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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*a few days later*

Beric Dondarrion: *dies off screen*

Wonderful.

Gotta wrap up all those pesky plotlines and characters! Pace, pace, pace!

I thought this episode fell flat, to be honest. Everything happened more or less as we expected. Cersei will act like she's cooperating but backstab them, the NK will use the dragon to breach the wall, Jon and Daenerys will end up together, etc. And that Jon "revelation" (other than his name) felt like a lot of handholding for audience members who haven't been paying any attention.

Regarding Jon being dumb, he just looks that way because he isn't playing the same game (of you-know-what) as everyone else. If he lied and then later backstabbed Cersei, he'd be *exactly* like her. He's the only one who seems to understand -- and he seems to understand this better than Daenerys -- that if you want to build something different, you have to genuinely be different. Else whatever you build will be on the same rotten foundation.


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 Ouze wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
So magically cold frosty breath is what was needed to bring down the wall? Not flaming hot ice melting dragon fire? While I understand the need to drive the plot forward just how strong is frosty breath? Does the dragon fire melt and shatter entire stone fortresses at a pass? While dragon fire certainly cooked a bunch of Lanisters it seemed nowhere near as brutally effective as frosty cold somehow melting through something the size of a mountain.

I'd think adding extra frosty cold would make more snow and the ice might grow? Maybe make a nice ice ramp up the wall? But explode it? These GOT physics are baffling indeed.

From what I saw it was less cold, per se, and more impactful - it seemed more like it was destroying the wall like a hammer vs melting.

I think it was just blue flame. It isn't an ice dragon, just an undead one. There are (were) supposed to be ice dragons in that world, but they weren't undead creatures. Two different things.

 Ouze wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Also Jon is not very bright - he might have forgotten.

As the show has progressed, I've come to realize Jon really is just dumb as all feth.

He is like a LG paladin in DnD.

I enjoyed the episode but it went pretty much as I expected. I'd like to see less politicing and more dragons blowing stuff up from this point on, please.

So when Jamie defects to the north, is there gonna be a lovers triangle between him, briene and wildling guy? I'm assuming he's got the plot armor now and can survive dragons blowing stuff up, eye patch guy probably not so much.

Couldn't Clegane have just let the wight kill Cersi, and pull it back a moment too late, and just be like "oops, my bad" ?

I really liked the episode. I think we knew each of the plot points was coming, but they still felt right.

There were no big new surprises but honestly I think defining good stories by how surprised you are means missing out on a lot of good stuff. Sometimes the art is in the telling, not in tricking you with new twists.

And while game of thrones is most famous for its big twists and character deaths, that's selling the show short. What's always made it work is the range of characters, and the way it had those characters interact with each other in ways that are interesting & believable to all involved.

And the episode certainly got those right this time. The big moments, Tyrion & Cersei, Arya & Sansa etc were all well done. But there was a lot of short conversations that did a lot in a few lines, each interesting in their own way. Brienne and Jaime's short scene showed how much things had changed, Bronn and Tyrion showed how some things were the same as ever

This episode definitely did a better job of pausing and letting the characters talk than last. Had one of these little 3 minute scenes existed between Benjen and Jon last episode I would have been a lot happier with how that went down.

Well, beyond the end scene,

 Compel wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Beric Dondarrion: *dies off screen*
Wonderful.

You assume too much...

I thought he and Tormund both survived on top of the Wall?

That's how it appeared to me. Jumped to safety and watched the rest of the wall go down.

 Necros wrote:
So when Jamie defects to the north, is there gonna be a lovers triangle between him, briene and wildling guy?

The real awkwardness will start if Jamie is in the same room with Bran. Bran will probably be above getting emotional about it, but Jamie will have to do some more soul searching.

Depends which side of the breach they were on. If they were on the landward side they can just march to the next fort and get down there, but the whole seaward side collapsed.

Given everything else in the episode played out pretty much as expected, it's likely the former.

There was nothing wrong with this one specifically, but it did feel oddly unsatisfying for some reason. I was on the edge of my chair for a lot of the ep. where Arya reaches Winterfell and Dany attacked the Lannister convoy, but I think Jaime kinda sums up how I feel as a viewer when they threaten a character to raise the stakes now - I don't believe them.

 Yodhrin wrote:
There was nothing wrong with this one specifically, but it did feel oddly unsatisfying for some reason. I was on the edge of my chair for a lot of the ep. where Arya reaches Winterfell and Dany attacked the Lannister convoy, but I think Jaime kinda sums up how I feel as a viewer when they threaten a character to raise the stakes now - I don't believe them.

Yeah, I was expecting someone to die. Bronn was my candidate because I believe Cersei implied it an episode or two ago on how Jamie was going to punish him, and she would do it in his stead.

Kind of disappointed in that regard.

I think that'll change come next season.

Next season we'll be at the point where the various characters will eventually have 'done their jobs' and therefore become expendable.

I enjoyed the episode, but like everyone else was saying it is rather predictable with no really unexpected twists.

