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Q: Is the cost of the combat shield included in the Company
Champion and Company Champion on Bike’s points?
A: No. This (and all similar ‘other wargear’ found in the
points values section must be paid for in the same way as
a model’s weapons.

So stupid...

:/

 Purifier wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
So apparently Soulburst is a lot better than people thought it was:

Q. When can I target an enemy Character that has a
Wounds characteristic of less than 10?
A. Such a Character can only be targeted in the
Shooting phase if it is the nearest visible model to
the firing model. You can target enemy Characters
without restriction in the Psychic phase*, Charge
phase, Fight phase, etc. You may also make shooting
attacks at enemy Characters which occur outside the
Shooting phase (i.e. when resolving Overwatch in the
Charge phase).

what part is this quote from? That asterisk has me curious.

Stepping Into A New Edition.

Jacob29 wrote:

Q: Is the cost of the combat shield included in the Company
Champion and Company Champion on Bike’s points?
A: No. This (and all similar ‘other wargear’ found in the
points values section must be paid for in the same way as
a model’s weapons.

So stupid...

:/

... because it works just like everyone else's models?

I think there are some general misconceptions about cover. The advanced terrain rules provide a definite "area terrain" definition for bonuses (reducing incoming Charge distances, etc.). However, to me, it's quite clear...if your unit is "in cover" you get a cover bonus. Note that the FAQ was addressing "woods, ruins" etc. which are indeed area terrain types.

A unit standing behind a hedge or wall? To me, that's cover. A vehicle behind a building? Cover. If someone disagrees, that'll be a game I'm not playing. I think people are taking the rules as written a bit too far in that context.

 Purifier wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

Q: Is the cost of the combat shield included in the Company
Champion and Company Champion on Bike’s points?
A: No. This (and all similar ‘other wargear’ found in the
points values section must be paid for in the same way as
a model’s weapons.

So stupid...

:/

... because it works just like everyone else's models?

It's listed as a special rule and doesn't' say he can take any wargear?

Prince Yriel has to pay more points for his Force Shield and again it says he cannot take wargear and he isn't' equipped with a force shield?

I was honestly under the impression that if you didn't have wargear options, and it listed a special rule that was named the same as a wargear piece you got it for free.

 Elbows wrote:
I think there are some general misconceptions about cover. The advanced terrain rules provide a definite "area terrain" definition for bonuses (reducing incoming Charge distances, etc.). However, to me, it's quite clear...if your unit is "in cover" you get a cover bonus. Note that the FAQ was addressing "woods, ruins" etc. which are indeed area terrain types.

A unit standing behind a hedge or wall? To me, that's cover. A vehicle behind a building? Cover. If someone disagrees, that'll be a game I'm not playing. I think people are taking the rules as written a bit too far in that context.

But that's literally supported by nothing at all. You're making that rule up on your own. If you don't want to play a game with someone unless they import rules that you want from 7th, then they're not the ones being unreasonable.

Good?

Jacob29 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

Q: Is the cost of the combat shield included in the Company
Champion and Company Champion on Bike’s points?
A: No. This (and all similar ‘other wargear’ found in the
points values section must be paid for in the same way as
a model’s weapons.

So stupid...

:/

... because it works just like everyone else's models?

It's listed as a special rule and doesn't' say he can take any wargear?

Prince Yriel has to pay more points for his Force Shield and again it says he cannot take wargear and he isn't' equipped with a force shield?

I was honestly under the impression that if you didn't have wargear options, and it listed a special rule that was named the same as a wargear piece you got it for free.

Ah, I see what you mean. It is incredibly stupid the way it is, and not at all consistent.
Crusaders, while they pay 0 points for their stormshields, they are in the wargear list, so they have clearly decided that they wanted to use the same logic as with the Company Champion. However, a Tech-Priest Dominus has a Refractor field that does not exist in the wargear section, and so they are not forced to pay for it. Further it should definitely be in his listed wargear at the top if you need to pay for it. Having to read through the special rules and guess at which ones you have to look for in the wargear section is indeed stupid and seems like something that really should be looked at.

I don't think there's anything wrong with him having to pay for his shield, but how they've handled listing it is terrible.

Jacob29 wrote:

It's listed as a special rule and doesn't' say he can take any wargear?

Prince Yriel has to pay more points for his Force Shield and again it says he cannot take wargear and he isn't' equipped with a force shield?

