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Andykp wrote:

Even if you are happy to play using the emperor you have to admit that it is a problem that they are wheeling out such characters already.

Not really. Model releases aren't about power escalation in licensed products; they're about notoriety. The Emperor is usually a baseline character for the Empire. He was one of the first three playable heroes in Battlefront for the same reason. They'll get most of the OT content out first, then move into EU territory. Pretty much every Star Wars game does something similar.

 Vertrucio wrote:
There's space wizards fighting with laser swords.

This argument misses the point of suspension of disbelief. SOD is when the reader accepts the premise or setting of a story. It does not and should not apply to the more human elements, such as motivation, actions and reactions, and appropriate social interactions. SOD means space wizards with laser swords are not a problem, but dumb wizards who use laser swords ineptly to advance the plot is a problem. The Emperor of a galactic empire getting into a skirmish with snow troopers and rainforest troopers on some backwoods desert system is a problem.

I think it’s funny that trolls come to this forum to talk trash and waste time. No one care if you play this game. If you are to stuiped to understand that the most seen and popular stuff from the OT come first go away or grow up. In 800 points you can bring more then just Han and a snow speeder or Palp and 5 troopers. If you want to talk trash fine. How about you use real examples from the game as played. Or just walk away from the tread and let people talk about a game they are interested in. So let’s get back to a constructive conversation about the game, it’s units and upcoming releases.

God forbid people having differing opinions, am I right?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
There's space wizards fighting with laser swords.

This argument misses the point of suspension of disbelief. SOD is when the reader accepts the premise or setting of a story. It does not and should not apply to the more human elements, such as motivation, actions and reactions, and appropriate social interactions. SOD means space wizards with laser swords are not a problem, but dumb wizards who use laser swords ineptly to advance the plot is a problem. The Emperor of a galactic empire getting into a skirmish with snow troopers and rainforest troopers on some backwoods desert system is a problem.

Dr. Doom knows you always need plausible deniability that it was just a Doombot that got his ass kicked by Squirrel Girl or had an epic meltdown in the drivethru.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I think I'm out. It's not that I dislike the gameplay (far from it, I like it very much), but it just feels like a Warcraft 2 Star Wars mod. It feels like a Star Wars skin wrapped around a different game. You've got the Emperor, Imperial Guards, Boba Fett, and Snowtroopers fighting against Jedi Luke, Fleet Troopers, and Endor rebels. At not point in any of the Star Wars movies did this scenario happen, nor could it have happened. There's not even a fantasy "What if" scenario in which such a thing was possible, since these game pieces fundamentally are at odds with their function in the Star Wars universe.

In complete honesty, if they had made Legion about the prequels, it would all fit together beautifully, and be a stellar example of how to build a Star Wars IP miniature game. Because of the prequels, the Clone Wars, and even Rebels, almost every character was on a battlefield at one point or another, and large epic battles were commonplace - but they chose to make it about characters that literally would never and could never be seen together on a battlefield. Maybe they'll announce some Clone Wars factions at Gen Con...

The weird thing is, I really loved the Star Wars CCG from Decipher, and you could do basically the same random things there. There was once a battle between Grand Moff Tarkin and Aunt Beru in the Death Star trash compactor that was fairly epic. I can't quite put my finger on why this is, but I think that it might be because the CCG was character based, rather than army based.

Clone Wars and I'm in
But until then I'm content seeing how Legion grows up and fills out its factions from the sidelines. Palpatine is definitely an unexpected twist

- Salvage

 griffen127 wrote:
I think it’s funny that trolls come to this forum to talk trash and waste time. No one care if you play this game. If you are to stuiped to understand that the most seen and popular stuff from the OT come first go away or grow up. In 800 points you can bring more then just Han and a snow speeder or Palp and 5 troopers. If you want to talk trash fine. How about you use real examples from the game as played. Or just walk away from the tread and let people talk about a game they are interested in. So let’s get back to a constructive conversation about the game, it’s units and upcoming releases.

So this is only a forum for people who like the game. I love star wars and love the models released for this game and hear good things about gameplay, I came here because it had news of releases. I commented on them. Sorry if you don’t like my comments but they are as valid as anyone’s. I made constructive criticism of the release and didn’t insult anyone or say they shouldn’t play. U need to chill, and if all the geeks out there grew up star wars based anything would be in trouble.

Andykp wrote:

And what is supposed to happen if you’re playing a game and Han kills the emperor or some such nonsense?

You tell Fox, and they re-write RotJ.


Or it might not actually matter. Think of it as a 'what-if' scenario. Or imagine that it wasn't actually the Emperor, but was a sneaky stand-in in a hood. Or he wasn't actually killed, just taken out of action, or chose to make it appear that he had been killed.

It's a game setting. It doesn't have to follow the story-line of the existing fiction, it just has to give you the opportunity to fight battles within that universe.

 insaniak wrote:

Andykp wrote:

And what is supposed to happen if you’re playing a game and Han kills the emperor or some such nonsense?

You tell Fox, and they re-write RotJ.


