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The Star Wars film that really needs to be made is Rian Johnson Strikes Back. Think "The Late Show" docudrama, but about Johnson, Abrams, Kennedy, et al..

JJ is the director who likes to fill his movies with mystery boxes. He doesn't care what's inside them.

RJ is the guy who remembers Lost and would rather burn the boxes to the ground than open them like some butt monkey. JJ Leno's casual shallowness disgusts him, but RJ Letterman prefers to poke at the audience rather than satiate them.

Who will win? Who cares! Think of the drama.

Christopher Guest should do a movie like that, Bob.

Parker Posey as Kathleen Kennedy?

 Manchu wrote:
Christopher Guest should do a movie like that, Bob.

Parker Posey as Kathleen Kennedy?

I would watch the heck out of that.

Who will Eugene Levy and Larry Miller play?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Galef wrote:
You are all smart enough to know that if Disney didn't start with Skywalker saga films, half of the internet would explode with nerd rage. So while creating new stories is surely on the horizon, Disney was smart to start with something familiar.

Unfortunately, I feel we live in a time that there is no possible outcome that would appease the vast majority of fans. Opinions will always be divided and the vocal minority will always be the loudest.

Citation needed.

And citation needed.

Just to touch back on this again, but didn't LFL release some media set during the Old Republic that had nothing to do with the Skywalkers? How was that received? Hated more than the prequels, was it?

Get Larry Miller in a wig and beard to be George Lucas. Imagine him doing lines about "white slavers." Eugene Levy could play an increasingly confused and oppressed Mark Hamill getting bullied by Parker Posey's Kennedy. Michael McKean could have a cameo as Rick McCallum.

Oh man. The thought of Larry Miller justifying Howard the Duck is giving me palpitations.

 kronk wrote:

Spoiler:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Galef wrote:
The funny thing is, literally EVERYONE I have talked to in person loved the film.
Everyone they have talked to in person also liked it, so all the "hate" is an internet phenomenon.

I will say, if this was supposed to be the finale in the trilogy, I'd be on board with most of the complaints. But this is the middle part, so any plot holes are either:
A) going to be filled in by IX
B) easy to explain away with logic and/or suspension of disbelief or
C) if not A or B going to make me agree with most complaints

With SW movies coming out so fast and SW content being covered by books, shows, movies and other media, the need to make concise, stand-alone movies is not as necessary as it was 20+ years ago. It would be nice, but there seems to be a fan-driven need to keep pumping out content (whether this is a truth or just a perception is another issue). Disney does not have to give up all the answers in a single film (but hopefully will by the finale)

-

Counter anecdote: Everyone I've talked to in real life varies from "Dislike" to "Hate".

a) People said that about The Force Awakens (Wait for the next one, that will explain how Rey isn't a Marry Sue...). I see no evidence that there is any coherent plan to give me confidence in Episode 9.
b) Logic seems to be where the issues arise. All I've heard is cries to suspend disbelief. Given that this movie decided to suddenly apply real-word physics to the hyperdrive, I'd say that is wanting to have your cake and eat it too.


Here's the thing. If the movies are going to become nothing but plot hooks for other media, I don't see a need to pay for the movies.

Ha! And people in my group are split. I'm probably middle of the road. Enjoyed it, but there are flaws. I have one person who absolutely loves EVERYTHING star wars. You could slap a star wars sticker on a McDonald's burger and it's the most awesome burger ever. We also have a huge Star Wars fan who is Angry about it. Capital A intentional. Specifically them turning Luke into a pussy. It's worse than all of the prequels to him.

Like Manchu, I think that Galef calling the hate an internet phenomenon just because his group loved it is absolutely laughable. That's not how things work, but feel free to hand-wave it away.

Like wise a split group. Though we tend to be "loved it", "We liked it, but have reservations." and "What the hell did I just watch?"

I was the latter, but I think some of that comes down to having to deal with the cheering and laughing the whole movie at stuff I thought was out right stupid. It just left me asking if I was watching a different movie. From there I thought about it, and thought that maybe despite the things I liked, I liked alot of it way less. Then I got to thinking it was alright, but a jumbled mess of pointless plots and stupid humor. I saw it again to wrap my head around it, turns out it was a mix.

I liked it enough, mostly Reylo, some of the acting and the visuals. But it was a jumbled mess of pointless character, pointless plot points and stupid humor. Visuals and some of the acting/characters being good isnt enough. But it will do for me in the long run. I am how ever not overly excited for IX or RJ's Trilogy.

