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Oh fair. I thought you meant he was deepstriking.

 AlexHeap wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:

 AlexHeap wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Some really good synergy there with both shooty and countercharge elements. Any good combo's spring to mind? Added range on Dakkabots and electropriests?

If you take him as Lucius you can deepstrike a big unit of Electropriests and Solar Flare him over so they get the +1 to charge.

Not sure because you have to select his ability at the beginning of the movement phase. But I suppose we can wait for a FAQ?

Why would that need an FAQ? He's on the board at the beginning of the movement phase so is fine to activate the ability.

You could also deep strike some vigilus kastellans in a Lucius detachment, pop the strat giving +3 to charge solar flare this guy across and give a further +1 to charge...

Yeah, the Solar Flare probably wouldn't work with Bolter Weapons though, considering the teleportation will be seen as movement. But Bolter Warriors shouldn't be a problem.

Well the new hq's buff rules are out and its so dissapointing it specifies forgeworld because the one unit i want to buff with it is the hoplites and they are not effected

Just need to wait and see what points he will be? I am thinking about 50-60 max. More than that and I will just get the model for kill team and probably not use him in 40k as you could get 2 engineers instead

I`d bet 60.
30, 60, 90

Though that is really scratching the uppermost limit on what he's worth.

He seems alright, he will give himself a 21" range Magnarail Lance which kinda makes up for the poop range. He also makes vanguards 21" range wwith plasma and radiums which is nice, rangers 36" range with galvanics and 30" with arc rifles which is tasty (and 66" range arquebuses just for lols), kastellans at 42" range with blasters or a 15" flamer, makes our kataphrons range 42" with plasma and range 36" with grav and then 11" flamers, onagers get 54" neutrons and icarus arrays.

So if you dont want two enginseers you could have 2 Manipulus, one giving the range enhance and one giving the speed enhancement which is quite nice, finally we have a movement 9" Dragoons and Sicarians back!

The movement says its range is increased when the roll is made but when does the range modifier stop working? End of Turn? Start of your next turn? Im guessing its the start of your next movement which is nice for overwatch purposes.

Hes a quite good defensive buffer.

A very missed opportunity IMO, especially he's sold as the Infiltrators guy. The unit, with the innate DS, that cant capitalise on Manipulus rules, due to completely screwed "at the beginning of the movement" wording. That wording makes this guy a very niche addition, basically being viable mainly next to Mars Kastelan castle.

I've said it once, and since this release preview my point is only strengthened - someone in 40k rules team hates the Admech. They want us to be 40k Dwarves, without Dwarves survivability and range. Admech is supposed to castle camp and play the dull version of the reactive, instead proactive, game.

Looks good to me and with the choice of buffs I imagine it'll make appearances in a great many mono-Ad Mech lists. Depends largely on points cost but it's less than a Dominus and isn't an unneeded extra Enginseer so there won't be much reason not to take him.

 deffrekka wrote:
He seems alright, he will give himself a 21" range Magnarail Lance which kinda makes up for the poop range. He also makes vanguards 21" range wwith plasma and radiums which is nice, rangers 36" range with galvanics and 30" with arc rifles which is tasty (and 66" range arquebuses just for lols), kastellans at 42" range with blasters or a 15" flamer, makes our kataphrons range 42" with plasma and range 36" with grav and then 11" flamers, onagers get 54" neutrons and icarus arrays.

So if you dont want two enginseers you could have 2 Manipulus, one giving the range enhance and one giving the speed enhancement which is quite nice, finally we have a movement 9" Dragoons and Sicarians back!

The movement says its range is increased when the roll is made but when does the range modifier stop working? End of Turn? Start of your next turn? Im guessing its the start of your next movement which is nice for overwatch purposes.

Hes a quite good defensive buffer.

Good spot on overwatch those Flamers on the kataphrons now can't be avoided due to charges from outside your range...

 deffrekka wrote:
The movement says its range is increased when the roll is made but when does the range modifier stop working? End of Turn? Start of your next turn? Im guessing its the start of your next movement which is nice for overwatch purposes.

They last until the start of the next movement phase. It's the first line of both effects.

On the other hand most of the time they will just shoot your destroyers. Its a pretty weak use. It could be of minor benefit to vanguard and corpuscarii (which is a rarity). Everything else can already hit 3/4 of the board except infiltrators which will DS

As to useing two it doesnt really work because one has to be stationary and the other moves the squad out of range.

