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Bremon wrote:
@Saythings thanks!

@desubot lol! I’ve used the apothecary to reasonable success in a handful of games but have yet to use the ancient. Now the wheels are turning. Does the “victim” make a single shot, or shoot as normal with a single weapon? Can a Hellblaster rapid fire? Can an aggressor shoot 6 shots (each glove is technically a separate weapon, no?).

Shoots as normal, unless in CC

so you overcharge every time.

Hmm. Very cool. Well, I think my Ancient moved up a slot on my project table!

Man, GW had a pretty good strategy if their plan was to subplant the regular Marines with Primaris Marines. I find my lists are becoming more and more composed of Primaris units. It will never be 100% as long as Pedro exists, and it'll be a cold day in hell before my Lascannon Devastators go anywhere either. However, I removed the Scouts that have been the cornerstone of my army going back to when I first started playing. If Primaris could ride in regular transports, I think I would be replacing my two Combi-Weapon Sternguard Squads with Hellblasters (basically would be performing the same job for the same amount of points and have twice the wounds). Honestly, I might end up doing that anyway (though it would increase my drops since the Sternguard start in Razorbacks and the Razorbacks would still be in the list), which is kind of a shame.

Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

Agreed. I am not looking for a gunboat when it comes to SM transports. I would have liked a Repulsor with no turret and just the heavy Bolters on the front.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

Agreed. I am not looking for a gunboat when it comes to SM transports. I would have liked a Repulsor with no turret and just the heavy Bolters on the front.

REALLLLLYL wished the repulsor was a duel kit with an alterntive no top hatch. make it cheaper for the reduction in guns.

on a side note i REALLY hate using the repulsor. not because its bad but because it takes a good 5 minutes alone just trying to get through all the guns it has.

 Desubot wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

Agreed. I am not looking for a gunboat when it comes to SM transports. I would have liked a Repulsor with no turret and just the heavy Bolters on the front.

REALLLLLYL wished the repulsor was a duel kit with an alterntive no top hatch. make it cheaper for the reduction in guns.

on a side note i REALLY hate using the repulsor. not because its bad but because it takes a good 5 minutes alone just trying to get through all the guns it has.

I like the general appearance (I HATE the asymmetry though). I agree on the gun count. And if it let a frickin' CHAPTER MASTER have the keys to it, I would be happy. Honestly, I would be running three of them if they allowed regular Marines to ride inside. Instead, I have zero purchased and it is staying that way.

In other news, I decided to go with the two Hellblaster Squads instead of the Combi-Weapon Sternguard. Much more versatile and much easier to paint (one of the major hangups for getting my army table-ready is how much of a pain in the ass Sternguard are to paint). That brings me to greater than half my army being Primaris Marines. I suppose it is fitting for the Crimson Fists.

Personally I feel the opposite way about the repulsor, in fluff terms at least. I've always felt that rhinos were a ridiculously awful vehicle for marines to travel around in.

The idea of having humanity's ultimate special forces carted around in a box on tracks with barely any armour or armament is absurd. Even the guard have always had a far superior vehicle in the chimera. Better armour, far more armament, and it's even amphibious. This is a culture that sticks a twin autocannon on a civilian truck - and sometimes a heavy stubber as well.

Land raiders, storm ravens, repulsors and land speeder storms for stealth approaches are appropriate transports for marines. A rhino does absolutely nothing that those others don't.

Anyway rant over. I definitely agree that actually firing the damn thing in a game is a pain. I've taken the approach of trying to lump together guns where I can - say for instance the onslaught gatling cannon and the ironhail stubber(s) if firing at MEQs, as they need the same rolls to hit and wound. Same with fragstorms and storm bolters. I actually came close to putting fragstorms on instead of storm bolters, so I could do all 5 of the things together, but ultimately I thought it was a waste of points. I wouldn't dream of giving it an icarus missile pod or ironhail on the back, forcing myself to find a flyer to fire at to no noticeable effect.

Agreed with you guys. The fact you need a cheat sheet for its damn weapons loadout is a joke. And it’s got so many guns you’ll inevitably forget to shoot some anyway lol. It just looks far too busy for my tastes. If it looked like a hybrid between a razorback and a land raider I’d be happy as a big in you-know-what. Instead I have a lot of infantry with some weapons platforms that look a touch small with Intercessors and Hellblasters standing near them lol.

Honestly, I've gotten used to firing the weapons on the repulsor now. I really like it, it just feels like what an elite unit's transport should be.

Anyway, what I really chuckle about is how many dice I roll when the aggressors double tap.

