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2017/10/02 14:53:37
Subject: Re:Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
trexmeyer wrote: I'm betting he had an AK-47 with a 60/100 mag drum. Cheapest and easiest firearm (to illegally) acquire with a high rate of fire. 7.62 will do a lot of damage.
Yeah whatever the firearm, it definitely was a drum. I own a (lawful) AK with a bump fire stock, and the strings in the video are not 30 round mags, they're probably 75 round drums.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2017/10/02 14:56:50
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
Frazzled wrote: On gun threads, after listening to the video there is some argument that he was potentially using a bumpfire of some sort.
That seems unlikely. pretty hard to shoot straight with that kind of mechanism - were talking about 300-400 yard shooting here. They make digital triggers that can basically double your ROF per trigger pull and they have no weight - so probably about tripple ROF compared to a stock trigger. Those are expensive - I couldn't see anyone modifying more than 1 rifle this way.. It's really not that hard to rig a fully automatic AK-47 or AR-15 ether. I think we will find that of the 10 guns he had in the room on a few of them were used. To me it sounds like AK-47 firing.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2017/10/02 14:59:30
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
Xenomancers wrote: That seems unlikely. pretty hard to shoot straight with that kind of mechanism - were talking about 300-400 yard shooting here.
FWIW on google maps it is exactly 400 yards / 377 meters. While bumpfire is indeed inaccurate I'm not sure what level of accuracy is required to hit an enormous mass of people. Of course no one knows yet so this is all just speculation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 15:03:54
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2017/10/02 15:04:29
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
skyth wrote: Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...
Just spit balling here.
I highly doubt any concert would allow attendees to carry firearms, regardless of genre or any perceived political leanings.
I was in TN for a music festival and I saw undercover police and what one guy said being retired carry side-arms.
However, not sure what they could've done as the LV shooter was on the 32nd floor shooting THREE football fields away... (edit, seeing Ouze's post, make that FOUR football fields)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 15:06:18
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2017/10/02 15:14:56
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
skyth wrote: Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...
Just spit balling here.
I highly doubt any concert would allow attendees to carry firearms, regardless of genre or any perceived political leanings.
I was in TN for a music festival and I saw undercover police and what one guy said being retired carry side-arms.
However, not sure what they could've done as the LV shooter was on the 32nd floor shooting THREE football fields away... (edit, seeing Ouze's post, make that FOUR football fields)
No way they could return fire from the event. Not with pistols anyways. It's possible he was hiding his muzzle flash too. I don't see any flashes in any of the videos (though they wern't good quality). Something as simple as wrapping wet towel around the muzzle will take away most of the muzzle flash. They only found him because of a fire alarm from what is being reported.
Something that will probably become standard for events like this is a tech invented by the army. It uses the sound of the gunshot to locate an enemy sniper quickly. I don't know how many lives could have been saved if they had it but just knowing what direction the shooting was coming from would have been very useful in helping people escape and where to hide.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2017/10/02 15:16:06
Subject: Re:Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
skyth wrote: Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...
Just spit balling here.
I highly doubt any concert would allow attendees to carry firearms, regardless of genre or any perceived political leanings.
I was in TN for a music festival and I saw undercover police and what one guy said being retired carry side-arms.
However, not sure what they could've done as the LV shooter was on the 32nd floor shooting THREE football fields away... (edit, seeing Ouze's post, make that FOUR football fields)
The off duty police who were present were armed, but they had hand guns. The shooter, being a quarter mile away, those things were useless. The only way to have engaged him from the site of the concert would have been with a high powered rifle, and given that risk of causing civcas given where he was firing from, they probably wouldn't have engaged even then. This man picked his site for the attack very intelligently. It enabled him maximum time to get off as many rounds as possible.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2017/10/02 15:17:48
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
Xenomancers wrote: That seems unlikely. pretty hard to shoot straight with that kind of mechanism - were talking about 300-400 yard shooting here.
FWIW on google maps it is exactly 400 yards / 377 meters. While bumpfire is indeed inaccurate I'm not sure what level of accuracy is required to hit an enormous mass of people.
The target if you can call it that was a blob of people probably at least 200 yards wide anyway. "In the general direction" was enough.
2017/10/02 15:20:58
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
Unless those concert attendees had rifles (and scopes) of their own, there's really nothing they could have done.
As for locating the shooter, my guess is that other people in the hotel were on the phone to the police once the shooting started. The thing about rifles is that they're really loud. I'm thinking that the SWAT team that went to the gunman's room didn't even know about the concert or what was happening over there.
2017/10/02 15:22:03
Subject: Re:Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
Ouze wrote: The NYPD has those deployed all over the city to almost immediately triangulate the sound of a gunshot.
