Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

SilverAlien wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
So you drop down and flame him turn 1, IF he doesn't have Plaguewalkers screening him, then you do about 7 wounds, IF you roll average, then you charge in, IF you make the charge and IF Morty doesn't have a screen. Killshotting Magnus would do about 3 wounds to Magnus. Then Magnus and Morty could just fly off and ignore your 650pt deathstar and tear apart the rest of your army.

Chances are, you don't kill either turn 1 because you won't be playing against an idiot, then the other 1350pts of your army gets gacked up by the dream team.

How are poxwalkers keeping up with warptime morty? I was assuming you'd get the first turn because half your army was three drops tbh and you literally described you strategy as warptime morty and charge turn one. They also have a sorcerer with warptime so unless I roll snake eyes the charge is going through. I mean, you can slowly advance morty and Magnus behind a screen of poxwalkers, it'll just be funny when they take 2-3 turns to get anywhere taking fire every turn. At that point, consider normal demon princes?

Oh so I'm going first? So Morty has already hit your deployment zone and done quite a bit of damage already? Alright then, on your turn I accept that Morty will probably die to your deathstar. And then Magnus will go to town on your army along with 1000pts of whatever else has been brought with the match up (maybe 100-300pts of that is the changeling and troops tax), your deathstar can't catch up to anything else after that and has no range and Magnus is very unlikely to be brought down by anything else, even killshot predators will make him chuckle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BroodSpawn wrote:
How are you guaranteeing your charge and being within flamer range T1 when deepstriking?

Warptime, if it goes off.

BroodSpawn wrote:
How are you guaranteeing your charge and being within flamer range T1 when deepstriking?

Warptime, letting me move during the psychic phase for a nice 4" charge distance. It's a staple of all good CSM terminator builds, and it's likely exclusion from DG is a major setback for our terminators.

SilverAlien wrote:

BroodSpawn wrote:
How are you guaranteeing your charge and being within flamer range T1 when deepstriking?

Warptime, letting me move during the psychic phase for a nice 4" charge distance. It's a staple of all good CSM terminator builds, and it's likely exclusion from DG is a major setback for our terminators.

Except when you just take a cheap CSM detachment like WE do.

Except with warptime that deathstar has only a roughly ~40% chance of getting in and is still out of range of it's target.

Look I'm not going to argue stats on how survivable Morty is, tbh I expect him to be difficult to shift, just that the probability of a 650pt 'star killing something of that size is not as guaranteed as it's been made out to be.

So GW have posted 3 artocles on the community page today where is the promised DG reveal

The weirdest part is that people are arguing how easily they can kill the single model that we have only part of the facts on. Heck, we don't even know his real point cost. Power Level wildly varies sometimes. We also don't know all of his abilities. We don't even know what the other Death Guard powers or traits might be.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Oh so I'm going first? So Morty has already hit your deployment zone and done quite a bit of damage already? Alright then, on your turn I accept that Morty will probably die to your deathstar. And then Magnus will go to town on your army along with 1000pts of whatever else has been brought with the match up (maybe 100-300pts of that is the changeling and troops tax), your deathstar can't catch up to anything else after that and has no range and Magnus is very unlikely to be brought down by anything else, even killshot predators will make him chuckle.

How do they need to catch up? They have a warptime sorcerer and are standing next to the rest of the army.

Which again... Is screened by cultists. So Morty managed to kill some cultists turn one. I run a couple sets of 30, so I don't really think Morty is clearing either of those tarpits turn one, even the most horrifically overpowered version of silence will struggle to let a 6 attack model clear 30 models. With fearless of course, go iron warriors! So Morty maybe did 80 points of damage if we wanna be real optimistic.

You are literally throwing away a 500 point model to use as a distraction carnifex and inflict token amounts of damage. You didn't even pull me out of position because your other melee beat stick is following him straight in.

Considering we can estimate that Mortarion will be about 450-500 points the idea of someone spending 650 points to kill him isn't really that scary? If anything it makes him sound pretty resilient?

BroodSpawn wrote:
Except with warptime that deathstar has only a roughly ~40% chance of getting in and is still out of range of it's target.

Look I'm not going to argue stats on how survivable Morty is, tbh I expect him to be difficult to shift, just that the probability of a 650pt 'star killing something of that size is not as guaranteed as it's been made out to be.

Deepstrike 9" away. Warp time 5" closer, now 4" away. That's within flamer range and is 90% chance of getting the charge.

So instead of putting out the death guard article as soon as possible, they throw out a poorly written comedy article about squigs to appeal to the average, memespewing 40k fan. Alright then.

Qlanth wrote:
Considering we can estimate that Mortarion will be about 450-500 points the idea of someone spending 650 points to kill him isn't really that scary? If anything it makes him sound pretty resilient?

