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Visarch gains a 4++, about damn time.

Necrons being unable to use Reanimation Protocols on units that have fled is a big deal. Also, the Hive Commander and Warptime issues were cleared up. Good job, GW.

 puma713 wrote:
Necrons being unable to use Reanimation Protocols on units that have fled is a big deal. Also, the Hive Commander and Warptime issues were cleared up. Good job, GW.

Marines can;t use the Narthecium either

Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain models to a unit.

Probably do the same for Medipacks and Hospitliar's

 Mr Morden wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Necrons being unable to use Reanimation Protocols on units that have fled is a big deal. Also, the Hive Commander and Warptime issues were cleared up. Good job, GW.

Marines can;t use the Narthecium either

Q: If a model flees from an Adeptus Astartes unit, can an Apothecary use its narthecium to return a model to the unit?
A: No, the narthecium can only be used to return slain models to a unit.

Probably do the same for Medipacks and Hospitliar's

Huh, missed that one. Makes bookkeeping for those units a little more tedious, but I like their answer and reasonning.

The Necron thing seems to come from ATC. Word for word identical to the ATC FAQ on that. It wasn't really that big of a deal.

Well I'm glad I get screwed over for taking non-stormraven flyers because stormravens are spammed by WAAC players. [/s]

 Flood wrote:
Well I'm glad I get screwed over for taking non-stormraven flyers because stormravens are spammed by WAAC players. [/s]

I don't understand. Were you spamming a different sort of flyer?

If 3 stormtalons in a 2k list is spam, yes.
Three t6, 10w, 3+ with -1 to hit (most turns) is not difficult to shoot down/assault with fly units. I could equally complain about lists with two landraiders or 3+ leman russes.

 Flood wrote:
If 3 stormtalons in a 2k list is spam, yes.
Three t6, 10w, 3+ with -1 to hit (most turns) is not difficult to shoot down/assault with fly units. I could equally complain about lists with two landraiders or 3+ leman russes.

One of the main problems of all-flyer list is that few armies have Fly. Let's suppose the 6-stormraven list engages Custodes + Sisters of Silence. How can the latter do anything against the former? No charge at all!

3 stormtalons in a 2k list is completely ok because you have other stuff. The new FAQ won't really hinder your gamestyle at all.

 Flood wrote:
If 3 stormtalons in a 2k list is spam, yes.
Three t6, 10w, 3+ with -1 to hit (most turns) is not difficult to shoot down/assault with fly units. I could equally complain about lists with two landraiders or 3+ leman russes.[/quote

play bigger games or death from the skies rules

 Flood wrote:
If 3 stormtalons in a 2k list is spam, yes.
Three t6, 10w, 3+ with -1 to hit (most turns) is not difficult to shoot down/assault with fly units. I could equally complain about lists with two landraiders or 3+ leman russes.

How are you screwed? Three stormtalons are not expensive enough to prevent you from affording a lot of ground units. You should be fine, you're just taking a risk to gain fire power and mobility. That happens all the time.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Flood wrote:
If 3 stormtalons in a 2k list is spam, yes.
Three t6, 10w, 3+ with -1 to hit (most turns) is not difficult to shoot down/assault with fly units. I could equally complain about lists with two landraiders or 3+ leman russes.

One of the main problems of all-flyer list is that few armies have Fly. Let's suppose the 6-stormraven list engages Custodes + Sisters of Silence. How can the latter do anything against the former? No charge at all!

3 stormtalons in a 2k list is completely ok because you have other stuff. The new FAQ won't really hinder your gamestyle at all.

Yes, not sure how the new FAQ breaks your list - you do have other things in it that aren't fliers, don't you? Any 5+ flier list had so little battlefield presence otherwise that this FAQ goes a long way to neutering them, but 2-3 fliers in a 2k list aren't problematic at all.

I wish they'd make their mind up on the cost of GSC Genestealers, 18, 10, 15.....

Not to go further off topic, but I'm just a little miffed because a chunk of my list no longer counts as being on the board for the purposes of tabling, when those units were not part of the issue that this FAQ fix is intended to resolve.

A better solution, in my opinion, would have been to nerf the stormraven, increase their cost, improve anti-air options, or limit how many could appear in an army.

