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I guess it just finally hit me... GW probably wont produce any more new space marine models in the old scale.

A few days ago I finally decided what I was going to do with my unbuilt space marine stuff. I decided to go with Black Templars. I was looking at the Grimaldus on the GW web site, wondering if they would ever make a new Grimaldus and thats when it hit me. Nope. Probably not. They are focused on new players with their 'easy build' Primaris Marines. Am I right? Are we looking at the final list of the old Marines that have been fighting for the IoM for 10,000+ years? I wish they would just give us the broad strokes of their master plan instead of hiding their intentions with this 'wait and see. Its going to be exciting' party line.

I wish they had put their efforts into updating all of the other factions. Sisters, Eldar, Vanilla Chaos, etc...

While this topic has been beat to death recently...here's the general idea:

1) Yes, Primaris Marines will likely phase out older marines - but not in a six month span. It'll likely be a slown burn, maybe even 5-10 years.

2) Primaris will get newer/cooler models and while the normal marine line will probably stay in production..."new" releases will be minimal or less than inspiring.

3) They're not going to turn the lights out any time soon and remove classic Space Marines from the game.

So, in short - is it worth starting a Space Marine army? Sure, they're still Space Marines, still have a lot of units and will be playable for a long time. If you're hoping to be building a new and evolving force over the next 5-10 years? Maybe not so much.

There will be mountains of Space Marine models available for decades - but if you're hoping for a lot of new and up-to-date kits? That'll be the only real issue.

Remember that Space Marines will have a much larger variety of options than the Primaris forces, for a long, long time.

They also have probably the healthiest resale market of any collection of minis for any game out there, and will for a long, long time.

It's why they are only a supplemental force right now.

Ok, no more salty threads from me. It's just a hard pill to swallow. I dont like the realization that the army I have spent the last 4 years building, painting and playing will come to an end. It might be easier if I liked the new direction. I know a lot of people like the Primaris though, and I think that's great.

I do enjoy the new rules and I'm happy about that.

Oh, I know how you might feel! I have 2,000pts each of Ultramarines, Legion of the Damned, and Space Wolves 13th Company, with a very large portion of the Ultras (and a Chaos force, too) dating back to 2nd edition. I've painted probably 75 Space Marines over the last 20 years, and then these new ones come along!

To be fair, what more do marines need for new releases? All of our options are in newish plastic kits and the core unit kits are less than three years old. All I could really ask for is an updated biker kit and that's not off the table entirely. Plus, I have never heard anything from Games Workshop to suggest older marines will be invalidated. Likely Space Marines will become a second tier army that will only see occasional Codex/model updates like Imperial Guard. Likely by next year Primaris will have their own Codex.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
To be fair, what more do marines need for new releases? All of our options are in newish plastic kits and the core unit kits are less than three years old. All I could really ask for is an updated biker kit and that's not off the table entirely. Plus, I have never heard anything from Games Workshop to suggest older marines will be invalidated. Likely Space Marines will become a second tier army that will only see occasional Codex/model updates like Imperial Guard. Likely by next year Primaris will have their own Codex.

Currently I would like to see a new Grimaldus, a new emperors champion, a new Tiguaris, and a new Sicarius. But 40k is an all encompasing hobby for me. The first thing I got into, years before I started buying models, was the books. And if they phase out the old marines then the characters and their stories go with them. If primaris marines become their flagship line then that means mostly primaris books. And quite frankly the Primaris story is awkward.

They aren't going to phase out old marines. It makes no business sense for them to get rid of their most popular faction. It would just lose them money

 CrownAxe wrote:
They aren't going to phase out old marines. It makes no business sense for them to get rid of their most popular faction. It would just lose them money

They won't be most popular faction in few years. No new player is gonna buy the stunties if they can get the primaris instead.

