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I’ve been trying out a gimmicky fortification list with 3 Plasma Obliterators, and it’s done alright in my last few games. Two full of neophytes, one stuffed full of Kraken genestealers, and Broodlords in 2 of them. Everything else in reserve.

With buildings able to hold objectives and use the cover save stratagem, I can safely turtle the first turn with little damage taken until everything comes in from reserves, at which point the stealers zip out with their huge threat range. I’ve been running 2 squads of abominants, shotgun neophytes, and assorted acolytes but could probably improve it a bit.

I feel like Alcolytes should be our go-to for dealing with elite troops, but I can also understand if they don't quite hold up as well as they should since even the cheapest melee option for them is still 10 points.

Actually, when the codex comes around I have to say I'd like to see more IG stuff slipped in to the FA and Heavy slots (Salamanders and Basalisks mainly) as well as more generic civilian stuff. I know there is some desire for a limo, but I'd like to see some other stuff instead to be honest. Oh, and Rockgrinders go to units of 1-3 that split up.

Red Corsair wrote:I am not sure metamorphs will ever be viable unfortunately, since they are effectively none troop acolytes and each one is forced into purchasing an upgrade I don't think they need. So use your boxes on acolytes.

I think they could be viable if they go back to their 7th edition design as low cost mass-attack specialists. In 7th a Metamorph would throw 5 attacks on the charge (3 base, +1 for multiple melee weapons, +1 for charging) for 9 points. An Acolyte in comparison would get 4 on the charge for 8 points but would generally be hitting on a 4+ while the Metamorph usually needed a 3+ (assuming talon).

Badablack wrote:I’ve been trying out a gimmicky fortification list with 3 Plasma Obliterators, and it’s done alright in my last few games. Two full of neophytes, one stuffed full of Kraken genestealers, and Broodlords in 2 of them. Everything else in reserve.

I wish they would re-release that model. Our store received a single one and it was bought by our local guard fanatic who hasn't had much time to play.

I'd be curious to hear more about how fortifications in general have been serving you. I'm wanting to add a section on fortifications to the primer in the first post but have not had much time to do proper tests as I'm currently responsible for running our shop's Kill Team campaign. I haven't been able to get many full-sized games in as a result...

the model looks super stupid to me, I'd rather just create something better out of one of the other similarly sized terrain pieces

I made all my Plasma Obliterators out of Ferratonic Furnaces with Plasma Regulators, they look better for a bunch of insurgent miners and aren’t a million bucks on eBay.

Honestly for the purpose of just staying alive, Imperial Bastions are probably better. Much lower damage output, but with 2D6 shots a Plasma Obliterator is usually doing more damage to itself than to the enemy. But they plug in a weakness in GSC lists with a 72” gun.

It really needs a points reduction though. And battallion/brigade detachments REALLY need a single fortification added, because taking any buildings really limits your ability to bring allies.

 Badablack wrote:
I made all my Plasma Obliterators out of Ferratonic Furnaces with Plasma Regulators, they look better for a bunch of insurgent miners and aren’t a million bucks on eBay.

Honestly for the purpose of just staying alive, Imperial Bastions are probably better. Much lower damage output, but with 2D6 shots a Plasma Obliterator is usually doing more damage to itself than to the enemy. But they plug in a weakness in GSC lists with a 72” gun.

It really needs a points reduction though. And battallion/brigade detachments REALLY need a single fortification added, because taking any buildings really limits your ability to bring allies.

Pics of this please

They still need to be painted beyond a basecoat, but 3 giant buildings are kind of a low priority. Magnetized in case people throw a fit at the side pipes possibly affecting ranges.

 Badablack wrote:
They still need to be painted beyond a basecoat, but 3 giant buildings are kind of a low priority. Magnetized in case people throw a fit at the side pipes possibly affecting ranges.

Spoiler:

That is very fine work!

Can you recommend any of the FW flyers for the Cult? Is there anything good besides the obvious Vulture?

 Causalis wrote:
Can you recommend any of the FW flyers for the Cult? Is there anything good besides the obvious Vulture?

It's Lord of War, but the Marauder Destroyer is worth looking into.

 Causalis wrote:
Can you recommend any of the FW flyers for the Cult? Is there anything good besides the obvious Vulture?

The Arvus Lighter is cute. Cheap flying transport that can start off table.
If it could transport GSC infantry it would be excellent.

What about the Thunderbolt or the Strike Fighter? Too expensive?

I've also just finished painting my Patriarch, but I hate the Genestealer models. Is he worth taking by himself? I mean he is so expensive...

I hate to say it but Patriarchs are a questionable take even when paired with genestealers. Without them, strategicly I'd say they are a hard pass.

If you're looking for some kind of daemon prince brute, look into tyranid allies.

He's great with a million cultists for fearless

SHUPPET wrote:He's great with a million cultists for fearless

+1 this can't be underestimated.

weaver9 wrote:I hate to say it but Patriarchs are a questionable take even when paired with genestealers. Without them, strategicly I'd say they are a hard pass.

