New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)

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**Togusa**

Lance845 wrote:
Tau have a 30" rapid fire 1 str 5 dmg 1
Bolters are 24" rapid fire 1 str 4 dmg 1
Fleshborers are 12" assault 1 str 4 dmg 1
Lasguns are 24 rapid fire 1 str 3 dmg 1
Shoota are 18" assault 2 str 4 dmg 1

Lasguns are weaker, come on cheaper platforms and those platforms die a lot faster

Shootas and fleshborers loose some to a lot on range to gain assault with shootas getting an extra shot to have categorically worse chance to hit.

Tau are clearly the best but come on less durable platforms with a 4+ BS, no chances for any of the special or heavy weapons, and they crumple instantly in melee.

Across the board. Those guns on their platforms seem balanced to me. You have space marines with good (for infantry) toughness and (for anyone) saves running around with a 0 point rapid fire gun with a range that is second only to the tau and the higher end of the str spectrum for free infantry guns that tips them over the critical point of wounding on 3+ against GEQ and 4+ against MEQ and only wounding on a 6 against T8+.

I honestly believe what SM players are seeing is a hold over from 7th. Your used to having ap6 from 7th meaning all those gribbly hordes lost all their saves. But str 4 over 3 is a big deal. And it's even bigger on a 3+ BS platform with a 3+ save that can fair decently enough in melee whether geared for it or not.

Any buff to a bolter would be insanity.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

On topic, loving these previews. Strategems are pretty damn fluffy and neato as a whole.

My only concern is Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors being a hard counter to that one Hive Fleet. It makes the two former attractive, but I dunno. Just wish the Hive Fleet had a differing bonus of some kind.

Its only a hard counter to the adaptation. Jormungdr's rumored stratagem is going to make for some very diverse and incredible tactics on the table. I wouldn't even care if I lost my cover fighting them with what I intend to pull off with the stratagem.

I'm pretty sure you're just supposed to buy Primaris since they have a -1 bolter. Honestly, as someone who plays many different factions, I wish they'd just squatted old marines and re-released the line as the primaris. Because doing it the way they have, makes marines as a whole seem really lack-luster.

**str00dles1**

no longer forced to use the stupid tail, its just an extra attack now. Thank goodness. Was so stupid before

**Eihnlazer**

On the flip side of that you cant trade in your carnifex's base attacks for 4D3 thresher tail attacks anymore.

It was actually quite good against tau.

**Jin**

Hrm. So running some numbers, against T8/3+ (and 2+), the Crush Claws run a _slight_ advantage in dmg per turn over 2x ScyTals....but definitely is weaker when not charging.

**Dynas**

thoughts on this.

Dont need spine banks for shooting or spore cist b/c of Malantrhope
Monsterous talons
Bone mace
Monsterous claws for AP and vehicles
with kraken fleet, breakoff and recharge every turn
Tusk +1 atack when charge
Living battering ram (4+ wound, +1 WS on charge)
Near OOE another +1 to hit in fight; so now hitting on 2+ &
reroll 1's (claws hit on 3+ reroll 1's)
Toxin sacs and AG (6+ is plus 1 damage, and +1 to charge)

67+24+14+2+5+4 =114

Thats not counting the tusk which if comparable to Bio Plasma which is 11 points. we are looking at about 125 ish.

5 S6 attacks hitting on 2+ with reroll of 1's; 6's deal +1 dmg

OR use claws 5 S12 -3 AP 3 dmg attacks that hit on 3+ reroll 1's; 6's deal +1 dmg
plus a chance for 4+ mortal wound.

Those claws have a potential for 20 wounds on a 3+ vs T7. Bye bye Razorbacks.

And with the Fleet you can recharge and do this every turn.

**Neronoxx**

Eihnlazer wrote:
On the flip side of that you cant trade in your carnifex's base attacks for 4D3 thresher tail attacks anymore.

It was actually quite good against tau.

Like a freaking beaver

**changemod**

Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?

**Kanluwen**

changemod wrote:
Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?