I guess I liked that it opened up them to try more, but who knows.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

a) People said that about The Force Awakens (Wait for the next one, that will explain how Rey isn't a Marry Sue...). I see no evidence that there is any coherent plan to give me confidence in Episode 9.

OTOH there was no coherent plan for the original trilogy either. Emperor wasn't originally envisioned as big bad Force user, and it sure wasn't the plan to have Leia, Luke and Darth Vader all related.
According to Wikipedia they even planned Luke becoming Darth Vader almost to the end!

Backfire wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

a) People said that about The Force Awakens (Wait for the next one, that will explain how Rey isn't a Marry Sue...). I see no evidence that there is any coherent plan to give me confidence in Episode 9.

OTOH there was no coherent plan for the original trilogy either. Emperor wasn't originally envisioned as big bad Force user, and it sure wasn't the plan to have Leia, Luke and Darth Vader all related.
According to Wikipedia they even planned Luke becoming Darth Vader almost to the end!

That's because there weren't plans to release more films from the off. Star Wars didn't become a new hope until a year or 2 after it was released.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Personally, I stopped buying Star Wars product regularly when the prequels killed my enthusiasm. TFA cemented Star Wars as a done setting where anything goes if it gets us a shiny trailer. These movies have drastically reduced my spending on the IP. I know others who feel the same way. There are only so many crappy movies an IP can survive.

Well...Transformers have proven that IF the IP is strong enough it can survive 5 awful movies by Michael Bay and still thrive. Now, I don't want Disney to test that one with Star Wars though.

Backfire wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

a) People said that about The Force Awakens (Wait for the next one, that will explain how Rey isn't a Marry Sue...). I see no evidence that there is any coherent plan to give me confidence in Episode 9.

OTOH there was no coherent plan for the original trilogy either.

Well, yeah. George had people (particularly Hollywood studio types) insisting the original film was a terrible idea that was simply going to fail. It was a risk, so obviously wasn't planned as a trilogy. And time and money constraints meant he was just finishing the screenplay when filming started, and then sections had to be redone to get the studio to sign off on it.

By contrast, these were intentionally packaged as a trilogy. While it turns out the two directors are doing their own thing, everyone and their dog knew these would be three connected films..

I mostly enjoyed the movie probably because after TFA my expectations were really low. But the thing that really got me was the fleet actions. I get that SW is space opera where the battles will always fail to reach my naval battle fanboy dreams but when even my wife goes WTH at the stupidity of the tactics of the movie.

Ofc that might be the reason why Thrawn was such a genius, everybody else in the galaxy barely knows how to command a fleet further than "close with the bad guys and shoot" school of tactics, except probably Ackbar that learned something about crossing the T in naval school.

M.

Voss wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

a) People said that about The Force Awakens (Wait for the next one, that will explain how Rey isn't a Marry Sue...). I see no evidence that there is any coherent plan to give me confidence in Episode 9.

OTOH there was no coherent plan for the original trilogy either.

Well, yeah. George had people (particularly Hollywood studio types) insisting the original film was a terrible idea that was simply going to fail. It was a risk, so obviously wasn't planned as a trilogy. And time and money constraints meant he was just finishing the screenplay when filming started, and then sections had to be redone to get the studio to sign off on it.

By contrast, these were intentionally packaged as a trilogy. While it turns out the two directors are doing their own thing, everyone and their dog knew these would be three connected films..

People come up with a nice false equivalence and you ruin it. Happy?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Spoiler:

did Luke die a virgin?

No.

Voss wrote:

According to... what? Certainly not the films, which I'm 99% certain never even mention KDY.

It doesn't really matter if KDY is specifically named, what matters is that the construction of Star Destroyers had been normalized over the course of ~30 years.

Voss wrote:

Regardless, someone should be asking who they're selling all these ships to. Buying battleships is even more glaringly obvious than buying fighters and bombers.

They should, but The Empire wasn't noted for it's bookkeeping.

Longer than 30 years right? Varieties of SDs date from the Clone Wars I thought.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Spoiler:

did Luke die a virgin?

No.

Spoiler:

Yoda Force feths him, then blows up the Jedi Temple.

Canonically speaking...

Guys, I actually liked The Last Jedi. I really did. But as my friend pointed out, I'm afraid that we're just going to have to accept the fact that...Simpsons did it.






