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Great thread. Subbed for updates.

Looking forward to seeing what we'll get.

Can still play a daemon in a chaos space marine army? Or vice versa?

casdark wrote:
Can still play a daemon in a chaos space marine army? Or vice versa?

Yes. In fact demons have a rule called demonic ritual where if a chaos character doesn't move, he can summon demons onto the field.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:
Can still play a daemon in a chaos space marine army? Or vice versa?

Yes. In fact demons have a rule called demonic ritual where if a chaos character doesn't move, he can summon demons onto the field.

We have to buy a lot codex!

casdark wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:
Can still play a daemon in a chaos space marine army? Or vice versa?

Yes. In fact demons have a rule called demonic ritual where if a chaos character doesn't move, he can summon demons onto the field.

We have to buy a lot codex!

Isn't that the same as before? Daemons and CSM were separate ever since 5th ed.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:
Can still play a daemon in a chaos space marine army? Or vice versa?

Yes. In fact demons have a rule called demonic ritual where if a chaos character doesn't move, he can summon demons onto the field.

We have to buy a lot codex!

Isn't that the same as before? Daemons and CSM were separate ever since 5th ed.

I started in 8th edition. I don't know how worked before

casdark wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:
Can still play a daemon in a chaos space marine army? Or vice versa?

Yes. In fact demons have a rule called demonic ritual where if a chaos character doesn't move, he can summon demons onto the field.

We have to buy a lot codex!

Isn't that the same as before? Daemons and CSM were separate ever since 5th ed.

I started in 8th edition. I don't know how worked before

Oh right.
Well, 3rd ed demons and CSM both shared the same book.
Then GW decided that was no good, so in 5th ed they made them separate armies.
Then in 6th ed they decided they can let them ally in demons.
Then in 7th ed they decided that everyone can now summon demons. Everyone.
Now in 8th ed its only chaos characters (both CSM and Demon) who can summon demons, but they are still technically separate armies. Demons might be in the CSM book, but I doubt it.
You would only need like 2 codices anyway. Unless you want to like, play all of the chaos.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

casdark wrote:
Can still play a daemon in a chaos space marine army? Or vice versa?

Yes. In fact demons have a rule called demonic ritual where if a chaos character doesn't move, he can summon demons onto the field.

We have to buy a lot codex!

Isn't that the same as before? Daemons and CSM were separate ever since 5th ed.

I started in 8th edition. I don't know how worked before

Oh right.
Well, 3rd ed demons and CSM both shared the same book.
Then GW decided that was no good, so in 5th ed they made them separate armies.
Then in 6th ed they decided they can let them ally in demons.
Then in 7th ed they decided that everyone can now summon demons. Everyone.
Now in 8th ed its only chaos characters (both CSM and Demon) who can summon demons, but they are still technically separate armies. Demons might be in the CSM book, but I doubt it.
You would only need like 2 codices anyway. Unless you want to like, play all of the chaos.

I want play chaos daemon. I suppose that some model, like magnus, will be on chaos codex.

If you just want to play chaos demon, then you only need the demon book when it comes out. I'd be very surprised if they decided to break up the 4 gods into different books. I know they will do that to the CSM, because you already have the Death Guard separate from the Chaos Codex.

Wait.. so.. if I want to play Alpha Legion.. is that still even a thing? Armies like Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers.. I'm gonna guess there's a main book? But if you want a squad of Berzerkers and a squad of Deathguard and maybe some Furies or a greater demon then that's what.. 4 codices you need? Sounds like a bit of a fleecing if you ask me.. and something I'll not be in a hurry to jump into... despite already putting together my Alpha Legion list :/

 MLaw wrote:
Wait.. so.. if I want to play Alpha Legion.. is that still even a thing? Armies like Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers.. I'm gonna guess there's a main book? But if you want a squad of Berzerkers and a squad of Deathguard and maybe some Furies or a greater demon then that's what.. 4 codices you need? Sounds like a bit of a fleecing if you ask me.. and something I'll not be in a hurry to jump into... despite already putting together my Alpha Legion list :/

More likely you're looking at something like this:
-Daemons of Chaos will have rules for fielding all of the Daemons you might want. Furies, Great Unclean Ones, everybody.
-Death Guard will have rules for fielding all of the Nurgle stuff you might want. Plague Marines, Nurgle Daemons, everybody.
-Thousand Sons will have Tzeentch rules.
-Whatever Khorne book we get will have his stuff.
-Slaanesh will have its stuff.
-Main CSM book will have a smattering of the "basic" stuff from the four Gods(Plague Marines, Thousand Sons Legionnaires, Berzerkers, etc) and be focused more upon the unaligned stuff and include a smattering of the "basic" Daemons.

This is pure speculation based upon the way we've seen stuff done for Age of Sigmar mind you, but it feels right as it does not mandate someone get all the books if they want to do a hodgepodge force without going too heavily specialized into one branch or another.