That makes sense. They would never find a shooter otherwise.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2017/10/02 15:31:43
Subject: Re:Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
Breotan wrote: As for locating the shooter, my guess is that other people in the hotel were on the phone to the police once the shooting started.
His weapons fire set off smoke alarms in his room, which is how the SWAT team was able to find find him out of the 3000+ rooms in the Mandalay Bay. It took about 20 minutes and he was already dead when they breached the door.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 15:46:22
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2017/10/02 15:48:10
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
skyth wrote: Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...
Just spit balling here.
I highly doubt any concert would allow attendees to carry firearms, regardless of genre or any perceived political leanings.
Right. From my understanding concert goers were not allowed to carry guns in with them.
Even if someone managed to sneak a gun in to the concert, it would probably be a hand gun. There would have been no way someone with a handgun would have been able to hit from that distance away and that high up while in a sea of panicked people.
This guy planned it so that he would cause confusion and disorient people making harder to find him.
Edit: Friend passed along to me when I said concert goers might not have been able to have firearms in the concert.
http://www.nevadacarry.org/
Spoiler:
Weapon laws (NRS Ch. 202)
Concealed weapon permits (CCW) are-shall issue and open carry is legal without a permit. Nevada does not ban 'assault weapons' and there is no magazine capacity limit. There are no purchase permits, gun registration, or gun-owner licensing. Blue cards are no longer required. There is no waiting period mandated for firearm purchases and private gun sales are okay. Local gun laws are prohibited. You do not have to "register" a gun to someone else.
Government Buildings
You cannot carry in the secure area of airports (past TSA checkpoints) and concealed carry only is prohibited in public buildings where 'no guns' signs are posted or metal detectors are present at each public entrance. (NRS 202.3673). Open carry is not regulated in any non-school public building.
No guns signs
Signs do not have the force of law on private property. In public buildings, only concealed carry is banned where 'no guns' signs are posted or metal detectors are present at each public entrance (NRS 202.3673).
Bar carry
It is legal to carry concealed or openly in a bar or restaurant, even while consuming alcohol. One cannot possess a firearm if their blood alcohol content is more than .10 BAC (NRS 202.257).
Casino carry
It is legal to carry openly or concealed inside a casino, on the Las Vegas Strip, or at the Fremont Street Experience. Most casinos will ask you to leave or disarm if they observe you carrying firearms, but it is not a crime unless you refuse to leave or comply (only trespassing).
School carry
Firearms are prohibited on K-12 school property, including child care facilities. This includes parking lots. Written permission from the principal is the only exemption, which is seldom granted (NRS 202.265).
Campus carry (colleges/universities)
Firearms are prohibited on college/university property, including in parking lots, except with written permission, which is seldom granted (NRS 202.265).
Car carry
It is legal to have a loaded handgun anywhere in your vehicle, including in the glove box, as long the weapon is not concealed on your body without a permit. Rifles and shotguns cannot have a round in the chamber (NRS 503.165).
Home carry
You cannot carry concealed without a permit at home or on your own private property. Concealed carry requires a permit anywhere in the state. Technically, a firearm, loaded or unloaded, carried in bag or case is illegal without a permit.
Where can I shoot?
Laws vary by county and city. Check your local ordinances. Click the map for a list of shooting spots near Las Vegas.
Gun Safety
1. Treat all guns as if they were loaded. 2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. 3. Never point at a gun at anything you are not willing to shoot. 4. Know your target and what lies beyond. 5. Keep weapons locked away from children.
I smoke marijuana. Is it legal for me to own/buy a gun?
No. Under federal law, you are an unlawful user of a controlled substance. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has upheld this rule. Marijuana in any form is illegal under federal law. Users of marijuana are prohibited persons. Checking 'no' on question 11(e) on the Form 4473 would be a lie if you use marijuana. See this ATF letter on the topic.
Blue cards
Effective June 2, 2016, Clark County's handgun registration system, 'blue cards' was eliminated by changes to state law. Blue cards are not required nor issued. You do not have to keep your blue cards. There is no gun registration in Nevada at all. All records have been destroyed. Ballot Question 1 did not create registration.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 15:53:29
I'm back!
2017/10/02 15:51:31
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
Xenomancers wrote: That seems unlikely. pretty hard to shoot straight with that kind of mechanism - were talking about 300-400 yard shooting here.
FWIW on google maps it is exactly 400 yards / 377 meters. While bumpfire is indeed inaccurate I'm not sure what level of accuracy is required to hit an enormous mass of people.
The target if you can call it that was a blob of people probably at least 200 yards wide anyway. "In the general direction" was enough.
Well - from a standard battle rifle firing in full auto is already "in the general direction" in terms of accuracy. A bumbfire mechanism would be worse than that. Not saying it couldn't have worked but for someone that planned this as much as the shooter did - I'd think he would use something more reliable.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2017/10/02 15:57:05
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
This guy planned it so that he would cause confusion and disorient people making harder to find him.
