German MPs approve gay marriage in snap vote

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**Co'tor Shas**

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40441712?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

A clear majority of German MPs have voted to legalise same-sex marriage, days after Chancellor Angela Merkel dropped her opposition to a vote.
The reform gives gay men and lesbians full marital rights, and allows them to adopt children.
At present, same-sex couples are limited to civil unions.
Mrs Merkel's political opponents were strongly in favour. But Mrs Merkel, who only gave MPs the go-ahead on Monday, voted against.
She had told deputies in her conservative Christian Democrat party (CDU) to "follow their conscience".
Norbert Lammert, president of the parliament, said 393 lawmakers voted to approve the amendment, while 226 voted against and four abstained.
The German legal code will now read: "Marriage is entered into for life by two people of different or the same sex", AFP news agency reported.
How did Merkel prompt the vote?
During her 2013 election campaign, Angela Merkel argued against gay marriage on the grounds of "children's welfare," and admitted that she had a "hard time" with the issue.
But at an event hosted by the women's magazine "Brigitte" on 26 June, she shocked the German media by announcing on stage that she had noted other parties' support for it, and would allow a free vote in the future.
The usually-cautious chancellor said she had had a "life-changing experience" in her home constituency, where she had dinner with a lesbian couple who cared for eight foster children together.
As the news spread on Twitter, supporters rallied under the hashtag #EheFuerAlle (MarriageForAll) - and started calling for a vote as soon as possible.
Does gay marriage have popular support?
Yes - a recent survey by the government's anti-discrimination agency found that 83% of Germans are in favour of marriage equality.
The day after the Republic of Ireland voted to legalise gay marriage in May 2015, almost every German newspaper splashed a rainbow across its front page.
"It's time, Mrs Merkel" Green party leader Katrin Goering-Eckhart exclaimed then. "The Merkel faction cannot just sit out the debate on marriage for everyone."
Why is this happening now?
Because of an upcoming general election.
Germans go to the polls on 24 September, and the sudden Merkel turnaround will deprive her opponents of a campaign issue.
The Greens, the far-left Linke, and the pro-business Free Democrats all back same-sex marriage. In fact, they have refused to enter a future coalition deal unless reform is agreed on.
Mrs Merkel's current coalition partners - the centre-left Social Democrats (SPD) - have done the same.
The right-wing Alternative for Germany (AfD) is now the only party to oppose same-sex marriage.
Conservatives within Mrs Merkel's party, the Christian Democrats (CDU), are against a change in the law, however.
They have argued that a gay marriage bill would require a change to the constitution, and that marriage between a man and a woman should enjoy special protection.
The CDU's Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU), has also expressed opposition.
Its members champion "traditional" families - and pragmatist Mrs Merkel needs their votes in the September election.
Commentators say this partly explains why she has rejected a vote on marriage equality until now.
How did Merkel's opponents react?
Amid a groundswell of public support for a vote, Mrs Merkel's rivals have moved to capitalise politically.
A day after her comments, the SPD's candidate for the chancellorship Martin Schulz declared - "we will take her at her word," and called for an immediate vote.
The Greens and Linke promptly backed the prospect.
The CDU responded by condemning the SPD, its coalition partner, for its "breach of trust" after four years of joint rule.
The angry exchange came just days after Mr Schulz angered conservatives by accusing Mrs Merkel of an "attack on democracy", saying she was deliberately making politics boring so that opposition supporters wouldn't bother to vote.
Has the vote been politicised?
On Wednesday, Mrs Merkel branded the political dispute "totally unnecessary" in an interview with business weekly Wirtschafts Woche (in German)..
"This isn't about some legislative footnote, but... a decision that touches on people's deepest convictions and on marriage, a cornerstone of our society", she said.
Die Welt, a German national daily agreed.
"This could have been a great moment for Germany's parliament. But the CDU/CSU have been forced into a corner and all the joy has been drained," it wrote.
Where else in Europe has same-sex marriage?
A host of European countries have beaten Germany to a same-sex marriage law.
Civil marriages are legally recognised in Norway, Sweden, Denmark (excluding the Faroe Islands), Finland, Iceland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg, France, the UK (except Northern Ireland and Jersey), and the Republic of Ireland.
But in Austria and Italy - as in Germany - gay couples are restricted to civil partnerships.

