhatter00o**

phydaux wrote:
If Sisters are going to get a new Codex before December, and by all indications they, and everyone else, ARE going to be getting a new Codex, then IMO everyone should put off making any new purchases until then.

Unfortunately, the SoB models on the GW website are nearly sold out. You can still purchase BBS, Seraphim, and a few others at outrageous prices, but it seems like the supply of the more recently popular models is, well, gone.

Thankfully, there are many ways to get second-hand models, but it can be quite a hassle to track down good deals.

Still, GW running out of metal SoB models does (at least) two major things:

1. It shows GW that the army is still popular and that people want to play it.
2. As a result of (1), it shows GW that supporting the army - with plastic models and a proper Codex - is worthwhile and in fact necessary if they plan to maintain the faction. (They'd piss off a lot of players if they discontinued the army, especially after all the slights we've had to endure thus far.)

I'm certain that GW won't discontinue the army, but the model shortage (if it is such) kind if forces their hand when it comes to plastic models. I have no idea how they'll handle it as they've shown poor and myopic judgement calls in the past.

I suppose only time will tell.

**Mr Morden**

vipoid wrote:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
See, I don't think Celestine and the Canoness should have different roles, because Celestine is unique.

I agree. However, I don't think Celestine should be a beatstick either (at least, not to the degree she is at the moment).

She is effectively a Greater Daemon of the Emperor - its kinda what she does

**vipoid**

Mr Morden wrote:
She is effectively a Greater Daemon of the Emperor - its kinda what she does

Actually, that's a relatively recent change.

In 3rd she was a Jump Pack Cannoness with +1WS, +1I but -1A (no pistol). The Ardent Blade was a S5 Master Crafted power weapon that could be fired as a flamer, though she had a mere 3 attacks with it (For comparison, a Canoness could take the same weapon, minus the flamer part, and have 4 attacks with it, albeit at WS4).

In 5th she got given WS7 BS7 I7 and +2 attacks and the Ardent Blade become a Heavy Flamer. However, the Ardent Blade lost both S5 and Master Crafted and instead wounded non-vehicles on a 4+.

In 6th her stats remained the same. The Ardent Blade became S5 Master Crafted again, but was only AP3 (her resurrection ability was also nerfed dramatically, but that's besides the point).

In 7th, towards the very end, she was updated with her Geminae Superior (though they only had 3+/4+ saves). Celestine got 5 wounds and the Ardent Blade got Armourbane. But even then she was still only striking at S5.

Finally, in 8th, her strength was bumped to 7 with the blade and she got an extra attack. Also, the AP of the blade was improved along with its damage.

I'd argue that she really only became a monster in this very edition. Maybe in 7th at a stretch (though mostly she was just hard to kill). Prior to that, her damage was only ever comparable to standard HQs (marine captains and the like). In 5th, her combat abilities were no better than that of a DE Archon with an Agoniser.

Anyway, I think S5 was reasonable for her. S7 just feels like too much to me. I also think 5 attacks would have been fine.

My personal though is that she should be the best melee character for SoB, but shouldn't be the equivalent of greater daemons and the like (at least not in terms of strength and number of attacks). For me, her strength should like more in her resurrection ability and in her inspirational power (represented in her Aura and free Act of Faith). I also really wish she hadn't gained the permanent Geminae retinue, as all they really do is solidify her role as a Holy Damage Sponge.

**dracpanzer**

madhatter00o wrote:

Still, GW running out of metal SoB models does (at least) two major things: <<<<snip>>>>> I suppose only time will tell.

Sisters have been going in and out of "available" "out of stock" no longer available" for a long, long time. It means they are making more sometime soon. It has yet to mean anything else than that, certainly doesn't mean "get your hopes up".

**vipoid**

dracpanzer wrote:
madhatter00o wrote:

Still, GW running out of metal SoB models does (at least) two major things: <<<<snip>>>>> I suppose only time will tell.

Sisters have been going in and out of "available" "out of stock" no longer available" for a long, long time. It means they are making more sometime soon. It has yet to mean anything else than that, certainly doesn't mean "get your hopes up".

It means someone bought the 2 SoB packs they keep in stock at any one time.

**phydaux**

madhatter00o wrote:
phydaux wrote:
If Sisters are going to get a new Codex before December, and by all indications they, and everyone else, ARE going to be getting a new Codex, then IMO everyone should put off making any new purchases until then.

Unfortunately, the SoB models on the GW website are nearly sold out. You can still purchase BBS, Seraphim, and a few others at outrageous prices, but it seems like the supply of the more recently popular models is, well, gone.

Thankfully, there are many ways to get second-hand models, but it can be quite a hassle to track down good deals.

Still, GW running out of metal SoB models does (at least) two major things:

1. It shows GW that the army is still popular and that people want to play it.
2. As a result of (1), it shows GW that supporting the army - with plastic models and a proper Codex - is worthwhile and in fact necessary if they plan to maintain the faction. (They'd piss off a lot of players if they discontinued the army, especially after all the slights we've had to endure thus far.)