Or it might not actually matter. Think of it as a 'what-if' scenario. Or imagine that it wasn't actually the Emperor, but was a sneaky stand-in in a hood. Or he wasn't actually killed, just taken out of action, or chose to make it appear that he had been killed.

It's a game setting. It doesn't have to follow the story-line of the existing fiction, it just has to give you the opportunity to fight battles within that universe.

And that’s beyond my suspension of disbelief levels unfortunately. Because I love the idea behind this game. Does anyone know if it works without “special characters”. Can you play just using generic troopers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I add I don’t play competitively just casual with like minded types.

I'm getting a distinct "Wrong kind of fun" vibe from this thread...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm getting a distinct "Wrong kind of fun" vibe from this thread...

I’ve not said that. And no one said it to me. It’s clear some people like games filled with known characters, some 40k players love them but the game works without them. X wing did well with all its characters being great and the like, the walking dead skirmish game too does well. All I’m asking is if it works without them because I don’t like that. People play however they like. Seems an even split between those who think the emperor is a good release and those who are put off by it.

You'll probably have to use Veers as "Generic Imperial Commander #3849" for the time being, because beyond the basic Troopers I think its gonna be heavily tilted towards using characters. Its kinda like, they took playing with your action figures (as a kid) and then made them smaller and into a game.

 Boss Salvage wrote:
Clone Wars and I'm in

Clone Wars and I'm waaaay out. What would be the point? A second-rate Empire against a joke droid force?

I'm a little concerned about the named character direction too. I'd at least want a cheap generic "Imperial Colonel" and "Rebel Commander" on the radar by now so that people can make it more about the squads, but that's not what FFG are pushing so we'll see I guess. There's little point bringing out all the named Imperial officers as the models will be very samey and none of them really do anything on screen besides Veers, but there's obviously Krennic, you'd expect to see Thrawn (and Pryce? Rukh?). After that there are a few Imperials to scrape from the EU who would have interesting profiles.

Oh, they'll get to the Clone Wars, unfortunately. That being said they've already released a good amount of miniatures for any Star Wars gamer/fan. I just hope they don't cut and run to another portion of the story too soon.

Runewars is playable without named characters, and people have used tie swarms to decent effect in X-wing, so I’m a lot more trusting non-character games of Star Wars will work, but you may have to work a little harder/smarter.

However, I’m not sure I get the character hate for this game (I understand for 40K, herohammer was/is a thing!). It’s not like the WotC skirmish game or the West End version didn’t have these characters available for play - even the original RPG had stats for the Emperor and what game would allow a band of no-name RPG heroes to off the Emperor? Heck, I think Imperial Assault had an Emperor add-on for it as well.

This is Star Wars - it’s always been about the charCTERS AND I don’t think half the people - or more - playing WOULD play if they couldn’t use their favorite movie hero/villain. So long as they’re balanced, why stop them?

One reason I was disappointed that Legion wasn't going to crossover with Imperial Assault was that the property is fundamentally cinematic, and having characterful heroes mixed in through all the nameless troops would really bring that across, I felt. And having only the main characters from the movies, the marquee names, showing up to every battle made the tone of the game seem kind of off, maybe a little silly. That being said, I think you do have to meet a game, work of art, creative whatever on its own terms, at its level of reality, its desired tone, etc. if you really want to engage with it or have a critique of it. This is the level of reality they are going for, it's your favorite characters from the movies leading battles of lesser extras. Which might mean Chewie beats Emperor Palpatine to death with the butt of his crossbow ray gun, but that's the tone of their miniatures game. It's open to new and different outcomes, and maybe the main characters are behaving like they would in a video game and walking across a battlefield to punch each other, while you wouldn't have them do that in a carefully crafted narrative. I guess it's just something you have to take or leave.

Also no Clone Wars. I don't think they will just because too many people wouldn't buy it, people who would buy OT stuff, and financially it's rough to make anything that doesn't appeal to your fanbase widely.

Aww, I really want Clone troopers (not so much interested in droids).

The prequels weren’t THAT bad, go back and really watch the original trilogy. They’re about the same level of campiness.

I'm on team Gimme The Clone Wars Models. I'd love to run an army of Trade Federation Battle Droids.

I'm gonna be a bit of a hipster and say I want to see Disney Sequel Trilogy models. I was ambivalent to TFA and hated TLJ, but damn will the First Order and Kylo Ren look good on the tabletop.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm gonna be a bit of a hipster and say I want to see Disney Sequel Trilogy models. I was ambivalent to TFA and hated TLJ, but damn will the First Order and Kylo Ren look good on the tabletop.

Though the Resistance not so much.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You'll probably have to use Veers as "Generic Imperial Commander #3849" for the time being, because beyond the basic Troopers I think its gonna be heavily tilted towards using characters. Its kinda like, they took playing with your action figures (as a kid) and then made them smaller and into a game.

Cheers I’ll keep an eye out. I don’t begrudge them using the characters, like was said they paid for the license and there’s clearly a market for it, but it’s not for me. I’ll watch it develop, its still young as a game. If they have made it like my games as a kid with the figures then there would be a lot of “pew pew” going from me.

 Riquende wrote:
Clone Wars and I'm waaaay out. What would be the point?