Congratulations Germany!

**Peregrine**

This is the best part:

The angry exchange came just days after Mr Schulz angered conservatives by accusing Mrs Merkel of an "attack on democracy", saying she was deliberately making politics boring so that opposition supporters wouldn't bother to vote.

HOW DARE THEY ALLOW A CHANGE THAT 83% OF THE POPULATION SUPPORTS WE NEED MORE HYPER-PARTISAN HATE FOR EACH OTHER.

**jhe90**

Peregrine wrote:
This is the best part:

The angry exchange came just days after Mr Schulz angered conservatives by accusing Mrs Merkel of an "attack on democracy", saying she was deliberately making politics boring so that opposition supporters wouldn't bother to vote.

HOW DARE THEY ALLOW A CHANGE THAT 83% OF THE POPULATION SUPPORTS WE NEED MORE HYPER-PARTISAN HATE FOR EACH OTHER.

Germany, welcome to the future.
Even of you disagree. Leave people be and let them Marry as long as there consenting adults and doing it of there own free will.

**Frazzled**

Better late than never.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Good

**Frazzled**

How will this square with the new immigrants? I foresee things going boom.

**BigWaaagh**

Wunderbar Deutschland!

**jhe90**

Frazzled wrote:
How will this square with the new immigrants? I foresee things going boom.

German law. German votes.
It ain't there country to be brutally honest. They are Guests. If you want to stay, respect the culture of your host nation.

You would not walk down Saudi flaunting your gay or drinking a beer.
Same thing.
When in Rome. Do as romans.

**daedalus**

I read about this the other day and was genuinely surprised Germany did not already have this. Good for them though.

**Frazzled**

jhe90 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
How will this square with the new immigrants? I foresee things going boom.

German law. German votes.
It ain't there country to be brutally honest. They are Guests. If you want to stay, respect the culture of your host nation.

You would not walk down Saudi flaunting your gay or drinking a beer.
Same thing.
When in Rome. Do as romans.

Its the refugee's country too now. Thats what happens when you take in immigrants.

**jhe90**

Frazzled wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
How will this square with the new immigrants? I foresee things going boom.

German law. German votes.
It ain't there country to be brutally honest. They are Guests. If you want to stay, respect the culture of your host nation.

You would not walk down Saudi flaunting your gay or drinking a beer.
Same thing.
When in Rome. Do as romans.

Its the refugee's country too now. Thats what happens when you take in immigrants.

And there in Europe now. We have gay rights full stop. No apologizing for the right that they should have.
If they do not like it, there are other nations.

**AlmightyWalrus**

I like how you managed to turn this into a "darn refugees" thread in less than a page. Could you maybe not so we don't get yet another thread locked?

**H.B.M.C.**

It's almost like there's a German election coming up and those in power are further attempting to play to the youth.

"How do you do, fellow kids?" - Angela Merkel

**BigWaaagh**

Frazzled wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
How will this square with the new immigrants? I foresee things going boom.

German law. German votes.
It ain't there country to be brutally honest. They are Guests. If you want to stay, respect the culture of your host nation.

You would not walk down Saudi flaunting your gay or drinking a beer.
Same thing.
When in Rome. Do as romans.

Its the refugee's country too now. Thats what happens when you take in immigrants.

Said by a guy living in a country that was pretty much built by immigrants and is entirely populated...for all purposes...by immigrants or the descendants of immigrants.

I genuinely miss this type of ignorance since the US Politics thread was locked. NOT...

**Frazzled**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I like how you managed to turn this into a "darn refugees" thread in less than a page. Could you maybe not so we don't get yet another thread locked?