I wont buy one if its more than about 40-45pts because really its a enginseer with +1 sv and a better gun

He can also repair any admech model, not just vehicles, so he can help repair Kataphrons or other tech priest characters around him. Niche but I've found that ability very helpful on my Dominus, since I'm pretty sure it can combo with bionics.

He's actually growing on me now. He's really a Swiss army knife character that can be used for all kinds of things. I wish the stupid magna rail wasn't heavy so he could advance up with my vanguard but I may still take one with the flamer and give it a shot. He's a great tool for kataphrons and Kastellans, both have that 36" range and sometimes that's just a little short. And then he has a decent melee profile, but of course he doesn't get an axe so we can't give him those relics. He seems like a good choice for the mask, he's the most mobile Techpriest we have and the best in melee, even if that's only because the rest are really bad.

I just hate how he can't move if he buffs our weapons. We used to be known for always moving and shooting without penalties, at least as skitarii. A lot of the new abilities and weapons encourage us to stay still and that gets really boring. That and his magna rail only being 18" or 21" with the buff hurts too. If it had a 24" range base or been an assault weapon I'd have no real complaints with him. People at my store are really going to hate him, they already hate all the plasma vanguard I spam as is, so when they're getting an extra 2" movement every turn that's going to make them surprisingly fast.

Thing is the kataphrons really need a domminous or cawl they dont need an extra repair the dominoud. Plus do they really need the range i mean its effectively 36- 42" as you can move without penalty. Do yoy want to move them towards the enemy faster.

Moving is not an option with the increased range, not only cant he move for any reason for this turn, but the units only get the buff while they are within the 6", so they have to be around him for the shooting phase.

Give him the flamer and the Omniscient Mask, and my Dragoons have a new babysitter.

Hey, he got the +1 to charges like I wanted. Now he has a use.

The range buff is certainly interesting though. Galvanic Rifles being able to rapid fire at 18" is pretty damn strong actually, and giving Rangers 21" is a nice little buff to their threat range.

Use for what he doesnt buff hoplites or deep strikers so no beta strikeing lucius. Or infiltrators

Footslogging electropriests and ruststalkers maybe but when did you last see that in competative. Dragoons out pace him

He basically buffs.troops but rangers still do almost no damage vanguard dont really want to be in cc and while the range buff does benefit them is it.really worth much of a pts investment

U02dah4 wrote:
Use for what he doesnt buff hoplites or deep strikers so no beta strikeing lucius. Or infiltrators

Footslogging electropriests and ruststalkers maybe but when did you last see that in competative. Dragoons out pace him

He basically buffs.troops but rangers still do almost no damage vanguard dont really want to be in cc and while the range buff does benefit them is it.really worth much of a pts investment

+6 range on Kataphrons can be quite useful

Rarely most of the damage is main gun so

Heavy arc rifle +plasma are 36" range they can move and fire without penalty so 42" range assuming you deploy 12-24" forward depending on deployment type thats 54" -66" without advancing an extra 6" is going to make no difference in the majority of circumstances even the grav ends up at 48-60"

U02dah4 wrote:
Footslogging electropriests and ruststalkers maybe but when did you last see that in competative. Dragoons out pace him

Dragoons may out pace him, but not by much when you consider that he's advancing but the Dragoons are (hopefully) not.

I wonder what his point cost is. Because the Manipulus is pretty much auto-take. Perhaps you might even need to take TWO to get both abilities. 42" Dakkabots and Kataphrons, 54" Icarus Crawlers. They can also move, advance, and charge another 1". Have each Manipulus take turns, leap-frogging them; one guy Bolsters Warriors, the other guy Bolsters Weapons. It just drastically improves the reach of the army in general.

 The Forgemaster wrote:
You could also deep strike some vigilus kastellans in a Lucius detachment, pop the strat giving +3 to charge solar flare this guy across and give a further +1 to charge...

I don't think they need any more help getting into range, given how ridiculously easy it is with a command reroll.

Giving a Manipulus Anzion's Pseudogenetor could be fun.
3 str6 attacks, d6 mechadendrite attacks, then another d6 relic mechadendrite attacks.

I'm looking at two. Pure admech you want two batallions at least which means for non Mars Dominus, 2 manipulus, and an enginseer for the sweet spot I think. That let's you have an agressive one moving up with stuff like Dragoons and vanguard and a defensive one buffing Kastelan, Kataphrons, rangers, etc. The nice bit is they can switch as needed, so you can react to the flow of the game. So if you need to counter charge your manipulus tending to your Kastellans can switch to the movement mode to help some Dragoons get into a combat, or vice versa.

