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Cephalobeard wrote:With Chapter Approved, Acolytes with Rocksaws are pretty Decent, imo.
I'd like to combine this idea w/ either IG or Tyranids for Stratagem combinations, especially the Nid fight-twice stratagem. Any opinions here, folks? Currently this is a pet idea i'm having fun playing with, and may pick up a few boxes of things just to expand on after/during the Holidays.

Adrenal Surge is probably overkill for a 20-strong unit unless fighting something like a titan, but I like the overall idea (especially as an add-on for 'nids - a dedicated armor cracker is something they usually lack in pure swarm lists since most of their anti-tank is tied to monstrous creatures). If the rumored stratagems turn out to be correct they should make ambushing larger units more viable. Might want to mix some Cutters or Drills into the unit in low numbers, if only to reduce the number of Acolyte boxes that will be needed if not buying bitz separately (16 saws = 16 boxes...).

Also might be worth trying a 20-strong unit with Demolition Charges. You need about 18 to 1-shot Mortarion (probably the toughest model one will see in regular play) with average rolls and the 20-strong unit has almost half of the amount needed if maxed out.

C4790M wrote:I was crunching the numbers and Aberrants can hit CRAZY hard. Like, kill multiple knights per turn under optimal conditions crazy.

8 Aberrants buffed by Might from Beyond and a Primus using the Adrenaline Surge stratagem deals a whopping 54 wounds on T8/3+ on average. Of course that relies on both a psyker power going off, making the charge, not dying to overwatch and the enemy not smacking the aberrants before they get to attack again, but still thats insane.

Very nice! That should be enough to wreck most titans in one go for just a bit more than 250 points before the Primus/Psyker support (throw in another for Mass Hypnosis if the target has good guns). Eight Aberrants with Primus and Magnus will also fit in either of our dedicated transport options as well, so they have some deployment flexibility too.

One saw squad and one blasting charge squad is growing on me.

The ability to snap out a bunch of shots against things that absolutely need to die with blasting charges, and still being able to charge with normal attacks, seems like it would be decent to have a mix of both.

How doea the primus work with the new chapter aproved stratagem? Do you roll 3 dice? Is the primus allowed to re-roll some or all of them?

3 Dice, reroll all 3 if you want. Can't see any reason to the contrary.

What I read from blood of kittens, it might be an abreviation, but that is how I see it as well. Seems like a very good way to get some genestealers to make the charge from reserves. I am a tyranid player and the cult stealers and the prime comes in at about 145 extra over regular stealers (60 for 20 stealers and 85 for the prime.) But it might be worth it for a good charge.

Interested in that box set, are the changes in Chapter Approved enough to boost GSC back up? They seemed like they were a bit over-costed before.

I'd be interested in the box if it didn't have the guardsmen neophytes and the truck. Wish it was just a huge, actual GSC infantry box.

However, yes, I believe the changes are for the better, without a doubt.

Ran a nid/GSC hybrid list, and I made good use of the chapter approved stratagems. Played Vs Iron Hands SM with a Knight Paladin. The primus guided in 4 habberrants, they got boosted with might from beyond and the knight got mass hypnotised. The aberrants did 15 wounds on the first swing, 3 of them died in retaliation and the survivor did another 6 wounds with adrenaline surge. The same aberrant then proceeded to get roided by MfB each turn and took down a librarian and a predator and ultimately survived the game. Fun times

How did you get a mass hypnosis and a might from the beyond off? Magus and patriarch ambush in that way too? Or. Does familiar allow you to cast any broodmind spell aside from one you casted already?

I ambushed 3 magi alongside, one with each power and used mind control on the superheavy to bait out the deny he had nearby, using LoS blocking terrain to prevent his other psykers from being able to deny. I did get very lucky with the consistent power success though

I'm fairly certain LoS is irrelevant for DTW.

Guard player here, looking to join the cult. Playing around with wanting to bring some extra melee punch to my lists with some acolytes, genestealers, and abberants supported by a patriarch magus and a primus or two.

Would running 2 10 man squads of acolytes with rock saws and a rock cutter or drill in the mix be a viable competitive idea? I should have a ton of CP to re-roll any undesirable shadows rolls ontop of the re-rolls the primus allows. Patriarch would run with 20 stealers, and 8 abberants would come in with a primus as well.

Its kind of a minor topic at this point, but how are folks feeling about the Seismic Cannon mini-version now that it's been nearly halved in cost? its still garbage outside of 12" range (4 lasgun shots...smh GW what the frick...) but since we have very good ways to get inside 12", how do you think two seismics for 20pts will stack up in an ambushing neophyte squad with 2 GLs as well?