I feel like it's worth mentioning that the screencap of the tusks, bone mace, etc is seemingly separate to the main Carnifex dataslate part...so there might be nothing stopping a Screamer Killer from taking Tusks and a Bone Mace.

**Hulksmash**

Why take anything other than a dakka fex that has 24 shots, 2+ save, -1 to hit, and bs3+ for all of 110pts?

**changemod**

Kanluwen wrote:
changemod wrote:
Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?

I feel like it's worth mentioning that the screencap of the tusks, bone mace, etc is seemingly separate to the main Carnifex dataslate part...so there might be nothing stopping a Screamer Killer from taking Tusks and a Bone Mace.

We saw the screamer killer datasheet in this month's white dwarf, it only has a few options.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hulksmash wrote:
Why take anything other than a dakka fex that has 24 shots, 2+ save, -1 to hit, and bs3+ for all of 110pts?

Wanting it to fill an assault role, I would imagine.

That's a strong build though, just a shame it lacks any passive ap and the thresher scythe can only be used for one attack.

**Niiai**

Hulksmash wrote:
Why take anything other than a dakka fex that has 24 shots, 2+ save, -1 to hit, and bs3+ for all of 110pts?

What's the points on the guns?

What guns are they? The 18" Power 6?
I think 24" power 7 is worth considering.

However, the heavy venom cannon 1d3 36" S8(or was it 9?) AP2 3 damage sounds nice.

**changemod**

Given the venom canon is a worse lascanon in all respects other than that it's not heavy, I would hope it has a point drop to be worth taking.

Still, I can imagine myself taking one just for cool factor, I guess.

**Mr_Rose**

changemod wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
changemod wrote:
Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?

I feel like it's worth mentioning that the screencap of the tusks, bone mace, etc is seemingly separate to the main Carnifex dataslate part...so there might be nothing stopping a Screamer Killer from taking Tusks and a Bone Mace.

We saw the screamer killer datasheet in this month's white dwarf, it only has a few options.

It also has the unique Bio-plasmic Scream weapon, which has better range, potential shots, and AP than the base Bio-plasma, as well as a fear aura that simply isn’t available to other carnifexes in any form.

**Tyran**

changemod wrote:
Given the venom canon is a worse lascanon in all respects other than that it's not heavy, I would hope it has a point drop to be worth taking.

Still, I can imagine myself taking one just for cool factor, I guess.

The venom cannon is a better missile launcher, and everyone already takes missile launchers. It is definitely worth taking.

**changemod**

Mr_Rose wrote:
changemod wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
changemod wrote:
Hmm... Why take a screamer killer when you can take a regular 'fex with tusks and a bone mace instead?

I feel like it's worth mentioning that the screencap of the tusks, bone mace, etc is seemingly separate to the main Carnifex dataslate part...so there might be nothing stopping a Screamer Killer from taking Tusks and a Bone Mace.

We saw the screamer killer datasheet in this month's white dwarf, it only has a few options.

It also has the unique Bio-plasmic Scream weapon, which has better range, potential shots, and AP than the base Bio-plasma, as well as a fear aura that simply isn’t available to other carnifexes in any form.

Yeah, but d6 shots at BS4 isn't all that strong an incentive over more attacks. *shrug*

**Niiai**

I just like the 36" range. I am planing on having 6 hive guards, 1 tyranofex with big canno, and 2 or 3 carnifexes. I am planing on putting plasma on those carbifexes to have long range support from round 1. 24 and 18 is cool and all, but then I start walking into razorback country.

**Jin**

changemod wrote:
Yeah, but d6 shots at BS4 isn't all that strong an incentive over more attacks. *shrug*

Yeah, but if you're taking the HVC, you're also probably going to take the Enhanced Senses to give him BS3

**Luke_Prowler**

Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP

**Togusa**

So I was placing an order for some stuff, and I noticed that if you add the Hive Tyrant to your cart, it is listed as "Made to Order" and will take 35 days to ship.

I found this to be highly confusing, and I wondered if anyone knows if this was a mistake, or if possibly this might have been a slip up pointing to a new kit in the future?