So for example that dumb strafing run Kastelan idea I had, a manipulus would be a good addition as long as he can keep up. He makes them faster as they run up, and then when you've found a spot you want to hold you put him into the ranged mode alongside them and they can cover pretty much anything they would be able to see. Not the most competitive thing sure but an example of how he can be used with both modes.

While I was wishing for reroll 1's to wound, I must say I like that this character has far more nuance than 90% if the HQ's in the game who just let you reroll to hit rolls. I have a feeling we'll see a lot of neat ideas start to emerge with him once we see his full set of rules.

Manipulus looks great (unless he has a rediculous point cost), especially because I can't think of any reason why I would ever want more than one Enginseer in a list (HQ slot filling is all nice and dandy, but you usually only need one before every additional one turns into 30ppm dead weight).

He's definitely VERY nice for more defensive infantry spamming, Rangers going to 18" rapid fire range (heck, the only other infantry unit (aside from Marines who have to stay immobile for the most part) who gets that are Tau Fire Warriors, but only if you keep a rather fragile pulse accelerator drone with a rather small 3" buff range around them) is nice, and cheap and easily spammed Arc Rifles getting 15" range makes them even more attractive. Congo lining isn't much of an issue either. Meanwhile a horde of Vanguard benefits from getting 2" of bonus movement if they advance and have a Manipulus running along with him (who also enjoys getting 8"+D6 movement on top of his flamer range). I like it, and am happy because I wanted our next HQ to be an effective infantry buffer anyway.

But even in a firebase (where it is easiest to get around him not being able to move), Dakkabots going from 36"->42" range is really, REALLY nice, especially if you have to break their legs with a Binaric Override. Kataphron's and everyone's favorite mecha crabs are the other big winners, 42" heavy stubbers are nice for cleaning backfield objective sitters and bubble wraps, and you can't say no to the extra range for the main guns either - both units also have zero issues moving into the 6" buff radius thanks to moving and firing without penalty.

I like to play a whole bunch of Rangers, 3 Crabs, 3 Dakkabots, a Dominus and a Lascannon-Chicken in my Stygies list, and my firebase gets considerably buffed with those tasty bolstered weapons.

The magnarail going to 21" range and the fact that you automatically get the weapon's 3D buff when you have to stay immobile anyways means that he likely at least gets to contribute a bit of firepower at range.

I mean, outside of melee specialists, is there any unit in our Codex that isn't benefiting from having a Manipulus around? Especially considering that most of our shooty units seem to have 24"+ weapon ranges. Heck, even flamers having 11" range is REALLY nice to counter the usual long-range chargers.

Goddamit, now I regret not having a third Dominus to convert into a Manipulus. Will have to sleep on whether I am going to buy the Killteam box (getting 5 Ruststalkers isn't half bad for building and painting fun and having a unit for nerfing my lists for beer&bretzels games) or a cheap Dominus on ebay.

U02dah4 wrote:
Thing is the kataphrons really need a domminous or cawl they dont need an extra repair the dominoud. Plus do they really need the range i mean its effectively 36- 42" as you can move without penalty. Do yoy want to move them towards the enemy faster.

Enginseers can do literally NOTHING but repair. Usually having 2-3 of them means that you have 60 points worth of characters on the field twiddling their thumbs and contributing absolutely nothing besides filling HQ slots. Anyone (like me) who wants to play pure Admech will be happy to get a nice HQ slot filling alternative that can provide a bunch of new and unique buffs that synergize with Cawl and the good old Dominus and the units they usually buff. It also really helps forgeworld's that aren't Mars and are forced to take a Dominus (or two) + a bunch of enginseers if they want more than one battalion. Him being able to repair as well is simply another nice bonus. Heck, even if the Manipulus is 60-70ish points I'd take him over 2 enginseers any time of the day point for point.

Even melee specialists like the Manipulus. Here's a 6-man dragoon squad. Here's Clandestine Infiltration. Conga-line well enough to the Manipulus (easy with those massive bases) and now they're moving 11" (+ the previous 9") and charging +1". So that's a 3" charge essentially from deployment zone to deployment zone on a 24" between deployment zone map (Hammer and Anvil for example). It'd be totally doable to move and then charge 30" before your opponent even gets a turn.