The Bacta suit, Ray, Snoke, the tree? Simpsons did it.

Considering the Simpsons has aired 231 hours of footage (not counting commercials), I would say there isn't much they haven't done.

 dogma wrote:

Voss wrote:

According to... what? Certainly not the films, which I'm 99% certain never even mention KDY.

It doesn't really matter if KDY is specifically named, what matters is that the construction of Star Destroyers had been normalized over the course of ~30 years.

According to... what? KDY specifically isn't the point. Whoever's making them, there still hasn't been a buyer for the last 20, unless that one Republic capital system that got blowed up was also absolutely packed with SDs, that were also pinpoint targeted like the planets were from however many light years away.

Regardless, someone should be asking who they're selling all these ships to. Buying battleships is even more glaringly obvious than buying fighters and bombers.

They should, but The Empire wasn't noted for it's bookkeeping.

What's the Empire got to do with it? Its been gone for 20 odd years, and the FO doesn't arise until after its gone. Not sure why you think the Republic wouldn't ask questions about who those Star Destroyers were going to, since they weren't buying them, as evidenced by the lack of a Republic fleet. [Or, they were buying them and they got blown up]. Either way, manufacturing a 'limitless' fleet for somebody else doesn't work with the TFA narrative that the Republic doesn't believe someone threatening is out there. Because anyone massing Star Destroyers is a threat, especially to a Galactic Republic with one single tiny defense fleet.

Voss wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

a) People said that about The Force Awakens (Wait for the next one, that will explain how Rey isn't a Marry Sue...). I see no evidence that there is any coherent plan to give me confidence in Episode 9.

OTOH there was no coherent plan for the original trilogy either.

Well, yeah. George had people (particularly Hollywood studio types) insisting the original film was a terrible idea that was simply going to fail. It was a risk, so obviously wasn't planned as a trilogy. And time and money constraints meant he was just finishing the screenplay when filming started, and then sections had to be redone to get the studio to sign off on it.

By contrast, these were intentionally packaged as a trilogy. While it turns out the two directors are doing their own thing, everyone and their dog knew these would be three connected films..

The point is rather that having a coherent master plan for the whole trilogy is not a requirement for good end result (first trilogy), nor it is a guarantee for it (prequel trilogy).

 Manchu wrote:
Longer than 30 years right? Varieties of SDs date from the Clone Wars I thought.

Canon has the Clone Wars starting in 22 BBY, I added 4 to that and rounded up.

Voss wrote:

According to... what? KDY specifically isn't the point. Whoever's making them, there still hasn't been a buyer for the last 20, unless that one Republic capital system that got blowed up was also absolutely packed with SDs, that were also pinpoint targeted like the planets were from however many light years away.

There doesn't need to be buyer, they're Space Nazis that are loyal to the cause; they'll build what needs to be built. TFA lays that out very clearly.

 dogma wrote:


There doesn't need to be buyer, they're Space Nazis that are loyal to the cause; they'll build what needs to be built. TFA lays that out very clearly.

When? Who? What loyal Space Nazi starship construction crews? The kidnapped and brainwashed children? Did they build the dockyards too? Program the systems and work rare minerals and energy reactors?
At what point is this laid out 'clearly' or at all?

Also... what happened to KYD or other unspecified manufacturers making the ships? Why the sudden shift to magic crews of loyal space nazi child engineers?

Voss wrote:

When? Who? What loyal Space Nazi starship construction crews? The kidnapped and brainwashed children? Did they build the dockyards too? Program the systems and work rare minerals and energy reactors?
At what point is this laid out 'clearly' or at all?

It never is, but who cares about the difference between an Imperial II and Imperial I? Victory II and Victory I? The Resurgent and an Imperial II?

Voss wrote:

Also... what happened to KYD or other unspecified manufacturers making the ships? Why the sudden shift to magic crews of loyal space nazi child engineers?

There was no sudden shift. I explicitly stated how Star Destroyer manufacturers are Nazis.

I'm sure this is a fine movie is you suspend disbelief, don't ask any questions, blindly accept things are perfectly likely and reasonable to happen because they did happen and don't challenge those ascertations, and enjoy excellent cinematography and graphics.

For me, personally, the glaring stupidity demonstrated by many of the characters particularly General Hux and friends, but to a lesser degree the rebels, and even Luke Skywalker, really ruined what could have been a good film.