 Crimson wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
They aren't going to phase out old marines. It makes no business sense for them to get rid of their most popular faction. It would just lose them money

They won't be most popular faction in few years. No new player is gonna buy the stunties if they can get the primaris instead.

Why not? They have different lore, different models, different unit choices. Plenty of reasons to choose them over slightly taller marines

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
They aren't going to phase out old marines. It makes no business sense for them to get rid of their most popular faction. It would just lose them money

They won't be most popular faction in few years. No new player is gonna buy the stunties if they can get the primaris instead.

Why not? They have different lore, different models, different unit choices. Plenty of reasons to choose them over slightly taller marines

They don't look as cool.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
They aren't going to phase out old marines. It makes no business sense for them to get rid of their most popular faction. It would just lose them money

They won't be most popular faction in few years. No new player is gonna buy the stunties if they can get the primaris instead.

Why not? They have different lore, different models, different unit choices. Plenty of reasons to choose them over slightly taller marines

Just look at how many current/old players like them already...

Primaris will definitely phase out "regular" marines by next edition, most likely.

Three things fluff-wise that will probably make this true:


1: Many chapters have been *totally* wiped out. Gone. So right off the bat there are now lesser regular marines.


2: There are now ENTIRE chapters of primaris. Expect more primaris only chapters to keep springing up over time.


3: Regular marines can basically be "upgraded" to primaris. I suspect a good amount of chapters will at the very least get most of their marines "upgraded".


4: A lot of chapters are so battle-worn that some are barely a chapter anymore. They've lost so many marines that the primaris reinforcements they will get MIGHT make up 50% or more of the chapter.




So, yeah, at least fluff wise, over time, the regular marines will eventually be phased out in probably 3-4 years. The chapters that may initially refuse primaris *anything* may be conveniently destroyed by GW. I think its sad, but that's how it goes. The fluff will meet the business end of things.

 Kellevil wrote:
Ok, no more salty threads from me. It's just a hard pill to swallow. I dont like the realization that the army I have spent the last 4 years building, painting and playing will come to an end. It might be easier if I liked the new direction. I know a lot of people like the Primaris though, and I think that's great.

I do enjoy the new rules and I'm happy about that.

Well at least you should be happy they didn't terminate your whole game like they did with wfb.

Its a good thing GW are exploring new options. The bigger models seem much easier to paint and look impressive on the table. Cannot see why they would want to go back to the older style, nor should they.

I still think they should have just called them marines and if they really wanted a better stat line just change it for all of them.

 Kellevil wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
They aren't going to phase out old marines. It makes no business sense for them to get rid of their most popular faction. It would just lose them money

They won't be most popular faction in few years. No new player is gonna buy the stunties if they can get the primaris instead.

Why not? They have different lore, different models, different unit choices. Plenty of reasons to choose them over slightly taller marines

Just look at how many current/old players like them already...

I like the look of Primaris marines but I wouldn't just throw away my old collection. Plus from the looks of it I would take tactical squads over Primaris squads because they seem much more flexibile. Not to mention that basic space marines have much more customization options.

For me as a current Space Marine player with about 3000~ worth of regular astartes models the Primaris are just more support units. Like Centurions.

Despite the doom mongering I believe Primaris will likely occupy a similar role that Stormcast Eternals do with older Astartes being like the Empire. It just seems silly that GW would axe plastic kits that they released 2-3 years ago not to mention ruin cross-compatibility with the Horus Heresy miniatures which are big sellers.

Gibs55 wrote:
Its a good thing GW are exploring new options. The bigger models seem much easier to paint and look impressive on the table. Cannot see why they would want to go back to the older style, nor should they.

I still think they should have just called them marines and if they really wanted a better stat line just change it for all of them.

Yeah, if they had just said the space marines were getting a new pattern of armor and that we could look forward to all of the chapters being equipped with the new armor and new vehicles for the new crusade I think I would be ok with it. Even with the new scale. Then I could look forward to all of the old stuff being brought up to date. as it is now I have to learn to stomach the new characters replacing the old.

