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 deviantduck wrote:
I still don't see a Gemini being able to take the relic sword. It goes against every other codex.

They aren't named characters, so I don't see why not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drider wrote:
it would probably be better to condense the dialogus into immagifiers for the purposes of faith economy. I mean if we're going to go down the route of generating faith through martyrdom we might as well double down with it. Try to make it so that for every 1 turn the enemy gets we effectively get 2 turns.

Yeah, easier to get the models for too.

 pretre wrote:
Now to find some ways to make an alternate dialogous so I don't have to buy a bunch of the bad ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So funny list:

Brigade at 2k
C+2G - 250
Canoness with Evis/BP - 57 (with SOB 1 in Rhino)
Canoness with Evis/BP - 57 (with SOB 2 in Rhino)
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 228
5 Doms with 4 Melta in Repressor - 228
8 Seraph with 4 IP, Sup with CS/BP - 124
8 Seraph with 4 IP, Sup with CS/BP - 124
5 BSS with 3 SB in Rhino - 126
5 BSS with 3 SB in Rhino - 126
5 BSS with 3 SB in Rhino - 126
5 BSS with 3 SB in Immo - 154
5 BSS with 3 SB in Immo - 154
5 BSS with 3 SB in Immo - 154
Dialogus - 15
Dialogus - 15
Dialogus - 15
Dialogus - 15
Dialogus - 15
Dialogus - 15

Each Canoness rides in a Rhino with BSS. Dialogous in every BSS transport. Relic to one of the Gems.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I definitely don't have that many dialogus or SB.

Wait, might be b.c i just woke up, but this isnt a legal list?

Fair point, it's missing 3 heavy support

Oh shoot. I forgot HS was required. BAH. I'll fix it later. I had 3xRets before.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I still don't see a Gemini being able to take the relic sword. It goes against every other codex.

Ok. Sounds like YMDC!

Don't get me wrong, I plan on doing it until I'm told I can't.

If the Warlord isn’t in the Sisters’ detachment , can she take the Relic? At least in the Guard Codex it states that if the Warlord is in that detachment THEN they can take Relics. I’ve heard of no such provision up to now for the Sisters (I usually take a Guard Warlord for their Relics and traits).

 davidgr33n wrote:
If the Warlord isn’t in the Sisters’ detachment , can she take the Relic? At least in the Guard Codex it states that if the Warlord is in that detachment THEN they can take Relics. I’ve heard of no such provision up to now for the Sisters (I usually take a Guard Warlord for their Relics and traits).

IG Codex doesn't have any Detatchment restrictions. In fact Heirlooms of Conquest doesn't even require your army to be battle-forged.

If you have an <Astra Militarum> Warlord, an <Astra Militarum> Character gets a relic. Same goes for <Adepta Sororitas>. Doesn't matter how they're organized, detatchment-wise.>

The best I could do brigade wise, while still remaining legal was:

Celestine and two Geminaes
2 x Canoness with Eviscerator

6 x 5 Battle Sisters with 2 Stormbolters in Rhinos

2 x 5 Doms with 4 Meltas in Immolator
1 x 5 Seraphims with 2 pairs of inferno pistols

3 x 5 Retributors with 4 Heavy Bolters

Now for Elites I actually went for:

2 x Imagifiers
1 x Dialogus

Reasoning for not spamming Dialogus? They literally do nothing for your army. They have no shooting. They hit on 5s in melee and their morale re-roll has no purposes when youre fielding 5 man squads. Once your opponent understands why your brought them, he will just ignore them or make sure to kill as many of them in the same shooting phase to deny you extra acts of faith.

I am thinking the imagifiers are still the best choice. They can provide you with acts of faith and if they die, which your opponent will likely try to do, they will get you one last act of faith.


I would leave one canoness and one imagifier behind with the retributors and send the others in with some sisters in their rhinos to support the dominions advance. As for the single dialogus, I would charge it right into my opponent first chance I get to suicide her and get an extra act of faith at the end of my own assault phase.