 MLaw wrote:
Wait.. so.. if I want to play Alpha Legion.. is that still even a thing? Armies like Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers.. I'm gonna guess there's a main book? But if you want a squad of Berzerkers and a squad of Deathguard and maybe some Furies or a greater demon then that's what.. 4 codices you need? Sounds like a bit of a fleecing if you ask me.. and something I'll not be in a hurry to jump into... despite already putting together my Alpha Legion list :/

That's a good question.
Here's how I'm thinking it will be broken down -

The God Specific armies would all get their own books, and the dataslates would reflect this. Ie, Berserkers as troops in a World Eaters army.

The main CSM codex will be for everyone else / generic chaos marine armies. All of the cult troops would still be in there, but as elites as usual.
Maybe there will be a minor section for Word Bearers, Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors, kind of like how it is in the codex.
That's how I'm thinking it will be organized. Probably super wrong, but I guess we'll see when the codex comes out soon.

I'm expecting [Legion] rules in the CSM codex for Black legion, iron Warriors, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Word bearers and Red corsairs. Possibly also for Crimson Slaughter (I thought they'd destroy them after Traitors Hate, but they still appeared in the rulebook.).
In the rulebook they also mentioned The Purge as one of the larger renegade factions, but I guess these would be represented by a CSM force using mainly the mark of Nurgle and not necessarily getting their own rules.
As there were already placeholders for the monogod-legions I don't expect these to appear in the Codex (again). We'll get rules for marks probably, which, together with the index, will make it possible to already build a World Eaters Force - until they get their own codex as well.

Of course that is all speculation as well - based on what's presented the index and rulebook though.

Codex wise its shaping up to look like
Codex death guard
Codex thousand sons
Codex world eaters
Codex emperors children
Codex chaos space marines (generic chaos and non god legions)
Codex chaos daemons

 Motograter wrote:
Codex wise its shaping up to look like
Codex death guard
Codex thousand sons
Codex world eaters
Codex emperors children
Codex chaos space marines (generic chaos and non god legions)
Codex chaos daemons

Out of curiosity, what are you basing this off of? Did I miss a schedule leak?

Plague Marines datasheet (from the First Strike boxed game)

Via Miniwars/Natfka/Spikeybits

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
As long as Plague Marines get their Bolt Pistols back and 2 attacks, I'll consider this new codex a win.

I want to mention that, while it seems we probably won't get our bolt pistols back, what might happen is DG get some variant on true grit back, which allowed boltguns to act as bolt pistols for the purpose of close combat. This is apparently what they had in older books, rather than being equipped with bolt pistols. In this edition, it'd probably mean being able to fire them in close combat, possibly even at other units locked in close combat with other allies, which would be very interesting,

That's just guessing based off how many things seem to resemble old 4th edition DG rules so far. Personally I'm hoping for something to make plague marines more than just an overpriced special weapon delivery system.

 MLaw wrote:
Wait.. so.. if I want to play Alpha Legion.. is that still even a thing? Armies like Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers.. I'm gonna guess there's a main book? But if you want a squad of Berzerkers and a squad of Deathguard and maybe some Furies or a greater demon then that's what.. 4 codices you need? Sounds like a bit of a fleecing if you ask me.. and something I'll not be in a hurry to jump into... despite already putting together my Alpha Legion list :/

Codex:CSM should include rules for running every non cult legion, and any unit they can take. Which will include cult units, at least the classic ones, as they can be taken as members of any legion currently (even if that's mainly fluffy for black legion, maybe word bearers). The death guard specific codex will presumably include things for running an entirely DG force, including units that onl DG can take (poxwalkers for example) as well as units they share with CSM. The same will presumably occur with the other cult legions eventually.

So you shouldn't need multiple codices to run a CSM or DG army. However, I'm sure many of us who play DG will end up owning both in the end, as many existing units we already own wouldn't work in a pure DG force and would need to be part of an allied CSM detachment. But if you aren't interested in owning a DG army, you should be fine.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plague Marines datasheet (from the First Strike boxed game)

Via Miniwars/Natfka/Spikeybits

Its the exact data sheet from the Chaos Index, with the <Mark of chaos> <Leigon> Criteria filled in on the keywords.

Sorry I have been so absent, just joined a new gaming club so have been very active with that.

I am hoping we get more than just than tank, as we will be struggling to be competitive at this stage.

Sharazad87 wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plague Marines datasheet (from the First Strike boxed game)

Via Miniwars/Natfka/Spikeybits

Its the exact data sheet from the Chaos Index, with the <Mark of chaos> <Leigon> Criteria filled in on the keywords.

They don't have "Death to the false emperor".

I really hope we get true grit back, it was great before.
Would make them a bit more viable if they could use their bolters as just Pistol 1 weapons in CC


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

Sharazad87 wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Plague Marines datasheet (from the First Strike boxed game)

Via Miniwars/Natfka/Spikeybits

Its the exact data sheet from the Chaos Index, with the <Mark of chaos> <Leigon> Criteria filled in on the keywords.

