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At this point, I want a book... It is really sad to look at the Vigilius book look at all these artifacts and go ... wow I can only have one of these, wait maybe if I spend CP to buy another reli... oh wait...

Wait. Did the tyranid broodlord get cheaper, but the GSC did not get cheaper?

Correct. No GSC Changes because the book is coming.

Geoff Robinson on the Chapter Tactics podcast also indicated today that you will have a "hard time" fitting AM/Nids AND GSC all in one list post codex.

I can't imagine wanting to give up the new Emperors Wrath Artillery formation, but hey, we'll see where things go.

 Niiai wrote:
Wait. Did the tyranid broodlord get cheaper, but the GSC did not get cheaper?

Yeah. The patriarch is still 150p. We didn't get any points reductions for sentinels or chimeras either, despite AM getting them.

Still waiting for the codex...

So is this basically Nick Rose's list?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-top-list-of-the-week-december-19th-the-gsc-rises.html

I can't seem to wrap my mind around it to be honest. I understand what the theme of the army is, but I don't see how he's dealing with the "meta" picks (Knights).

Can anyone break this list down for a newbie?

Well he has 3 Thropes for smites, his Abbs put out an Average of 12 Wounds per attack cycle to the Knights BEFORE taking exploding 6s into account with Abominants.

Pick and Claw Abbs shred things now that every pick attack nets an extra claw attack, and Abominants turn them into blenders.

Genestealers tear apart infantry, etc

I aint no Nick Rose, dude is a GSC Wizard, but he has a great mix of models that fill roles he needs filled.

He can kill a Gallant with nothing but two Abominants and a single unit of Aberrants, and that's just on average.

 Niiai wrote:
Wait. Did the tyranid broodlord get cheaper, but the GSC did not get cheaper?

Correct, though I anticipate that will adjust with the codex as well. Most of the chapter approved adjustments were a mirror of changes to the IG (though Heavy Stubbers indirectly drop the cost of our Goliaths a fair amount).

I suppose also to play devils advocate, the Tyranid army list only has 1 HQ at 80 points or less (formerly the Neurothrope, now the Tyranid Prime) while the GSC army list has 4 (Iconward, Primus, Magus, Abominant).

 ajax_xaja wrote:
So is this basically Nick Rose's list?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-top-list-of-the-week-december-19th-the-gsc-rises.html

I can't seem to wrap my mind around it to be honest. I understand what the theme of the army is, but I don't see how he's dealing with the "meta" picks (Knights).

Can anyone break this list down for a newbie?

I think they are relying on psychic shenanigans coupled with good armor cracking melee for anti-Knight work. Neurothropes can cast two powers a turn, so they should be laying down a lot of Smites followed by Psychic Scream (similar to Smite but with a bonus against psykers), Paroxysm (target has to swing last - no interrupts), and The Horror (-1 to hit, stacks with Mass Hypnosis for a -2 and smoke launchers for -3 if applicable). All of the Broodmind powers are good against Knights in their own way, though I imagine he is mainly using Mass Hypnosis and Might from Beyond. Mind Control is also great against Knights, but it can be hard to get off if the opponent knows what it will do if they allow the Magi to get close enough.

The list is basically designed to get the Aberrants to the foe and buff them to the stratosphere, with 'stealers providing back-up. Meanwhile, the Rippers and Neophytes basically go for objectives while the enemy is occupied with the melee threats blending through their lines.

I should add, a lot of the "meta" builds are relying on a relatively small handful of units to provide firepower (Knights, Loota Bomb, etc.) which is exactly the sort of opponent GSC wants to fight. The more concentrated the opponent's damage output, the easier it is for us to eliminate it.

What is he putting in the chimeras ?

taetrius67 wrote:
What is he putting in the chimeras ?

I'm guessing the Aberrants + support characters (6-strong unit with Primus, Abominant, Iconward, and Magus, 7-strong unit with Primus, Abominant, and Magus), but it would depend heavily on the match-up, mission, and whether they have first turn or not. If conditions are favorable for ambushing the Neophytes presumably ride inside instead and the Aberrants + Primus ambush into position. Chimeras with the new cover for the second player stratagem are surprisingly hard to kill first turn at long range, and can pop smoke for a -1 to hit after advancing on the first turn prior to delivering their cargo.