I just have the fewer type of guns on Repulsor as possible, so for my tank I remember it this way: 24 S5 AP-1 shots, 6 or 12 plus 2D6 bolter shots, 3 bolt rifle shots, and 2 Krak Grenade shots. 4 types of weapons.

Actually I find it better than a LRC for almost the same points. With Guiliman buffing it nearby this dakka skimmer tank can easily one shot a Non-Nurgle Daemon Prince if positioned right.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
I just have the fewer type of guns on Repulsor as possible, so for my tank I remember it this way: 24 S5 AP-1 shots, 6 or 12 plus 2D6 bolter shots, 3 bolt rifle shots, and 2 Krak Grenade shots. 4 types of weapons.

I think it’s possible to get it down to 3 different types of weapons (but I wouldn’t)

The HB/gatlings S5 AP-1 guns
The SB/fragstorm S4 ap - guns
The Krackstoms (that you can’t do anything about.)

Then it’s just about checking for range to see how many shots you get.

I do think it’s worth keeping the AA launcher, as there is probably something that flies in range that could use it. But as I’m in the process of building mine right now I decided against the co-ax stubber. Sure, it’s more firepower and doesn’t take a slot. But from a speed of play POV didn’t seem worth including. (Helped by the fact that IMHO marines should not be using stubbers, even fancy ones)

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.

I've read the thread and I've seen pros and cons of the individual units.
I plan to build up a Primaris army.
But how about tactics? How do you play this army? Foot slogging a slow way to die.

 argonak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.

The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 argonak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.

The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.

While this is true, Stormravens can carry Centurions and Terminators, both of which are at least as bulky as Primaris, if not moreso.

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 argonak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.

The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.

While this is true, Stormravens can carry Centurions and Terminators, both of which are at least as bulky as Primaris, if not moreso.

Hey, you guys wanted your fears quelled about Primaris replacing regular Marines. You get what you want, and then they'd be slowly replaced.

They just need a cheaper option for transport is all.

Also a scout equivalent. Need some smaller cheaper units to plug some deep strike bubble holes.

The vehicle design rules may help with that though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 argonak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.

The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.

While this is true, Stormravens can carry Centurions and Terminators, both of which are at least as bulky as Primaris, if not moreso.

Hey, you guys wanted your fears quelled about Primaris replacing regular Marines. You get what you want, and then they'd be slowly replaced.

They just need a cheaper option for transport is all.

I didn't get what I wanted, nor was I ever fearful of Primaris replacing regular Marines. That's actually what I wanted, personally. But I can see what you mean to say, even if the generalization missed the mark by a mile.

They do need a cheaper transport option, but in lieu of that, and without having to include a brand new model kit, wouldn't adding them to LR and Stormravens suffice, with whatever Primaris tax ends up being balanced?

But for now, RG stratagem is my transport lol

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 argonak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.

The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.

And yet, for reasons unknown, those magna grapnels on the back of the Stormraven BB can't stick to a Redemptor. Keep in mind, a Furioso with magna grapnels still gets a charge bonus against a Redemptor.

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

Well, I wouldn't call it a flaw. The 40k universe is as it is. We have to live with it.

I'd like to get around this ''flaw'' and try to build a competitive army with Primaris Marines as part of my BA.
Any tips and hints there?

 wuestenfux wrote:


I'd like to get around this ''flaw'' and try to build a competitive army with Primaris Marines as part of my BA.
Any tips and hints there?

It seems to be that the best way to use Primaris is as to supplement your current army. Take their "stronger" units and add them as you see fit for your army. I am still playing at 1k and under, so my entire army is Primaris and has been doing pretty well for me. I rely heavily on hellblasters and intercessors along with the lts and captain to buff them. It becomes more of a foot-slog shooting army, but has done well, especially on 4x4 tables. Eventually plan on adding Guilliman (going to do a Sanguinius conversion though) to see how he fleshes out. I will also probably supplement the army with either Storm Ravens, terminators, and/or predators when I move to 1500 points.

Would love for the BA to get a buff when it comes to assault though so I could have a good CC unit to balance out the shooting, but I will have to wait until the codex drops for that.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 argonak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.

The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.

And yet, for reasons unknown, those magna grapnels on the back of the Stormraven BB can't stick to a Redemptor. Keep in mind, a Furioso with magna grapnels still gets a charge bonus against a Redemptor.

Well to be fair, a redemptor is massive compared to other dreads. It's not that it isn't magnetic - just that it's too heavy.

That said, I definitely agree that primaris should be allowed in storm ravens and land raiders. Or else give them a new flying transport like the storm raven. Maybe even go nuts and make a lord of war flyer 1.5 or 2x a storm raven's size.