I'll keep playing with mine. I agree with the Dia/Imag comment though.

I think if you are aiming for a brigade there's no point in wasting points on transports for BSS. Just take them as a 5 girl unit and give them a heavy bolter, if you've got the points left over hand out some stormbolters as an after thought. Just use them to zone out deepstrikes and camp objectives. The heavy bolter gives them just enough poking power and range to be relevant for a 55 point unit.

Use the points saved from rhinos to spend on more powerful or conventionally useful units.

 Drider wrote:
I think if you are aiming for a brigade there's no point in wasting points on transports for BSS. Just take them as a 5 girl unit and give them a heavy bolter, if you've got the points left over hand out some stormbolters as an after thought. Just use them to zone out deepstrikes and camp objectives. The heavy bolter gives them just enough poking power and range to be relevant for a 55 point unit.

Use the points saved from rhinos to spend on more powerful or conventionally useful units.

Some of the transpports (Immolators, for example) are powerful in their own right, however, as is the movement power implied by an obsec unit in a Repressor.

I'm not sure thats a bad thing if your opponent knows why they are there. At the very least in that case they provide some cheap deep strike screening or objective holders that your opponent really doesn't want to kill.

I think that a Battalion and one or two outriders would prob be the better choice now.

A battalion, Outrider and something to fill the ranged support role. Let's face it our ranged options kinda suck, I've been enjoying a knight crusader with AGC, TC and SRP. But there's more than one option to fill that role.

 Drider wrote:
I think if you are aiming for a brigade there's no point in wasting points on transports for BSS. Just take them as a 5 girl unit and give them a heavy bolter, if you've got the points left over hand out some stormbolters as an after thought. Just use them to zone out deepstrikes and camp objectives. The heavy bolter gives them just enough poking power and range to be relevant for a 55 point unit.

Use the points saved from rhinos to spend on more powerful or conventionally useful units.

I wouldn't mount up all the BSS units, but ten infantry with 6 storm bolters (2 squads) in a Rhino have been great for me. I try to deposit the infantry into cover, preferably on to an objective, at the beginning of turn 2. The tank goes on to box out a movement lane or tie something up for a turn in CC, or stays nearby to add its storm bolter to the mix. The sisters put out a nice volume of fire and are hard to dislodge. A Canoness or Imagifier often stops by later in the game if the position is holding up well and making back its points. Shooting twice a turn and rerolling misses, I've had the combo absolutely shred orks, gribblies, and cultists, and even wear down units of MEQs over a couple of turns. If a single dominion survives the retribution charge after turn one, having her fall back and expose her opponent to this combo is pretty sweet.

Agreed on the HB nuisance units in the backfield.

KestrelM1 wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
If the Warlord isn’t in the Sisters’ detachment , can she take the Relic? At least in the Guard Codex it states that if the Warlord is in that detachment THEN they can take Relics. I’ve heard of no such provision up to now for the Sisters (I usually take a Guard Warlord for their Relics and traits).

IG Codex doesn't have any Detatchment restrictions. In fact Heirlooms of Conquest doesn't even require your army to be battle-forged.

If you have an <Astra Militarum> Warlord, an <Astra Militarum> Character gets a relic. Same goes for <Adepta Sororitas>. Doesn't matter how they're organized, detatchment-wise.

I should have said this differently...

My Warlord is a Commander in my Guard Detachment, can my Canoness (who is in my Sisters Detachment and not a Warlord) still take the Relic Blade?>

 davidgr33n wrote:

KestrelM1 wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
If the Warlord isn’t in the Sisters’ detachment , can she take the Relic? At least in the Guard Codex it states that if the Warlord is in that detachment THEN they can take Relics. I’ve heard of no such provision up to now for the Sisters (I usually take a Guard Warlord for their Relics and traits).

