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GAdvance wrote:
In all those previous threads the acolytes were both cheaper and able to take other armour.

As it is they are 8pt veterans with bolters and a 6 man maximum

So after everything's said and done, you're paying 2 points more for a different weapon arrangement (which includes combi-weapons, flamers, etc), the ordo-specific effect of quarry, the ability to take a bullet for the inquisitor herself, and free choice to take any dedicated transport you want.

I am simultaneously not surprised by the rule change and disappointed I probably won't get much use out of the 20 stormbolter acolytes i have had modeled up since 5th edition.

They are now basically just a Inquisition flavor of a command squad, but there isn't a lot of reason to take them over guard variants, and are nowhere near as interesting as they would have been with more than 1 wound.

Mostly there to serve as a Command Squad equivalent for an Inquisitor... not sure who in their right mind would think a 3-wound guardsman that can take Plasma Guns, Meltaguns, Stormbolters, and the like is at all balanced.

60pts for 6 Stormbolters on 18 wounds? I'll take that, thx.

So, well warranted 'nerf' there.

I think the ultimate problem with an 'Inquisition-only' type list is the kind of variety people are looking for was better served in that 'Inquisitor' rule set that was out awhile back; the type of 'larger scale' combat Wh40k is oriented towards, Inquisitors fit better as attachments rather than the primary force... that, or a 'Kill-team'/Infinity-esque sub-ruleset.

We'll see what the Codex books do, though I'm partly dreading their release - issues not withstanding 8th ed is fairly balanced at the moment. Codex power creep is what killed 7th ed for me.

I don't care much about the nerf... it was out of whack and needed fixing. I'm just annoyed that they really aren't playable. Inquisition needs three things: badass Inquisitors with shady psychic powers and weird alien artifacts , ragtag bands of similarly badass elite operators (a la Dan Abnett) including some xenos freaks (although don't force space monkeys on me like they're the only weirdos in the galaxy whose interests align with the Ordos), and lots of requisitioned Imperial hardware and manpower.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Welcome to Dakka, where people will complain about anything that isn't a straight up buff to their armies. Please enjoy the complimentary Ham and Cheese platter with extra salt and a side of Wine.

.

Stop it!!! I am trying not to have all your posts in my signature....too funny!@!!

 jhe90 wrote:
There regular humans...

They are effectively trainee Inquisitors, they should be far superior to Guardsmen. As it is they are IG sgt stats with better equipment options at twice the price.

3 wounds was realistically all they had going for them and while it was a bit of a crude representation t least it was something.

Pseudomonas wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
There regular humans...

They are effectively trainee Inquisitors, they should be far superior to Guardsmen.. [/i]

Why? Guardsmen would actually spend more time fighting at the front.

The acolytes spend more time torturing people

GhostRecon wrote:
Mostly there to serve as a Command Squad equivalent for an Inquisitor... not sure who in their right mind would think a 3-wound guardsman that can take Plasma Guns, Meltaguns, Stormbolters, and the like is at all balanced.

60pts for 6 Stormbolters on 18 wounds? I'll take that, thx.

So, well warranted 'nerf' there.

I think the ultimate problem with an 'Inquisition-only' type list is the kind of variety people are looking for was better served in that 'Inquisitor' rule set that was out awhile back; the type of 'larger scale' combat Wh40k is oriented towards, Inquisitors fit better as attachments rather than the primary force... that, or a 'Kill-team'/Infinity-esque sub-ruleset.

We'll see what the Codex books do, though I'm partly dreading their release - issues not withstanding 8th ed is fairly balanced at the moment. Codex power creep is what killed 7th ed for me.

Those 6 storm bolters miss half the time, and wound half the time, so those 6 storm bolters just did 6 wounds to a tac squad before saves if they just so happen to be in rapid fire range. Now, keep in mind these acolytes have 18 wounds, but those wounds were on T3, 5+ models. 60 points seems rather fair, all things considered. The acolytes weren't really OP, they were just annoying to play against.