If you're looking for some kind of daemon prince brute, look into tyranid allies.

I disagree whole heartedly. In fact I'd say he performs better when not attached to purestrains. It marries into my previous rant on purestrains being a trap. Well, beside them being a trap in large numbers, so is taking a patriarch to baby sit them. He makes that issue so much worse and will in turn under perform because he will be relegated to buffing the stealer bomb which doesn't need him really, so he will always look poor standing behind them watching. He also adds to that investment that will never payoff. He will work well threatening center field however.

I have been having a ton of success running 2-3 patriarchs. The dude is a blender but he also catches folks off guard, he's infantry so he runs through walls, but he also goes 8+d6 and charges. His psychic powers are all great, plus familiars and unquestioning loyalty make him a PITA to kill. Mine ran through an armiger at my last RTT like a wet bag. He caught me by surprise when my abomanant whiffed but the patriarch stripped all 12 wounds lol. They work well as enforcers. They anchor your lines from moral, cause de-buffs and mortal wounds and bully large table sections. He looks expensive until you realize he is a faster abomanant and a magus rolled into one guy. Those two characters cost roughly the same when added togehter. Nothing in the nid book with the excepotion of broodlords which are the same dude and old one eye do what he does. Any large monster you take from nids will get focus fired down and in fact rewards your opponents AT weapons. GSC works best when you focus on hordes of cheap bodies and hide-able characters so you punish them for taking AT weapons. He's literally a demon prince for cheaper, with better claws, the same speed, can buy ablative wounds that also make his psychic phase more potent and has an army of fearless body guards that can tank wounds for him. All he lacks is fly lol. Even then he is infantry so he gets around most of the setbacks especially now that flying models took a nerf in the charge phase. Nobody thinks demon princes are bad (you didn't say so either), in fact you see lists with 4-6 of them do quite well. It has tempted me to take 3 patriarchs and 3 brood lords actually. Would also unlock cheaper faster genestealers that have obsec and grant more CP's.

I like sticking patriarchs in fortifications then busting him out 12-17 inches. He’s got a huge threat window and gives me more stuff in reserve. The familiars are also a big boost to survivability. It’s not just extra wounds, it’s extra models that can absorb any amount of damage. If someone smacks him with a thunder hammer that’s 3 damage per each little guy.

I have been having a ton of success running 2-3 patriarchs

I'm a fluff player so I'll only ever take one.

How exactly do you play him "with a million cultists"? Do you take 20 Neophytes, stick him in the second row and just advance up the field? Or are 20 not enough? What weapons do you give your meatshields?

I have great success fielding 20 Neos in ambush w/ 2x SCs and 2x GLs. Since we know what Warlord Traits we will get I am thinking about making an Iconward the Warlord (or the Cowboy if he buffs shooting) so that he can choose #5 on the table and pop up with the Neophytes. He adds a bit survivability to them and lets them re-roll morale.

My other Neophytes are 10 dudes in a Truck with 2x GLs and 2x MLs to strip some wounds from vehicles and 10 guys with 2x GLs and a HWT with a Lascannon to sit on an objective all game.

I would at max add another 20 dudes with Shotguns, GLs and Flamers to play bodyguard for a Patriarch. Good idea? Or do I need even MORE Neos to run with him?

Well, there is plenty of fluff justification if you use that imagination! They could be Twins or triplets that share a psychic bond, sort of like being psychic Siamese twins. Or you could just treat the other two like lieutenants. Basically they are brood lords given more strength to help lead the final uprising. Or imagining your cult is extremely large, which would require more then 4 blokes to lead and administrate. Again they simply are using the data sheet, nothing is stopping you from explaining why, who or what the data sheet represents.

I have 100 painted neophytes for reference, if that helps lol. I don't always run them all but at larger scale games I'd always take 60-80 and likely all 100 at 2k. How you split them is all based on your preferred method of engagement. I like 10 man squads with grenade launchers apart from my one 20 man shotgun squad. This gets me triple battalion if I want the command points and the MSU works well for layering a screen or sacrificing a unit here and there toward a plan.

Just run the patriarch in the center of the units, not necessarily in the center of the models of a unit, do it so he spreads the fearless bubble. Think of a bicycle wheel where each spoke is a unit and he is at the center. Obviously the "wheel" doesn't need to be round or symmetrical, it's just a visual aid to give you an idea on how to reach multiple units.

As I said in the other post he is basically a faster abomanant and magus rolled into one, so you can take multiples of either of those to function in the same capacity of enforcer. If you want to stick to established fluff simply take one patriarch and magus but three abomanants. This works fine as well, he [abomanant] is less of a blender and is slower, but he is also roughly half the cost.


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 Badablack wrote:
I like sticking patriarchs in fortifications then busting him out 12-17 inches. He’s got a huge threat window and gives me more stuff in reserve. The familiars are also a big boost to survivability. It’s not just extra wounds, it’s extra models that can absorb any amount of damage. If someone smacks him with a thunder hammer that’s 3 damage per each little guy.