They don't have "Death to the false emperor".

Which points to them having simpler rules in these sets and a possibility of more rules in the full book? (True grit, more weapons?)

True grit might be ok, but it wont be treating bolters as pistols in close combat. Allowing you to fire your bolters while locked in CC? Ouch. that sounds really dangerous and a little "OP"

I think it was mentioned that Units from the new starter sets wouldnt have full rules. and the Index/codex rules would "trump" the starter set rules. However saying that it is possible that the "old" units (Units mentioned in the "death guard" section of the index) would get updated rules in the Codex. as from the plague marine leaked piccys there is a weapon option *NOT* in the chaos index

I will grab a link if i can remember it. but don't quote me on this till i can find ze proof :3

I wouldn't expect a rule like True Grit when they could have just given the Death Guard a uniquely named boltgun variant.

Sharazad87 wrote:
True grit might be ok, but it wont be treating bolters as pistols in close combat. Allowing you to fire your bolters while locked in CC? Ouch. that sounds really dangerous and a little "OP"

I think it was mentioned that Units from the new starter sets wouldnt have full rules. and the Index/codex rules would "trump" the starter set rules. However saying that it is possible that the "old" units (Units mentioned in the "death guard" section of the index) would get updated rules in the Codex. as from the plague marine leaked piccys there is a weapon option *NOT* in the chaos index

I will grab a link if i can remember it. but don't quote me on this till i can find ze proof :3

Well... it might actually balance out the fact we only have one attack now... but who knows? It's just a guess based on the amount of inspiration that seems to be taken from the old codex currently.

Also, if you can find that picture it'd be appreciated, I hadn't even heard of that leak till now.

SilverAlien wrote:

Sharazad87 wrote:
True grit might be ok, but it wont be treating bolters as pistols in close combat. Allowing you to fire your bolters while locked in CC? Ouch. that sounds really dangerous and a little "OP"

I think it was mentioned that Units from the new starter sets wouldnt have full rules. and the Index/codex rules would "trump" the starter set rules. However saying that it is possible that the "old" units (Units mentioned in the "death guard" section of the index) would get updated rules in the Codex. as from the plague marine leaked piccys there is a weapon option *NOT* in the chaos index

I will grab a link if i can remember it. but don't quote me on this till i can find ze proof :3

Well... it might actually balance out the fact we only have one attack now... but who knows? It's just a guess based on the amount of inspiration that seems to be taken from the old codex currently.

Also, if you can find that picture it'd be appreciated, I hadn't even heard of that leak till now.

The piccys is on the first page of this thread. The plague marines pictures in the spoiler tag. the top marine has a 2h looking weapon. Now its either a type of power maul/weapon. or a new weapon option as chaos champions cant take thunder hammers / scythes etc in the Chaos index weargear section.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
As long as Plague Marines get their Bolt Pistols back and 2 attacks, I'll consider this new codex a win.

I doubt that'll happen, I think rather a more realistic wish would be to wish for some type of new CQC unit

Sharazad87 wrote:
The piccys is on the first page of this thread. The plague marines pictures in the spoiler tag. the top marine has a 2h looking weapon. Now its either a type of power maul/weapon. or a new weapon option as chaos champions cant take thunder hammers / scythes etc in the Chaos index weargear section.

Oh I misunderstood, thought there was a leaked plague marine entry from the codex that showed additional weapon options. I did forget about the flail thing though.

Can the First Strike datasheet be used in a regular army? because it has a smaller minimum unit size, and a higher concentration of special weapons than a normal Plague Marine squad, I could see it having some utility (especially managing to pack a 7-man squad and a 3-man squad in a rhino - or 3 3-man squads and a character

We should get Bolt Pistols back, it's part of our background that Mortarion ordered the Death Guard ALL be trained with bolter, pistol and CCW to be ready for any situation, giving us dedicated combat units would undermine that

I have missed that the blight launcher rules came already in the index, thanks for pointing out

Another picture of the Plague Burst Crawler via Brother Dimetrius on B&C



The daemon prince shown seems to be a conversion using bits from the current kit

While it's still another distorted image, the more I see of the Plagueburst Crawler the more I'm liking it. I can see it looking really nice with a green paint job and covered in rust and corrosion.

I'm interested to see what those sponsons do. The cannon is going to be pretty strong, going by the size of its barrel, but those sponsons could be either close quarters defence or even anti-tank.
I'm also curious as to what the stubby, three-barrelled gun on the front is (if it's even a gun). Looks almost like the front of autocannon barrels sticking out, or maybe just a heavy stubber but has a heap of shots?
Looks like it will have some serious defence too, going by how chunky the armour plating is.

I'm excited for the real announcement when we actually get confirmation of what it does