**Sim-Life**

It'll just be a reboxing.

**Arachnofiend**

Luke_Prowler wrote:
Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP

It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.

**Togusa**

Lance845 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Dynas wrote:
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.

Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.

To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.

I wanted to draw some attention to this comment for a second. Speaking as someone who loves his Swarmy, you are very correct. I've played over 50 games since 8th dropped with my Swarmy, and he goes down too fast. It has been awful to watch him run down the field, only to have 6/10 times him die before ever reaching a viable charging target. For a 300 point investment, I'm so happy Swarmy now has this ability!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Luke_Prowler wrote:
Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP

It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.

Dunno.

Even if I’ve got a full unit of 40 Gaunts, and lose them all in a single round of combat from having their heads kicked in (as opposed to Battleshock), I’m only inflicting an average of 6 or 7 Wounds, depending on whether you round up or down.

It’s useful, sure. But hardly game or deal breaking. I mean, I’ve still lost 40 Gaunts to pull that off.

**gameandwatch**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Luke_Prowler wrote:
Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP

It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.

Dunno.

Even if I’ve got a full unit of 40 Gaunts, and lose them all in a single round of combat from having their heads kicked in (as opposed to Battleshock), I’m only inflicting an average of 6 or 7 Wounds, depending on whether you round up or down.

It’s useful, sure. But hardly game or deal breaking. I mean, I’ve still lost 40 Gaunts to pull that off.

I mean, is this any worse than auto exploding vehicles?

**Niiai**

Togusa wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Dynas wrote:
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.

Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.

To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.

I wanted to draw some attention to this comment for a second. Speaking as someone who loves his Swarmy, you are very correct. I've played over 50 games since 8th dropped with my Swarmy, and he goes down like [MOD EDIT - There has to be a better way to express that. - Alpharius]. It has been awful to watch him run down the field, only to have 6/10 times him die before ever reaching a viable charging target. For a 300 point investment, I'm so happy Swarmy now has this ability!

I am confused. Can we make the swarmlord more survivable?

**Arachnofiend**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Luke_Prowler wrote:
Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP

It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.

Dunno.

Even if I’ve got a full unit of 40 Gaunts, and lose them all in a single round of combat from having their heads kicked in (as opposed to Battleshock), I’m only inflicting an average of 6 or 7 Wounds, depending on whether you round up or down.

It’s useful, sure. But hardly game or deal breaking. I mean, I’ve still lost 40 Gaunts to pull that off.

I somehow managed to completely pass over the "roll of a 6" part.

It's still pretty effective for the cost I think but not as broken as I originally thought lol.

**Togusa**

Niiai wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Dynas wrote:
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.

Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.

To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.

I wanted to draw some attention to this comment for a second. Speaking as someone who loves his Swarmy, you are very correct. I've played over 50 games since 8th dropped with my Swarmy, and he goes down like [MOD EDIT - There has to be a better way to express that. - Alpharius]. It has been awful to watch him run down the field, only to have 6/10 times him die before ever reaching a viable charging target. For a 300 point investment, I'm so happy Swarmy now has this ability!

I am confused. Can we make the swarmlord more survivable?

it is by its base now, because it's invuln went to a 4++ and it gained t7.

**adamsouza**

I need to decide to use it BEFORE you cause any casualties, spend the CP, and then it only inflicts mortal wounds on a roll of 6.

This does not need to be toned down.

**Eihnlazer**

As for swarmy, you could still give him the one relic that gives him a random stat every turn (ymgarl thing) since you don't trade it out for anything and hope he rolls toughness. T8 on a 4++ with 5+ fnp (catalyst) is hard to take out.

**Kanluwen**

Eihnlazer wrote:
As for swarmy, you could still give him the one relic that gives him a random stat every turn (ymgarl thing) since you don't trade it out for anything and hope he rolls toughness. T8 on a 4++ with 5+ fnp (catalyst) is hard to take out.

Named characters can't take Relics anywhere else, so I would be super annoyed if Swarmlord was able to take one.