1. I've asked my question and moved on. As there are multiple cultures in Germany now I was wondering how that would play out.
2. I must have missed the last refugee thread you are referring to.

How many other European nations permit same sex weddings?

Said by a guy living in a country that was pretty much built by immigrants and is entirely populated...for all purposes...by immigrants or the descendants of immigrants. I genuinely miss this type of ignorance since the US Politics thread was locked. NOT...

That was my point. There are multiple cultures there now. Each have their say and influence, and I was wondering how that would go. Oh and reported.

**A Town Called Malus**

Frazzled wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
I like how you managed to turn this into a "darn refugees" thread in less than a page. Could you maybe not so we don't get yet another thread locked?

1. I've asked my question and moved on. As there are multiple cultures in Germany now I was wondering how that would play out.
2. I must have missed the last refugee thread you are referring to.

How many other European nations permit same sex weddings?

Ireland, France, Spain, Portugal, UK (barring Northern Ireland because it is run by religious fanatics), Iceland, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Finland and Sweden have full same sex marriage. Others have civil partnerships whilst some eastern european countries have no same sex partnerships at all.

As for your question of how this will go down with immigrant populations, if those immigrants don't like it they can petition their representatives to seek a repeal in the Reichstag, just like anybody else.

**Frazzled**

Ireland, France, Spain, Portugal, UK (barring Northern Ireland because it is run by religious fanatics), Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Finland and Sweden have full same sex marriage.

Excellent.

How are they on gay adoption?

thers have civil partnerships whilst some eastern european countries have no same sex partnerships at all.

I read this and my mind thought it said no sex partnerships and I thought- wait we;re already talking marriage, why are they repeating themselves?

**Witzkatz**

I'm also glad this finally happened.

Merkel's stance on this is interesting - I think as a person, she might be all for it, which is why she allowed a vote and asked MPs to "vote their conscience", but as leader of the CDU I guess she felt obliged to vote "no" herself as not to piss off her home demographic.

Smart overall to do this before the election indeed, I'm pretty sure the SPD and other parties had already written up speeches about finally getting marriage for all, which will now be useless.

**A Town Called Malus**

Frazzled wrote:

Ireland, France, Spain, Portugal, UK (barring Northern Ireland because it is run by religious fanatics), Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Finland and Sweden have full same sex marriage.

Excellent. How are they on gay adoption?

Realised I missed out Iceland, they have SSM too. For gay adoption, the list is pretty much the same as for gay marriage but with some others in there, too: Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

Those countries have full adoption rights for same sex couples. Others allow varying levels of adoption, from legally adopting the child of your same sex partner to no adoption at all (pretty much the same countries with no same sex marriage are also the ones with no adoption at all for same sex couples).

**Frazzled**

cool. Who's Andorra?

**A Town Called Malus**

Frazzled wrote:
cool. Who's Andorra?

Spoiler:

**Frazzled**

coolio!!!

**WrentheFaceless**

Good on you Germany!

**BertBert**

Let's hope that the new government will address other more important issues like low pensions, low wages, bad working conditions, big companies avoiding taxes etc. with the same determination.

**reds8n**

Frazzled wrote:
cool. Who's Andorra?

Adrian Mole's girlfriend.

**feeder**

reds8n wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
cool. Who's Andorra?

Adrian Mole's girlfriend.

Pandora?

**shingouki**

germany is so cucked.

**Peregrine**

shingouki wrote:
germany is so cucked.

Lolwut.

**Spinner**

Peregrine wrote:
shingouki wrote:
germany is so cucked.

Lolwut.

If the internet's porn collection is to be believed, Germany as a whole has plenty of fetishes; given that that particular one is oddly common, I could certainly see cuckolding being among them, although I'm not entirely sure how that's relevant to the discussion.

I didn't know they didn't have same-sex marriage yet, but well done on them for doing it!

**feeder**

shingouki wrote:
germany is so cucked.

Is same sex cuckolding a thing?

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