Yup, they [familiars] also eat oathbreaker missiles and the extra 2 attacks a piece is nothing to scoff at either. The only scenario I hate is when I take small arms fire, like say over watch wounds and I end up killing off the familiars. You need to be careful because once the patriarch eats a wound you must allocate all further wounds to him. That's a minor issue though since they are still doing their job, I just prefer soaking big hits with them, I guess I am greedy that way lol.

Red Corsar you can still use the bodyguard rules to pass off a wound to a familiar after you start taking wounds on your patriarch if needed (it's only on a 4+ but beggars can't be choosers :-) ).

The Familiar is part of the Patriarch (or Magus) unit so you don't have to pass a test in order to allocate a wound on him.

I've got a question regarding this little fellow, though: Isn't he a little bit annoying to use alongside the Patriarch, since he have less movement than him but must stay in unit coherency? I've never used it that way for this exact reason, i will have the feeling to sacrifice one of the Patriarch main strength to gain some optional survivability (since the big guy is still a character with less than ten wounds). So if i run him with fast unit, it slows him down, and if in the middle of a bazillion cultists, it's seems a little bit redundant for his point cost: for two of these little guys, I've got nearly five more neophytes.

 Red Corsair wrote:
It marries into my previous rant on purestrains being a trap. Well, beside them being a trap in large numbers...

You had spoken before about taking a Tyranid Battalion with small squads of 'Stealers. I think this is a really interesting idea and intend to try it next time I get a chance. Can you tell us more about it? Do you take two Neurothropes then as the Battalion tax? What do you use them for? Do you find yourself using many/any Tyranid stratagems?

I can imagine deploying them (the 'Stealers) in a spread out fashion all over the board and because of their movement they can bunch up and really push against a tough cluster of units or remain spread out as need be. Fast, threatening and at super discount point price. Do you find 5 is the right number or do you field them in slightly larger counts? I can imagine they are good back-line enforcers to discourage deep-strike shenanigans too.

Lately I have been taking a pair of broodlords and 3 small 5 man stealer units from kraken. It gets me obsec fast stealers at a discount and you can use them for exactly the type of goals you listed. They have a huge threat range as well. With neurothropes it is much cheaper and you get more reliable powers which is also nice. For stratagems you can always move that small stealer unit twice to get into their backfield turn 1 and score a point depending on format etc, or use overkill after mopping up a small camping squad to get beck into a concealed position. If they assassinate a weaker buff character you can use feeder tendrils and gain CP.

Just keep in mind, we are in a weakened state on a competitive level. Without any real way to remove cheap screens and lower quality shooting it will be frustrating against some of the current top armies. But this gives a good opportunity to learn how the army functions and test some neat strategies that will still apply whenever we finally get a book.

Hope this helps.

That is helpful thank-you. I appreciate your contribution to the hive mind.

Where are the fortifications rules this edition. Index Imperial 2?

Yeah all the generic fortifications are in there. Bastion, Plasma Obliterator, Skyshield, Void Shield, Aquila Cannon, all that stuff.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Lately I have been taking a pair of broodlords and 3 small 5 man stealer units from kraken. It gets me obsec fast stealers at a discount and you can use them for exactly the type of goals you listed. They have a huge threat range as well. With neurothropes it is much cheaper and you get more reliable powers which is also nice. For stratagems you can always move that small stealer unit twice to get into their backfield turn 1 and score a point depending on format etc, or use overkill after mopping up a small camping squad to get beck into a concealed position. If they assassinate a weaker buff character you can use feeder tendrils and gain CP.

Just keep in mind, we are in a weakened state on a competitive level. Without any real way to remove cheap screens and lower quality shooting it will be frustrating against some of the current top armies. But this gives a good opportunity to learn how the army functions and test some neat strategies that will still apply whenever we finally get a book.

Hope this helps.

That's awesome. I'm still not sure why the community has written off Broodlords/Patriachs. They are barely more expensive than a Thunder Captain and damn are they jolly.

Has someone converted Chaos Cultists into Neophytes and would share some pictures?

Also, does anyone know some alternative models for the FW Thunderbolt or Lighting Strike Fighter? The models themselves are nice but I don't want to throw down that kind of cash. Maybe some converted Ork flyer or something?

 Causalis wrote:
Has someone converted Chaos Cultists into Neophytes and would share some pictures?

Also, does anyone know some alternative models for the FW Thunderbolt or Lighting Strike Fighter? The models themselves are nice but I don't want to throw down that kind of cash. Maybe some converted Ork flyer or something?

I have used necromunda gangers for cultists they look great.

 SHUPPET wrote:

That's awesome. I'm still not sure why the community has written off Broodlords/Patriachs. They are barely more expensive than a Thunder Captain and damn are they jolly.

5+ invuln. They can dish a fair hit but can’t take one. They also can’t rely on a good armor save in case they come across a high volume of attacks.

 Causalis wrote:
Has someone converted Chaos Cultists into Neophytes and would share some pictures?

I'll put some up later today hopefully when I can take the photos. Might take till tomorrow. I haven't finished painting a squad but I do like how the ones so far turned out.