By contrast, it's generally excepted you are doing well to kill an equal point value of guard infantry or brimstone in one turn using twice their value in a hard counter. Killing something worth around 75% of my unit despite not being particular optimized for it isn't impressive. Inte he slightest. It's actually fairly fragile.

What are people hoping to see with the new psychic powers?

I think as many people have touched on, some kind of mobility increase will be pretty sorely needed. I have my doubts about whether that will come.... seems more likely that we will get another type of survivability power?

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
So instead of putting out the death guard article as soon as possible, they throw out a poorly written comedy article about squigs to appeal to the average, memespewing 40k fan. Alright then.

Yeah I've been just killing time in dakka waiting but I'm starting to wonder if it got pushed back a day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Qlanth wrote:
What are people hoping to see with the new psychic powers?

I think as many people have touched on, some kind of mobility increase will be pretty sorely needed. I have my doubts about whether that will come.... seems more likely that we will get another type of survivability power?

We've got durability, horde clearing, and a debuff. We will likely get an offensive buff, a targeted attack, and either another offensive power or a healing power.

SilverAlien wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Oh so I'm going first? So Morty has already hit your deployment zone and done quite a bit of damage already? Alright then, on your turn I accept that Morty will probably die to your deathstar. And then Magnus will go to town on your army along with 1000pts of whatever else has been brought with the match up (maybe 100-300pts of that is the changeling and troops tax), your deathstar can't catch up to anything else after that and has no range and Magnus is very unlikely to be brought down by anything else, even killshot predators will make him chuckle.

How do they need to catch up? They have a warptime sorcerer and are standing next to the rest of the army.

Which again... Is screened by cultists. So Morty managed to kill some cultists turn one. I run a couple sets of 30, so I don't really think Morty is clearing either of those tarpits turn one, even the most horrifically overpowered version of silence will struggle to let a 6 attack model clear 30 models. With fearless of course, go iron warriors! So Morty maybe did 80 points of damage if we wanna be real optimistic.

You are literally throwing away a 500 point model to use as a distraction carnifex and inflict token amounts of damage. You didn't even pull me out of position because your other melee beat stick is following him straight in.

Magnus has Warptime too, so it's your 10" movement versus his 32" movement, also his warptime is more likely to go off every time (if that warptime doesn't go off turn 1 for you then that's it, Morty is away and your deathstar is stranded, again).

That's assuming Morty doesn't get something like a sweeping attack that wrecks any model with 3" or damage spills over, we don't know his rules yet so we don't know what other secret weapons he'll be packing.

A 500pt model that will soak up your entire army's fire for a turn or 2 depending on how lucky you get, a 500pt model that will likely wreck anything he touches: he could yet be able to smash a 10 man unit of termies easy, we don't know. From what we've seen so far, he can survive a lot and do a lot of damage, that's without knowing: his points cost, his other special rules, his weapon's stats, his psychic powers, codex wide rules, strategems and whatever other units we'll have to support him. It takes you 650+pts to take him down before we even know what else he has, by the end of the week you may need 1000+pts.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/05/death-guard-warlord-traits-stratagems-and-relicsgw-homepage-post-2/

Again, what exactly is Magnus doing? He's another melee beatstick, unless he is charging the bulk of my forces I'm not going to bother going after him. And we've established my terminators are right there. He may be faster, but kiting doesn't accomplish anything. Even getting in smite range virtually guarantees he can be charged.

If silence does a flat 3 wounds that carry over per hit, and autohits and autowounds, and his bomb kills another 9 and his aura goes off for max damage he would barely clear the 30 man unit. It's extremely unlikely he'll manage it.

Like I said, you can keep thinking morty will have tons more stuff despite already having a frankly absurd number of special rules. Personally, don't think it's likely.

zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/05/death-guard-warlord-traits-stratagems-and-relicsgw-homepage-post-2/

Yikes. Mortarion with 3+/4++ 4+ FNP is possible with just warlord traits. We haven't even seen powers yet.. The one to perform a secondary 7" mortal wound nuke is scary to consider too.

All the codexes so far made named characters get stuck with specific warlord traits. So no sense in assuming that Morty can get the 4+++. In fact they made it sound like those are options for other characters. Maybe one of his two auras is actually his warlord trait.

 Virules wrote:
All the codexes so far made named characters get stuck with specific warlord traits. So no sense in assuming that Morty can get the 4+++. In fact they made it sound like those are options for other characters. Maybe one of his two auras is actually his warlord trait.

You're right, I misread what they had there. It mentions Typhus and Mortarion then says "if you want your own warlord". Well crud, it sounded stupidly fun. Now to see if they give the +1 DR as a spell.

zamerion wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/05/death-guard-warlord-traits-stratagems-and-relicsgw-homepage-post-2/

Yay we finally have something new to discuss!

... I'm really getting tired of the fact half our army seems devoted to dealing mortal wounds in a radius around them. Yes it was a nice idea guys, but do we need a relic, a stratagem, a warlord trait and like four HQs all with some variation on it? I'm not saying it's a bad ability, but my god they really hammered it into the ground. They also continue to have no idea how to screen characters properly if they think 7" range will easily hit HQs but I've kinda accepted that by now.