 44Ronin wrote:


The acolytes spend more time torturing people

No, they don't.

Man they should have just changed the power level. The only point to taking them was the wargear which was appropriately priced.

I had been looking at old redemptionist models for combi flamers; which is fluff suported and look good with priests/sisters. No one was realistically going to spam acolytes. Even with 3 wounds they costed too much after wargear to spam .

Im blown :(

Pseudomonas wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:


The acolytes spend more time torturing people

No, they don't.

Sorry to bring you the news, but the first rank of an acolyte is explicator,

 44Ronin wrote:

Sorry to bring you the news, but the first rank of an acolyte is explicator,

So? That doesn't mean that they "spend all their time torturing people". They are finding and capturing those people to torture which requires skill sets and abilities beyond those found in the average guardsmen. Therefore IG stats are a pretty poor representation, especially at 8ppm.

Pseudomonas wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

Sorry to bring you the news, but the first rank of an acolyte is explicator,

So? That doesn't mean that they "spend all their time torturing people".

Helps if you read my post before misquoting me.

Pseudomonas wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

Sorry to bring you the news, but the first rank of an acolyte is explicator,

So? That doesn't mean that they "spend all their time torturing people". They are finding and capturing those people to torture which requires skill sets and abilities beyond those found in the average guardsmen. Therefore IG stats are a pretty poor representation, especially at 8ppm.

even if they don't spend their time just torturing people and they do a lot of fighting its still pretty hard to justify a regular human having wounds equivalent of a custodian

Just for sake of lolz argument...



Take a look at the official model...

 Purifier wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
There They're regular humans...

Most are one wound unless your you're superhuman. Or like Yarrick.
Now maybe an upgrade option to add an extra wound, like super human transition. + 1w. And a +1S on changecharge?

That argument doesn't really hold when an Inquisitor is W5, and an Acolyte is basically a would-be Inquisitor. Just becoming an Acolyte they've already shown themselves to be spectacular in some way, fluff-wise. The Inquisition is really the biggest thing any human in the empire can aspire towards, so they don't just take in any chump to start their potential training towards becoming an Inquisitor.

This was done for balance reasons. Not for fluff-reasons.

You might be thinking interrogators who are inquisitorial apprentices. Acolytes were just a way to try to represent the retinue most inquisitors tend to accumulate.

They are still only s/t 3. they got wounded much easier. Think of it this way : a custodian could get hit with a autocannon a few times before he dies, an acolyte could take a good beating from a guardsmen before he dies. Thats why we have the t stat, the number of wounds is the same sure but the beating they can take is different

 44Ronin wrote:

Helps if you read my post before misquoting me.

I think you mean "quoting" you.

A Master of Ordnance has 3 wounds, I somehow doubt that they are superlative combat specialists.

Pseudomonas wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

Helps if you read my post before misquoting me.

I think you mean "quoting" you.

A Master of Ordnance has 3 wounds, I somehow doubt that they are superlative combat specialists.

apples to oranges a Master of Ordnance is a character which GW has went to great lengths to make more survivable in this addition because no one wants there cool named HQ guy getting blown off the table turn one. They have more wounds for balance rather than flavor.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
There They're regular humans...

Most are one wound unless your you're superhuman. Or like Yarrick.
Now maybe an upgrade option to add an extra wound, like super human transition. + 1w. And a +1S on changecharge?

That argument doesn't really hold when an Inquisitor is W5, and an Acolyte is basically a would-be Inquisitor. Just becoming an Acolyte they've already shown themselves to be spectacular in some way, fluff-wise. The Inquisition is really the biggest thing any human in the empire can aspire towards, so they don't just take in any chump to start their potential training towards becoming an Inquisitor.

This was done for balance reasons. Not for fluff-reasons.

You might be thinking interrogators who are inquisitorial apprentices. Acolytes were just a way to try to represent the retinue most inquisitors tend to accumulate.

Uhmmm...