IG Codex doesn't have any Detatchment restrictions. In fact Heirlooms of Conquest doesn't even require your army to be battle-forged.

If you have an <Astra Militarum> Warlord, an <Astra Militarum> Character gets a relic. Same goes for <Adepta Sororitas>. Doesn't matter how they're organized, detatchment-wise.

I should have said this differently...

My Warlord is a Commander in my Guard Detachment, can my Canoness (who is in my Sisters Detachment and not a Warlord) still take the Relic Blade?>

No. You only have access to relics from your warlords faction.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:

KestrelM1 wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
If the Warlord isn’t in the Sisters’ detachment , can she take the Relic? At least in the Guard Codex it states that if the Warlord is in that detachment THEN they can take Relics. I’ve heard of no such provision up to now for the Sisters (I usually take a Guard Warlord for their Relics and traits).

IG Codex doesn't have any Detatchment restrictions. In fact Heirlooms of Conquest doesn't even require your army to be battle-forged.

If you have an <Astra Militarum> Warlord, an <Astra Militarum> Character gets a relic. Same goes for <Adepta Sororitas>. Doesn't matter how they're organized, detatchment-wise.

I should have said this differently...

My Warlord is a Commander in my Guard Detachment, can my Canoness (who is in my Sisters Detachment and not a Warlord) still take the Relic Blade?>

No. You only have access to relics from your warlords faction.

CA is giving everynone relics/WL traits and stratagems.

You get a relic if your faction has a full detachement, exmaple, if you are SoB with a Assassin and Gman in same detachment then no.

There is also a stratagem you can use to get relics from other factions or so I am told.

The rules are pretty much clarified here-

https://spikeybits.com/2017/11/adeptus-sororitas-chapter-approved-rules-spotted.html

Am I missing something or is that the worst possible warlord trait sisters could ask for?

 deviantduck wrote:
Am I missing something or is that the worst possible warlord trait sisters could ask for?

I was just thinking how badass it is for my foot brigade.

I feel that we are being pushed in multiple directions... which is good for variety. I think we still need something like conscripts though if we are going to be good at a foot-based army.

Do you think that tournaments will allow fortifications again?

 Anpu-adom wrote:
I feel that we are being pushed in multiple directions... which is good for variety. I think we still need something like conscripts though if we are going to be good at a foot-based army.

Do you think that tournaments will allow fortifications again?

Maybe!

My foot army works fine - I use 6 units of 10 sisters as the core, 5 with all storm bolters and 1 unit of melta-combimelta-multimelta. Two Immolator-mounted (my only not-foot units) of 4-melta & combi-melta Dominions, and one Seraphim with inferno pistols to escort Celestine with her 2 best friends. The heavy support are 4 Heavy Bolter rets, and the elites are 3 Imagifiers - 2 with the big blob up front, 1 in the back with the Rets to let one fire twice or give them some healing, etc. The other two HQs are two Canonesses, one for hanging out with the rets for that re-roll 1s on 12 Heavy Bolters and one up front in the blob to help with combat threats and give re-rolls to that ~60 sisters.

The one in the blob will get the Warlord Trait, because morale is actually an issue for 10-girl squads in a big mob, and will also get the Blade of Admonition because my blob always always manages to end up in close combat.

With the changes to Celestine's cost, where is the threshold where she reasonably enters a list? At 200 solo and 250 with friends, does she fit in a 1000 point list? I usually play 2000 and that looks to be the new tournament standard, but I have a couple of friendly games tonight at 1000. I'll play one game with her and one without, mainly to test the impact of the Canoness with relic and to run Seraphim at their new price point.

 MacPhail wrote:
With the changes to Celestine's cost, where is the threshold where she reasonably enters a list? At 200 solo and 250 with friends, does she fit in a 1000 point list? I usually play 2000 and that looks to be the new tournament standard, but I have a couple of friendly games tonight at 1000. I'll play one game with her and one without, mainly to test the impact of the Canoness with relic and to run Seraphim at their new price point.