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Guard player here, looking to join the cult. Playing around with wanting to bring some extra melee punch to my lists with some acolytes, genestealers, and abberants supported by a patriarch magus and a primus or two.

Would running 2 10 man squads of acolytes with rock saws and a rock cutter or drill in the mix be a viable competitive idea? I should have a ton of CP to re-roll any undesirable shadows rolls ontop of the re-rolls the primus allows. Patriarch would run with 20 stealers, and 8 abberants would come in with a primus as well.

Hello Brood Brother!

If running 10 man squads you almost surely need to equip 4 of them with special weapons - it's kind of a waste otherwise in my opinion. So far the best option is Heavy Rock Saw (as it got points decreased) and Demolition Charges (as they are very cheap and effective). You could convert a Rock Cutter to Rock Saw using spare bits from Chainswords or those bladed circles from Goliath Truck (or rather the Rockgrinder version).

Patriarch with 20 Genestealers will break face most assuredly.

Good luck getting 8 Aberrant with Power Hammers (the best option) though... It would require at the very least 2 boxes of Deathwatch Overkill at least if you convert those with picks to have hammers.

Decided to start my first 40k Army in 20 years and ordered the cult Battleforce box. Is the Astra Militarum battle force a good box to expand it with and if so, what unit setup is best and should they be kept as Cadians or as cultists?

Finally (sorry for all the questions), is the Deathwatch Overkill still worth picking up if I have both Battleforce boxes?

Thanks

 Kandela wrote:
Good luck getting 8 Aberrant with Power Hammers (the best option) though... It would require at the very least 2 boxes of Deathwatch Overkill at least if you convert those with picks to have hammers.

Already picked up 4 from eBay and currently the high bidder on 4 more.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm fairly certain LoS is irrelevant for DTW.

Well I learned somthing new today, thank you.

Aeneades wrote:
Decided to start my first 40k Army in 20 years and ordered the cult Battleforce box. Is the Astra Militarum battle force a good box to expand it with and if so, what unit setup is best and should they be kept as Cadians or as cultists?

Finally (sorry for all the questions), is the Deathwatch Overkill still worth picking up if I have both Battleforce boxes?

Thanks

Though I'm weird in that I like my Cultists as meatshields for my Magi (their rule rocks!) I heard that optimal use of GSC xmasbox and AM xmasbox is to take the mining suit cultists and acolytes with some added Genestealers and a Patriarch with Magi as one detachment and taking AM looking cultists as AM with the AM box as Battalion. People like their orders and AM is very competitive right now. Besides you get a Chimera, Leman Russ and Sentinel - all of which can be used as GSC.

Deathwatch Overkill is in my opinion still worth taking if you want more cultists and HQs. It's also the only source of Aberrants right now (though they are equipped with two different weapons - so if you want 4 of the same you have to convert them or buy two boxes). Acolytes that come in that box are pretty useless in my opinion as they don't come with any special weapons.

Hope that helps.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:

 Kandela wrote:
Good luck getting 8 Aberrant with Power Hammers (the best option) though... It would require at the very least 2 boxes of Deathwatch Overkill at least if you convert those with picks to have hammers.

Already picked up 4 from eBay and currently the high bidder on 4 more.

Man, I envy you. In my region eBay asks for ludicrous amount of money for transit.

Granted they are the ones from the box set and I'm not going to bother trying to replace the picks with hammers, just run them as is.

I play with a small group of people and no one really minds about WYSIWYG.

The pick to hammer conversion is really easy though, jus cover one end in greenstuff then square it off once it dries

Requizen wrote:Interested in that box set, are the changes in Chapter Approved enough to boost GSC back up? They seemed like they were a bit over-costed before.

While the points adjustments are nice, I'd say the biggest area of improvement is the new stratagems. When combined they revitalized ambush-centric lists since units can once again start on the table and be reliably redeployed where they are needed. Also larger units are now more viable since the points investment isn't stranded in whatever table section they arrived after ambushing, allowing more work to be gotten out of them.

I'll be picking up my copy of Chapter Approved today before bed, so I'll see about updating the main post over the weekend with the new content.

the_scotsman wrote:Its kind of a minor topic at this point, but how are folks feeling about the Seismic Cannon mini-version now that it's been nearly halved in cost? its still garbage outside of 12" range (4 lasgun shots...smh GW what the frick...) but since we have very good ways to get inside 12", how do you think two seismics for 20pts will stack up in an ambushing neophyte squad with 2 GLs as well?