I'm certain that GW won't discontinue the army, but the model shortage (if it is such) kind if forces their hand when it comes to plastic models. I have no idea how they'll handle it as they've shown poor and myopic judgement calls in the past.

I suppose only time will tell.

It could be done with only FOUR sprue.

SPRUE A - Five Sisters legs, five Sisters chest rear half, five Sisters chest front half, five left arms, five right arms, five backpacks, five heads, five bolters.

SPRUE B - Stormbolter, Flamer, Meltagun, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta , parts to make a Combi-Flamer or a Combi-Melta

SPRUE C - Two Seraphim legs, two Seraphim chest rear half, two Seraphim chest front half,, two heads, two each right & left Bolt Pistol arms, one each right & left Hand Flamer & Inferno Pistol arms, two Sisters Jump Packs

SPRUE D - Sister Superior legs, arms, chest, head, jump pack, various pistols, CCWs & Power Weapons

Sisters Box Set gets one of sprue A and one of Sprue B, and cost $35. Seraphim box set gets two of sprue C, one of sprue D, and cost $40.

Done.

**jake**

It could be (and that is a clever way to get the max out of a minimal number of sprues), but I hope they give us more than that. I'd like to be able to build Seraphim squads that have more than 2 bodies, or get a Sister Superior for my squads without having to buy a Seraphim box. I'd like to have some distinct options for Celestines (assuming they ever get better). A nice multi unit kit that's half Repentia and half something new would be cool too. I'm tired of Sisters being defined by the small number of models GW made for them. I want a full Dark Eldar style reboot, as unlikely as that is.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

Here's the thing, and what I said in the thread someone asked about "will there be plastic Sisters?"

As long as it says "Temporarily Out of Stock," then no, and we probably can't expect anything plastic for 3-6 months. When it says "Temporarily Out of Stock", it means they plan to do at least one more production run. It switches to "Last Chance to Buy" if the kit is being discontinued. They also just outright take it down when it runs out of stock if they're re-packing the kit.

**MacPhail**

Quick weekend summary: 2 games at 2000 points each, I went 1-and-1. I mismanaged range and exposure and got ruined by close range gauss fire from a Necron Silver Tide-- those guys are hard to get off the board. I scored a well-matched win against Death Guard with Celestine and a single Gemina bringing down Typhus and a unit of Chaos Termies while deep striking plasma Scions tallied a full DG Marine unit and a Soulgrinder.

Current thinkings: Units difficult to capitalize on include Seraphim and anything even considering melee with the help of a Priest. Also looking for a good place for Imagifiers other than with a Canoness and HB Retributer unit, might try a big stormbolter unit. Definitely feeling good about double-loading Rhinos, just not sure of the perfect combo yet. Flamers of all types generally good at forcing volume saves.

**jake**

MacPhail wrote:
Quick weekend summary:

Current thinkings: Units difficult to capitalize on include Seraphim and anything even considering melee with the help of a Priest.

I asked earlier, but does anyone have any thoughts on Repentia?

**pretre**

jake wrote:
MacPhail wrote:
Quick weekend summary:

Current thinkings: Units difficult to capitalize on include Seraphim and anything even considering melee with the help of a Priest.

I asked earlier, but does anyone have any thoughts on Repentia?

Way too expensive for what you get, imo.

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

jake wrote:
MacPhail wrote:
Quick weekend summary:

Current thinkings: Units difficult to capitalize on include Seraphim and anything even considering melee with the help of a Priest.

I asked earlier, but does anyone have any thoughts on Repentia?

Yes, I do.

None of them are good.

i guess, at least, they're D2 and S6, which means they can fairly efficiently hurt Necron Vehicles, while Dominions can't. But really, that's at best situational, and they're still overcosted.

I'd pass on Repentia.

**dracpanzer**

jake wrote:
A nice multi unit kit that's half Repentia and half something new would be cool too. I'm tired of Sisters being defined by the small number of models GW made for them. I want a full Dark Eldar style reboot, as unlikely as that is.

Half repentia, half ??? Female redemptionists? Not sure I could think up something along that line that they don't already have in one form or belongs to another army already.

Using Repentia as Sisters of Silence with great blades is the only way I can think of to make them effective. They are expensive, and even running with a priest, mistress, or whatever getting an AoF to get an advance move before turn one you aren't very likely to get a turn one charge in.

I have tried on several occasions in 8ed, they are very hard to get your points back from. Groups of 3 running in a vehicle with something besides Doms just as nasty surprise still isn't worth the five Doms they cost. They need a rules re-write.

**KestrelM1**

jake wrote:
They need a rules re-write.

They'd need to drop in cost by 5ppm before I'd even consider them. Their current cost is ridiculously high for T3 6++, Acts of Faith be darned. It's a shame, because they're great models.