Enginseer 1 my only mars hq cant repair but omniscient mask accompanying my 3 hoplite units overpowered and when he dies 30 pts is not a loss hes made it back in the buff

Enginseer 2 eye of agripinaa sure he repairs a.frontline unit in some games but really hes there to laser point that vehicle its essential as he force multiplies half the units in my army

Enginseer 3 yes this is the repair one back with my onagers and ballistarii thing is if he repairs twice during a game hes made his points back. At 60 pts he would need to repair 4 times not reliable

If your enginseers are doing nothing your useing them wrong

Far as i can see he effectively buffs vanguard and maybe corpuscarii for movement and you probably dont care about the vanguard and probably arnt running corpuscarii.

His range buff isnt terrible on dakkabots because.they cant move but anything else 30"+ just doesnt need it the majority of the time so yes its technically a buff but if your onagers target was somewhere within the 56"range +movement it normally has its not benefiting


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jackal444 wrote:
Even melee specialists like the Manipulus. Here's a 6-man dragoon squad. Here's Clandestine Infiltration. Conga-line well enough to the Manipulus (easy with those massive bases) and now they're moving 11" (+ the previous 9") and charging +1". So that's a 3" charge essentially from deployment zone to deployment zone on a 24" between deployment zone map (Hammer and Anvil for example). It'd be totally doable to move and then charge 30" before your opponent even gets a turn.

11+9+8 expectancy so your smart opponent deploys 5-6" back or sacrifices a guard squad or eq as a screen prior to nerf your opponent didnt have the option to deploy back it made it much stronger not a terrible combo but its makeing a less reliable tactic.slightly better

Not everyone is running weird mixed FW detachments though. Your enginseers main utility is being cheap relic caddies, which is a niche scenario. if you're not mixing the FW most you're going to see is maybe 2 relics worth taking an enginseer for. Yes this thread is tactics but it's not just tactics for ITC, it can be tactics for standard play or trying to stay pure admech or whatever.

I understand pure detachments may not be the best for competitive play but to the average player I think it's safe to say the Manipulus gives you more usefulness and utility than an extra enginseer. For the average player more than 1 is usually diminishing returns and more than 2 definitely diminishing returns because most people aren't mixing FW's yet. For them, as long as the Manipulus isn't 70+ points it's a good choice after you get the initial enginseer.

Maybe that will change with time, but I have a feeling if this style of mixing tons of traits in one detachment to milk strategems and relics for maximum gain becomes popular GW will Nerf it somehow. They've shown in the past they don't like weird mixed detachments. Don't get me wrong the mixed detachment idea is clever and I like it, especially after Mechanicus shows the FW's working together on the same ship. I just wouldny paint my army that way personally because it feels like something GW will put an end to at some point.

No i run pure detachments just more than 1 and different forgeworlds for each.

Its a terrible choice unless the pts are really low for the avg player anything 36" range or more can pretty much hit the whole board it doesnt need to be range buffed, it cant buff deepstrikers and doesnt impact our best footsloggers. The majority of games your paying for utility that wont impact the game meaningfully.

I hadnt noticed it couldnt buff across forgeworlds but that does make it worse

U02dah4 wrote:
No i run pure detachments just more than 1 and different forgeworlds for each.

Its a terrible choice unless the pts are really low for the avg player anything 36" range or more can pretty much hit the whole board it doesnt need to be range buffed, it cant buff deepstrikers and doesnt impact our best footsloggers. The majority of games your paying for utility that wont impact the game meaningfully.

I hadnt noticed it couldnt buff across forgeworlds but that does make it worse

I'd like to notice that even with additional 6" to a 42" total, it's not that helpful due to his being grounded effect. Kastelans can move and increase their range by 8" already, so to get the additional 6" bonus someone have to conga and most probably be out of range. Kataphrons have 6" movement, without the penalty to hit. Onagers - again 8" (although due to thei dinner plate bases catching the aura will be easier). Manipulus definetely doesn't buff the slogging Infantry because of that penalty, as everyone has at least 6" movement - unless again doing congas limiting the firepower. This guy is, in my eyes at least, designed to support the castle. But Admech castles do not score points.

Besides we are living in the world, where Lootas or Dark Reapers have 48" range anyway, and can either Da Jump or Fire and Fade. 42" on a grounded Kastelans unit is not remotely close to deal with the opponents we will meet. I'm buying the model for the model, but I guess he will gather dust in the end (unless I try to Solar Flare the guy around for a Corpuscarii DS support).