C'est la vie.

 Flood wrote:
Not to go further off topic, but I'm just a little miffed because a chunk of my list no longer counts as being on the board for the purposes of tabling, when those units were not part of the issue that this FAQ fix is intended to resolve.

A better solution, in my opinion, would have been to nerf the stormraven, increase their cost, improve anti-air options, or limit how many could appear in an army.

C'est la vie.

Honestly, I believe it's a good solution. The only units that have the Flyer Battlefield role will be affected by it. And that's only if the rest of the ground forces get wiped out.

Nerfing the Stormraven wouldn't solve the issue, as it would see a rise in other Flyer spam in it's place. Improving Anti-air options might create the weird situation that those who don't have air units counter air with too much anti-air, and thus are left lacking in ground-based engagement.

Limiting how many appear? That's what this does, essentially, without actually putting a 0-1 limit on it. It puts a tactical 0-1 out there, but doesn't prevent you from taking as many as you want. It just means you have to worry more about being tabled, so to speak.

SilverAlien wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Most importantly, brimstones are still the same cost? Hmm

Yeah, these still appear to be "typos we just now noticed" over actual balance changes. Even the razorwing flock presumably. Otherwise they don't really make much sense.

Has anyone pointed out necrons who take morale losses can no longer reanimate? Looks like larger squads aren't even a good choice for them. Does it seem like the game designers really like MSU to anyone else?

Most people were already playing it like that and necrons are still ld10.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Flood wrote:
Well I'm glad I get screwed over for taking non-stormraven flyers because stormravens are spammed by WAAC players. [/s]

Only if you're taking like 8, at which point you're WAAC whether you wanted to be or not.

Small, but important change for me. Solitaires getting <MASQUE>. In your face, Brent.

 Flood wrote:
Not to go further off topic, but I'm just a little miffed because a chunk of my list no longer counts as being on the board for the purposes of tabling, when those units were not part of the issue that this FAQ fix is intended to resolve.

A better solution, in my opinion, would have been to nerf the stormraven, increase their cost, improve anti-air options, or limit how many could appear in an army.

C'est la vie.

Your statement goes against your previous one saying that stormtalons are not that hard to kill. To me it sounds like either your game experience has lead you to rely on stormtalons to still be there at the end of the game taking objectives or harrassing the opponent. Or you are annoyed that you will lose when they inevitably are the only units still on the table by the last turn.

It only makes sense that you see them as being pretty tough and hard to kill and you now have to keep other elements of your list to be alive to the end of the game to win.

Maybe you don't mean it that way but that is how it reads to me.

Fliers not being able to hold objectives alone is an ace adjustment. Whether intended to fix Those Lists or not, it makes total sense and encourages combined forces.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Fliers not being able to hold objectives alone is an ace adjustment. Whether intended to fix Those Lists or not, it makes total sense and encourages combined forces.

The FAQ didn't say that... it said flyers alone can't keep you running.
A flyer that ends its movement within 3" of an objective will capture it

 BrotherGecko wrote:
...

Don't rely on them, but suddenly 390-585pts of my list does not matter as far as being wiped out is concerned. That's a serious disadvantage. It's not always going to be the difference between winning or losing,but in the cases where it does matter, it feels cheap. If everyone could ignore a quarter of your list for winning by tabling, you'd feel a little down about it.
Perhaps not letting Flyers score objectives would have been a 'softer' solution.

 Flood wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
...

Don't rely on them, but suddenly 390-585pts of my list does not matter as far as being wiped out is concerned. That's a serious disadvantage. It's not always going to be the difference between winning or losing,but in the cases where it does matter, it feels cheap. If everyone could ignore a quarter of your list for winning by tabling, you'd feel a little down about it.
Perhaps not letting Flyers score objectives would have been a 'softer' solution.

They could have instead pushed the points up for those flyers and made them inefficient for the cost. Not scoring is easily remedied by keeping a cheap unit in reserve until after the flyers wipe the table. It's pretty unlikely for you to get table and if your fliers are getting around damage free then they're that much more effective.

 Flood wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
...