An Acolyte (sometimes referred to as an Explicator or Interrogator) is an apprentice Inquisitor given over to the tutelage of a more experienced member of the Inquisition.

Pseudomonas wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:

Helps if you read my post before misquoting me.

I think you mean "quoting" you.

A Master of Ordnance has 3 wounds, I somehow doubt that they are superlative combat specialists.

There is a big difference between "all of their time" and "more time".

Your Misquote is an invention

I was actually expecting the Acolyte nerf, as three wounds seemed like a lot, but now they of course are overcosted. This is really not about acolytes, it is about the Inquisition as whole being completely gutted, and the acolytes were the last thing that was any good and now that's gone too.

Even if you think that it's a massive Nerf, I think they are still very useful.

Just the sheer amount of weapon options mean you can tailor your force to whatever you need. With the massive buff combi weapons got, you could effectively have 3 different guns allowing 2 of them to shoot at 2 different targets.

The flexibility is there. You need to be a support force. Use them to fill in any deficient needs you have and go nuts.
Also, using needle pistols in melee is hilarious. Wounding any model that's not a vehicle on a 2+? Nice!

 Freddy Kruger wrote:
Even if you think that it's a massive Nerf, I think they are still very useful.

Just the sheer amount of weapon options mean you can tailor your force to whatever you need. With the massive buff combi weapons got, you could effectively have 3 different guns allowing 2 of them to shoot at 2 different targets.

The flexibility is there. You need to be a support force. Use them to fill in any deficient needs you have and go nuts.
Also, using needle pistols in melee is hilarious. Wounding any model that's not a vehicle on a 2+? Nice!

You get out, fire once, then die to the overwhelming fire support of a tacticle squad. Watch as your 20+ point guardsmen die to bolters!

Seriously, they're less flexible than devistators or heavy weapons teams, both of which don't need a transport/drop pod to get stuff done and do anything acolytes do with more accuracy and cheaper.

Also "support force" doesn't quite add up when your too expensive and die to a stiff breeze, any main army you'd port acolytes into would basically be better off spending the points for those combiweapons on sterngaurd, or something else that's actually able hit on better than 4s and doesnt die to bolters while costing 29 points when loaded out with combiweapons.

If you overload them they're gaurdsmen with cool weapons, so any good player will kill them off with bolters on sight, and if you run them cheap they're an 8 point gaurdsmen with no benefits from buffs that pays 3 points for an extra strength in shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
I was actually expecting the Acolyte nerf, as three wounds seemed like a lot, but now they of course are overcosted. This is really not about acolytes, it is about the Inquisition as whole being completely gutted, and the acolytes were the last thing that was any good and now that's gone too.

This is my main gripe. They've taken everything and now the big =][= is essentially just inquisitions. Everything else is basically unuseably bad or part of another army.

Would a good compromise be two wounds?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Would a good compromise be two wounds?

If you follow the thread, you'll notice that most Inquisitor players here don't really have a problem with the Acolytes going down to 1 wound. They were just already feeling deflated about the state of the Inquisition's part in the Index, and then someone realised the had gotten one shiny toy that they were trying with some effort to use to console themselves and ripped it out of their hands.

The Acolyte nerf is what nudged the barrel over, but it's not what originally filled it with horsedung.

As an aside to Acolytes not being awesome now.

Has anyone else noticed (or have a reason for) Ordo Xenos being worse than Malleus and Hereticus.

Xeno only allows you to re-roll 1's but Malleus and Hereticus allows re-roll all failed hits.

GAdvance wrote:
Yeah inquisition needs a rethink, 4+ armour inquisitors when they've almost always been in power armour in fluff and pictures etc, acolytes who serve no purpose and are overcosted.

At least the Inquisitor themself is still a neat psyker who can help out pretty much every imperium force in some way

Hang on which inquisitor in fluff and pictures had power armor?

iv only ever recalled seeing the carapace that all the current model lines have.

i guess the female ones have sister patterned corsets on.

Well damn now i want to see what a skin tight powered armor would look like