Well, for one thing, it's an actual war.

 Stormonu wrote:
Aww, I really want Clone troopers (not so much interested in droids).

The prequels weren’t THAT bad, go back and really watch the original trilogy. They’re about the same level of campiness.

They're really not. Even as a huge Star Wars fan and someone who actually enjoys watching them from time to time, I'm happy to admit that the prequels are pretty, but are awful movies.


Having said that, Clone Wars would absolutely make for a more interesting wargame than the Rebellion era. Yes, the original battle droids are a little useless, but they make up for it with weight of numbers and by bringing along their bigger and scarier friends. And Clone Troopers are just cool. They're like Storm Troopers, but with the ability to aim...

Me and my bud played a legion game recently, he used veers as a generic commander and i used luke because that was the only commander i owned at the time. You can see luke as a random jedi and that this fight takes place before rouge one, my leader was a jedi that survived up to this point and his commander was sent to find out if there was a rebel base. What he found was a jedi with some rebel troopers! Game was great, i lost horribly on points but using my snow speeder to buzz his general and light the bastard up as he was trying to capture a "victory" location was great. My jedi also charged and killed 4 troopers in combat, but his at-st is something else to fight. It doesn't feel OP but it feels properly tough and nasty.

So yeah you can play the game with limited characters. Now that leia is an option you could just use a custom random "commander" as her. I hope they do release some generic characters at some point, but i doubt they will. It will be up to us to do it for them.

 insaniak wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Aww, I really want Clone troopers (not so much interested in droids).

The prequels weren’t THAT bad, go back and really watch the original trilogy. They’re about the same level of campiness.

They're really not. Even as a huge Star Wars fan and someone who actually enjoys watching them from time to time, I'm happy to admit that the prequels are pretty, but are awful movies.

I'm of the opinion that the prequels are deeply flawed movies that have moments of absolute brilliance and moments that are borderline unwatchable. But for me, the value in the Star Wars property has never been the movies themselves, but the games that come out of them. Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba are barely in ANH, didn't have even have names, but some of my fondest memories of the Star Wars CCG was playing them in the Cantina and spouting off "We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems."

I think the prequels had a lot of material there, and to me, playing in Theed and roaming Mustafar in Star Wars Galaxies is as important a Star Wars memory as anything from the original trilogy. And unlike the original trilogy, the prequels weren't just three movies. It was technically four movies, and about 8 seasons of television (some of which was the absolute pinnacle of Star Wars canon). So say what you want about the quality of the prequels as individual movies, they were Star Wars to me - and some of the best Star Wars that ever was.

The new movies aren't Star Wars. I don't know what they are, but they aren't Star Wars.

Having said that, Clone Wars would absolutely make for a more interesting wargame than the Rebellion era. Yes, the original battle droids are a little useless, but they make up for it with weight of numbers and by bringing along their bigger and scarier friends. And Clone Troopers are just cool. They're like Storm Troopers, but with the ability to aim...

Clone troopers also had different paint schemes, different armor styles, different names (Captain Cody, Fives), and would've made the hobby element far, far more interesting than Stormtroopers. Not to mention, it makes sense for the Jedi and Clone Troopers to be different armies that can fight against each other.

It really frustrates me that FFG is making the wrong Star Wars miniature game. Their approach with Legion would be perfect for Clone Wars, while a more hero based skirmish game (like expanding Imperial Assault beyond the board) would've been more appropriate for the OT.

I've been on the fence for a while about this game. Not a massive fan of the idea of lots of pitched battles with the rebels, I've seen them more as an operative guerilla warfare terrorists style with only the occasional pitched battle where they are forced into a corner. But the Royal guard look really cool and would love to do a force of them. How feasible would that be?

Just Royal Guard can't be done as they are Special Forces and all armies need a number of regular Corps units such as basic stormtroopers or snowtroopers.

There's also a maximum amount of Special Forces you can take, but the online rules reference appears to not include this information at the moment.

Ah ok, I'll still be on the fence with this one then!

 Riquende wrote:

There's also a maximum amount of Special Forces you can take, but the online rules reference appears to not include this information at the moment.

For whatever reason, its under "Rank" instead of being in the army building section. You can have up to 3 units of Guard, though the Emperor's card seems to allow you take a 4th.

From the looks of it, you can take 3 squads of barebones Stormtroopers, 4 maxed out units of Royal Guard and the Emperor under 800 points. Not sure if it would be good, but it sounds fun.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
Clone Wars and I'm waaaay out. What would be the point?

Well, for one thing, it's an actual war.

SNAP!

Personally I just prefer the pre-Episode IV universe (Clone Wars the series being the standout) and maybe even pre-Episode I (Knights of the Old Republic in the house). Some of that's the scale of the conflict compacting from IV on, a lot of that is the decreasing number of Jedis, and even more of that is the paucity of Sith. I want lots of good and bad space wizards, preferably embroiled in a massive galactic war waged across multiple fronts

I've previously just spitballed Clone Wars stuff when talking at the LGS, so I'm excited to hear a) other people want it to and b) it might actually be a thing

- Salvage