I'd definitely run them with the grenade launchers, but don't discount their capabilities at long range either. Four Lasgun shots per gun doesn't sound impressive, but combined with the grenade launchers you are adding a minimum of 10 extra shots to the unit outside of rapid fire range which allows the Neophytes to trade shots against rapid-fire wielding opponents without exposing themselves to the opponent's double tap. The other benefit is that the guns allow most of the squad's firepower to be concentrated in 4 models that you can insure will die last, so the loss of firepower isn't as drastic as it is on a Guardsmen squad for instance.

10 Guardsmen with First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!: 20 shots.
10 Neophytes with Seismic Cannons/Grenade Launchers: 16-26 shots, 21 shots on average.
vs.
5 Guardsmen with First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!: 10 shots. (50% loss of firepower)
5 Neophytes with Seismic Cannons/Grenade Launchers: 11-21 shots, 16 shots on average. (24% loss of firepower)

Cephalobeard wrote:I'd be interested in the box if it didn't have the guardsmen neophytes and the truck. Wish it was just a huge, actual GSC infantry box.

To be fair, that is basically what the Overkill box is if you ignore the Deathwatch and game parts. If I could make a tweak to the battleforce, I'd have swapped the Brood Coven for an Acolyte Iconward and another vehicle or maybe more Acolytes/Genestealers. Still, it is a nice box for someone starting out as it covers almost all of the HQs and gives a good assortment of models for a battalion, just not so nice for someone like me who already has 3 Overkill boxes and doesn't really need more Patriarchs/Primus/Magi.

Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Would running 2 10 man squads of acolytes with rock saws and a rock cutter or drill in the mix be a viable competitive idea? I should have a ton of CP to re-roll any undesirable shadows rolls ontop of the re-rolls the primus allows. Patriarch would run with 20 stealers, and 8 abberants would come in with a primus as well.

Ten-strong with maxed out special weapons has more or less been how I have been running my Acolyte squads pre-Chapter Approved, though with the new stratagems you may be better served running them in a squad of 20 if you are only planning on ambushing them since it makes Cult Icons and stratagems more efficient. With 10-strong units I'd borrow a Chimera from your Guard collection to transport them around while leaving open the possibility of ambush if a good opportunity presents itself.

As for weapons, Saws are your general purpose weapon best used en-mass while the Cutters are for character/monster hunting and the Drills are for hunting large targets in general due to their high damage potential. Demolition Charges are a strong alpha strike weapon that can be thought of as being akin to one-use melta weapons in operation, though with much higher damage potential due to the greater volume of shots at the cost of short range.

Aeneades wrote:Decided to start my first 40k Army in 20 years and ordered the cult Battleforce box. Is the Astra Militarum battle force a good box to expand it with and if so, what unit setup is best and should they be kept as Cadians or as cultists?

Welcome back! The Astra Militarum box should suffice nicely, as it gives you the ability to use the bulk of the contents (save Commissar) as part of your GSC army or expand a Brood Brothers detachment if you want access to the rest of the AM armory. Most of the options available to the Cadians in their box are also available to Neophytes, so you needn't be too concerned over building them as one or the other save for maybe some head swaps (Neophyte heads look much better).

Aeneades wrote:
(sorry for all the questions)

No need to apologize for asking questions, we're here to help!

 Kandela wrote:

Acolytes that come in that box are pretty useless in my opinion as they don't come with any special weapons.

Actually they are quite useful for filling out the generic models in a squad. The Overkill box basically comes with two squads of 6 Acolytes (with the robed models being squad leaders), so you only need to provide 4 special weapons to fill out a 10-strong unit. Getting 4 special weapons out of a single Acolyte box is fairly easy (2x Demolition Charges + 1 of each other weapon) so you can build enough equipment for both squads with just two of them.

C4790M wrote:
The pick to hammer conversion is really easy though, jus cover one end in greenstuff then square it off once it dries

The new Necromunda Goliath gang box also comes with at least 2 Power Hammers in it, so if you know anyone with the kit they may be willing to part with a few if they didn't use them. Admittedly, the Goliath gang in general would probably make some nice Aberrants with a bit of kitbashing (add a Rending Claw/extra arm somewhere and swap punk head with a 2nd generation acolyte head).

I turned my entire goliath kit into aberrants by adding rending claws and genestealer/acolyte heads. They turned out pretty good

C4790M wrote:
I turned my entire goliath kit into aberrants by adding rending claws and genestealer/acolyte heads. They turned out pretty good

You wouldn't happen to have pictures would you? Would be neat to see as proof of concept.