Cloud of flies is interesting and cheap for what it offers. Helps if you get a high value unit stranded or someone punches through your screen.

Arch contaminator is interesting. Given it seems quite possible for the majority of your army to reroll ones, being able to upgrade that to reroll all failed wounds has potential. I'm curious to see how it meshes with our unique tank.

I'm actually not super impressed by revoltingly resilient. The fact it doesn't work on mortal wounds is kinda meh. I'd almost rather have the additional 6+ fnp and wound normal csm have access to.

The relics were probably the most disappointing section. You really had to show us the +1 to smite relic? The knell seems meh. The plate looks the most useful however.

Oh, and they did confirm our generic demon princes will get DR. I don't think anyone really doubted that, but it is good to confirm.

So Daemon Princes are confirmed to have Disgustingly Resiliant

And this line:
"commanding a deadly armoured column of Daemon Engines"
Is this hinting at Forge/Mauler fiends and Heldrakes entering the codex?

SilverAlien wrote:
Again, what exactly is Magnus doing? He's another melee beatstick, unless he is charging the bulk of my forces I'm not going to bother going after him. And we've established my terminators are right there. He may be faster, but kiting doesn't accomplish anything. Even getting in smite range virtually guarantees he can be charged.

If silence does a flat 3 wounds that carry over per hit, and autohits and autowounds, and his bomb kills another 9 and his aura goes off for max damage he would barely clear the 30 man unit. It's extremely unlikely he'll manage it.

Like I said, you can keep thinking morty will have tons more stuff despite already having a frankly absurd number of special rules. Personally, don't think it's likely.

Magnus can kill a Predator or 2 a turn? He's Magnus. It's already tried and tested that he can gak up the majority of armies without much help.

And if Silence gets his sweeping attack as well? He could be getting 10-20 attacks if they brought a form of sweeping attack back.

They've shown us 2 special rules, how is that already an absurd number?

Loving these strategems. Cloud of Flies is strong, as is Putrid Detonation. Loving the Warlord Traits too. The hype train is picking up steam again!

And, not sure how many noticed, but they did mention Chaos Sorcerors apart from Malignant Plaguecasters, as well as Daemon Princes.

I would actually really doubt that Mortarion will be considered infantry..so that won't help him.

I no longer want to argue as we have new stuff to discuss so you are right on all counts, now come talk about the new stuff with us!

Qlanth wrote:
So Daemon Princes are confirmed to have Disgustingly Resiliant

And this line:
"commanding a deadly armoured column of Daemon Engines"
Is this hinting at Forge/Mauler fiends and Heldrakes entering the codex?

Could be. Could be plaueburst crawler is a demon engine even if it doesn't really look it. We do have the robo crabs though, so could just be them? Maybe we do have another unit that's yet to be leaked even, excitement.

That armour relic seems pretty crazy. Mortal wounds on a 4+ for EVERY saved attack? Wowza.

The focus on mortal wounds is interesting. Not sure how I feel about the constant dirty damage over time, but dirty is one of Nurgle's middle names so it makes sense and is kinda cool.

Cloud of flies seems really awesome too. Essentially giving a unit the character rule for a turn for just 1cp too. Shame you won't be able to chuck it on Morty, but I guess that would defeat the purpose of him being targetable haha.

I'm also interested now to see what that Tallyman's aura is

 puma713 wrote:
Aww, infantry only

Which still isn't bad, it's really cheap and can let you advance something behind a wall of poxwalkers. I'm not entirely sure what unit would benefit from that I admit. Maybe deathshroud?

SilverAlien wrote:

BroodSpawn wrote:
How are you guaranteeing your charge and being within flamer range T1 when deepstriking?

Warptime, letting me move during the psychic phase for a nice 4" charge distance. It's a staple of all good CSM terminator builds, and it's likely exclusion from DG is a major setback for our terminators.

So us having Typhus or your own Sorcerer there as well to counter such shenanigans.

Not sure where you think we won't have access to Warptime. So far we get access to Index Sorcerers. They get Warptime. They might not get Disgustingly Resilient but, meh

His aura isn't his warlord trait any more than Guilliman's is. Special characters get assigned a warlord trait available to other characters, but the rules for said trait aren't spelled out in the entry. It's an assumption that Mortarion gets Revoltingly Resilient, but it seems a reasonably safe one. If Mortarion of all people don't deserve that, who would? That alone is another decent bump to his durability, and on the off-chance that he got an aura for Death Guard like Magnus did (say re-rolling 1's on DR) then you actually WOULD see Mortarion with the sort of durability we were expecting.

Cloud of Flies is easily one of the best stratagems in the game right now. The automatic explosion one is also great. And much more reliable than orbital bombardment, nurgle's rot, etc