It's why the 'good guy with a gun would have stopped that' is a myth.
Do you have enough self control to keep your biased personal opinion out of this, at least for a little while. Don't worry, plenty of gun bashing will take place shortly for you to jump in on.
2017/10/02 16:03:45
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
skyth wrote: Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...
Just spit balling here.
I highly doubt any concert would allow attendees to carry firearms, regardless of genre or any perceived political leanings.
Right. From my understanding concert goers were not allowed to carry guns in with them.
Even if someone managed to sneak a gun in to the concert, it would probably be a hand gun. There would have been no way someone with a handgun would have been able to hit from that distance away and that high up while in a sea of panicked people.
This guy planned it so that he would cause confusion and disorient people making harder to find him.
Edit: Friend passed along to me when I said concert goers might not have been able to have firearms in the concert.
http://www.nevadacarry.org/
Spoiler:
Weapon laws (NRS Ch. 202)
Concealed weapon permits (CCW) are-shall issue and open carry is legal without a permit. Nevada does not ban 'assault weapons' and there is no magazine capacity limit. There are no purchase permits, gun registration, or gun-owner licensing. Blue cards are no longer required. There is no waiting period mandated for firearm purchases and private gun sales are okay. Local gun laws are prohibited. You do not have to "register" a gun to someone else.
Government Buildings
You cannot carry in the secure area of airports (past TSA checkpoints) and concealed carry only is prohibited in public buildings where 'no guns' signs are posted or metal detectors are present at each public entrance. (NRS 202.3673). Open carry is not regulated in any non-school public building.
No guns signs
Signs do not have the force of law on private property. In public buildings, only concealed carry is banned where 'no guns' signs are posted or metal detectors are present at each public entrance (NRS 202.3673).
Bar carry
It is legal to carry concealed or openly in a bar or restaurant, even while consuming alcohol. One cannot possess a firearm if their blood alcohol content is more than .10 BAC (NRS 202.257).
Casino carry
It is legal to carry openly or concealed inside a casino, on the Las Vegas Strip, or at the Fremont Street Experience. Most casinos will ask you to leave or disarm if they observe you carrying firearms, but it is not a crime unless you refuse to leave or comply (only trespassing).
School carry
Firearms are prohibited on K-12 school property, including child care facilities. This includes parking lots. Written permission from the principal is the only exemption, which is seldom granted (NRS 202.265).
Campus carry (colleges/universities)
Firearms are prohibited on college/university property, including in parking lots, except with written permission, which is seldom granted (NRS 202.265).
Car carry
It is legal to have a loaded handgun anywhere in your vehicle, including in the glove box, as long the weapon is not concealed on your body without a permit. Rifles and shotguns cannot have a round in the chamber (NRS 503.165).
Home carry
You cannot carry concealed without a permit at home or on your own private property. Concealed carry requires a permit anywhere in the state. Technically, a firearm, loaded or unloaded, carried in bag or case is illegal without a permit.
Where can I shoot?
Laws vary by county and city. Check your local ordinances. Click the map for a list of shooting spots near Las Vegas.
Gun Safety
1. Treat all guns as if they were loaded. 2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. 3. Never point at a gun at anything you are not willing to shoot. 4. Know your target and what lies beyond. 5. Keep weapons locked away from children.
I smoke marijuana. Is it legal for me to own/buy a gun?
No. Under federal law, you are an unlawful user of a controlled substance. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has upheld this rule. Marijuana in any form is illegal under federal law. Users of marijuana are prohibited persons. Checking 'no' on question 11(e) on the Form 4473 would be a lie if you use marijuana. See this ATF letter on the topic.
Blue cards
Effective June 2, 2016, Clark County's handgun registration system, 'blue cards' was eliminated by changes to state law. Blue cards are not required nor issued. You do not have to keep your blue cards. There is no gun registration in Nevada at all. All records have been destroyed. Ballot Question 1 did not create registration.
California will pass an extra three gun control laws just to be safe.
This guy planned it so that he would cause confusion and disorient people making harder to find him.
It's why the 'good guy with a gun would have stopped that' is a myth.
Do you have enough self control to keep your biased personal opinion out of this, at least for a little while. Don't worry, plenty of gun bashing will take place shortly for you to jump in on.
Not bashing guns. Just would-be Rambos that spout nonsense.
2017/10/02 16:25:57
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
This guy planned it so that he would cause confusion and disorient people making harder to find him.
It's why the 'good guy with a gun would have stopped that' is a myth.
Do you have enough self control to keep your biased personal opinion out of this, at least for a little while. Don't worry, plenty of gun bashing will take place shortly for you to jump in on.