Mandragola wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 argonak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

At the very least Primaris should be able to ride in the stormraven. The damn thing can carry dreadnoughts.

The Dreadnought is being hooked on the back. It isn't like it's in the cargo hold or anything.

And yet, for reasons unknown, those magna grapnels on the back of the Stormraven BB can't stick to a Redemptor. Keep in mind, a Furioso with magna grapnels still gets a charge bonus against a Redemptor.

Well to be fair, a redemptor is massive compared to other dreads. It's not that it isn't magnetic - just that it's too heavy.

That said, I definitely agree that primaris should be allowed in storm ravens and land raiders. Or else give them a new flying transport like the storm raven. Maybe even go nuts and make a lord of war flyer 1.5 or 2x a storm raven's size.

They work just fine on the Leviathan...

 wuestenfux wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Lack of transports is the fundamental flaw with Primaris in my eyes. I was pretty upset by that initially, if a Cawl Rhino came out I’d be ok with it but having the Land Floater as the only option is brutal.

Well, I wouldn't call it a flaw. The 40k universe is as it is. We have to live with it.

I'd like to get around this ''flaw'' and try to build a competitive army with Primaris Marines as part of my BA.
Any tips and hints there?

I’m currently playing 750-1k games and the DI box forms the basis of my army. Using cover, Capt. and Lt. re-rolls has been key for me. 4x4 table means you can usually get 2 objectives, potentially three by games end and have a bonus point or two such as Firsr Blood. Intercessors have been very durable for me, Hellblasters consistently put in work meaning they are a high priority target for my enemies. Inceptors have been underwhelming, so I leave them out most of the time. They are good for late game objective grabbing if you’ve sat on them for a bit, but leaving 180 points out of my army for 2 turns has been difficult. Once they land 10” move with jet packs isn’t as great as it could be. Aggressors I’m keen on currently, I’ve only used them once but seem like they have real potential. I have no interest in Reivers due to their models. A predator and dreadnoughts mean I haven’t stuck solely to Primaris, and I also have a Librarian I haven’t used yet.

Bremon wrote:
Agreed with you guys. The fact you need a cheat sheet for its damn weapons loadout is a joke. And it’s got so many guns you’ll inevitably forget to shoot some anyway lol. It just looks far too busy for my tastes. If it looked like a hybrid between a razorback and a land raider I’d be happy as a big in you-know-what. Instead I have a lot of infantry with some weapons platforms that look a touch small with Intercessors and Hellblasters standing near them lol.

I forget to shoot the iron hail in roughly 2/3 of the games I've used it in

Well, I think that Primaris Marines are good close quarter fighters. They can excel especially at 4x4 tables.

I plan an add-on detachment to my BA army. Frankly, I dislike the Tactical Marines. BA Tacticals have access to the heavy flamer which is not something to overlook. But Intersessors have better guns and are more durable. One could use them to hold a flank or even the centre.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think that Primaris Marines are good close quarter fighters. They can excel especially at 4x4 tables.

I plan an add-on detachment to my BA army. Frankly, I dislike the Tactical Marines. BA Tacticals have access to the heavy flamer which is not something to overlook. But Intersessors have better guns and are more durable. One could use them to hold a flank or even the centre.

Yeah cant underestimate it

a 5man can have a surprising number of bolter swings in and the power sword is nice on the sarge.

I haven't got any games with my Primaris in yet (last couple games have been with my guard, still painting the marines up anyway), but is a Librarian worth bringing?

The Space Marine spell list seems a bit. . . meh.
Veil of Time and Might of Heroes look good, but that's about it. Thoughts?

I don't have a Repulsor yet, but I was thinking a Librarian in a Repulsor with some Aggressors might make a nasty (if extremely expensive) fist to punch someone with.

 argonak wrote:
I haven't got any games with my Primaris in yet (last couple games have been with my guard, still painting the marines up anyway), but is a Librarian worth bringing?

The Space Marine spell list seems a bit. . . meh.
Veil of Time and Might of Heroes look good, but that's about it. Thoughts?

I don't have a Repulsor yet, but I was thinking a Librarian in a Repulsor with some Aggressors might make a nasty (if extremely expensive) fist to punch someone with.

Depends

If fighting things that heavily depends on invul saves its REALLY nice to have and he is not a pushover in CC with that forcesword. Took out helbrecht in a single fight as i had nullzone on.

as well its really the only way besides black Templar to deny. take a null zone if fighting invul fighty type things, take what ever new jaws is called to cheese out special weapons (IIRC), might of heros is kinda meh. veil can be clutch. otherwise there is nothing bad about smooting out a few mortal wounds.