If the Aberrants are Ambushing I assume the Chimeras are also acting as screen clearing alongside the 'stealers. I vaguely remember someone mentioning they were being employed as a mobile wall to shield the Kraken stealers on their way up the table as well (makes sense, both are very fast and Chimeras are fairly long models).

In depth interview with James who rocked GSC in a tournament. Really interesting to listen to, I learned a lot.

Listen to 40k // The Tom Leighton Interviews EP 2 - James Mackenzie by The Honest Wargamer #np on #SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/the-honest-wargamer/40k-the-top-leighton-interviews-ep2-james-mackenzie

 Strat_N8 wrote:

taetrius67 wrote:
What is he putting in the chimeras ?

I'm guessing the Aberrants + support characters (6-strong unit with Primus, Abominant, Iconward, and Magus, 7-strong unit with Primus, Abominant, and Magus), but it would depend heavily on the match-up, mission, and whether they have first turn or not. If conditions are favorable for ambushing the Neophytes presumably ride inside instead and the Aberrants + Primus ambush into position. Chimeras with the new cover for the second player stratagem are surprisingly hard to kill first turn at long range, and can pop smoke for a -1 to hit after advancing on the first turn prior to delivering their cargo.

If the Aberrants are Ambushing I assume the Chimeras are also acting as screen clearing alongside the 'stealers. I vaguely remember someone mentioning they were being employed as a mobile wall to shield the Kraken stealers on their way up the table as well (makes sense, both are very fast and Chimeras are fairly long models).

Yeah I don’t think he ever put the aberrants into a chimera. They were just used as a wall to block LOS to the Kraken stealers (think Rhino scoping but in reverse). He also went second a lot. It’s an interesting list in that it’s reserve heavy but also a list that wants second turn. Most lists are the opposite if they’re reserve heavy - wanting first turn to mitigate damage done prior to reserves coming in. Looks like I may need some chimerae, especially if they come down in price in the codex like they should to mirror the IG chimera. Also I love that the abominant is every bit the monster that we thought he was.

Can second the plug on the podcast though. It’s a good listen, and I’ve played a ton of tyranids and a decent amount of GSC, though not much GSC post 8th

290 pts of empty transports to block line of sight to 190 pts of Stealers is an interesting decision. Surely there's more to it than that, he must be putting something in them?

 SHUPPET wrote:
290 pts of empty transports to block line of sight to 190 pts of Stealers is an interesting decision. Surely there's more to it than that, he must be putting something in them?

There are lots of details about how the "Nick Rose army" plays in the podcast I linked a few posts up.

As I understood it, the chimeras are usually loaded with neophytes, maguses and abomnants. Since he starts with putting a lot of things into reserve, he will know where the enemy has their firebase when it's finally time to deploy the chimeras and genestealers. So he can do a minimum deployment of chimeras, neurothropes and genestealers in a position where they are fairly well protected. So the chimeras are a way to reduce drops, reduce tabletop footprint, to bunker up the squishies and to protect the genestealer unit that is key to this entire playstyle. Aberrants and purestrains where usually ambushed.

I don’t think he has ever started the aberrants on the table. Maybe with the ability to disembark and charge it could be a thing but that only applies to rockgrinders and just generally it’s bad if your opponent can kill a single chimera and then shoot at the important stuff inside

I know it probably wouldn't be competitive, but for a fun match how do you think an elite only army would do on the table Something like

Supreme command detachment
Abomination
Abomination
Patriarch
Primus

Vanguard Detachment
Abomination
Abberants x10 with picks and improvised weapon
Abberants x10 with picks and improvised weapon
Abberants x10 with picks and improvised weapon
Genestealer x10
Genestealer x10
4x chimera with Heavy Flamers

mightymconeshot wrote:I know it probably wouldn't be competitive, but for a fun match how do you think an elite only army would do on the table Something like

I'm a bit concerned about the body count truthfully. GSC already struggles with attrition and only having 55 infantry models just feels way too few to be safe. I think the list could do well if you are able to table your opponent, but you are going to struggle with objectives and against anyone who can take the initial blow and counter-punch. You might want to run 6 units of 5 Aberrants instead of 3 units of 10, since it gives you a bit more control over where you want to direct your killing power (having a big blob of 10 means they will just carve through whatever they are against and then promptly get shot - 5 might leave some survivors that you can surround and lock in until next turn).