I was honestly under the impression that if you didn't have wargear options, and it listed a special rule that was named the same as a wargear piece you got it for free.

Yeah, I really can't tell how broad this is supposed to be. Prince Yriel has a "forceshield" ability but doesn't have it as wargear, but presumably they still mean for his price to be all-inclusive. Autarchs look like the Company Champions in that they have an ability but no wargear, and are given a point cost sans wargear. Librarians have a "Psychic Hood" ability, which is not wargear in the Space Marines appendix but is clearly a piece of wargear, fluff-wise, and further does appear in the Space Wolves index as wargear, so is this a mistake and Librarians should be paying something?

Voss wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Thats a pretty enormous buff for Purestrain Genestealers, going form 18ppm to 10 and getting the Purestrain Talons upgrade for free instead of 3pts, thats more than halfed their points cost and are now cheaper than the Hive Fleet Stealers.

Purestrain talons aren't really an upgrade, even for free. Taking and attacking with those means forgoing rending claws, which is a poor decision (no ap, or chance and better ap)

It is a bit surprising that purestrains didn't go to 12, or the cost of rending claws didn't go to 2 (though that would make acolytes even worse)


Very glad I didn't assemble any units with cult icons though. Ouch.



Glad the tyranid 'monstrous scything talons' question got resolved, shame about eldar starcannons. Glad some of the Ynnari stuff got cleared up, but saddened that the special transport rule is literally only for 2 models. It looked that way anyway, but a truly mixed ynnari army would be more interesting.



Rather impressed with the turn around time on all this.

Generally yes, but invulnerable saves are a thing and in those cases where you're up against an enemy with a better invuln than armour save (Archon, Daemons, Harlequins, Mandrakes etc) the re-rolling 1's of the talons is better than the useless AP.

And a mixed Ynnari army would be broken, we do not need D-Scythes riding around in Raiders again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jacob29 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:

Q: Is the cost of the combat shield included in the Company
Champion and Company Champion on Bike’s points?
A: No. This (and all similar ‘other wargear’ found in the
points values section must be paid for in the same way as
a model’s weapons.

So stupid...

:/

... because it works just like everyone else's models?

It's listed as a special rule and doesn't' say he can take any wargear?

Prince Yriel has to pay more points for his Force Shield and again it says he cannot take wargear and he isn't' equipped with a force shield?

I was honestly under the impression that if you didn't have wargear options, and it listed a special rule that was named the same as a wargear piece you got it for free.

Not having the Imperium books my first question would be can you buy Combat Shields as optional wargear for other units? If yes then it may be a case that the person answering the question wasn't aware that the Combat Shield on the Company Champion was an abiltiy and not wargear and was probably answered in expectation of it being yet another person asking if they have to pay for wargear listed in the profile (because this forum has proven repeatedly that there's a lot of people who fail to understand the meaning of "points per model (not including wargear)").

Prince Yriel was a bad comparison though, as all named characters are specifically stated to have their wargear costs included. An Autarch would be a better comparison where his forceshield is an ability whilst it's a paid for upgrade on Dire Avengers and Wraithblades.

Either way, still needs clarification.

How exactly did the Genestealers get cheaper? All of them or only Cult?

 axisofentropy wrote:
How exactly did the Genestealers get cheaper? All of them or only Cult?

From Xenos 2 FAQ

Page 142
– Genestealer Cults Points Values
Change the points per model value for Purestrain
Genestealers to read ‘10’.
Change the points per weapon value for Purestrain
talons to read ‘0’.

They were 18 ppm and talons were 3 points. Hive fleet Genestealer are still 12 points ppm

I am surprised that they havent changed DIre Avenger point cost, that still seems like a mistake.

Also, starcanons seem even worse for the points now...

pingu wrote:
I am surprised that they havent changed DIre Avenger point cost, that still seems like a mistake.

Also, starcanons seem even worse for the points now...

Almost seems like that part of the errata was simply a troll.

Us: GW, looks like you made a mistake with regards to the cost of the Avenger Shuriken Catapult. Can you adjust it in the errata please?
GW: No, but here's a completely unnecessary nerf to the starcannon just to show you that we could have changed DAs but we didn't. Megalolz.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
So apparently Soulburst is a lot better than people thought it was:

Q. When can I target an enemy Character that has a
Wounds characteristic of less than 10?
A. Such a Character can only be targeted in the
Shooting phase if it is the nearest visible model to
the firing model. You can target enemy Characters
without restriction in the Psychic phase*, Charge
phase, Fight phase, etc. You may also make shooting
attacks at enemy Characters which occur outside the
Shooting phase (i.e. when resolving Overwatch in the
Charge phase).

what part is this quote from? That asterisk has me curious.