Two things that I will say;
- I'm sad that they killed Littlefinger, not for any great love for the character, but because he was the only 'bad guy' who might concievably have won in the end. We now seem to be inexorably on course for a standard Hollywood ending.
- They are really foucusing on getting the good guys and bad guys on opposite sides, wereas I enjoyed the shades of grey that dominated the earlier series.

I'll be interested to see what they do in the last series, as there are only battles left to resolve. GoT has never made much of a war film so they will need to create some more political wrangling from somewhere.

 Necros wrote:
I enjoyed the episode but it went pretty much as I expected. I'd like to see less politicing and more dragons blowing stuff up from this point on, please.

So when Jamie defects to the north, is there gonna be a lovers triangle between him, briene and wildling guy? I'm assuming he's got the plot armor now and can survive dragons blowing stuff up, eye patch guy probably not so much.

Couldn't Clegane have just let the wight kill Cersi, and pull it back a moment too late, and just be like "oops, my bad" ?

Yeah. I saw it.
The triangle. Brianne was one who changed Jamie's, view point. She gave him this slowly building streak of honour and began his turn from old to new Jamie. And now his honour means he even abandoned his sister and Armour. So almost his house.

Tormund, ell he loves her and wants giant babies lol.
Episode was great.

Little finger was plain well, arya is plain cold stone ruthless.
Epic ending.

Sam. Well Don t tell jon.
Just Don, t! Might be for the best.

Very very good episode.
Good ending to season.





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 Yodhrin wrote:
Depends which side of the breach they were on. If they were on the landward side they can just march to the next fort and get down there, but the whole seaward side collapsed.

Given everything else in the episode played out pretty much as expected, it's likely the former.

There was nothing wrong with this one specifically, but it did feel oddly unsatisfying for some reason. I was on the edge of my chair for a lot of the ep. where Arya reaches Winterfell and Dany attacked the Lannister convoy, but I think Jaime kinda sums up how I feel as a viewer when they threaten a character to raise the stakes now - I don't believe them.

The breach was east watch...
I think there on landward side but the eastward fort is gone. So the next castle down wall. There's 19. Not many are garrisoned so unless they have working routes down you gotta go all the way to next which is like castle black..

Also randomnthought.
Jon returns with Dany after boat sex...

So meet the family. Bran creepy kid who sees everything and has magic powers.
Arya who is a lethal asasain.
Jon. Oh I returned from dead and killed 2 white walkers.
Dany... Dragon Queen immune to fire.

And...
Sansa... I just play games... Epic games but still.
Wonder how sansa and Co take to a dany...

GoatboyBeta wrote:

I'd love it if the culmination of his arc was Littlefinger making his move to put Sansa in charge of the north in front of all the other lords, but she refuses and guts him with the fancy dagger

Close enough I wonder how Theon's rescue plan is going to effect his uncle bringing the Iron banks mercs over to Westeros?

Well he got what one ship?
Jon n Dany took one, and they only had like what 5 left in the scene heading there.

Umm... I think something not able to take down a whole fleet.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's magic. They don't gotta 'splain gak!

Anyway:

Beric Dondarrion: The Lord brought you back, and he brought me back. No one else. Just us. Did he do it to watch us freeze to death? ... I've been waiting for the end for a long time. Maybe the Lord brought me here to find it?

*a few days later*

Beric Dondarrion: *dies off screen*

Wonderful.

He's not dead yet...I've seen a so called plot leak for the Season 8 premiere...

 jhe90 wrote:
Well he got what one ship?
Jon n Dany took one, and they only had like what 5 left in the scene heading there.

Umm... I think something not able to take down a whole fleet.

Yeah he's not going to take out the fleet. But maybe a sneaky rescue op and some sabotage could delay them enough so that they only arrive in time to get stomped by the Night king, along with Cersei and the rest of Kings Landing?

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Well he got what one ship?
Jon n Dany took one, and they only had like what 5 left in the scene heading there.

Umm... I think something not able to take down a whole fleet.

Yeah he's not going to take out the fleet. But maybe a sneaky rescue op and some sabotage could delay them enough so that they only arrive in time to get stomped by the Night king, along with Cersei and the rest of Kings Landing?

I suppose if he does some tricky stuff in port he can slow the fleet down or block harbour somehow.

Even he disabled there flag ship. They can sail without surely. Leave in port. Delivering army is objective you can return and sent one back after to collect your flag vessel.

Unless he attacks the boat carrying the iron bank gold...no gold. No army.

Whatever happens, its Theon he'll probably screw it up somehow What happened to Gendry? I'm assuming he stayed at the wall, so will probably be heading to Winterfell next season. At the risk of shipping, could Sansa end up with Robert Baratheon's son after all?

Wincest is bestcest.

I think Theon finally turned himself around and managed to throw out Reek to embrace the honor of his Stark upbringing and the determination of his Greyjoy heritage.




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 BaconCatBug wrote:
Wincest is bestcest.