I don't think the Patriarch is really doing much for this list. He is a great blender but in a composition consisting almost entirely of blenders you might be better off with a pair of magi to provide more psychic coverage (You are really going to need Mass Hypnosis to mitigate your low body count and lack of chaff for overwatch soaking, Might From Beyond is good too for both 'stealers and Aberrants).


Also on a non-gameplay related note, that list would be horrendously expensive to build. The Aberrant kit only has enough parts to build 3 Power Pick-equipped models, so you're going to need 9 boxes worth to get enough for that list without conversion work...

I'm on the camp of 5 boxes of Abbs, and would have needed a 6th to have enough for 2x10 w/ 2 Hypers and 8 picks each.

Did wonky conversion to make it work. Honestly, itsnt too hard on Abbs since they're mostly all muscle and chitin anyway, but you do still need an extra pick and claw somehow. Luckily, had a buddy.

It's .. the rest of GSC that's making me have some restraint until the book drops, even basic neophytes I barely want to build because it's possible all shotguns becomes the best loadout in the future, lol.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

It's .. the rest of GSC that's making me have some restraint until the book drops, even basic neophytes I barely want to build because it's possible all shotguns becomes the best loadout in the future, lol.

Eh, I have a heap of autogun neophytes from Deathwatch Overkill and Goliath kits, so every time I pick up a box the new recruits are given shotguns. I actually rather like shotguns for cheap cannon fodder squads, as they don't need any further upgrades to do what they need to do but can hit fairly hard for their price point when at 6''. Being able to run-and-gun is also rather nice for objective grabbing while still getting to throw some dice.

The main thing I'm curious to see for Neophytes is what they are going to do with the Webber. The old version was really nice and unique while the current version just doesn't do anything useful to justify it vs a grenade launcher or flamer.

Hell, even Hybrids may actually somehow prove worth it.

It's an exciting time.

I run 2 minimum size squads and one of 8 with aberrants personally (2 tooth/claw boxes and 2 overkill). It gets me more hypermorphs, who seem to do all the heavy lifting anyway.

They’ve been working great for me, usually with the big squad in reserve with a Primus and the other 2 in chimeras with Abominants. I do think aberrants and Abominants will get a ‘counts as 2 models in transports rule’ in the codex though. Most other multiwound models get that one. Which should still let let them ride in chimeras fine, just without other characters tagging along.

I ran and tested my 2x10 Aberrants w/ 2 Hypermorphs and 8 picks with an Abominant and a Primus last night.

Did some surprising work and the exploding hits were just as impressive as I'd assumed.

Really, really loving that change.

Has anyone considered the possibility of a non-Guard GSC Lord of War? What would it be lol?

You mean a lord of war that has not been loted? Or that is not Imperial Guard? Perhaps something like a giant modules (burrowing armored personel carriee) or the technodrome from TMNT.

Peehaps some psyonic amplifyer with a magus on topp. Think the sonic tanks from Atradies in Dune 2 or Dune 2000.

Gianth flesh crafted things are more of a tyranid thing.

I can’t see GSC getting big superweapons that they didn’t just steal from someone else. That would be like ISIS rolling up on America with an aircraft carrier, it’s outside their level of logistics or manufacturing.

Their fluff could change drastically in their codex and the Vigilus supplements though, so who knows.

Yeah a GSC Gargant might just be a pipe dream. And any technology they get is obviously just jacked from Guard.


rules for Infected Knights would be an awesome addition though!

Maybe a mining rig platform, like those monstrosities that are used for fracking. Or huge powerloaders to lift and transport stuff.

Mellon wrote:
Maybe a mining rig platform, like those monstrosities that are used for fracking. Or huge powerloaders to lift and transport stuff.

oh that's a great idea


I actually saw a great conversion of something like that


the guy just ran it with Baneblade rules, which is cool

Yah I've seen this before and would love to see an actual kit/official rules for this.

Is that a doctor who screwdriver on top?

Put that image in a spoiler tag please. Its messing up the page formatting.