Stepping Into A New Edition.

yeah, that could come as quite a shock to someone. SfD triggered after wiping out a unit in close combat. 5 wraithguard turn around and annihilate that commander skulking behind a unit....ouch!

 bullyboy wrote:

yeah, that could come as quite a shock to someone. SfD triggered after wiping out a unit in close combat. 5 wraithguard turn around and annihilate that commander skulking behind a unit....ouch!

*stereotypical russian accent* Dimitry! I found new way to eliminate asshat commissar!

Incidentally, the RAW for Soulburst says "as if it's the shooting phase." But since the rules for the RAW say that it's only in the shooting phase that the character targeting restrictions apply...

...this is another one for YMDC!

 koooaei wrote:
"If you are using points, you only pay the points for the models you actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear
they are equipped with). An understrength unit still takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment."

3 HQ
6 * 1 Nob (boy squad)
3 * 1 Kommando nob (kommando squads)
3 * 1 Stormboy nob (Stormboyz squads)
3 * 1 grot gunner (big gun squads)

Just pay 93 pts + hq price and get a bunch of cheapo solo nobs + claim 9 command points for fielding a brigade.

If you are running marines, you can take just the sergeant on tactical squads to give each model a combi-flamer. There is enough variety in marines to fill out many different slots without using the same unit.
Especially if you drop from the other chapters. IE, this is a Ultramarine terminator. This is a BA terminator. This is a DA terminator, etc...

Of course, this is a VERY fast way to give up first blood, and it increases your total drops through the roof.
It would also guaranttee a loss for KP missions.

It would be funny if every model you dropped was it's own unit.
I don't think it gives any in-game advantage though. That extra attack and wargear are not worth the cost at initial glance.

nordsturmking wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
How exactly did the Genestealers get cheaper? All of them or only Cult?

From Xenos 2 FAQ

Page 142
– Genestealer Cults Points Values
Change the points per model value for Purestrain
Genestealers to read ‘10’.
Change the points per weapon value for Purestrain
talons to read ‘0’.

They were 18 ppm and talons were 3 points. Hive fleet Genestealer are still 12 points ppm

21ppm was stupidly excessive... 10ppm seems like a MASSIVE overcompensation. Purestrains are incredibly solid, with a T4/S4 profile, a solid amount of attacks and almost certain round 1 charge with Cult Ambush/Swift and Deadly. The item pricing was weird to say the least, as to me Rending Claws seems a better choice to begin with. But getting all that for 10ppm is crazy.

stratigo wrote:
Ah, so every nid player will run with cult stealers for the discount.

Makes sense.

As long as the nid player already has a cult detachment or brings an HQ to use one, and is not planning on using those stealers with tyrranocytes, trygon tunnels, broodlords, the swarmlord, or toxin sacs. So in other words, not nearly that bad.

So... y'all noticed that Plasma Guns explode more at night? Or when firing at aircraft?

And the Primaris Rhino still detonates on a roll of a 1, unlike other vehicles (not that 8th has vehicle rules, but whatever).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... y'all noticed that Plasma Guns explode more at night? Or when firing at aircraft?

And the Primaris Rhino still detonates on a roll of a 1, unlike other vehicles (not that 8th has vehicle rules, but whatever).

And Razorbacks.

 Purifier wrote:

nordsturmking wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
How exactly did the Genestealers get cheaper? All of them or only Cult?

From Xenos 2 FAQ

Page 142
– Genestealer Cults Points Values
Change the points per model value for Purestrain
Genestealers to read ‘10’.
Change the points per weapon value for Purestrain
talons to read ‘0’.

They were 18 ppm and talons were 3 points. Hive fleet Genestealer are still 12 points ppm

21ppm was stupidly excessive... 10ppm seems like a MASSIVE overcompensation. Purestrains are incredibly solid, with a T4/S4 profile, a solid amount of attacks and almost certain round 1 charge with Cult Ambush/Swift and Deadly. The item pricing was weird to say the least, as to me Rending Claws seems a better choice to begin with. But getting all that for 10ppm is crazy.