No, IG is like the Freeguild (Empire), old marines are like... uh... worse Stormcasts. (So maybe like Grail Knights, I.E. weaker divinely blessed knights; and they're gone.)

Even in the fluff old marines are being phased out. The upgraded astartes process has existed and been available to chapters for hundred years (the timeline has moved) so I really doubt there has been many new old style marines created. They're literally dying out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kellevil wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
Its a good thing GW are exploring new options. The bigger models seem much easier to paint and look impressive on the table. Cannot see why they would want to go back to the older style, nor should they.

I still think they should have just called them marines and if they really wanted a better stat line just change it for all of them.

Yeah, if they had just said the space marines were getting a new pattern of armor and that we could look forward to all of the chapters being equipped with the new armor and new vehicles for the new crusade I think I would be ok with it. Even with the new scale. Then I could look forward to all of the old stuff being brought up to date. as it is now I have to learn to stomach the new characters replacing the old.

Agreed. The fluff justification is painful. I'd have preferred had it just been new gear and new scale. That has happened to marines several time before.

Though as for characters, it is possible that they might remain, as Pete Foley said that it is possible to upgrade existing marines into primaris (though this information is suspiciously absent in other sources.)

A PMarine stands taller than the front end of my Lightning Strike fighter.

I think I'll stick with the stunties... or can we start calling them Squats now!? YES!

 Crimson wrote:
No, IG is like the Freeguild (Empire), old marines are like... uh... worse Stormcasts. (So maybe like Grail Knights, I.E. weaker divinely blessed knights; and they're gone.)

Even in the fluff old marines are being phased out. The upgraded astartes process has existed and been available to chapters for hundred years (the timeline has moved) so I really doubt there has been many new old style marines created. They're literally dying out.

Today, yes, but when the switch was made from WHFB to AoS the Empire was replaced as Sigmar's boys with the Stormcast Eternals. I'm not a total expert on Warhammer Lore but it did seem the Empire was the kind of sort "main characters" of WHFB along with the High Elves. The Stormcast Eternals replaced both in that role but neither faction strictly speaking has been done away with. They just aren't the focus of the story anymore. Bretonnia was a different case entirely. Bretonnia occupied a similar role to the Sisters of Battle. I'm very surprised that the Sisters have lasted as long as they have, as an aisde.

On point two I kind of agree and disagree. I agree that the Primaris marines have likely taken over in new Astartes production with some chapters of the Adeptus Astartes but surely the tradition driven and independent marines would be somewhat suspicious of Cawl and Guilliman's new golden boys? Plus AFAIK there is no confirmation in a published source that no old style Astartes are being produced. And if they were dying out then it would take a very long time for the older marines to die especially if the Primaris Marines are taking the brunt of the action nowadays.

I personally would've liked it if the Primaris had more flaws compared to the older marines like not being as creative/independent (Hence why their squads are equipped with identical load outs) or they are considered expendable shock troops with limited life spans like the Thunder Warriors. Would've made for more compelling drama than them being +1 marines. Ah well.

I wonder if GW understood that people would take it this way...

I mean, the recent creation of Deathwatch, MK IV and III heresy armor, and so on, makes me think that GW has no intention of discontinuing the old scale. The complete inability of Primaris marines to fit in anything other than Primaris vehicles makes them seem like GW meant for us to see the, as odd side-items to the main marine line, like Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Custodes, etc.

The trouble is, to make them popular, they decided all chapters could replace combat losses with them. And, although until Cadia fell producing a Rhino required prayer and hard work, and a new suit of power armor was described as taking a century of hand labor, now suddenly we can crank out MKX armor and Primaris tech sufficient to literally give it away.

It's created a panic, that in short order Rhinos and Landraiders will be gone, and all we'll have left are Repulsors and what ever else they dream up.