My fair head costing of Saint Celestine's unit is:

Saint Celestine - 150 points
Friend 1 - 100 points
Friend 2 - 20 points

They aren't perfectly exact, and others are free to disagree. But that's my general thoughts.

 MacPhail wrote:
With the changes to Celestine's cost, where is the threshold where she reasonably enters a list? At 200 solo and 250 with friends, does she fit in a 1000 point list? I usually play 2000 and that looks to be the new tournament standard, but I have a couple of friendly games tonight at 1000. I'll play one game with her and one without, mainly to test the impact of the Canoness with relic and to run Seraphim at their new price point.

Depends on how much you think she is worth, i'm taking her in my 1k list for a tournament, in a friendly game at 1k i wouldnt take her.

Well, I only had time for one tonight, so I took the list without Celestine to see what would happen and to test the CA content.

Canoness
Canoness with Inferno pistol and Blade of Admonition
BSS w/ 3 Stormbolters
BSS w/ 3 Stormbolters
BSS w/ 3 Stormbolters
Imagifier
Imagifier
Melta Doms w/ plasma pistol in Immo
Melta Doms w/ plasma pistol in Immo
Inferno Seraphim
HB Rets

My opponent:
Typhus
Poxwalkers
2x Hellbrute
2x Blight Drone
Plagueburst crawler

He seized the initiative and did a little damage. My melta Doms and Seraphim utterly failed due to horrible melta rolling on my part and really good FNP rolls from him. I only made 2 AoF rolls the whole game. At the end of T1 he had everything still on the table and it went downhill from there. I was up on points after T3, but he was clearly going to table me and we called it at the bottom of T4. Not a terrible list or flawed deployment, but some terrible rolling at clutch moments vs. an opponent who knew how to maximize his list.

Despite the loss, I got a look at our new toys. I denied a witch! It was amazing. It felt really, you know, like I was playing an army resistant to psychic powers. I'd never actually done it in 8th with our horrible, horrible rule, so Purity of Faith is kind of nice if you have the CP. Definitely will be useful keeping Celestine from getting Smote to death.

Martyrdom was tough... I lost an Imagifier and a Canoness in the same Fight phase, so I didn't have a great target for the extra AoF when it finally came around. It was just too late in the game to matter, but it certainly offers something.

The Blade of Admonition was okay, but no substitute for Celestine. S5 wasn't what I needed to go up against an army with so few infantry. Inferno Seraphim are great, but they need that 5++ from Celestine to really stand out.

Anyway, if two of our problems are that we can't effectively counter psykers and AoFs don't scale well, maybe GW tried to throw us a bone. I liked my list even though it got trounced. If I'd had one or two things off the table by T2 it would have been a different game, and most of the new gimmicks at least look like they can pull their weight.

Agreed, Celestine is a huge bonus to Sisters even if AoF's don't scale as well in a pure Sisters army. Imagifers ccoupled with Martyrdom are going to become quite nice for us. Sorry your Immo Doms left you wanting. My first detachment is always Outrider. CP's are great, but Dominions are always better even if you just take them for the Vanguard move.

I am interested to see how it settles out about using Martyrdom AoF's. Is using an AoF a once per game turn ability or once per player turn? Although I suspect its on a game turn basis. We need to ask the question because their has never been any chance to use the 8ed AoF in anything but your own player turn.

Assuming its Game Turn, it does put some interesting pros in going second. Not that I would ever aim to go second but you can't always avoid it. And when stuck doing so at least you get a clean slate of units to choose from as your army is still waiting for your bottom half of the turn to get an AoF phase.

In running through the possibilities, I think the chance to move units might be one of the best uses alongside shooting and Celestine when in hth. The ability to disengage a unit at the end of your opponents shooting phase, at the very least causing additional overwatch and possibly causing a failed charge that removes the threat of enemy hth attacks. Which occuring in your opponents turn wouldn't count for your girls as having fallen back during your next turn.