Don't rely on them, but suddenly 390-585pts of my list does not matter as far as being wiped out is concerned. That's a serious disadvantage. It's not always going to be the difference between winning or losing,but in the cases where it does matter, it feels cheap. If everyone could ignore a quarter of your list for winning by tabling, you'd feel a little down about it.
Perhaps not letting Flyers score objectives would have been a 'softer' solution.

It's really not a significant disadvantage. If the opponent manages to kill everything but your fliers--while they continue to shoot and harass him no less, then you were seriously outplayed and the opponent earned the win. And I imagine opponents feel a little down that their melee units have no ability to kill your fliers, so it's a better balance now.

 Rolsheen wrote:
I wish they'd make their mind up on the cost of GSC Genestealers, 18, 10, 15.....

I do too. Not because both of the first two costs were obviously wrong at a glance (though they were), but because it speaks volumes about their approach. Its lol!random changes to 'fix' things.

If they made a case for why ambush and transport use was worth 6, -2 or 3 points per model, it would be a lot more convincing. The final result is probably pretty close to right, but it feels like they just settled on 15 because it's half the difference between the original cost and the tyranid version.

Voss wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
I wish they'd make their mind up on the cost of GSC Genestealers, 18, 10, 15.....

I do too. Not because both of the first two costs were obviously wrong at a glance, but because it speaks volumes about their approach. Its lol!random changes to 'fix' things.

If they made a case for why [i]ambush and transport use was worth 6, -2 or 3 points per model, it would be a lot more convincing.

Random? No. Poorly controlled / reviewed? Yes.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
I wish they'd make their mind up on the cost of GSC Genestealers, 18, 10, 15.....

I do too. Not because both of the first two costs were obviously wrong at a glance, but because it speaks volumes about their approach. Its lol!random changes to 'fix' things.

If they made a case for why [i]ambush and transport use was worth 6, -2 or 3 points per model, it would be a lot more convincing.

Random? No. Poorly controlled / reviewed? Yes.

I'd love to see whatever concrete case you're making for that distinction, but, really. the fact that they actually went with 2 points less for a model with bonus rules on top lends itself more to random than just 'poor review.'

Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
I wish they'd make their mind up on the cost of GSC Genestealers, 18, 10, 15.....

I do too. Not because both of the first two costs were obviously wrong at a glance, but because it speaks volumes about their approach. Its lol!random changes to 'fix' things.

If they made a case for why [i]ambush and transport use was worth 6, -2 or 3 points per model, it would be a lot more convincing.

Random? No. Poorly controlled / reviewed? Yes.

Compared to what? Balancing this many armies, many with quite a few unit selections, is always going to be a dynamic process. Literally impossible to get it perfectly right pre-release.

It's not like 'we', the players, or 'we', this small section of the interwebs get things right or even find agreement all that often, either. We've burned how many electrons discussing Conscripts and how close are 'we' to a consensus there?

I find the 'fact of' the GSC points changes to be a positive - GW is willing to go back on their own ruling. Old GW would've made you wait for the next time their years-long Codex development cycle revisited the problem Codex.

I just had a look and they haven't clarified how many points the blue horror crew wargear upgrade for the Burning Chariots cost. It's so annoying that they have missed this again.

JakeSiren wrote:
I just had a look and they haven't clarified how many points the blue horror crew wargear upgrade for the Burning Chariots cost. It's so annoying that they have missed this again.

Ya it's more confusing now for blue horrors on cost thou for what they do I don't see a reason to get them over more horrors in units
I am more shocked that we don't have a FAQ on the changeling and Magnus ask see that asked all the time

JakeSiren wrote:
I just had a look and they haven't clarified how many points the blue horror crew wargear upgrade for the Burning Chariots cost. It's so annoying that they have missed this again.

Q: If a Burning Chariot takes its option to be accompanied
by three Blue Horrors, does this mean I add three Blue Horror
models from the Horrors datasheet and form a mixed unit?
A: No. This option is referring to the optional Blue
Horror crew that come with the Burning Chariot kit and
are placed on top of the chariot alongside the Exalted
Flamer. If you have them, you simply get the benefits
listed in the Burning Chariot’s Irritating Chant ability