And here's what I think GW didn't get - humans are more Ork-like than we like to admit. And, if the new heroes are bigger and stronger and tougher and better equipped, it's gong to make the big, strong, tough, well equipped look lesser in comparison. In short, we'll want them to replace our old stuff just to feel like our marines are the big special ones again, and not second best.

 Kellevil wrote:
I guess it just finally hit me... GW probably wont produce any more new space marine models in the old scale.

A few days ago I finally decided what I was going to do with my unbuilt space marine stuff. I decided to go with Black Templars. I was looking at the Grimaldus on the GW web site, wondering if they would ever make a new Grimaldus and thats when it hit me. Nope. Probably not. They are focused on new players with their 'easy build' Primaris Marines. Am I right? Are we looking at the final list of the old Marines that have been fighting for the IoM for 10,000+ years? I wish they would just give us the broad strokes of their master plan instead of hiding their intentions with this 'wait and see. Its going to be exciting' party line.

I wish they had put their efforts into updating all of the other factions. Sisters, Eldar, Vanilla Chaos, etc...

Yes, GW would entirely stop producing and marketing its largest and best selling product line.

/s

Oggthrok wrote:

And here's what I think GW didn't get - humans are more Ork-like than we like to admit. And, if the new heroes are bigger and stronger and tougher and better equipped, it's gong to make the big, strong, tough, well equipped look lesser in comparison. In short, we'll want them to replace our old stuff just to feel like our marines are the big special ones again, and not second best.

How many "elite of the elite of the elites" have we been through now? Terminators, Grey Knights, Vanguard, Sternguard, Deathwatch, Primaris, whatever else I'm forgetting? Vanilla marines are basically one of the lower tiers of Imperial troops these days. It hasn't stopped people from using them yet.

Primaris marines are so ugly than in a few years they would be completely replaced by regular marines

Seriously people, just don't buy those awful miniatures.

 Blackie wrote:
Primaris marines are so ugly than in a few years they would be completely replaced by regular marines

Seriously people, just don't buy those awful miniatures.

Yeah, opinions aren't real. Everyone just thinks the way you do, and can't like things you dislike.

Seriously people, just buy whatever miniatures you want.

I think the numarines look amazing. I even like the jump pack guys.

Do we know much of the background for Primaris yet?

I know there's been mention that existing Astartes can be upgraded, and that a Primaris has the full suite of additional organs.

That to me suggests they're more labour intensive to create - and may form a sort of Special Forces for the Chapters, whilst they continue standard recruitment for the bulk of their fighting forces.

Speculative of course, as I'm not that up on their background, or aware that much has really been confirmed/revealed in print.

fe40k wrote:


Yes, GW would entirely replace/update its largest and best selling product line.

Fixed that for you

I wish they would have just updated the standard Space Marine statsline and updated their space marine model range, instead of introducing primaris marines as a separate breed of even-more-super-than-super-soldiers. Oh well.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do we know much of the background for Primaris yet?

I know there's been mention that existing Astartes can be upgraded, and that a Primaris has the full suite of additional organs.

That to me suggests they're more labour intensive to create - and may form a sort of Special Forces for the Chapters, whilst they continue standard recruitment for the bulk of their fighting forces.

Speculative of course, as I'm not that up on their background, or aware that much has really been confirmed/revealed in print.

we'll know when codex space marines hits. until then, we're clueless. all we know is Primaris Marines have 3 additional organs. we have no idea how important they are though, as Space Marine orgins can run from critically important (black carapiece, or the second heart) to "... honestly thats cool but not too iomportant" (looking at you acid spitting gland)

I doubt standard marines are gonna go anywhere, yes in universe they're proably gonna eventually be phased out but thats the far future in setting. GW's got plenty of good reasons to keep em, and those outweight the advantages of keeping em, phasing out standard marines anytime soon would have a HORRIABLE backlash. and GW knows it. I know we like to occasionally bash on GW but they're not COMPLETE idiots