I don't like my cinema stories to hang on the premise that everyone is a moron, and the plot to only continue to work as long as everyone continues to be a moron, and or, massive co-incidences hang everything together.

There wasn't anything not Starwarsy about it, it was just very badly written and thought out, and given the budget, that's a huge same. So many of the things that are wrong with this film could have been fixed by having one person go through the script asking sensible questions like,

'Well what are the Star Destroyers doing here?'
'Why doesn't anyone do X?'
'Does this part really make sense?'
'What's this characters actual moviation to do this?'
'I can see what kind of scene you want to shoot here, but couldn't we have a better reason for this to happen?'

I'm perfectly fine to have situations where "coincidences = destiny" but that doesn't really work for most of them in TLJ.

The movie was mediocre just like EP I, II, III, VII and Rogue One but I actually liked the new Luke. IMHO the only interesting part in the movie, Kylo Ren is the silliest villain even seen and the good guys are all decent characters but none of them has the "shining".

I'm really thinking that a large part of the perceived problem is that none of us are kids anymore.

I mean, if you showed Star Wars to someone the same age as us who've never seen it before, will they give much the same feedback?

For me, Han and Chewie were childhood heroes. But in terms of great cinematic characters? Probably on there, but not terribly high up.

The OT comprised our childhood. The new stuff doesn't. We're seeing it through tired eyes - eyes that've watched a great many films since we were kids.

I did not like it. Too many plot holes and unanswered questions.

If luke hides because of shame and hopelessness, why did he leave a map inside r2d2 with a puzzle mystery to solve it? Seems so elborate for no reason...

Who is snoke and what was his purpose?

The premise lf the story, that the fleet of star destroyers can't reach the rebel mothership was questionable. They can't cover their tie fighter? What does that even mean? Surely tie fighters are expendable, and only three of them was currently wrecking the rebels with no issue. Could the star destroers not spread out and surround the rebels?

What is the first order and how do they rule? How do they get any resources and no resistance? Why is the rebel alliance so small?

The casino planet was pointless.

To me ep 4-6 was excellent because the setting, story and characters. Prequels was good because how they built on those. A force awakens was promising but the last jedi is unsatisfying in all the aspects i wanted it to perform. It just gaks on the classics and even it's modern predecessor. Kill of all giod characters for no reason. General Ackbar died of screen. Why?!

Yeah I must say the premise of the space battle made no sense.

* Why can't the First Order just hyperspace more ships in to block their escape since they evidently have the fuel?

* Why don't they deploy the thousands of tie fighters that must be on those Star Destroyers? The Rebels had all their fighter escorts and if the rebels had point defense weapons they couldn't stop three of them.

* We already saw that bombers can destroy even the largest capital ships earlier in the movie. Why can't the Empire deploy its own bombers?

* Why does the Dreadnought fire at the base which isn't going anywhere first and then shoot the Cruiser which is able to move?

* Why does the Dreadnought only have a handful of turbo lasers and why are they so exposed when every other Star Destroyer has them within the ship in armored batteries?

* Why did the other Star Destroyers not move in to protect the Dreadnought?

* If you saw Rogue One, why has the Resistance stopped using super fast Y Wings with Ion bombs that can be quickly deployed and instead uses incredibly slow and vulnerable bombers.

* Why do bombs drop in space? Why are they dropping bombs instead of using guided missiles they have had since the OT?

* Why didn't the shields stop the Tie fighters destroying the bridge? They were clearly further back than the turbolaser bolts were hitting. I mean why have the bridge so exposed if all you have to do is have 2 tie fighters fly up and shoot it? In Return of Jedi they say that the Super Star Destroyer has lost its defensive shields before the A Wing slams into its bridge. So clearly they would have to have disabled the shields.

* It has never been established that star wars ships only have enough fuel for one hyperspace jump. Indeed the opposite insinuation is made. Given that they were being tracked I am not sure why a Battlestar Galactica situation wouldn't have worked and had the same result.

* Why didn't the Tie fighters use Ion weapons, like we saw in Rogue One, to disable the Resistance ships?

* Why is the Resistance considered and built up as a major galactic faction when it only has three ships? Why does the FO even consider this a big threat? I mean in Rebels, just the rebel cell at Lothal has a much bigger fleet by the later series.

* Since every X Wing has a hyperdrive why doesn't the Resistance fleet split up in every direction?

So it actually contradicts how ship combat has been depicted even in Disney canon material like Rogue One and Rebels.