What are we supposed to be talking about here? I'm not being flippant, it's an honest, actual question. Are we supposed to just spout mindless platitudes about "thoughts and prayers" because "it's too soon to politicize this tragedy"?
It turned out to be a old white guy, so we can't talk about radical islam or the culture of violence in black culture, and the heckler's veto has successfully destroyed any discussion of politics on this forum, so I'm a bit lost, to be honest, about where this is supposed to go except the usual pivot to talking about mental illness (which turns political) and gun control (which turns political) for 3 or 4 pages until the usual lock and repeat in 90 days.
Again, I am truly and honestly asking where this thread is supposed to be going. Is there some acceptable avenue I missed?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 16:44:37
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2017/10/02 16:28:47
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
Every time somebody slips on a banana skin, Islamic State claims responsibility for it, so I would not read too much into that claim.
An expert on the news was saying it was more likely due to a crisis event: his wife left him, or the taxman took 50,000 pounds off him etc etc, the kinda thing that would push somebody over the edge.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2017/10/02 16:29:15
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
This guy planned it so that he would cause confusion and disorient people making harder to find him.
It's why the 'good guy with a gun would have stopped that' is a myth.
Do you have enough self control to keep your biased personal opinion out of this, at least for a little while. Don't worry, plenty of gun bashing will take place shortly for you to jump in on.
Not bashing guns. Just would-be Rambos that spout nonsense.
It's not nonsense in most shooter situations. Most shootings are done at short range with pistols(but even when long arms are used they're usually still short ranged). This is really a freak occurrence in terms of how it was executed.
A good guy with a gun couldn't have stopped this very specific incident, it's true. Doesn't mean they don't stop other incidents(they do with good regularity).
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
skyth wrote: Country music concert would appeal to a more conservative bent which increases the chance of people having guns there. If they did, it did them jack and squat...
Just spit balling here.
I highly doubt any concert would allow attendees to carry firearms, regardless of genre or any perceived political leanings.
Right. From my understanding concert goers were not allowed to carry guns in with them.
Even if someone managed to sneak a gun in to the concert, it would probably be a hand gun. There would have been no way someone with a handgun would have been able to hit from that distance away and that high up while in a sea of panicked people.
I go to a lot of concerts at all kinds of different venues and will drive across states sometimes even for a show, and I've been in quite a few where they're obviously taking security seriously and would have found a razor blade if I had one, and I've been to a bunch where I probably could have walked in with a handgun in a pocket without getting noticed. I don't actually do either, but I'm mindful of how much security they're doing at a place, because I worry about the crowds getting rough. It's kind of a crapshoot.
I can't imagine any of them would have ever let someone just walk in with something like this though. Regardless of the setting, that's just asking for trouble.
This guy planned it so that he would cause confusion and disorient people making harder to find him.
It's why the 'good guy with a gun would have stopped that' is a myth.
Do you have enough self control to keep your biased personal opinion out of this, at least for a little while. Don't worry, plenty of gun bashing will take place shortly for you to jump in on.
Not bashing guns. Just would-be Rambos that spout nonsense.
But nobody was saying anything about Rambo action. You were just slipping in a anti-gun jab. As far as what to talk about, I would think the incident. Give platitudes if it makes you feel better. I'm just hoping I can get some more info on what happened before this turns into another gun debate. That's all.
2017/10/02 16:50:56
Subject: Re:Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
The only piece of good news to come of this is that this massacre had nothing to do with any Muslim affiliated individual with everything going on.
A sad event.
I assume like a lot of these lone wolf killers they'll discover a manifesto of sorts? Has there been any info on his political or deranged insanity message?
This guy planned it so that he would cause confusion and disorient people making harder to find him.
It's why the 'good guy with a gun would have stopped that' is a myth.
Do you have enough self control to keep your biased personal opinion out of this, at least for a little while. Don't worry, plenty of gun bashing will take place shortly for you to jump in on.
Not bashing guns. Just would-be Rambos that spout nonsense.
To be fair if someone in a room adjacent to the shooter was armed and heard the gunshots they would have been the best chance at preventing this from getting as bad as it did. It took the police 20 minutes to find this guy. That's not what I am advocating here - I'm just saying it would have been the best chance at stopping this if someone was in the right place at the right time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stevefamine wrote: The only piece of good news to come of this is that this massacre had nothing to do with any Muslim affiliated individual with everything going on.
A sad event.
I assume like a lot of these lone wolf killers they'll discover a manifesto of sorts? Has there been any info on his political or deranged insanity message?
How is that good news? I'd much rather this be a known terrorist affiliate than just - random 64 year old dude decided to go on a rampage. Something can be done about one of those things - the other? The other is just - these things happen - lets move on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/02 16:55:14
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2017/10/02 16:56:35
Subject: Active Shooter in Las Vegas Attacks Country Music Festival with Automatic Weapon