At any rate, its going to make our opponents leary of killing characters during their shooting phase, we get better options out of it than we do losses in the assault phase.

Not sure which would be more entertaining, lose a character in your opponents shooting phase, Do you move that BSS unit your opponent was lining up to assault away so that they can't. Or do you move Celestine into the gap and force your opponent to charge her as well as...I am excited for CA. We will just have to get used to using our characters in a manner so that we will benefit more than our opponent would like by leaving our characters (especially the Elite choice ones) alive so they are more hard pressed to target them.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Agreed, Celestine is a huge bonus to Sisters even if AoF's don't scale as well in a pure Sisters army. Imagifers ccoupled with Martyrdom are going to become quite nice for us. Sorry your Immo Doms left you wanting. My first detachment is always Outrider. CP's are great, but Dominions are always better even if you just take them for the Vanguard move.

I am interested to see how it settles out about using Martyrdom AoF's. Is using an AoF a once per game turn ability or once per player turn? Although I suspect its on a game turn basis. We need to ask the question because their has never been any chance to use the 8ed AoF in anything but your own player turn.

Assuming its Game Turn, it does put some interesting pros in going second. Not that I would ever aim to go second but you can't always avoid it. And when stuck doing so at least you get a clean slate of units to choose from as your army is still waiting for your bottom half of the turn to get an AoF phase.

In running through the possibilities, I think the chance to move units might be one of the best uses alongside shooting and Celestine when in hth. The ability to disengage a unit at the end of your opponents shooting phase, at the very least causing additional overwatch and possibly causing a failed charge that removes the threat of enemy hth attacks. Which occuring in your opponents turn wouldn't count for your girls as having fallen back during your next turn.

At any rate, its going to make our opponents leary of killing characters during their shooting phase, we get better options out of it than we do losses in the assault phase.

Not sure which would be more entertaining, lose a character in your opponents shooting phase, Do you move that BSS unit your opponent was lining up to assault away so that they can't. Or do you move Celestine into the gap and force your opponent to charge her as well as...I am excited for CA. We will just have to get used to using our characters in a manner so that we will benefit more than our opponent would like by leaving our characters (especially the Elite choice ones) alive so they are more hard pressed to target them.

I don't think there's any issue or conflict. Last edition we had 'Game Turn' and 'Player Turn', and any generic 'Turn' meant 'Player Turn' by default. However, 8th changed it to 'Battle Round' and 'Turn'. Each 'Battle Round has two 'Turns'.

From the rulebook, pg 177
THE BATTLE ROUND
Warhammer 40,000 is played in a series of battle rounds. During each battle round, both players have a turn. The same player always takes the first turn in each battle round – the mission you are playing will tell you which player this is. Each turn consists of a series of phases, which must be resolved in order. The phases are as follows:

Now, the way I read this is, you can't have celestine fight something before the movement phase and then have her fight again later in your own turn. Let's say in the charge phase you charge something with a rhino and it gets overwatched and dies and you roll a 1 for the ladies inside and you choose your dialogus inside to perish. You now get a free AoF out a sequence. I don't think Celestine gets to fight again in the charge phase right before she'd have the opportunity to fight for a third time in the fight phase.

From Index Imperium 2, pg 91
ACTS OF FAITH
Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+, one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn; when this is the case, a different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith.

Now, I totally don't think it's game breaking, or any more of a shenanigan compared to some things in other armies, to let someone use more than 1 AoF in a turn as long as it's in different phases, but that's my opinion and not how I interpret the rules.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow, I got lost in that and didn't actually reply to your question. Yes, I think it is perfectly legal for you to use and AoF during your opponent's turn even if the same AoF was used by the same unit on your turn. Since it's a different turn, you aren't violating the restrictions.