They weren't 21. They were 18. You could put the equivalent of scything talons on them if you wanted attack with those to reroll ones to hit rather than use rending claws for -1 AP and a chance to rend. Which was a bad idea. It's still a pretty bad idea with free talons.

But yeah, if they wanted to bring them in line, they should have been 12.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... y'all noticed that Plasma Guns explode more at night? Or when firing at aircraft?

And the Primaris Rhino still detonates on a roll of a 1, unlike other vehicles (not that 8th has vehicle rules, but whatever).

Plasma guns when mishandled properly in the dark have their machine spirits get very upset and choose to explode as a result.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... y'all noticed that Plasma Guns explode more at night? Or when firing at aircraft?

And the Primaris Rhino still detonates on a roll of a 1, unlike other vehicles (not that 8th has vehicle rules, but whatever).

Plasma guns when mishandled properly in the dark have their machine spirits get very upset and choose to explode as a result.

Airshows are so impressive in the 41st milennium, now that one can fly at supersonic speeds for ten minutes and only cover ~50m of ground, that soldiers are routinely incited to distraction and forget to vent the heat buildup. [/unconvincing]

 labmouse42 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
"If you are using points, you only pay the points for the models you actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear
they are equipped with). An understrength unit still takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment."

3 HQ
6 * 1 Nob (boy squad)
3 * 1 Kommando nob (kommando squads)
3 * 1 Stormboy nob (Stormboyz squads)
3 * 1 grot gunner (big gun squads)

Just pay 93 pts + hq price and get a bunch of cheapo solo nobs + claim 9 command points for fielding a brigade.

If you are running marines, you can take just the sergeant on tactical squads to give each model a combi-flamer. There is enough variety in marines to fill out many different slots without using the same unit.
Especially if you drop from the other chapters. IE, this is a Ultramarine terminator. This is a BA terminator. This is a DA terminator, etc...

Of course, this is a VERY fast way to give up first blood, and it increases your total drops through the roof.
It would also guaranttee a loss for KP missions.

It would be funny if every model you dropped was it's own unit.
I don't think it gives any in-game advantage though. That extra attack and wargear are not worth the cost at initial glance.

Filling out detachments for massive command point gains is a big advantage.

 koooaei wrote:
"If you are using points, you only pay the points for the models you actually have in an understrength unit (and any wargear
they are equipped with). An understrength unit still takes up the appropriate slot in a Detachment."

3 HQ
6 * 1 Nob (boy squad)
3 * 1 Kommando nob (kommando squads)
3 * 1 Stormboy nob (Stormboyz squads)
3 * 1 grot gunner (big gun squads)

Just pay 93 pts + hq price and get a bunch of cheapo solo nobs + claim 9 command points for fielding a brigade.

This kind of crap is why I hope tournaments do not allow understrength units. Of course per the rules (as someone already pointed out) you can't take multiple understrength units of the same type, but still I think it's open to abuse by some players.

Why is there even a rule to use understength units? Seems unnecessary. For drops, you could always just put the single model understrength units all in a transport anyway, so it's not a hindrance that way. I don't understand why this needs to be a thing.

Also, is the bit about assault marines being able to use melts or plasma guns new? Seems like a pretty big buff for them, since their flamers aren't very good anyway and useless on the turn they drop in.

Razorbacks and Rhinos still explode on a 1 when shooting plasma.

Dire Avengers still pay a laughable amount of points for their catapuls, making them stupidly overpriced.

Predators (loyalist and chaos) still have the same T as Rhinos, Razorbacks and Whirlwinds (T7), while Vindicators, Stalkers and Hunters rock T8.

Yeah this Errata isn't done yet...

 koooaei wrote:
I wrote about undersized unit exploit on the fb page. That's what they answered:
"Seems like this one needs looking at by the studio."

Let's hope they fix it and return the rulebook wording that as good enough and not so exploitable.

On the other thread.....we have asked and still have not seen one use of this that is a game breaker.

Can you give any examples of 'exploitable' that is over powering[u]??




Automatically Appended Next Post:
To fill out that many slots for a Brigade +9 cp, I think it adds to the range of 150 or so points.

That is like a Battle Tank. A lot o pretty ineffective units to gain 6 or more CP or a Battle Tank.

HOW is this a fantastic gain? Perhaps a marginal advantage at best til I see some real 'exploitable unit'