C4790M wrote:
I turned my entire goliath kit into aberrants by adding rending claws and genestealer/acolyte heads. They turned out pretty good

Do you mean the necromunda goliaths?

 Strat_N8 wrote:

C4790M wrote:
I turned my entire goliath kit into aberrants by adding rending claws and genestealer/acolyte heads. They turned out pretty good

You wouldn't happen to have pictures would you? Would be neat to see as proof of concept.

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/54298/c4790m-cheap-knockoffs-conversion-compilation

The Aberrants are down at the bottom of the post. Would love some feedback on them. Some aren’t strictly WYSIWYG as they have saws/choppas instead of hammers, but they’re close enough for casual. I deliberately went inconsistent with the size and number of arms as they supposed to be highly mutated

Nice! Those turned out really well. I'll have to see about converting a few myself to diversify my forces a bit.

In regards to the test color, for mine I used my Hive Fleet's skin color on the alien parts with a complimentary flesh tone for the human parts (in my case a somewhat tanned flesh, since the Tyranid skin is a brownish orange) and used the chitin color for the face plates and spines. Given your Hive Fleet has a fairly dark green skin, I'd probably use something like Death Guard Green or Deathworld Forest for the hybrid skin so the flesh stands out from the mutations.


In other news, the main thread has been updated with the new material from Chapter Approved.

I like the abberant conversions, C4790M. The 3rd-generation heads look best IMO.

Thanks for the feedback on the aberrants!

Got to play a open war game vs primaris Ultramarines today using a hybrid tyranid/GSC list. A few things:

Aberrants are great at killing primaris
While the primus’ aura is great, I struggle to get it to affect more than one unit, and I also find the primus just sits there awkwardly, contributing nothing except the aura
Acolytes are probably the most fragile glass cannons we have and I’m not sure if its worth the payoff, I’m just going to stick to neophytes in future I think (which is a shame, I love the models)

Tyranid FAQ dropped and among other things GSC no longer can benefit from the Tyranid Stratagems (all instances of "Tyranids" is now Tyranids with <Hive Fleet> keyword) or relics/warlord traits. Bit sad but not entirely unexpected. Since none of the stratagems can be used on GSC models I've taken the liberty of removing them from the original post alongside the Astra Militarum ones to simplify the section (I'll probably write up a dedicated ally section and put the handful of cross-faction stratagems left there).

Still, no major nerfs on the Tyranid side of things besides the aforementioned cross-faction capabilities. They should still make a good ally option.

C4790M wrote:

While the primus’ aura is great, I struggle to get it to affect more than one unit, and I also find the primus just sits there awkwardly, contributing nothing except the aura

Is he charging in as well or sitting back? I've generally not had too much difficulty getting multiple units in range if he is in combat as well, but it is easier with low model count units (Aberrants and Rockgrinders especially). His 2+ to wound Rending Claw is actually fairly capable as long as the target isn't a vehicle, though he doesn't want to get into a fight with opposing characters since his defenses aren't that great.

C4790M wrote:

Acolytes are probably the most fragile glass cannons we have and I’m not sure if its worth the payoff, I’m just going to stick to neophytes in future I think (which is a shame, I love the models)

Might also be having a bit of conflict with the Aberrants since melee-minded Acolytes fulfill a similar function in a list (trading raw strength for a bit of flexibility). One of the reasons I like Demolition Charges so much is that they let the squad do a huge chunk of damage in one go and then their perceived threat drops significantly so they tend to live longer. I'm planning on trying out a few larger melee-centric units with our new stratagems at our gaming group this week, so we'll see how it goes.

Aeneades wrote:
Decided to start my first 40k Army in 20 years and ordered the cult Battleforce box. Is the Astra Militarum battle force a good box to expand it with and if so, what unit setup is best and should they be kept as Cadians or as cultists?

Finally (sorry for all the questions), is the Deathwatch Overkill still worth picking up if I have both Battleforce boxes?

Thanks

I would say the perfect start to a GSC army would be DWO+Battleforce. The DWO sculpts are incredibly easy to convert using the bits from the multipart kit (the shoulder landing for their arms is perfectly flat, so you just clip them at the shoulders and you can put whatever arms on there) so to get the most out of the 5 multipart acolytes I would recommend using the 12 monopose acolytes and just clipping them, thatr way you can have all the special upgrade weapons and whatnot. The DWO neophytes are monopose as well and harder to convert but they're monopose in the most competitive loadout anyway (Autoguns, GLs, mining lasers).

biggest problem with the pair is you get two broodcovens, which is honestly not a big deal, as youre going to want 2 of most of the HQs anyway, since those three are the good HQs.