Spoiler:

Still, I knew from the moment Danny brought the dragons beyond the wall it was a cockup of monumental proportions. Due to John's shortsighted idiocy, the wall is gone and the army of the dead can just march in unopposed.

How else are they supposed to breach the wall?

If they used the magical horn that let's them "toot toot" the wall away there would be people complaining even louder, I think.

 d-usa wrote:
I think Theon finally turned himself around and managed to throw out Reek to embrace the honor of his Stark upbringing and the determination of his Greyjoy heritage.

That smirk when he'd been beaten to a pulp, and then the Ironborn tried to kick him in the balls...Reminded me of Euron. He's found his Ironborn side at last.

Good episode after the crap last week.

Little Finger bit was predictable but well crafted.

The negotiations were good.

In some ways I would have liked it if Cersei had actually followed through and joined them- would have made things more interesting.

Also the whole Euron /Cartman - Feth this I am goping home" would have been even more fun - esecially since we now have to suffer the Gold Company nonsense.

Oh and Jon;s a Targyrian - yawn. Still no chemistry between him and Dany but thats the main couple so oh well.

Bran is still an epic dick or a pawn of the undead.

good episode.....even Jon got a good line.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Good episode after the crap last week.

Little Finger bit was predictable but well crafted.

The negotiations were good.

In some ways I would have liked it if Cersei had actually followed through and joined them- would have made things more interesting.

Also the whole Euron /Cartman - Feth this I am goping home" would have been even more fun - esecially since we now have to suffer the Gold Company nonsense.

Oh and Jon;s a Targyrian - yawn. Still no chemistry between him and Dany but thats the main couple so oh well.

Bran is still an epic dick or a pawn of the undead.

good episode.....even Jon got a good line.

The jon snow bit was nothing new. And honestly changes little bar incest, and well Got has so much it ain't shocking now on that show.

Maybe season one. Not 7. It's just shrug.
But hey. Least jon snow might be less of a downer now he got laid. And dany less obsessed with burning things.

Meet the family could be fun...
Hey... Umm I cam eback from dragonstone... And capital. Now meet my new girlfriend.

Little finger. Good. Arya showing how she cold as winter there.
Not even looking at him. Cut turn. Walk.
Sansa. Well you graduated to game player status.

True, I liked some of the infreque was back.

Jamie.... We ain't seen the last of him.
And maybe a possible lanister vs lanister fight. Who is the arm y loyal too.
Lanister vs golden company?

I think, and hope, that Janie will be the little brother from the prophecy.

 d-usa wrote:
I think, and hope, that Janie will be the little brother from the prophecy.

Yeah. She gone pretty unhinged. Even was thinking about hurting her brother\lover....

I mean he is the battlefield commandor.
Tywinn is dead. He built the army.
Tywinn brother. Kevin. Was warden of castle rock when Tywinn hand and senor lanister out there. Gone
Sandor is long gone. Tough fighter though.
Gregory's is just a zombie. He did have banner force but nope.
Batistan gone. Legend gone. Dead.

Some of the bigger military skilled knights, or commandor are gone. What sway and respect does she have over army by title.

Least Jamie's is a famous Knight, kings guard and has a battlefield reputation.

Who she got left.
Dany, Snow alience has more leaders who can lead from front...
Cersai. She got far less. Good luck holding the army together

 d-usa wrote:
I think, and hope, that Janie will be the little brother from the prophecy.

Maybe - I still think it would have been braver and more intersting to have Cersei as a proper ally against the dead -ah well - its should be a good fun final season.

Hopefully Dany wins, Jon dies,

Late to the party, but absolutely loved that.

I'll need to binge watch to be certain, but I think perhaps another episode could've helped spread out the latter end of the plot?

 LunarSol wrote:
This episode definitely did a better job of pausing and letting the characters talk than last. Had one of these little 3 minute scenes existed between Benjen and Jon last episode I would have been a lot happier with how that went down.

The real shame of it is they did a great job at the start of that episode letting the characters talk. The interactions between the various members of the expedition beyond the wall were great. But then with Benjen they just dropped the ball entirely.


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 jhe90 wrote:
The breach was east watch...
I think there on landward side but the eastward fort is gone. So the next castle down wall. There's 19. Not many are garrisoned so unless they have working routes down you gotta go all the way to next which is like castle black..

Wildlings climbed the wall while under attack from above. So it isn't much of a stretch that characters might be able to fashion together some climbing materials from what's left on top of the wall, and make their way down, possible using some structures still partially standing.

 jhe90 wrote:
Yeah he's not going to take out the fleet. But maybe a sneaky rescue op and some sabotage could delay them enough so that they only arrive in time to get stomped by the Night king, along with Cersei and the rest of Kings Landing?

I suppose if he does some tricky stuff in port he can slow the fleet down or block harbour somehow.

Even he disabled there flag ship. They can sail without surely. Leave in port. Delivering army is objective you can return and sent one back after to collect your flag vessel.

Theon isn't trying to stop the Iron Fleet or prevent the Gold Company crossing the sea. He's just trying to get his sister back.